Page 16 of 26 FirstFirst ... 6121314151617181920 ... LastLast
Results 301 to 320 of 515

Thread: [Deck] Deathblade

  1. #301
    Don't just have an idea - have all of them
    Neo900's Avatar
    Join Date

    Apr 2016
    Location

    Germnay
    Posts

    137

    Re: [Deck]Esper Deathblade

    Kotr can search you karakas and maze of ith. Or can bring up the Dark Depths combo.
    In Bant it's probably the karakas which is pretty good against Emrakul.
    Last edited by Neo900; 05-17-2017 at 03:15 AM. Reason: Original post was quite confusing

  2. #302
    Is Cancer

    Join Date

    Jul 2014
    Posts

    1,146

    Re: [Deck] Deathblade

    Quote Originally Posted by whocansay View Post
    Tescrin: I'm very new to Legacy so apologies for the possibly idiotic question, but how does KOTR shore up your SneakShow matchup?
    As neo said, the Karakas she can fetch is pretty handy. They Show & Tell, you drop a Knight (or a natural karakas) off of it, untap, bounce their legend and swing. I also found KotR, while not necessary, is quite handy against Infect (or when you see the opportunity to mana screw) for repeat-wasting opponents so they're locked out.

    That said, I'm going somewhat counter heavy at this point because:
    * They avoid Leo/TNN protections
    * They work against everything
    * other stuff?

    And banking on Flash-dudes or tokens with equips being a good idea. I'll get to run it at a local in a couple days and will report from there.

    Either way, this means I'm moving away from KotR/QPM/Decay and towards an approach that hopes to make the opponent react to what I'm doing while I hold up a bunch of counter-magic to keep them off the board.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  3. #303
    Predictor of Miracles
    Minniehajj's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2015
    Location

    Columbus, OH
    Posts

    458

    Re: [Deck]Esper Deathblade

    Quote Originally Posted by MrFrowny_ View Post
    I believe Marit Large is a 20/20, but your point is correct.
    He/She is talking about Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    Quote Originally Posted by B88 View Post

    People Use Statistics as a Drunk Uses a Lamppost — For Support Rather Than Illumination

  4. #304

    Re: [Deck]Esper Deathblade

    Quote Originally Posted by Minniehajj View Post
    He/She is talking about Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    You're right, I just saw the Marit Large in the sentence before and assumed they were talking about the same thing. I deleted my post.
    "The enemy is getting too close! Quick! Inflate the toad!"

  5. #305

    Re: [Deck] Deathblade

    Hey, I was on deathblade before but I switched to Maverick due to budget reasons but I'm thinking about trying to get back onto deathblade.

    Current list is looking like this: (sorry for the poor formatting, im on mobile now ill try to fix it up later)

    1 Bayou
    3 Flooded Strand
    2 Island
    3 Marsh Flats
    2 Plains
    3 Polluted Delta
    1 Scrubland
    1 Swamp
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Tundra
    1 Underground Sea
    4 Wasteland

    3 Baleful Strix
    1 Batterskull
    2 Bitterblossom
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Council's Judgment
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Force of Will
    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    3 Ponder
    2 Spell Pierce
    3 Stoneforge Mystic
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    4 True-Name Nemesis
    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    Sideboard:

    3 Dread of Night
    3 Flusterstorm
    3 Supreme Verdict

    ====

    As you can tell, i only have 9 sideboard cards. I'm trying to find cards to fit in. Currently I want to add cards that help against eldrazi and decks like food chain/aluren, and shardless bug. Im kind of at a loss as to how to beat those decks in particular.

    Also i have some choices im not so sure about in my mainboard in todaya meta. Im not sure how good baleful strix is going to be, is it necessary still? It helps against eldrazi and delver decks I guess but thats about it. Im also unsure about bitterblossom. I wanted to try and fit in a leovald or a knight of the reliquary + package but i wasnt sure how to fit that in the mainboard without destroying my mana.

    Currently not as many duals as i would like due to budget. Ideally would add another tundra and underground sea.

    Also im unsure about plainswalkers. Jtms is the main one but im also considering lotv, and the new simic nissa with the x casting cost. She seems great for grindy matchups but i havent played with her at all yet

  6. #306

    Re: [Deck] Deathblade

    I think you might have an awfully tough time consistently getting WW, UU, and BB off of a manabase with 5 basics.

  7. #307

    Re: [Deck] Deathblade

    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoSol View Post
    Hey, I was on deathblade before but I switched to Maverick due to budget reasons but I'm thinking about trying to get back onto deathblade.

    Current list is looking like this: (sorry for the poor formatting, im on mobile now ill try to fix it up later)

    1 Bayou
    3 Flooded Strand
    2 Island
    3 Marsh Flats
    2 Plains
    3 Polluted Delta
    1 Scrubland
    1 Swamp
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Tundra
    1 Underground Sea
    4 Wasteland

    3 Baleful Strix
    1 Batterskull
    2 Bitterblossom
    4 Brainstorm
    2 Council's Judgment
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Force of Will
    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    3 Ponder
    2 Spell Pierce
    3 Stoneforge Mystic
    3 Swords to Plowshares
    4 True-Name Nemesis
    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    Sideboard:

    3 Dread of Night
    3 Flusterstorm
    3 Supreme Verdict

    ====

    As you can tell, i only have 9 sideboard cards. I'm trying to find cards to fit in. Currently I want to add cards that help against eldrazi and decks like food chain/aluren, and shardless bug. Im kind of at a loss as to how to beat those decks in particular.

    Also i have some choices im not so sure about in my mainboard in todaya meta. Im not sure how good baleful strix is going to be, is it necessary still? It helps against eldrazi and delver decks I guess but thats about it. Im also unsure about bitterblossom. I wanted to try and fit in a leovald or a knight of the reliquary + package but i wasnt sure how to fit that in the mainboard without destroying my mana.

    Currently not as many duals as i would like due to budget. Ideally would add another tundra and underground sea.

    Also im unsure about plainswalkers. Jtms is the main one but im also considering lotv, and the new simic nissa with the x casting cost. She seems great for grindy matchups but i havent played with her at all yet


    Hey so there's a lot to discuss with this. I understand you're on a budget, i mean who isn't these days, but at minimum you're probably going to need a another tundra and an underground sea. You're trying for a four color manabase, and at this point i just don't think this mana base is up to the task. If it helps you could play UW stoneblade with back to basics. Its nothing to sneeze at and super punishes greedy manabases, and it doesn't require that many duals!

    To outline my concerns:

    At least by my count you have 23 lands. The land count itself is fine, but you run into color problems. First, your manabase is very light on blue.
    4 Wasteland
    2 Plains
    1 Swamp
    1 Scrubland
    1 Bayou

    9 of your lands don't tap for blue mana! For reference most lists you see will have roughly the same number of lands, but will run 2 wastelands, 1 plains, 1 swamp, and maybe one karakas/utility land for a total of 5 non blue lands at most.

    Additionally i'd advise going down to 1 marsh flats and adding 1 flooded strand and 1 polluted delta so you can fetch basic islands.

    I think this mana base would be pretty solid, but i'd probably still like another underground sea if i could.
    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Island
    1 Marsh Flats
    1 Plains
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Scrubland
    1 Swamp
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Creeping Tarpit
    2 Tundra
    2 Underground Sea
    3 Wasteland


    Okay now for the maindeck. Here's what i think should go:
    -2 Council's Judgement-Its kinda slow and the WW mana cost can get clunky.
    -1 Ponder - 3 ponders is a lot, i'd rather this become an action spell
    -1 True Name Nemesis - 4 is pretty excessive, i think 3 is a good number, but a lot of builds go down to as few as two.

    I'd add
    +3 Thoughtseize(I'm honestly pretty surprised this isn't in the maindeck already, it helps with a lot of matchups by letting you take their best card and giving you a lot of information)
    +1 Swords to plowshares


    Stuff i'd like to add- 1 or 2 Snapcaster mage, 1 or 2 fatal push


    Sideboard:
    Not a fan of supreme verdict, i'm sure other guys on this thread are tired of me saying this. To keep it short, 1WWU is extremely color intensive, if you're against a wasteland/bloodmoon deck its going to be difficult to develop your manabase to this point. "Tax" effects like thalia make this cost 5. I suspect that this card will end up rotting in your hand or getting pitched to FoW more often than you actually get to cast it.

    3 dread of night seems pretty excessive. Obviously its an all star against Dnt, but its just such a narrow card i couldn't recommend this many of them unless you pretty much know you're going to be fighting a dnt deck consistently.

    For reference here's my sideboard, not recommending you carbon copy it, but its a good place to at least start.
    1 Containment Priest
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Zealous Persecution
    1 Engineered Plague
    2 Meddling Mage
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Path to Exile
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Invasive Surgery

    Regarding JTMS vs liliana. You'll find two mindsets here, i'm not sure which one is right. I don't like liliana since i don't think our deck can run her +1 well, we don't have cards we can really just throw away. Maybe if you ran lingering souls/snapcaster mage you could swing it, but you don't run either one. Others just like her because she's just such a powerhouse on her own and pumping her out T2 is pretty nuts.

    Regarding those matchups:
    Eldrazi-Feels kind rough. Chalice on one is a beating and their wastelands don't help either. I run 6 point removals so that helps. Toxic deluge is also good, and engineered kills chalices. Path to exile i'm experimenting with for this matchup(and against BUG greedy manabases) as they don't have basics to fetch. You also run a lot of wastelands which are MVPs in this matchup. Good news is this deck *should* be on the downswing with the absence of miracles. Don't know if that'll actually pan out though.

    Food chain/aluren: Thoughtseize helps with food chain. Regarding aluren, more killspells help, 3 STP with no snapcaster just isn't going to cut it.

    Shardless: I haven't really played it against this much. I know there aren't a lot of basics so killing their duals and deathrites will definitely help. Other than that i know this deck tends to outvalue us so this tends to be a bad matchup.
    Last edited by First_Revenge; 05-22-2017 at 10:06 AM.

  8. #308

    Re: [Deck] Deathblade

    Ok so mainboard I agree with cutting a ponder and 2 council's judgment and 1 true name. I'm down for the 4th stp, but I don't know how I feel about thoughtseize. I don't like it against burn, eldrazi, shardless, and delver decks which is enough of the local meta that I don't want to mainboard it. I'll probably add some snaps and pushes instead. Might even play around with a 1-2 of mainboard path

    Is creeping tar pit really that good? Ive seen a lot of lists start to run it but im afraid of the etb tapped part, is that ever a big deal?

    Ill probably do 1 marsh flats for 4 deltas and strands, but i dont think i can get the extra sea and tundra. Might just run a shockland or 2 instead.

    Side: i still like some form of board wipe that isnt toxic deluge. The life cost on deluge can be huge and ive gotten blown out by it a lot. Do you think something like regular ol wrath of god/damnation will work?

    Definitely need to add surgicals to sideboard, probably 2-3. Maybe a containment priest or ethersworn canonist oe even gaddock teeg will fit in there, will play with them more.

    Also has anyone here played with a 1-2 of monastary mentor in the 75 somewhere? Seems like a good go wide option

  9. #309

    Re: [Deck] Deathblade

    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoSol View Post
    Ok so mainboard I agree with cutting a ponder and 2 council's judgment and 1 true name. I'm down for the 4th stp, but I don't know how I feel about thoughtseize. I don't like it against burn, eldrazi, shardless, and delver decks which is enough of the local meta that I don't want to mainboard it. I'll probably add some snaps and pushes instead. Might even play around with a 1-2 of mainboard path

    Is creeping tar pit really that good? Ive seen a lot of lists start to run it but im afraid of the etb tapped part, is that ever a big deal?

    Ill probably do 1 marsh flats for 4 deltas and strands, but i dont think i can get the extra sea and tundra. Might just run a shockland or 2 instead.

    Side: i still like some form of board wipe that isnt toxic deluge. The life cost on deluge can be huge and ive gotten blown out by it a lot. Do you think something like regular ol wrath of god/damnation will work?

    Definitely need to add surgicals to sideboard, probably 2-3. Maybe a containment priest or ethersworn canonist oe even gaddock teeg will fit in there, will play with them more.

    Also has anyone here played with a 1-2 of monastary mentor in the 75 somewhere? Seems like a good go wide option
    Without knowing your meta it’s hard for me to know how correct your exclusion of thoughtseize is. Generally speaking though, I’d categorically disagree with your assessment of the card.
    To explain my reasoning for including it:
    1. I don’t always know what my opponent is playing. Maybe your meta has players more or less married to a deck so you know what you’re playing against. This assumption gets problematic if you ever play at a different store/larger tournament.
    2. Thoughtseize takes their best card.
    3. Thoughtseize lets me sculpt my game plan based around what they have. Immediately answers questions like what is he playing, should I fetch basics, how far is he from comboing off, etc..
    4. Thoughtseize represents the proactive part of your gameplan. Thoughtseize forces your opponent to make decisions or allows you to clear the way for things like TNN by taking a counterspell or something. FoW and spell pierce are great reactive cards but you can’t lean on them entirely. Spell pierce is a soft counter and FoW is an automatic 2 for 1. Look at thoughtseize as a quasi hard counter.
    5. Generally speaking it’s useful way more often than its dead. About the only matchup it’s dead in is burn. It’s not ideal against eldrazi/delver but it’s not horrible either.

    Creeping tarpit was my way of trying to provide a budget alternative to underground sea. Personally I’d agree that it’s a liability, but it’s shown up in the KMC lists which have been doing quite well in japan.

    Shocklands could work, depending on how competitive you are they could end up being a pretty serious liability. Again if you aren’t willing to shell out for duals, which is totally understandable, I’d recommend looking at UW stoneblade whose main strength is a lot of basics.

    Regarding toxic deluge, I’ve looked high and low for this sweeper you speak of and come up empty. Wrath and damnation suffer from the same problems as verdict so I don’t consider them viable.
    1. Wrath/damnation both cost 4 so they aren’t any cheaper than verdict.
    2. Wrath/damnation both set you up to eat a wasteland, verdict has this problem to a greater extent.
    3. Verdict can’t be countered but wrath can. Verdict can also be pitched to force of will.

    Toxic deluge doesn’t require you to fetch any non basics and is cheaper. Does it suck to pay 5 for it against eldrazi, you bet it does. I just don’t have a better alternative sadly.


    I toyed around with the idea of adding mentor, but it didn’t seem any better than vendilion clique or leovold. Mentor got ridiculous when miracles had two tops they could spam. While it could be good in our deck I can’t escape the notion that we could be doing something better with our mana. Besides you already have two bitterblossoms, so I don’t see a need for another token generator.

  10. #310

    Re: [Deck] Deathblade

    I'm not sold on thoughtseize yet but I'll throw 3 in the main anyways to test it out.

    I really don't like toxic deluge. It just feels terrible when I'm against a creature aggro deck to pay life. I've played with it before and especially against eldrazi it feels terrible. Maybe Retribution of the Meek? Or Meekstone? They do feel kind of narrow though. Worship is more broad but also feels kind of slow.

    Could also have something like Glissa, the Traitor which just wins in combat all day? Or something like Gifted Aetherborn which is hard to cast but trades and gains some life.

  11. #311

    Re: [Deck] Deathblade

    Just curious how many people in your local meta play eldrazi? You just seem really hung up on beating this one deck. We could make more changes to tune your deck to beat eldrazi but those changes would make your deck worse against the rest of the field. As it stands you seem to have a lot of cards that are pretty good against eldrazi, 3 baleful strix, 4 STP, and maybe some fatal push.

    That being said you may have to accept that eldrazi is rough matchup for us.
    1. They attack our complex manabase via 4 wasteland
    2. Chalice on 1 shuts off all our point removal, so you basically need to have FoW T1.
    3. Their creatures are bigger than ours and they deploy them very quickly.

    Regarding toxic deluge, like I said ya it’s not great, but you can at least cast it through wastelands.

    Ya meekstone/retribution of the meek feel too narrow. Worship is okay, but they can get out of it with all is dust.

    Regarding Glissa, BGG would be a really tough casting cost off of an optimal manabase, let alone one with shocks and basics. Probably just too clunky.

    I’d probably run another baleful strix before I ran gifted aetherborn.

  12. #312
    Is Cancer

    Join Date

    Jul 2014
    Posts

    1,146

    Re: [Deck] Deathblade

    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoSol View Post
    worried about eldrazi stuff
    You're actually in a deck arch that is well positioned depending on card choices.
    Long story short, TNN, BSK, Strix, and Gurmag are all wildly powerful against them. If you have some but feel weak, add some TNN/Strix/Angler/BSK and see if you still feel weak, rinse and repeat.

    Explanation:
    * Strix is CA that trades with their dudes. You will grind their inconsistent deck out with CA by trading a garbage creature for a card and either a Wail or a dude.
    * TNN is a wall to anything not-reality-smasher. Thus.. TNNs are good at stalling the game and allowing you to grind them out.
    * Gurmag is the same size or bigger than almost their whole deck. He is a bully who will throw his weight around and allow you to be defensive or offensive with little care.
    * BSK is able to easily trade with their more common dudes and gain you a turn's worth of life out of the deal.

    Honestly, you're in one of the best color combinations* to deal with Eldrazi. Between Plow, the aforementioned cards and their synergies, and ability to just Daze/Force their Chalice or dudes with impunity, you should not have major issues. I get that a lot of people moved from Strix and may not even run Angler, but Eldrazi are a small portion of the metagame and the brick-wall version of this deck is quite possible to do while maintaining good anti-combo game.

    *I believe the only color combo I'd rather have is Bant, since if you run KotR he is not only bigger than their guys, but able to waste them out. That said, Strix + Gurmag are arguably better.


    EDIT: Looking at your list, you have 23 lands. This is unnecessary. Daze > Spell pierce too, especially for T1 DRS or T2 SFM->BSK.
    Out: -2 Lands (your choice), -2 Spell Pierce, -2 Ponder
    In: 3 Daze, 1 Baleful Strix, 2 Gurmag Angler

    If you're still unable to hold off eldrazi with 7 free counters, 4 plow, and 10 walls then it starts feeling like it's the player. 23 lands is huge. I think I run 20 and have two 4-drop Walkers, 3 wastelands to boot. Got screwed once by Delver in a super close game, but otherwise it hasn't been biting me. If anything I feel like I'm flooding half the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  13. #313

    Re: [Deck] Deathblade

    Mmm maybe I'm just playing the Eldrazi match up wrong, Do you guys know any vods for stoneblade decks vs eldrazi? Everyone here plays combo or delver or eldrazi

    I'm fine with going down to 22 lands but 20-21 seems so little with only 4 dorks. If I was running 2-4 hierarchs too I'd be in but idk about going down too many lands.

    And for the spell pierce daze argument, is it ok to run daze when it's only like a 2 of? Or should I be making space for 3-4

    e: misread, I see that you wanted me to go to 3 dazes now. I'll try that out

  14. #314

    Re: [Deck] Deathblade

    I decided to take a crack at Deathblade and ended up going 4-1 in a league with this list:


    4 Deathrite Shaman
    3 Stoneforge Mystic
    3 Baleful Strix
    2 True-Name Nemesis
    1 Snapcaster Mage

    4 Brainstorm
    3 Ponder
    4 Force of Will
    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Inquisition of Kozilek
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Vindicate

    2 Liliana of the Veil
    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    1 Batterskull
    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Marsh Flats
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Tundra
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Scrubland
    3 Wasteland
    1 Island
    1 Plains
    1 Swamp


    The targeted discard felt great, the Lilis felt great, and the Vindicate felt great (though I could see running Council's Judgement in that slot too). This does not feel like a deck that wants Daze or Counterspell.

    I am not going to make changes until I get some more reps in with the deck, but I would really appreciate any comments! Cheers
    Last edited by FZA; 05-29-2017 at 06:09 PM.
    Nobody plays Legacy anymore, the tournaments are all too crowded

  15. #315

    Re: [Deck] Deathblade

    Quote Originally Posted by FZA View Post
    I decided to take a crack at Deathblade and ended up going 4-1 in a league with this list:

    4 Deathrite Shaman
    3 Stoneforge Mystic
    3 Baleful Strix
    2 True-Name Nemesis
    1 Snapcaster Mage

    4 Brainstorm
    3 Ponder
    4 Force of Will
    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Inquisition of Kozilek
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    1 Vindicate

    2 Liliana of the Veil
    1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    1 Batterskull
    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Marsh Flats
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Tundra
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Scrubland
    3 Wasteland
    1 Island
    1 Plains
    1 Swamp

    The targeted discard felt great, the Lilis felt great, and the Vindicate felt great (though I could see running Council's Judgement in that slot too). This does not feel like a deck that wants Daze or Counterspell.

    I am not going to make changes until I get some more reps in with the deck, but I would really appreciate any comments! Cheers
    List looks good. Personally I’ve gotten off baleful strix, I think outright killspells like fatal push are better than the strix.

    3 ponders might be a bit much as well.

    I used to run vindicate but it felt too slow and inefficient. Fatal push ended up pushing this card out of my list. If it worked out for you so be it though. Left to my own devices I might do the following

    -3 Baleful Strix
    -1 Ponder
    -1 Vindicate
    +1 True Name Nemesis
    +1 Leovold(I’m debating 2, he’s seriously THAT good despite the mana cost)
    +2 Fatal Push
    +1 Snapcaster

    Just my $0.02. Good to see deathblade is working out on mtgo.

  16. #316

    Re: [Deck] Deathblade

    Hey guys,

    I've been doing a lot of thinking regarding the bans in other formats and the current state of them and have decided to just bite the bullet and get the final few duals I'm missing to complete a reasonable Legacy deck that I'll enjoy (I kinda hate all the decks considered to be T1 atm except storm and I don't even really enjoy playing Storm).

    I've been a fan of SFM decks since back when she was legal in standard (good times!), I absolutely love the card. Thus I've naturally gravitated towards Deathblade (which everyone says is strictly better Stoneblade which would have been what I played).

    So here's my question for the day: Bant or Esper stoneblade? 4c? Can anyone explain to me the benefits of each version of the deck as well as their weaknesses amongst the current field? Here's what I've understood so far:

    - TNN is the stone cold nuts in the current Meta
    - Leovold is mental, you probably want to play him
    - Legacy is a fantastic format and I love it so much!

    All kidding aside, I've been trying really hard to adsorb all the information I could gleam about the current Legacy meta and it's been going pretty well I suppose. That being said, if I'm gonna buy into a deck, I really wanted to consult with people with more hands-on experience before I went ahead and spent hundreds of dollars. I've been asked for what I was looking for in a deck and apparently 'Caw-Blade 2.0' is not a good answer. So I'll try to give a more detailed one. I'm looking for a solid control/tempo deck that (hopefully) plays Stoneforge Mystic and Jace, The Mind Sculptor. If I should look elsewhere, please feel free to let me know!

    Thanks so much guys, cheers from Canada!
    ~Nez

  17. #317
    Is Cancer

    Join Date

    Jul 2014
    Posts

    1,146

    Re: [Deck] Deathblade

    Quote Originally Posted by Ilnez View Post
    So here's my question for the day: Bant or Esper stoneblade? 4c? Can anyone explain to me the benefits of each version of the deck as well as their weaknesses amongst the current field? Here's what I've understood so far:

    - TNN is the stone cold nuts in the current Meta
    - Leovold is mental, you probably want to play him
    - Legacy is a fantastic format and I love it so much!
    Pros and Cons of each:

    Pros of Bant:
    * More mana dudes = More broken opening hands.
    * Also means easier time getting early equips online
    * Easier access to Destroy Enchantment/Artifact cards in the main (RecSage, QPM, etc.) due to Green
    * Easier time casting Jace
    * Games end earlier
    * Access to KotR

    Cons of Bant:
    * More bad mid/late game draws
    * Basically no access to Tokens
    * Color reqs get gross (GW, UU, UGB, WW; and your first land is almost always a Trop)
    * Fetching black for Hate cards can be a problem

    Either/Or of Bant:
    * Access to Hatebears & Counters (and you usually want to interact on multiple axis against combo.)


    Pros of Esper:
    * Lingering Souls or Bitterblossom. I win half my matches just on the back of Bitterblossom being ridiculous. I also occasionally lose to the life drain, but Live by the Blossom, Die by the Blossom. Note: These make TNN much better against Liliana (though a bit worse against -1/-1 effects)
    * Is actually black. => Ease of killing opposing boardstates and TNNs especially.
    * Can run Discard if desired (though I personally don't.)
    * Painful Truths
    * USea->DRS >>>>>>>> Trop->DRS
    * Access to Angler/Strix

    Cons of Esper:
    * Every good creature or card you run is probably 1 toughness except DRS/Mystic
    * Tends to grind. As I said, I usually win off of my token cards or an equip
    * Arty/Enchant hate tends to be worse (though there are options: D-Sphere, Vindicate, Judgement, etc.)


    Esper tends to be a deck that takes awhile to kill you, but has lots of inevitability via cards like Truths, Souls, etc.. where you can have no boardstate and no cards, draw a topdeck, and say "lol." Bant is a bit more aggressive since it's CA solely comes from SFM/SCM. Esper can also be designed to run Mentor due to the power of Truths (and honestly, I'd consider Think Twice or Deep analysis with Mentor the next time I try him.)

    IMO, the access to good token cards was the deciding factor for me. I switch between them a bit (have one built for a buddy, and one for myself at the moment.)


    EDIT: IMO, don't go deep on Leo if you haven't already. I think he'll see his way out over time as the meta adjusts to his existence. Personally I only run Brainstorm that can be hit by him, and otherwise do most of my interaction on the stack so I don't trigger his nonsense. I expect others are doing the same thing; such as Portent or instant speed cantrips being used to get around his ability. In time I expect this will make him a GSZ target and a BUG staple, and leave it at that. I know I'm in the minority here, but I wouldn't worry about 4-colors outside of getting a sideboard card online or the G-DRS activation.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nestalim View Post
    Wrong. Gideon Emblem protect you from losing and you can even open your binder and slam some cards on the board, not even the HJ can DQ you now.

  18. #318
    Member
    apistat_commander's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2011
    Location

    Denver, CO
    Posts

    111

    Re: [Deck] Deathblade

    Sorry to echo a question above: but is DRS so good that Deathblade has entirely replaced traditional Stoneblade lists? I've been away from the game for 4 years, so I'm trying to catch up on some of the deck development. It seems like the same shift has happened with Delver, with Grixis/BUG overtaking traditional RUG by a wide margin. I tried posting over in the other Blade Control thread, but that seems to have entirely died.

    DRS doesn't really pressure the manabase if you are playing UBWg list and it accelerates the deck while also giving you a utility dork which is great. However it means that you can't run sweepers (Supreme Verdict, EE) and that your maindeck is much tighter. I've been play testing Esper Stoneblade (w/o DRS) on Cockatrice and doing alright, but the player quality on Cockatrice can be pretty abysmal. I'll throw together a Deathblade list to try out as well, but would love to get some input to see if I should even be putting time into traditional lists.

  19. #319
    The Fire of Justice Burns Like Nothing Else
    Seraphix's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jun 2014
    Location

    Jacksonville, FL
    Posts

    283

    Re: [Deck] Deathblade

    Quote Originally Posted by apistat_commander View Post
    Sorry to echo a question above: but is DRS so good that Deathblade has entirely replaced traditional Stoneblade lists? I've been away from the game for 4 years, so I'm trying to catch up on some of the deck development. It seems like the same shift has happened with Delver, with Grixis/BUG overtaking traditional RUG by a wide margin. I tried posting over in the other Blade Control thread, but that seems to have entirely died.

    DRS doesn't really pressure the manabase if you are playing UBWg list and it accelerates the deck while also giving you a utility dork which is great. However it means that you can't run sweepers (Supreme Verdict, EE) and that your maindeck is much tighter. I've been play testing Esper Stoneblade (w/o DRS) on Cockatrice and doing alright, but the player quality on Cockatrice can be pretty abysmal. I'll throw together a Deathblade list to try out as well, but would love to get some input to see if I should even be putting time into traditional lists.
    As you point out, Deathrite Shaman has a lot to offer to an Esperblade deck at a low opportunity cost. Esperblade can be cumbersome so the mana acceleration is a huge plus, not to mention DRS actually improves your mana base by providing resilience against Wasteland and color-fixing. DRS also adds an axis of interaction against graveyard-based strategies. The card is busted.

    Encouraging you to move away from maindeck sweepers like Verdict and EE is one cost of playing the card, and you also usually have to trim some card advantage like the 3rd-4th Snapcaster Mage/Jace to accommodate it as well.

    That being said, I haven't seen Esper Deathblade put up a good result for some time, while classic Esperblade has. Overall both strategies are fully viable and I think which one to go with is mostly up to player preference.

  20. #320
    Member
    apistat_commander's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2011
    Location

    Denver, CO
    Posts

    111

    Re: [Deck] Deathblade

    Quote Originally Posted by Seraphix View Post
    As you point out, Deathrite Shaman has a lot to offer to an Esperblade deck at a low opportunity cost. Esperblade can be cumbersome so the mana acceleration is a huge plus, not to mention DRS actually improves your mana base by providing resilience against Wasteland and color-fixing. DRS also adds an axis of interaction against graveyard-based strategies. The card is busted.

    Encouraging you to move away from maindeck sweepers like Verdict and EE is one cost of playing the card, and you also usually have to trim some card advantage like the 3rd-4th Snapcaster Mage/Jace to accommodate it as well.

    That being said, I haven't seen Esper Deathblade put up a good result for some time, while classic Esperblade has. Overall both strategies are fully viable and I think which one to go with is mostly up to player preference.
    Cool, thanks for the input! I was concerned because the Esper Blade list I threw together was essentially the same thing I was playing 4 years ago which made me feel like I was doing something wrong. It seems like the meta is pretty similar to back then with Miracles taken out, combo being viable again, and fair decks trying to grind each other out.

    On traditional Stoneblade: The only thing that seems to have changed much is Snapcaster Mage becoming worse with the prevalence of DRS. That being said, running maindeck Wrath effect(s) seems pretty good right now. There are a lot of creature based decks that would be punished by EE/Supreme Verdict/etc. The manabase is not greedy and you can cast 95% of your spells off your 4 basics, as I imagine decks that main non-basic hate should be coming back. Discard + counters gives you an alright G1 against combo, and post-board you transform into a hate machine for whatever your opponent is playing.

    On Deathblade: The addition of DRS allows you to more effectively take the aggressive role if necessary. It also doesn't hurt your control game too much because the mana acceleration and instant-speed ability mean you don't have to tap out as often. I don't like the idea of being more reliant on creatures, but I certainly see the potential.

    I suppose I'll need to test both to see what I prefer and what fits my local meta the best. I remember old Stoneblade feeling so well balanced against the meta: you had tools for every MU. I never felt like any of my match-ups were impossible, which was a nice feeling compared to Delver/Combo where some decks felt like running into a brick wall.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)