Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: RUgx Punishing Fire/Dack Fayden midrange-ish decks

  1. #1
    Member

    Join Date

    Dec 2014
    Location

    Philly area
    Posts

    97

    RUgx Punishing Fire/Dack Fayden midrange-ish decks

    There's a whole class of decks that aren't really represented by any threads that are pretty fun to play and possibly competitive when piloted by players better than I am. The core consists of three cards:


    PFire+Grove is good against decks like delver, death and taxes, aluren, infect, and miracles. Dack Fayden is, quite frankly, a legacy fringe-playable planeswalker good against things with artifacts and any time he can ultimate. Together, they form a card advantage engine in the mid to late game. Is this gameplan better than Shardless Agent or Painful Truths? Maybe, although the real answer is that it's probably metagame dependent.

    Some sample decklists that people have played:
    UR Punishing Thing: http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=21265&iddeck=162860
    4c: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/477145#paper
    Pyroloam: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...-URBG-PyroLoam
    And I remember there being at least one contraption involving the above core cards, Pulse of the Fields, and the countertop package during the dark days of Treasure Cruise or Dig Through Time.

    Anyone try this kind of deck? Any success with something?

  2. #2
    Joe Cool Above All
    HSCK's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2007
    Posts

    664

    Re: RUgx Punishing Fire/Dack Fayden midrange-ish decks

    Pyro Opposition

    Creatures: 11
    1 Baleful Strix/Snapcaster Mage
    2 True-Name Nemesis
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Young Pyromancer

    Planeswalkers: 2
    3 Dack Fayden

    Enchantments: 3
    3 Opposition

    Spells: 22
    1 Counterspell
    3 Abrupt Decay
    3 Cabal Therapy
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Punishing Fire
    4 Force of Will

    Lands: 20
    3 Grove of the Burnwillows
    1 Bayou
    2 Tropical Island
    3 Volcanic Island
    3 Underground Sea
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Misty Rainforest


    This is a deck I'm going to be testing soon that fits into the Blue Pfire mold.

  3. #3

    Re: RUgx Punishing Fire/Dack Fayden midrange-ish decks

    I have been thinking about a similar deck. I dont think opposition has a place in this deck, at least mot three. I think TNN is weak as a beater here since all your creatures would die to -1/-1 effects. Maybe goyf or angler in that spot.


    Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk

  4. #4
    Member

    Join Date

    Jul 2013
    Location

    Texas
    Posts

    1,184

    Re: RUgx Punishing Fire/Dack Fayden midrange-ish decks

    couple disjointed thoughts on these decks:

    1) How good is PF really? In the loam decks where it gets the most mileage, they have lots of other removal/lock, plus a better way to dig for both halves of the combo. To me the chances you're going to assemble the machine in time for it to be relevant against many decks are not nearly as high as the times when you are just playing it as a bad Shock and never see a grove all game or Grove itself monkeys with your mana base. I played a non-punishing Jund deck for a few weeks recently and I never want to try PF in that deck. I just don't think there are enough Delver/SFM decks to make it worthwhile. Elves is probably too fast (and has DRS), Infect can win before its relevant, D&T has wasteland, thalia, mom to deal with it, Eldrazi is way bigger, and its harder to grind out Miracles now because of Mentor.

    2) On the other hand, putting red removal into the BUG goodstuff shell is probably a smart idea, provided you can dodge Blood Moon. I just think Bolt/K-command is probably better. That's what I was playing in Jund and it does a good job of letting you nuke early threats while having an out to Chalice and some recursion.

    3) Seems like most of the differences here are at the top end, with Jace in one deck, Opposition in another, Thing in the Ice (to an extent). I actually quite like the Punishing Pyro idea, but I don't think opposition is as good a pay off as something like, say, an Intuition/Dread Return package. Any consideration to trying that?

  5. #5
    Joe Cool Above All
    HSCK's Avatar
    Join Date

    Sep 2007
    Posts

    664

    Re: RUgx Punishing Fire/Dack Fayden midrange-ish decks

    I hadn't thought of Intuition Dread Return, but it's something I'd definitely be willing to try. I've loved playing Opposition in various brews the last few months as it locks up games against decks like Lands and Death and Taxes I'd normally have trouble with. Fire+Dack+Pyro is something I've always wanted to try. Angler vs. TNN is definitely a good point, Angler can easily feed off any Dack in play as well but TNN is better against Miracles typically.

  6. #6
    Member

    Join Date

    Dec 2014
    Location

    Philly area
    Posts

    97

    Re: RUgx Punishing Fire/Dack Fayden midrange-ish decks

    Quote Originally Posted by maharis View Post
    How good is PF really? In the loam decks where it gets the most mileage, they have lots of other removal/lock, plus a better way to dig for both halves of the combo. To me the chances you're going to assemble the machine in time for it to be relevant against many decks are not nearly as high as the times when you are just playing it as a bad Shock and never see a grove all game or Grove itself monkeys with your mana base. I played a non-punishing Jund deck for a few weeks recently and I never want to try PF in that deck. I just don't think there are enough Delver/SFM decks to make it worthwhile. Elves is probably too fast (and has DRS), Infect can win before its relevant, D&T has wasteland, thalia, mom to deal with it, Eldrazi is way bigger, and its harder to grind out Miracles now because of Mentor.
    PFire is actually pretty great against basically every deck you just mentioned except Eldrazi, but it's not like bolt is exactly an all-star in that matchup, either. Legacy is either X/1s, X/2s, or things with 4+ toughness. The only remotely commonly played exception I can think of is Leovold and a Jace that was immediately brainstormed.

    To me, the real cost of playing PFire is the effect it has on your manabase and inevitability. It makes you into the control deck in nearly every matchup which is probably okay.

    Finally, the PFire is most definitely in aggro loam (3 PFire, 3 Grove) and it has as tough time digging for a part of the combo as some blue-splash deck, if not worse. Knight finds Grove and nothing else. Loam, well, loams. Brainstorm, Ponder, and whatever else finds either half of the combo but not as a tutor. A blue deck is probably on-par with aggro loam for finding the combo as aggro loam is.

  7. #7
    Member

    Join Date

    May 2015
    Location

    PDX
    Posts

    2,477

    Re: RUgx Punishing Fire/Dack Fayden midrange-ish decks

    You should check out the TITI thread, there is a list for U/Rg P-Fire/Dack/TITI that has been putting up decent results. As far as I know it is the only deck using P-Fire/Dack and getting some decent top8s.

  8. #8
    Member

    Join Date

    Jul 2013
    Location

    Texas
    Posts

    1,184

    Re: RUgx Punishing Fire/Dack Fayden midrange-ish decks

    Quote Originally Posted by HSCK View Post
    I hadn't thought of Intuition Dread Return, but it's something I'd definitely be willing to try. I've loved playing Opposition in various brews the last few months as it locks up games against decks like Lands and Death and Taxes I'd normally have trouble with. Fire+Dack+Pyro is something I've always wanted to try. Angler vs. TNN is definitely a good point, Angler can easily feed off any Dack in play as well but TNN is better against Miracles typically.
    Opposition/Pyromancer with this synergy is definitely cool, I just feel like there would be a fair amount of times when you can't find/stick a Pyromancer and Opposition is a dud. Definitely interested in hearing how it goes though.

    Quote Originally Posted by mgrinshpon View Post
    PFire is actually pretty great against basically every deck you just mentioned except Eldrazi, but it's not like bolt is exactly an all-star in that matchup, either. Legacy is either X/1s, X/2s, or things with 4+ toughness. The only remotely commonly played exception I can think of is Leovold and a Jace that was immediately brainstormed.

    To me, the real cost of playing PFire is the effect it has on your manabase and inevitability. It makes you into the control deck in nearly every matchup which is probably okay.

    Finally, the PFire is most definitely in aggro loam (3 PFire, 3 Grove) and it has as tough time digging for a part of the combo as some blue-splash deck, if not worse. Knight finds Grove and nothing else. Loam, well, loams. Brainstorm, Ponder, and whatever else finds either half of the combo but not as a tutor. A blue deck is probably on-par with aggro loam for finding the combo as aggro loam is.
    Hm, we have the same conclusion in a way. My feeling is that there are fewer games that PF & Grove will win for you vs. games where the Groves will twist your manabase too much for you to get going. Legacy is such a tight format that recurring PF just once can be a game-winning play, but decks like Elves and Infect have the ability to win before you can get that online. D&T is probably more susceptible but then again we are a 4-color spell deck which is what they target.

    With Jund, I felt that being able to hold up Bolt on turn 1 on the play was better at winning games than potentially recurring my Shock. Hitting their Mom, Hierarch, DRS, Glistener Elf, or Eldrazi Mimic at their EOT, then being able to deploy something else on turn 2 was good. This deck might be a little slower (and also can play 1 cmc counterspells, though not many of them hit T1 creatures).

    Anyway. Maybe I'm wrong and the value of the recursion and the Dack engine is good enough. Testing will bear that out.

  9. #9

    Re: RUgx Punishing Fire/Dack Fayden midrange-ish decks

    I actually saw this deck and decided to run for exactly a couple of months. I fell in love with it!

    It has everything. You can go full aggro with Y Pyro and you can go controlish with D Fayden or Jayce. It's a very versatile deck and the only (really) bad matchup I found it was Eldrazi.

    I tested with around 300 games on Cockatrice. I got moreless 60% winrate. Tho, I'm still learning it.

    What do you guys think? :)


    LINK: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/834456#paper

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)