Originally Posted by Molz7
Do you know if they've posted the results yet? I couldn't find them on mtgtop8 or tcdecks
Hei guys
Today i won the 1k Tournament with my deathblade list.
37 player and 6 rounds with top 8.
I postet my list 2 days ago.
Match ups..i wont go that deep into the games, just note the important points.
2:0 MUD Post
2:1 Belcher
1:2 eldrazi( g1 i won with batterskul, and g2 i played horrible and deserve to lose..not force a chalice is just bad normaly, g3 i drawet really bad..)
2:1 ANT
1:2 Eldrazi( won again g1 and g2 i really lost to flooded and after shuffling 2 ts away i drawet them again, g3 horrible hand on 6 but had to keep)
2:1 GW Maverick (g2 lost to not draw a land after i had 2 trop..g3 Jace wins here with card advange)
Top 8 with 4:2 and last @ standing..
2:0 Mono Red Sneak attack (he missplayed horrible at g2 with his 6/6 first strike golem *not sure on the name* and i'm also on 6 but i played batterskull and had a contaiment prieston my side, he didn't notide that he's on six life.. so i blocked with batterskull and just equip for the win;)
2:1 UR Delver
G1 he won after alot of turns.. g2 I win with just 1 wasteland
G3 wasteland wins here again and he is stuck on 2 islands.
Finale!:
2:1 Lands
G1 i win with double force and shaman
G2 he does what lands does
G3 after a really really long game i can play a jace even he had punishing fire..with this i can fix the game and play everything in the next few turns..he never found his loam..also i exiled all lands in his gy with double shaman early.
So gg guys
Greets Pascal
Where is this list? The only list I can see that you've posted recently is this one from over two weeks ago.
mise 'miz v alter. of might as well (1997) 1: to win when you don't deserve to 2: to top-deck the "tings" you need 3: to be rewarded by an opponent's bad luck 4: to coin a phrase that spreads through the tournament scene like wildfire 5: to fling a monkey 6: to split firewood using a sharp instrument 7: To burn
@misersoneof
Yes its this list - 1 snapcaster -2 ponder + 1 true name + 2 decay.. sb -2 decay +1 diabolic edict + 1 canonist
Greets
Hi! I'm new to the deck and I need some insight for some cards.
Daze and FoW: When to sideboard them out? I know that there are lots of play/draw considerations with them but I can't find good articles/spreadsheets on how to use them
Meddling mage: I see that most lists play 2 meddling mage in the sideboard. Where do I sideboard them in, and what do I usually want to name?
Thanks
The questions you're asking are really broad and more than anything boil down to experience frankly. Thus you’re unlikely to find the explicit answers you’re looking for.Hi! I'm new to the deck and I need some insight for some cards.
Daze and FoW: When to sideboard them out? I know that there are lots of play/draw considerations with them but I can't find good articles/spreadsheets on how to use them
Meddling mage: I see that most lists play 2 meddling mage in the sideboard. Where do I sideboard them in, and what do I usually want to name?
Thanks
Generally speaking I board out FoW against other fair decks where I anticipate the match going long. Remember FoW is card disadvantage, repeatedly 2-1’ing yourself over the course of a long game is undesireable.
I don’t know enough about daze to add anything of value.
For meddling mage my most frequent namings are show and tell/sneak attack/natural order. In general his sweetspot is against combo decks with few ways to deal with permanent based hate. But more often than not it just depends what I’m doing on board or the game plan I’m trying to execute. There are no hard/fast rules here. I would actually recommend taking them out of the time being until you gain more experience with the deck and understand what you want to name.
I'm on a Stifle plan, but I tend to keep 2+ Forces around anyway. I left one in against D&T the other day and it actually nip'd a crucial spell unexpectedly (a reset skull I think?) But Force is one of the only things that kills TNNs and equips; so I find that I side it out a lot less than expected. Siding some out is good as doing that to yourself multiple times is a big deal, but leaving some in can be helpful. For similar reasons, I tended to keep in some number of Daze, but I only ever ran 3 daze in non-delver decks as it seemed to feel good.
Normally Delver advice is drop dazes (or most of them) on the Draw, drop Forces (or most of them) on the play. Start with that and adjust to taste. I think you'd be good to just google it a bit from there to figure out the full line of reasoning rather than me typing a bunch of fairly uninteresting paragraphs that have been typed many times before, and probably better :)
EDIT: It's worth noting that how many of what you leave in is "wrong" by tradition at times, which is what makes it correct at times. Being able to meta-game your opponent because they sideboarded for you is a big deal. This got me one time against miracles some years back where I jammed an absolutely crucial.. Thopter Foundry? (I was on some kind of Tezz build.) I expected he had boarded out forces, so I forced his Pierce, felt pretty good. Then he forced my force and I literally just lost on T2 or so because I over-committed on a spell based on expecting him to have boarded forces out.
Generally Meddling Mage comes in against two classes of deck: Combo decks that have critical components (most of them) and engine decks. What you name depends on the known information in the game (your hand, their hand, board state, available mana, etc). It is not a trivial card. Here is a very short, very not complete list of targets to name:
Sneak and Show: Show and Tell, Sneak Attack (putting it in off of Show and Tell against the Omni decks can allow you to lock out cunning wish or Emrakul)
ANT: Infernal Tutor, LED, or a known wincon (be careful naming win cons in post board games as they typically have removal and multiple different win cons).
Elves: NO, Glimpse (which one depends on which one your hand interacts with better), GSZ, abrupt decay.
Dredge: Dread Return
Lands: Punishing Fire then Life from the Loam (you often want to turn off removal before attacking the engine if the state game allows)
Aluren: Cavern Harpy, Aluren
Food Chain: Food Chain, Walking Ballista
As you play more you will also find that sometime you bring them in against control decks to change up the game strategy. I realize this is not a hugely informative post, but the question is broad. Hopefully this helps you think about the card.
Anyone have any thoughts on the list I'm tuning?
Cropped the sideboard out a bit mostly because I couldnt get it to fit; and it's far from being finalized.
In paper I'm +1 TNN, -1 Leovold as TNN is absurg on MTGO.
Any other tweaks to suggest - for those with more seat time :)
Coming from a D&T and Br Reanimator background, I am just about finishing my pool of cards to be playing Deathblade (only forces away at this stage).
I was thinking about something along these lines:
4x Swords to Plowshares
4x Brainstorm
4x Stifle
4x Thoughtseize
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Daze
3x Stoneforge Mystic
1x Umezawa's Jitte
2x True-Name Nemesis
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4x Force of Will
1x Batterskull
1x Gurmag Angler
4x Wasteland
4x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
2x Underground Sea
2x Tundra
1x Scrubland
1x Bayou
2x Island
1x Plains
1x Swamp
1x Karakas
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Pithing Needle
1x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Fatal Push
1x Flusterstorm
1x Meddling Mage
1x Containment Priest
1x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Supreme Verdict
But having no real experience with the deck I figured I would come here looking for advice on where/how to start building the deck. I am not sure of the Pros/Cons of choosing Deathblade over Stoneblade (or Blade Control), but I figure if I'm going to splash black I might as well enjoy Deathrite Shaman.
"Ach! Hans, run! It's the Lhurgoat!"
Unfortunately, a lot of the players on this thread are from the esper deathblade variant. Bant being the new kid on the block kinda got rolled in with us recently, so at least personally I’m not in the best position to evaluate your deck. That being said -1 Leovold +1TNN is a good call imo as leovold can be tough to cast. That being said the rest of your deck looks pretty standard compared to what everyone else is running.
This deck I can address. As far as I can really tell there are 5 blade variants running around, here’s quick rundown of each. UW stoneblade really enjoys a simple manabase. Without deathrites or black it tends to run a more reactive gameplan, lots of counterspells. Esper stoneblade complicates the manabase by adding black, but it gains proactive hate cards like thoughtseize and other powerful cards found in black. Esper deathblade cuts some of the control from esper stoneblade in order to leverage the power of deathrite shaman. Deathrite shaman is a powerhouse on his own and unlocks the ability to slam down turn two TNNs or leovolds. Bant deathblade feels like more of a tempo variant of stoneblade. It goes all in on a 4 color manase with 8 mana dorks to consistently power out turn 2 TNNs or leovolds. It’s less controlling as a result. UWR is another tempo variant of stoneblade but it runs red for bolts/fireblasts.
So let’s start with the manabase, by my count 22 lands. I do appreciate the 4 basics, they’ve definitely got me out from under a lot of blood moons. That being said, I think you’ll run into color problems. You have too many lands that don’t tap for blue. 4 Wasteland seems pretty excessive and bayou probably should be a tropical island. I’d wager you end up wanting another fetch in there, but I’m not sure what to cut.
-1 Wasteland
-1 Bayou
+1 Tropical
+1 Underground Sea
I’m not convinced stifle has a place in this deck. Stifle seems more like a tempo play, and frankly we are just not a tempo deck. If you cut the stifles I’d probably go something like +2 spell pierce and +2 collective brutality. I like collective brutality a lot since it shores up both creature and combo matchups.
4 thoughtseize is probably excessive. I found 3 to be a good number since it can be a pretty miserable late game draw. Put another TNN in its place. In any case I’d HIGHLY recommend 3 TNNs.
Daze is another card I’m not sure what to do with. I’ve gotten conflicting reports that its good, but I still don’t think it has a home in our deck. As such I’ll leave it to you to decide what you want to do here. Assuming you do cut it I’d run +1 snapcaster mage, +2 ponder, and +1 leovold.
Regarding your sideboard, the only thing I have objection to is karakas. From experience karakas has felt pretty weak to me. Karakas vs a griselbrand feels really bad. Karakas does work vs marit lage, but generally speaking those decks will just wasteland your karakas and make another marit lage. So karakas is either a non-answer or a bandage on a larger problem. Your time is probably better spent preventing those cards from ever hitting the field. As such I’d probably add another flusterstorm.
Thanks a lot for the feedback. Where I play we don't have a very large Legacy metagame, Storm is practically a myth (aka, no one plays it). In our meta it's all about delvers, eldrazi and reanimator, with some lands, D&T and some blue based control decks (blade, shardless). It's a pretty fair meta, so I wanted to take full advantage of the mana denial plan that Wasteland + Stifle provide, paired with Daze it can become really hard to overcome. Maybe it's my mind that can't quit mana screwing people (coming from D&T) and not allowing them to play magic. Perhaps that is wrong. I don't know where to go with the deck to be honest, too many directions...
In my manabase I removed the 4 basics and added 2 Flats and 1 Tundra, I went down to 21 cause it felt too floody and basics were punishing. I am running Bayou cause I don't have a trop, I do have a Savannah but it feels worse. I also don't have a 3rd seas.
Perhaps I should be playing -4 Daze -4 Stifle +2 Snapcaster Mage, +2 Baleful Strix, +2 Ponder +2 Counterspell? I don't know, I feel like I enjoy more playing tempo variants of decks than full-on control. But I guess this deck is more control-y than tempo.
From the board I replaced Karakas with a Diabolic Edict to have an out vs Marit Lage.
"Ach! Hans, run! It's the Lhurgoat!"
I definitely would not advise pulling the basics out. I understand the dual land availability issue, but no basics puts you in an awkward place. The stoneblade decks not running basics are generally 4 color, adding green for noble hierarch or AD typically. They trade in the stability of basics for cards in green. Your blade deck is really 3.5c, with a single green source for DRS activations. But you have no basics, so you open yourself to all the problems of no basics(blood moons/wastelands) without also getting to leverage the power of green. At least IMO you get put in an awkward spot.
I’d suggest only adding +1 counterspell, it’s a good catchall but can be kinda clunky. Make the 2nd counterspell another TNN. You really should be running 3, DRS into a T2 TNN is really good.
Part of the beauty of stoneblade is that it’s configurable to almost any direction you want to go. This particular direction is probably more controlling than tempo. If you want to try tempo, try bant deathblade or even UWR stoneblade.
Stoneblade tends to do better for reasons I don't think anyone understands (haha), it's probably because basically DRS is instead Ponder, increasing consistency and reducing blowouts? Also, when this was always in actual 4-colors (where as now it's usually a 1x Trop for reanimator and whatnot), it was very prone to just shitting on itself.
Getting to it; I see you have only 10 threats (I think?). [Note: you'll get more/better feedback if you write your decklist is a more comprehensible style (which is usually Dudes in a block, non-creature non-land permanents in a block, sorceries/instants in a block, lands in a block) as then we can very quickly see how it looks compared to other lists (kinda like a barcode?)] You're also running a *full* tempo package without Delver and with Jace; this is guaranteed to be a bad plan in the long run.
Bant can run Daze + Jace effectively because they run 8 mana dudes, so they're often flooding anyway. Daze when you have 4 mana guys can be fine but usually there will be a wasteland fired somewhere, a daze casted or your DRS killed, and you'll find Jace waiting a long time to come down.
IMO; start by dropping 4 Daze, addnig 2-3 Lingering Souls, then filling in the other cards you mentioned (Strix/Ponder/etc.) Souls are great against almost every deck out there as a clock, disruption for planeswalkers, discard fodder, etc..
Same list as last week.
Lands-21
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
3 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
2 Wasteland
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
Creatures-13
4 Deathrite Shaman
3 True-Name Nemesis
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
Spells: 23
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
3 Collective Brutality
3 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
Artifacts: 2
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
Planeswalkers: 2
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Sideboard:
1 Disenchant
1 Containment Priest
2 Flusterstorm
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Engineered Plague
1 Pithing Needle
1 Meddling Mage
1 Invasive Surgery
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Fatal Push
Fairly disappointing week, went 1-2, common thread seemed to be that my deck was threat light.
Match 1: Eldrazi(2-0 Win)
Game 1: Opponent takes a mulligan. I’m looking at 2 wastelands, a fetchland, FoW, brainstorm and some other stuff. I keep it hoping he’s playing a lot of nonbasics. Eye of ugin T1 tells me I made a lucky call in the dark. Double wastelands slow him down immensely. Eventually TNN+Jitte get there.
Game 2:
Sideboard:
-3 Thoughtseize
-1 Leovold
-1 Vendilion Clique
+2 Fatal Push
+1 Toxic Deluge
+1 Disenchant
+1 Meddling Mage
Game 2: Get a hand of double TNNs, SFM, a collective brutality, and some fetchlands. Opponent starts off with Chalice on 1, which is normally backbreaking, but given my hand I was okay with it. Was able to hold him off with double TNNs, and eventually tutored up batterskull and glued it to a TNN for the win.
Match 2: UWR Stoneblade(0-2 Loss)
Game 1: Opponent was Mitchell Nguyen, placed 14th at Vegas on UWR stoneblade, and he ran the same thing tonight. Game 1 was frustrating, he landed a T2 SFM into batterskull and I essentially failed to find any relevant answers over the next 4 turns despite a brainstorm and a ponder.
Game 2:
Sideboard:
-3 Thoughtseize
-1 FoW
-1 Counterspell
+2 Fatal Push
+1 Zealous Persecution
+1 Engineered Plague
+1 Toxic Deluge
+1 Disenchant
Game durdled for a while. I tried to land at T3 TNN, he counters it and lands his own. I play engineered plague on merfolk to deal with his TNN, but I also lock myself out of my own TNNs. I land a jace next turn and brainstorm for a while. Finding the occasional SFM and both TNNs, but I’m unable to cast them. He eventually pyroblasts the jace and kills me with a SFM. The big mistake was definitely playing engineered plague. Put it in just in case his TNNs got out of hand, but it definitely ended up hurting me more.
Match 3: BUG Delver(0-2 Loss)
Game 1: I thankfully have enough fetches to play around his wastelands, even manage to get around his stifles too. Unfortunately he lands a delver which pings me down to 10 some odd life before I find a killspell to deal with it. I swords the delver and he follows up with a tombstalker to seal the deal.
Game 2:
-3 Thoughtseize
-1 Vendilion Clique
-1 Leovold
-1 FoW
+2 Fatal Push
+1 Zealous Persecution
+1 Engineered Plague
+1 Toxic Deluge
Pretty frustrating game a well. Opening hand is an island, some fetches, and a pile of killspells. Snap keep. We trade resources for a while, I deal with all his critters, but I simply can’t find a threat. Mid game I flood out, drawing 4 lands in a row and things slide out of control. I eventually find a TNN but it’s way too late, and he kills me the next turn. After the game we did a count, and I ended up killing 7 of his creatures. But without landing a creature of my own i just couldn’t put a clock on him. Supremely frustrating.
I’ll give this a spin for another week or two, but i’m already thinking of changes I want to make. Probably substitute out Vendilion Clique for another snapcaster mage. I think I do want SFM #4, and maybe a SoFI maindeck as well. Gurmag Angler might even work his way in somewhere.
The gf is away so I got an extra day of legacy! Went to a different local shop called spellhold games, stayed up later than I’d like but the turnout was great, 28 people for a weekly. My normal shop has 8-10.
List stayed the same as yesterday’s. Went 2-1-1.
Match 1: Topless Miracles(2-0 Win)
Game 1: He fetches basic island, and I more or less guess he’s on topless right away. I lead off with T1 Deathrite into a T2 clique. He cantrips a bunch but doesn’t really do anything. He attempts to flash in a clique of his own, and we get into a counter war over it, which I win. Dealing 5 damage a turn is a fast enough clock and he folds.
Game 2:
-4 Swords to Plowshares
-1 Deathrite Shaman
-1 Spell Pierce
+2 Flusterstorm
+1 Meddling Mage
+1 Invasive Surgery
+2 Surgical Extraction
Game 2 is much the same. I open with TNN, brainstorm, 2 thoughtseize, FoW, and some lands. He mulligans, T1 thoughtseize reveals 2 ponders, FoW, and blood moon. I take a Ponder. Next turn I take the blood moon. And the following turn I jam through a TNN with FoW backup. After this it’s pretty much a repeat of the previous game. TNN beats him down and he just spins his wheels. On his final turn he goes through around 3 cantrips digging for the terminus which he never finds. TNN gets in for lethal.
Match 2: DnT(0-2 Loss)
Game 1: Got something like double Collective Brutality and some fetches. Opponent just drops a T2 Thalia and starts porting me down making brutality really awkward. I kind of fend him off, but my deck never really manages to get out from under the ports and I end up losing.
Game 2:
-3 Thoughtseize
-1 Counterspell
-1 Jace
-1 FoW
-1 Vendilion Clique
+1 Engineered Explosives
+1 Toxic Deluge
+1 Zealous Persecution
+1 Engineered Plague
+1 Pithing Needle
+2 Fatal Push
Kinda the same story as game 1. I end up keeping a 1 land hand with ponder. I fetch an island, ponder and see a swamp, spell pierce, and jitte. I end up keeping the cards for the basic swamp, but it slows me down dramatically. End up stuck off white for a long time and can’t cast STP, while Engineered Plague ends up rotting in hand thanks to thalia. Probably a greedy keep not drastically helped by a leadoff ponder with a basic land I wanted, but no way to shuffle away the other two.
Match 3: Burn(2-1 Win)
Game 1: Not knowing what I’m playing against I lead off with Underground Sea into thoughtseize and see its burn. My hand had a TNN, stoneforge, and I think a FoW. Stoneforge gets bolted and I can’t find more countermagic. Burn does burn things and takes me down to 0 life.
Game 2:
-3 Thoughtseize
-1 Vendilion Clique
-1 FoW
-1 Jace
+2 Flusterstorm
+1 Invasive Surgery
+2 Fatal Push
+1 Meddling Mage
Open with some countermagic, collective brutality and TNN. TNN manages to hold off the ground game while the countermagic deals with burn spells. Brutality to kill a critter and drain/gain tossing away extra land from goblin guide is brutal for burn. Eventually I clear the board and TNN punches through for the win.
Game 3:
Much the same story. Two TNNs clog up the ground game and 2 collective brutalities buy me the time to seal it up. Jace gets resolved and I continuously bounce his eidolon so I can keep brainstorming into my deck. End up winning at 1 life left.
Match 4: Grixis Delver (ID)
It was getting late so we intentionally drew. Played two games for fun. Don’t really remember much of it. Game 1 he just tempos me out. Game 2 I drag him into the late game and beat him with card quality. Collective brutality drain/gain keeps me out of lightning bolt range giving me enough time for TNN to close it out.
Deck felt much better today. Collective brutality still feels great, although its way worse against Dnt than I thought. Maybe got a bit unlucky not getting fatal pushes/STPs to make brutality more viable, but generally felt bad watching those rot in hand. Against topless it felt like an overpriced thoughtseize which was fine. Against burn/grixis it was an all-star flex card and probably outright won me the burn matchup.
Last edited by First_Revenge; 07-07-2017 at 02:14 PM.
D&T is probably one of the worst MUs for Brutality, just because it only has one good mode, and that mode doesn't hit Crusader or mom-protected dudes; which is a sad.
Happy 4th of july! Went 2-0-1 this week, ran the same list and I’m liking it so far.
Match 1: Aeon Bridge(2-0 Win)
Game 1: Beforehand I had played a few warmups with this guy, probably the only reason I ended up winning since I had no idea how the deck functioned. In a nutshell it’s a show and tell deck that tries to cheat emrakul into play. It has a backup plan of mosswort bridge to tuck an emrakul and phyrexian dreadnought to activate the bridge. Also plays stifles to make a T2 dreadnought.
Game 1 it ends on T2 when he attempts to resolve SnT off of lotus petal, island and tropical island. We get into a counter war and I win it. Next turn I follow up with a wasteland and stick leovold. He can’t cantrip anymore and he’s at least 2 lands off abrupt decay. SFM next turn ends it shortly thereafter.
Game 2:
-3 TNN
-4 Swords to Plowshares
+1 Meddling Mage
+2 Flusterstorm
+2 Surgical Extraction
+1 Containment Priest
+1 Invasive Surgery
I open the game with a ton of counter magic. He opens with a mosswort tucking an emrakul. I thoughtseize and take his SnT, and cast surgical extraction to remove the rest of them. His only out is to resolve dreadnought to bring emrakul back in. He doesn’t find a dreadnought in time, and SFM+Batterskull closes out the game.
Match 2: BUG Delver(2-0 Win)
Game 1: Probably one of the most miserable games of magic I’ve played in a while. For about 8-9 turns I drew nothing but discard spells/lands, and my opponent drew nothing but lands/counterspells. The game lasted way longer than it should have after I walked a TNN into a FoW that I knew about. Eventually he finds a TNN and starts beating me down. I find TNN+SFM and glue a jitte to it, my threat outraces his. He tries to resolve a Tombstalker to outclock me, but I STP it and he scoops.
Game 2:
-3 Thoughtseize
-1 FoW
-1 Spell Pierce
+1 Zealous Persecution
+1 Toxic Deluge
+2 Fatal Push
+1 Engineered Explosives
Kind of a blur, I keep basic plains, fetchland, dual land, double SFM, FoW, and counterspell. I resolve a T2 SFM fetching batterskull. I protect SFM with counterspell, but the batterskull eats an ancient grudge anyway. Next turn SFM #2 fetches jitte. Turn after that TNN resolves, and jitte gets stuck to it. Seals up the game from there.
Match 3: UR Delver (ID)
We played all three games and I lost all three games. Made some play mistakes but I don’t really remember. UR delver just felt really fast, probably going to have to work on this MU some more.
Decklist feels solid, I want a second snapcaster in there eventually, just need to go pick up a copy. Collective brutality of a 3 of seems to be working out. 3 might be excessive, but so far its been a really flexible utility card.
Do we really need Deluge? TNN is so important for us that I can't help but feel like I'm shooting myself in the foot running Deluge over an additional Persecution or something. - 1/-1 deals with unflipped Delver, most Elves, and the most annoying creatures in D&T such as Mom, Wisp and old Thalia.
Thoughts?
Are you not playing Zealous Persecution?
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