Kaladesh -or- When Kiran met Pia

[rufus]

With this seemingly being the last day before the final and complete spoiler, did you guys see Legacy relevent cards which you would like to test?

People have mentioned a bunch of cards already. Some others that have potential..

Wispweaver Angel - combo piece
Torrential Gearhulk - combo piece
Morbid Curiosity - combo engine
Dubious Challenge - combo card
Ovalchase Daredevil - squee alternative
Bomat Courier - burn/sligh card.
Panharmonicon - combo piece
Combustible gearhulk - big red

[joven]

I don't get why people are raving over Madcap Experiment. Shape Anew already exists.

4+4 = 8 ?
Also, Madcap Experiment doesn't need an artifact in the first place, which you would need to get from a nonartifact card.
Shape Anew is somewhat problematic, you need some Clue- or Thopter generators or similar.
Madcap Experiment + Platinum Emperion could be interesting against some decks without Swords to Plowshares (e.g. Elves).

[Captain Hammer]

Emperion is a one-card combo, but I really have my doubts about whether a 4 mana 8/8 without evasion or protection is playable. I mean, we don't see Kalonian Hydra tearing up the tables, do we?

Casting costs matter.

If Kalonian Hydra costed 2GG instead of 3GG, it would see a ton of play.

If Madcap Experiment costed 3RR instead of 2RR, no one would be talking about it right now

And if Tarmogoyf/Dark Confidant/Young Pyromancer/Stoneforge Mystic/Snapcaster Mage costed 2X instead of 1X, none of them would have found their way into any eternal decks.

[Lemnear]

No - that's not it - since they are both random in that they reveal cards until you reveal an artifact. It's just with emprium its a 1 card combo or a 2 card combo using cheap cards while shape anew requires you to always be a two card combo usually requiring you to play cards that produce artifact or become artifacts.

Madcap is NOT random if you just run ONE type of Artifact in your deck. With that being said. I don't think P.E. is the card we should look at. I like Sphinx of the Steel Wind much more

[MaximumC]

Madcap is NOT random if you just run ONE type of Artifact in your deck. With that being said. I don't think P.E. is the card we should look at. I like Sphinx of the Steel Wind much more

Me too. I look at the classic "Big Three" Tinker targets:

1. Blightsteel Collossus (for winning NOW)
2. Sphinx of the Steel Wind (for crushing aggro decks)
3. Inkwell Levithan (for crushing control decks)

Casting costs matter.

If Kalonian Hydra costed 2GG instead of 3GG, it would see a ton of play.

If Madcap Experiment costed 3RR instead of 2RR, no one would be talking about it right now

And if Tarmogoyf/Dark Confidant/Young Pyromancer/Stoneforge Mystic/Snapcaster Mage costed 2X instead of 1X, none of them would have found their way into any eternal decks.

Fair enough. Casting cost does matter. Even so, would this see play:

3B Amazaballs Golem
8/8
If this creature is removed from play immediately upon its entering the battlefield, you lose the game.
Your life total cannot change.

[Captain Hammer]

Madcap is NOT random if you just run ONE type of Artifact in your deck. With that being said. I don't think P.E. is the card we should look at. I like Sphinx of the Steel Wind much more

I like Sphinx, but I'm actually more partial to...
4 Combustible Gearhulk
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Blightsteel Colossus

...in a Big Red inspired configuration myself.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...p-Sneak-Attack

[Cire]

Madcap is NOT random if you just run ONE type of Artifact in your deck. With that being said. I don't think P.E. is the card we should look at. I like Sphinx of the Steel Wind much more

Neither is Shape Anew if you only run one artifact in your deck.

That said, i've been arguing for Blightsteel Collossus, Sphinx of the Steel Wind, Inkwell Levithan split in the Madcap tinker thread. Still don't think its better than just running S&T, etc.

3B Amazaballs Golem
8/8
If this creature is removed from play immediately upon its entering the battlefield, you lose the game.
Your life total cannot change.

Why would you lose the game. . . it's not platinum angel

. . . it's more like this:

3R Amazaballs Golem
Artifact - Creature
Your life total cannot change (a.k.a. you can't cast FOW or use fetches; plus is that you can't take damage or lose life. Poison still kills you, and decking still makes you lose.)
You can't play any other artifacts in your deck
8/8

[MaximumC]

Neither is Shape Anew if you only run one artifact in your deck.

That said, i've been arguing for Blightsteel Collossus, Sphinx of the Steel Wind, Inkwell Levithan split in the Madcap tinker thread. Still don't think its better than just running S&T, etc.



Why would you lose the game. . . it's not platinum angel

. . . it's more like this:

3R Amazaballs Golem
Artifact - Creature
Your life total cannot change (a.k.a. you can't cast FOW or use fetches; plus is that you can't take damage or lose life. Poison still kills you, and decking still makes you lose.)
You can't play any other artifacts in your deck
8/8

Sorry what I meant was flashing in a containment priest makes you lose the game

[(nameless one)]

It's a question of how badly you want to warp your deck.

Shape Anew requires that you run cards whose only purpose in life is to create artifact tokens. Those are, by and large, not great cards.

Madcap requires that you run cards that give you protection from Red or give you spells Lifelink or let you stop damage from a Sorcery. That's a waaaaay less deck-warping requirement.

EDIT: And, yes, Emperion is a one-card combo, but I really have my doubts about whether a 4 mana 8/8 without evasion or protection is playable. I mean, we don't see Kalonian Hydra tearing up the tables, do we?

You can run Mishra's Factory and Shape Anew it to Blightsteel Colossus

[Captain Hammer]

You can run Mishra's Factory and Shape Anew it to Blightsteel Colossus

That costs 5 mana, requires a 2 card combo, and requires you to sacrifice your factory in order to pull off. Shape Anew getting FoWed causes you a huge tempo loss due to the required sacrifice of your Mishra's Factory.

Shape Anew is very similar to
Polymorph
Proteus Staff

And none of those three are anywhere near as good as Madcap Experiment.

Despite this, I've seen Polymorph + Proteus Staff decks put up top 8s at LGS's every now and then. Madcap being signficantly superior (costing one less mana, not being a two card combo) makes it worth looking at.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Neither is Shape Anew if you only run one artifact in your deck.

That said, i've been arguing for Blightsteel Collossus, Sphinx of the Steel Wind, Inkwell Levithan split in the Madcap tinker thread. Still don't think its better than just running S&T, etc.



Why would you lose the game. . . it's not platinum angel

. . . it's more like this:

3R Amazaballs Golem
Artifact - Creature
Your life total cannot change (a.k.a. you can't cast FOW or use fetches; plus is that you can't take damage or lose life. Poison still kills you, and decking still makes you lose.)
You can't play any other artifacts in your deck
8/8

Nitpick: You have to play 1-2 dead cards in your deck and if you draw them this is also a dead card.

[rufus]

That costs 5 mana, requires a 2 card combo, and requires you to sacrifice your factory in order to pull off. Shape Anew getting FoWed causes you a huge tempo loss due to the required sacrifice of your Mishra's Factory. ...

Yeah, there are better cards to combine with Shape Anew like Thraben Inspector or Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast. IMO the issue with Madcap Experiment (and Shape Anew) as a combo play is really that they haven't printed the artifact equivalent of Griselbrand yet. (Well, Gleemax but that's not competition legal.)

[ReAnimator]

...yeah, and? Restoration is also a good card. They both do a Broken Thing. This version is even sexier because it's easier to cast.

Seriously? Like a card that has been around for 20 years and has seen literal zero play, and you think that now that the casting cost has gone from 2UU to 3W that it's playable and broken, and the burden of proof is on ME? GTFO

[apple713]

Seriously? Like a card that has been around for 20 years and has seen literal zero play, and you think that now that the casting cost has gone from 2UU to 3W that it's playable and broken, and the burden of proof is on ME? GTFO

First of all, the card isnt broken. It has potential but has nit realized that potential yet. Show and tell was a 1$ rare until cards like emrakul and griselbrand were printed. Even then show and tell alone was not enough. The deck became a deck mainly bevause it had both, show and tell and sneak attack so that it could consistently do broken things with the creatures.

Now agrivan restoration never saw play for a few reasons. It never had an artifact worth devoting a strategy to and it never had a counter part like sneak attack to increase consistency. Now it has the counterpart with the white card but i still dont think there is an artifact good enough for these cards to take off. When an artifact as good as emrakul / griselbrand is printed then there is a chance these cards could form a deck. Until then it will always be inferior to show and tell decks.

Also of you are targeting creatures you might as well play reanimator.

[Finn]

Even Trash for Treasure is not nearly good enough when Goblin Welder exists. Refurbish is rubbish. Four mana may as well be 4 million.

[bruizar]

First of all, the card isnt broken. It has potential but has nit realized that potential yet. Show and tell was a 1$ rare until cards like emrakul and griselbrand were printed. Even then show and tell alone was not enough. The deck became a deck mainly bevause it had both, show and tell and sneak attack so that it could consistently do broken things with the creatures.

Now agrivan restoration never saw play for a few reasons. It never had an artifact worth devoting a strategy to and it never had a counter part like sneak attack to increase consistency. Now it has the counterpart with the white card but i still dont think there is an artifact good enough for these cards to take off. When an artifact as good as emrakul / griselbrand is printed then there is a chance these cards could form a deck. Until then it will always be inferior to show and tell decks.

Also of you are targeting creatures you might as well play reanimator.

Argivisn restoration pales next to replenish

[T-101]

Restoration is arguably hardest to cast at 3W because it requires white mana. I assume a deck doing that is probably running cantrips and perhaps FoW.

Anywho, not a lot in Kaladesh for Legacy.

The two most intriguing are Aetherwork Marvel, and the storm artifact for gaining life.

The one mana disenchant is probably good somewhere.

The Annul that hits Eldrazi is a maybe if there's Eldrazi in the meta.

After that, maybe Madcap? It's gotta be able to stop Swords and power through counter magic, but it could get there... Maybe... Not likely.

Most of the financial talk has been centered on the Masterpieces tanking the value of the other cards, so it wouldn't be very costly to pick up a bunch of the maybes. No rush though, as I don't think anything will be tier 1 must-have.

[bruizar]

Thus is what i bought, all foil. Still missing some cards. Many i bought because i thought they were too cheap
3x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship (Kaladesh)
4x Toolcraft Exemplar
4x Paradoxical Outcome
4x Bomat Courier
4x Fleetwheel Cruiser
4x Ghirapur Orrery
4x Smuggler's Copter
4x Madcap Experiment
4x Animation Module
3x Inventors' Fair
4x Ovalchase Daredevil
4x Inventor's Goggles
1x Lotus Petal invention

Toolcraft Exemplar works great with skyship btw. Bought the vehicles because i think we probably underestimate them but didnt know which one will spike. Batterskull / living weapon is most similar to vehicle.

[Barook]

Thus is what i bought, all foil. Still missing some cards. Many i bought because i thought they were too cheap
3x Skysovereign, Consul Flagship (Kaladesh)
4x Toolcraft Exemplar
4x Paradoxical Outcome
4x Bomat Courier
4x Fleetwheel Cruiser
4x Ghirapur Orrery
4x Smuggler's Copter
4x Madcap Experiment
4x Animation Module
3x Inventors' Fair
4x Ovalchase Daredevil
4x Inventor's Goggles
1x Lotus Petal invention

Toolcraft Exemplar works great with skyship btw. Bought the vehicles because i think we probably underestimate them but didnt know which one will spike. Batterskull / living weapon is most similar to vehicle.

Batterskull is good mainly due to its enabler, SFM.

Vehicles are probably good enough for Standard and maybe Modern if all planets align, but I don't think we've seen Eternal material yet. The Lootcopter is pretty close, but I'm not convinced that it's going to find a home. There's also the instant speed Terminus angle that makes vehicles much worse than equipment.

[HdH_Cthulhu]

Well now with the trend that they make busted D&T creatures one can assume they print the vehicle SFM.