[Deck] Deathblade

[glazed]

Thanks a lot for answering

I'll try using MMage then.

In any case, if you don't bring MMage to Burn / URDelver matches, how do you deal with Smash to Sm ? It kinds of destroy all our game plan.

Honestly Mage isn't terrible against Burn because it plays like a combo deck (and some people argue it is a combo deck) and you can name the payoff spells like Fireblast and Price of Progress. But it really depends on your 75 what is truly effective against burn.

[ClimbGneiss]

Meddling Mage is a powerful card.
What you name with it depends on the situation and the informatipn ypu might have.

Miracles: Terminus is fine. It creates pressure. Even counterbalance on turn 2 could be ok to prevent the lock.
Storm: typical here is infernal. Agains tes it is hard because they have burning wish as well.
Show and Tell; Show and Tell. We have needle and priest for sneak attack. Show and tell is just the more flexible card.
Reanimator: you can use it to minimize their options to reanimate something. I name exhume because it doesn't target and is harder to hate with shaman or surgical.
Dredge: dread return or cabal therapy. They don't cast anything else.

I would note that I bring in meddling mage vs miracles. You name Terminus and it forces them to 1 for 1 and Swords the Mage before using Terminus on your board. Gives you time to find answers. But, knowing miracles they will find all of the answers.

Against burn, my game plan is to fetch basics. Keep up Wasteland to waate my own duals in response to pop. Then I use sfm to find Jitte or batterskull. Jitte feels pretty good because of relative lack of cost to reequip. Try to avoid Sulfuric vortex. Landing tnn is also really effective as you can gum up the board versus their creature draws. I Force turn 1 Goblin guides because of the amount of damage that will usually rack up. You got to weigh to amount of damage each individual Spell will do.

[pipet76]

When I mentioned MMage and Smash to S I was actually talking about U/R Delver that quite a thing in my meta. I really don't know how to play around it 'cause even if I counter / thoughsieze it they have Snap to bring it back.

And lets say I name it with MMage, they can always bolt the mage and then play Smash to S.

[Seraphix]

When I mentioned MMage and Smash to S I was actually talking about U/R Delver that quite a thing in my meta. I really don't know how to play around it 'cause even if I counter / thoughsieze it they have Snap to bring it back.

And lets say I name it with MMage, they can always bolt the mage and then play Smash to S.

UR Delver is a bad enough matchup that I'd consider playing specialized SB hate if it's a thing in your meta. Chill, Hydroblast, Warmth, CoP: Red, Absolute Law, etc.

[ClimbGneiss]

UR Delver is a bad enough matchup that I'd consider playing specialized SB hate if it's a thing in your meta. Chill, Hydroblast, Warmth, CoP: Red, Absolute Law, etc.

I think, in my limited experience, that I have did my best to play the control deck. Let them counter a threat or two in exchange for killing their limited threats. Then landing something that wins the game.

[pipet76]

So, I’ve been testing MMage against storm a lot of times with a friend, and basically they have like 2 Massacres on their SB at the very least, so at each time he got rid of my mage with it and then he went off.

It’s really a complicated match in my opinion, and I don’t know if MMage is the right for it. I was thinking about a Cannonist, but she’s not good at anything else.

[Neo900]

canonist is also great against elves, omnishow. but ethersworn canonist has the same as meddling mage, he dies to massacre.
the storm match up is hard. you need a great mix including disruption, counterspells and hatebears.
I managed to win against TES by casting 3 thoughtseize and leaving him with just a few lands and a Lotus petal.
Leovold and flusterstorm is a great combination. you are allowed to draw a card for each storm copy they got. at least 8-10 cards. this allows you to find flusterstorm or mindbreak trap.
Leovold blocks also his cantrips.

[ClimbGneiss]

canonist is also great against elves, omnishow. but ethersworn canonist has the same as meddling mage, he dies to massacre.
the storm match up is hard. you need a great mix including disruption, counterspells and hatebears.
I managed to win against TES by casting 3 thoughtseize and leaving him with just a few lands and a Lotus petal.
Leovold and flusterstorm is a great combination. you are allowed to draw a card for each storm copy they got. at least 8-10 cards. this allows you to find flusterstorm or mindbreak trap.
Leovold blocks also his cantrips.

Neo beat me to this, but the leovold interaction is one that I'm looking forward to witnessing. It really incentives brainstorming away your flusterstorm so they can't hit it with discard. Alternatively, if you know you will have 3 mana open you can hope to hit a Snapcaster and use Flusterstorm early so it's sitting in your yard. Leovold is definitely a very cool out.

Neo also mentioned the Thoughtseize route. It seems to me that my best games versus storm include Deathrite Shaman and thoughtseize. Thoughtseize let's you take the card that provides the quickest route to the combo and Deathrite Shaman provides both a clock and a means to limit cabal Ritual or pif route combos. Also, Deathrite helps you cast sfm or tnn while still leaving mana open for pierce/mana leak/counterspell/Spell snare.

I won't lie, though. I've done literally everything I could versus storm and still had them top deck a Brainstorm and perfect me by finding something like led, past in Flames. To me, it exemplifies why storm still reigns king of combo decks. I find all the other combo decks much easier to beat given the right mixture of sideboard cards.

If storm is a really big problem in your area, you could play Orim's chant. Yeah, I know, it's not practical against many decks but it can be used versus show and tell as a way of ensuring your Force of will wins. Or against elves after they go for the combo, or during a strategic point of comboing in which you can stop them and then wipe their board. Also, and I'm not sure on the ruling on this, but you might be able to use in response to the ancestral visions trigger and any miracle trigger.

[Neo900]

Orim's chant is really special. With the right timing you can stop the whole deck. I would be afraid that Chant is too special in ist use. On the other side it can provide a time walk. In response to the last ancestral vision counter you are able to let it be into exile forever and with kicker it will be your turn.
But Flusterstorm will be the most flexible choice. And one or two Ethersworn Canonist.

[ClimbGneiss]

Orim's chant is really special. With the right timing you can stop the whole deck. I would be afraid that Chant is too special in ist use. On the other side it can provide a time walk. In response to the last ancestral vision counter you are able to let it be into exile forever and with kicker it will be your turn.
But Flusterstorm will be the most flexible choice. And one or two Ethersworn Canonist.

Another option to pair with Leovold: Mindbreak Trap. This way, if you had been hoping to cross your fingers and draw into a way of stopping the combo, you can still manage It while being tapped out.

Not my favorite option, but it's probably good to be thorough with our options.

[First_Revenge]

Question about leovold.

I really like the card generally speaking. I can see why he's so popular and i want to play him as a 2 of. The problem is the casting cost. BUG is not easy for my deck. I run a more conservative deathblade manabase with 4 basics, and a lone tropical island as the green source. The only reason its in there is to turn on deathrite's green ability as it can relevant somteimes. I'm in a pretty heavy wasteland meta.

While i could pretty easily slide 2 leovolds in i'm not sure how i handle the manabase. I'm pretty sure i'd need to add another green source, probably a bayou. But even then i'm not sure if 2 green sources plus the deathrites are enough.

Any opinions on the manabase required to run 2 leovolds? Is 2 green sources enough?

Thanks!

[ClimbGneiss]

Question about leovold.

I really like the card generally speaking. I can see why he's so popular and i want to play him as a 2 of. The problem is the casting cost. BUG is not easy for my deck. I run a more conservative deathblade manabase with 4 basics, and a lone tropical island as the green source. The only reason its in there is to turn on deathrite's green ability as it can relevant somteimes. I'm in a pretty heavy wasteland meta.

While i could pretty easily slide 2 leovolds in i'm not sure how i handle the manabase. I'm pretty sure i'd need to add another green source, probably a bayou. But even then i'm not sure if 2 green sources plus the deathrites are enough.

Any opinions on the manabase required to run 2 leovolds? Is 2 green sources enough?

Thanks!

I have similar design constraints as you do, because of my meta. I run just a single Leovold.

Personally, the way that I walk the line is:
- if I have the option to fetch basics and develop my mana base, I do so. Then, I push a game plan based on the basics.
- If I start the game with actual dual lands, and no fetches, I will aggressively fetch Tropical knowing I could draw leovold later and wanting to be prepared to cast it. The way coverage folk on scg and my peers explain it is that if you are already vulnerable to Wasteland, you may as well go all in with non basics so that you can keep a diverse mana base while you develop your board through wastelands. If they waste you off green, you will need to hope for a Deathrite Shaman or a force of will to pitch leovold to.

[First_Revenge]

I have similar design constraints as you do, because of my meta. I run just a single Leovold.

Personally, the way that I walk the line is:
- if I have the option to fetch basics and develop my mana base, I do so. Then, I push a game plan based on the basics.
- If I start the game with actual dual lands, and no fetches, I will aggressively fetch Tropical knowing I could draw leovold later and wanting to be prepared to cast it. The way coverage folk on scg and my peers explain it is that if you are already vulnerable to Wasteland, you may as well go all in with non basics so that you can keep a diverse mana base while you develop your board through wastelands. If they waste you off green, you will need to hope for a Deathrite Shaman or a force of will to pitch leovold to.

Maybe i do just run a one of? Honestly he seemed good enough to warrant a two of. Just to be clear in your build with 1 leovold you are only running one green source?

[Neo900]

I run Leovold as an one off too. I play also 2 green sources. Bayou and Tropical Island. Besides Leovold I run 2 Abrupt Decay and, depending on the meta and my mood, a Sylvan Library. I don't have many problems while playing. Most of the times opponents focus on my white or black mana.
I play 2 Basics. A swamp and an island. The swamp enables Deathrite Shaman who can fix mana and easier Tombstalker. With a Gurmag Angler in this slot I would be able to cast it easier under Blood Moon or while I'm screwed. The island enables cantrips and counters. 4 Brainstorm, 2 Ponder and 2 Spell Pierce. Both together let me cast my one off Baleful Strix.
Many players like to have a plains for Stoneforge Mystic. That's totally okay. A Batterskull can help with tough mana problems. I play none because I have a Karakas. I don't want to play it because I would have 2 solo white mana scources which can destroy the whole mana base.
I played without Abrupt Decay and green for a while and had Vindicate and Council's Judgment. Swamp and Plains are great with Vindicate because it enables you to destroy a Blood Moon just with your basics.

[First_Revenge]

I run Leovold as an one off too. I play also 2 green sources. Bayou and Tropical Island. Besides Leovold I run 2 Abrupt Decay and, depending on the meta and my mood, a Sylvan Library. I don't have many problems while playing. Most of the times opponents focus on my white or black mana.
I play 2 Basics. A swamp and an island. The swamp enables Deathrite Shaman who can fix mana and easier Tombstalker. With a Gurmag Angler in this slot I would be able to cast it easier under Blood Moon or while I'm screwed. The island enables cantrips and counters. 4 Brainstorm, 2 Ponder and 2 Spell Pierce. Both together let me cast my one off Baleful Strix.
Many players like to have a plains for Stoneforge Mystic. That's totally okay. A Batterskull can help with tough mana problems. I play none because I have a Karakas. I don't want to play it because I would have 2 solo white mana scources which can destroy the whole mana base.
I played without Abrupt Decay and green for a while and had Vindicate and Council's Judgment. Swamp and Plains are great with Vindicate because it enables you to destroy a Blood Moon just with your basics.

Hmm i don't run the two abrupts or the library, it would just be the one leovold, so it sounds like i might be able to get away with one green source then?

[ClimbGneiss]

Hmm i don't run the two abrupts or the library, it would just be the one leovold, so it sounds like i might be able to get away with one green source then?

Yeah, I think so. What's your list.

[First_Revenge]

Yeah, I think so. What's your list.

I'd probably yank a bitterblossom for the leovold

Lands-21

4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
3 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
2 Wasteland
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp


Creatures-13

4 Deathrite Shaman
3 True-Name Nemesis
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Snapcaster Mage


Spells: 23

4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
2 Bitterblossom
3 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vindicate


Artifacts: 2

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte


Planeswalkers: 2

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor


Sideboard:

1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Containment Priest
2 Flusterstorm
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Engineered Plague
1 Pithing Needle
2 Meddling Mage
1 Invasive Surgery
2 Surgical Extraction

[ClimbGneiss]

I'd probably yank a bitterblossom for the leovold

Lands-21

4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
3 Underground Sea
2 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
2 Wasteland
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp


Creatures-13

4 Deathrite Shaman
3 True-Name Nemesis
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Snapcaster Mage


Spells: 23

4 Force of Will
2 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
2 Bitterblossom
3 Thoughtseize
4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Vindicate


Artifacts: 2

1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte


Planeswalkers: 2

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor


Sideboard:

1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Containment Priest
2 Flusterstorm
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Engineered Plague
1 Pithing Needle
2 Meddling Mage
1 Invasive Surgery
2 Surgical Extraction

Nice. Also, may seem strange, you could remove a Jace to make room for Leovold. Jace being expensive/slow, Leovold is where I made room. I went to 1 Jace and 1 Leovold.

[Seraphix]

If I could get my hands on Leovolds I would probably try this:

4x DRS
4x SFM
2x SCM
3x TNN
2x Leovold

4x BS
2x Ponder
4x Plow
3x TS
1x Pierce
1x Snare
4x Force
1x Vindicate
1x LotV
1x Jitte
1x Bskull

4x Delta
4x Strand
1x Flats
1x Misty
3x Sea
2x Tundra
1x Scrub
1x Trop
1x Bayou
1x Karakas
1x Tar-Pit
2x Waste

SB: 2x Meddling Mage
SB: 2x Surgical
SB: 2x Decay
SB: 2x ZP
SB: 1x C-Priest
SB: 1x Sophie
SB: 1x Needle
SB: 1x Negate
SB: 1x Swan Song
SB: 1x Bitterblossom
SB: 1x Crucible

[Neo900]

Your lists are looking quite good. Leovold is very strong. I like the idea to cut Jace for him. I'm playing without Jace for a few months now. Also I am back to Painful Truths.
Mostly it draws 3 cards and is a reload after removal, counter and putting threats into play.
Sylvan Library is more like a card quality machine instead of drawing power because the draw is too expensive without more Batterskull hits. Of course it's stronger if you are able to use it multiple turns. But I replaced the Library for Truths and I like it so far.

How is Counterspell doing ? I don't have agood feeling about it. Double blue is no problem since we play Nemesis and Clique. But leaving up 2 mana makes the game slow. Just 1 for Spell Pierce is sometimes hard for me because the other Options are playing Nemesis, use Stoneforge or just doing something to develope our game.