I have loved Natural Order decks for a long time. They all suffer from the problem of how to protect their fragile combo and how to regain card disadvantage inherent in casting Natural Order (and Force of Will). The legends of Trest help to address these problems, and play well with NO, GSZ, and FoW. This is the deck I am starting with.
Creature (13)
1x Birds of Paradise
4x Deathrite Shaman
1x Edric, Spymaster of Trest
3x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1x Noble Hierarch
1x Progenitus
1x Tarmogoyf
1x Vendilion Clique
Instant (15)
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Brainstorm
4x Daze
4x Force of Will
Enchantment (1)
1x Sylvan Library
Sorcery (12)
3x Green Sun's Zenith
4x Natural Order
2x Ponder
3x Thoughtseize
Planeswalker (1)
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Land (19)
2x Bayou
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Forest
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Polluted Delta
3x Tropical Island
2x Underground Sea
4x Verdant Catacombs
Sideboard (15)
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Disfigure
2x Engineered Plague
2x Flusterstorm
1x Kitchen Finks
2x Scavenging Ooze
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Null Rod
1x Reclamation Sage
Main deck has 1 too many cards currently. The sideboard is also a work in progress. The main deck Tarmogoyf is really intended as a road block, or occasional cheap beater. That is my most likely cut to get to 60 but I am open to suggestions.
I like the mana base, # of dorks, and # of ways to get a naturally draw Progenitus back into the deck. Blue card and green creature counts are both acceptable, plus eight fetches into arbor is solid.
Alternatively the deck could be built without the GSZ package, going towards baleful strix, more ponders and cliques. This probably improves the delver matchup, but would require a dramatically different sideboard, and alteration of the acceleration and protection packages.
Thoughts?
I really like it. if you could find spot for 4 Delver, with Shaman that would be already a great plan-b winning condition.
Also 1x Gurmag Angler to make a use of the graveyard would be fine. Imho it's better than Tarmogoyf. It's not tutorable though
Also Vendilion is good but also Therapy + Probe would be
So your initial read would be that I should have a beat down aspect as the alt-win? Thoughtseize for goyf/GSZ targets or something of that ilk?
I use to play Bant NO, and there I always had Knight as the alt-win plan and GSZ got amazing hate bears. I would love to keep the deck truly 3 color.... Hmmm. Thanks for the input.
Beat down should be the main plan with the option to NO
The Parfait Meta-Game
The main issue with this deck is that GSZ and NO love green creatures and Edric loves evasive creatures. There aren't many good green evasive creatures... Leo is amazing but he is best as a silver bullet, multiple mainboard copies aren't very good.
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
This is a build that has more beef in the main, and a bit more grave hate and life gain (oozes) as supplemental disruption (where thoughtseizes had been). Edric is clearly weak in creature matchups, I was thinking of it as a card for control matchups main deck (similar to sword of fire and ice in stoneblade decks).
Creature (16)
4x Deathrite Shaman
1x Edric, Spymaster of Trest
2x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1x Noble Hierarch
1x Progenitus
2x Scavenging Ooze
3x Tarmogoyf
2x Vendilion Clique
Instant (15)
3x Abrupt Decay
4x Brainstorm
4x Daze
4x Force of Will
Planeswalker (1)
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Sorcery (8)
3x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Natural Order
2x Ponder
Enchantment (1)
1x Sylvan Library
Land (19)
2x Bayou
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Forest
4x Misty Rainforest
2x Polluted Delta
3x Tropical Island
2x Underground Sea
4x Verdant Catacombs
Sideboard (15)
1x Abrupt Decay
2x Disfigure
1x Empyrial Archangel
2x Engineered Plague
2x Flusterstorm
2x Kitchen Finks
2x Null Rod
1x Reclamation Sage
2x Surgical Extraction
-Edit-
Relevant numbers
Blue Count: 21
Green Creatures: 14 (counting arbor, not counting Progenitus)
Fetches that hit Dryad Arbor: 8
Ways to get Progenitus out of hand: 7
Also of note, without thoughtseize, this is quickly becoming simply UG with a light splash, so going back to my preferred Bant colors and splashing Leovold isn't out of the question. I try to get out but that Shard keeps pulling me back in.
It's difficult to justify jumping through hoops for Progenitus when you could just be casting True-Name Nemesis... You can easily turn TNN into Prog with a single Rafiq and you won't even have to sacrifice anything.
If you are absolutely determined to use NO, then I think Thoughtseize is the way to go. You don't really want to Daze in a slow deck that doesn't pack Wasteland and aims at casting big Zeniths and Orders.
Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
Get it...? Ass, u, me?
... ffs I was trying to be funny...
Awesome list OP. NO 4cc Progenitus is very underrated.
I would play the 9/9 that destroys 3 permanents as well though
The other poster was talking about Terastodon. You often blow up some of your own permanents to get the extra elephants, so dying to plow isn't a huge issue.
Other options: I don't think this deck puts enough creatures into play to run Craterhoof. When I played NO Bant I used Hornet Queen as a second target since it is castable and 5 deathtouch flyers is great against a lot of decks.
A new NO deck that aims to fix whatever problems NO decks normally has but fails to see that the deck still has to win in the same way as every other NO deck, effectively changing nothing. Awesome.
The problem w/ NO-decks is how they try to win. To fix that problem, you have to be able to win without NO (at which point you don't need NO anymore). What you end up with now is a horrible NO deck (I mean, Elves! just does it better. I win this turn > I win in a couple of turns) or a worse, slower BUG Tempo deck.
no well this deck doesn't scoop to comb and with U and B can do its thing against any deck in the format.
The only terrible marchi here would be Eldrazi seen the list
Yes, except it probably does it a full turn slower than anything it tries to compete with. It's nice that the deck has some counters, but I can't see a Storm deck caring about that (let alone a 3 mana pseudo-hatebear that does not stop their combo).
It's a worse NO deck than Elves!
It's a worse tempo deck than BUG Delver.
It's a worse prison deck than D&T.
And Edric is just stupid in a deck that runs about as many creatures as every other deck out there and less than the decks where you'd probably need it most (making it useless).
But hey, don't let me piss on your parade. Good luck to you and I'll stand corrected when you manage to reach the DtB section.
What a pissy troll fest.
If you don't have anything worthwhile to contribute to this thread, why bother posting in it?
Your post also makes it abundantly clear that you have no idea what the hell is the whole point of the developmental section. So go netdeck something instead since that's clearly your inclination.
Yeah, well, you can probably go piss off to netdecking too (I lol'd, by the way), you're not helping the deck in any form or way either. This thread is better off wasting a lot of time and effort only to come up short in the end. How dare you try to speed that process along so people can spend their precious time on useful things rather than this magical chistmasland, you silly bastard, you Jon Snow of The Source?
Oh wait, I'm doing it again.
Excuse me. This deck is a brilliant marvel of deckdesign and absolutely solves any flaw any previous iteration had. Sparkles, glitters and rainbows. Criticism and reality checks are bad. There, the deck is helped. Expect it in a T8 near you soon!
@Captain Hammer: Let me share something with you. Maybe it'll help you understand where I'm coming from and perhaps even teach you something in the process. A couple of years ago I dabbled with a rogue NO list of my own. Right here on The Source. Turned out it was horrible. And that's a fine conclusion to come to. You know who the first person was that suggested that the deck should be killed? Me. Without any bitching, no hard feelings whatsoever. It just was the inevitable outcome of the list so I decided to pull the plug as soon as I realised that. It's what had to be done, I was perfectly OK with that. For reference, here's a link to the thread:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...ock&highlight=
The point I'm trying to make is this: It's fine to want to brew but for fuck sake, be realistic and don't try to turn it into something it isn't. Magical Christmaslanding doesn't make a deck viable. To brew a contender you have to be brutally honest and critical. Accept that you can come to a conclusion you rather wouldn't come to, but never settle for anything less than the best. Debate. Be critical. Try to pick every fucking nit you can. Identify and troubleshoot every possible flaw, consider every possible angle. How do you think the current DtBs came to be? It sure as shit wasn't through some casual la-di-da approach.
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