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Thread: Jund Flow or like I would call it 'NO Flow'

  1. #1

    Jund Flow or like I would call it 'NO Flow'

    http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=13728&d=280930&f=LE

    On a event with a lot of players, this guy top'ed 8 the event with a rather strange deck.

    After examinating the deck, it looks really fun and promising.

    I ordered most of the cards (have most of them), but I do have some questions about the list:

    - Bind: how far is this card relevant? Are you going to use it purely to 'counter' fetchlands? Or does it have different uses?
    - Bane of Progress: against what kind of decks do you use him? Miracles? To force them to use Top and eat the CB?
    - Woodfall Primus: same about this guy, I only see his use against Omnitell.

    For the rest cool deck, a bit a like Nic Fit. Turn 2 or 3, control with Destructive Flow. Turn 3 or 4, NO for a big badass to finish the game. In the meantime controlling with discard, AD, Deed and Flow.

    Joonas Palsio, are you here to give comments?
    Last edited by Xod; 10-19-2016 at 08:17 AM.

  2. #2

    Re: Jund Flow or like I would call it 'NO Flow'

    4x Sylvan Ranger instead of Veteran Explorer...seems interesting. I guess Ranger is more synergistic with Flow than Explorer for sure. Pretty cool.
    Quote Originally Posted by Acclimation View Post
    I about died from laughter when I was watching my feature match and the commentators called Tinfins a difficult and challenging deck.

    I'm not saying it's the easiest deck to play, but the plan is so linear that I could probably get white girl wasted and still beat people with the deck.
    Quote Originally Posted by maharis View Post
    Imagine the trauma of a man who has seen Mom into Crusader enough to mainboard three Cabal Pits.

  3. #3

    Re: Jund Flow or like I would call it 'NO Flow'

    Quote Originally Posted by Claymore View Post
    4x Sylvan Ranger instead of Veteran Explorer...seems interesting. I guess Ranger is more synergistic with Flow than Explorer for sure. Pretty cool.
    I've been very interested by this deck as well and have been messing with it too so I am glad to see a post for it.

    I prefer adding the vet. explorers over ranger for the nic fit value but I think the rangers are here to get around chalice on 1. Otherwise, the deck is out of natural order targets. Here is the list I have am working on.


    //Lands:
    4 Bloodstained mire
    6 Forest
    3 Mountain
    4 Swamp
    4 Wooded Foothilts
    3 ghost quarter
    //Creatures:
    1 Dragonlord Atarka
    4 deathrite shaman
    4 Sylvan Ranger
    1 thragtusk
    2 birds of paradise
    1 Gaea's Revenge
    //Inst./Sorc.
    3 abrupt decay
    4 cabal therapy
    3 thoughtseize
    2 kolgahans command
    3 Natural Order
    2 duress
    //Encht./Art.
    3 Destructive Flow
    2 Pernicious deed
    3 Sensei's div. top

  4. #4

    Re: Jund Flow or like I would call it 'NO Flow'

    Quote Originally Posted by Xod View Post
    http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=13728&d=280930&f=LE

    On a event with a lot of players, this guy top'ed 8 the event with a rather strange deck.

    After examinating the deck, it looks really fun and promising.

    I ordered most of the cards (have most of them), but I do have some questions about the list:

    - Bind: how far is this card relevant? Are you going to use it purely to 'counter' fetchlands? Or does it have different uses?
    - Bane of Progress: against what kind of decks do you use him? Miracles? To force them to use Top and eat the CB?
    - Woodfall Primus: same about this guy, I only see his use against Omnitell.

    For the rest cool deck, a bit a like Nic Fit. Turn 2 or 3, control with Destructive Flow. Turn 3 or 4, NO for a big badass to finish the game. In the meantime controlling with discard, AD, Deed and Flow.

    Joonas Palsio, are you here to give comments?
    I think it was counter target Belcher against me in one case or something like that.
    "Everything is better topless"

  5. #5
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    Re: Jund Flow or like I would call it 'NO Flow'

    Looks like he top 8'ed with it again. Smaller event this time, 49 players. The only change was -Bind, +Garruk Relentless.

  6. #6

    Re: Jund Flow or like I would call it 'NO Flow'

    Funny, exactly how I play it now too. Except for Progenitus instead of the Wurm. Swords is otherwise to brutal.

  7. #7

    Re: Jund Flow or like I would call it 'NO Flow'

    Is anyone still playing or brewing this Deck?

  8. #8

    Re: Jund Flow or like I would call it 'NO Flow'

    looking to print some proxies and try it out sooner or later. definitely looks spicy!
    sylvan library/mirri's guile are auto inclusion probably here. looks good also as blood moon shell either MD or SB

  9. #9

    Re: Jund Flow or like I would call it 'NO Flow'

    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/850993#paper

    I been play testing a version of this and its a fun good deck.

    I don't know if I agree with the inclusion of green suns in the link.

    Also like that its got a surprise factor and is mostly reprinted cards (Low cost)

  10. #10

    Re: Jund Flow or like I would call it 'NO Flow'

    Quote Originally Posted by menph View Post
    looking to print some proxies and try it out sooner or later. definitely looks spicy!
    sylvan library/mirri's guile are auto inclusion probably here. looks good also as blood moon shell either MD or SB
    The problem would be that Blood Moon and Destructive Flow already overlap so much.
    That's one problem I see with this list, I can't really articulate why Destructive Flow is better (or worse) than Blood Moon.
    Does anyone with experience playing this deck have any opinion on this?
    I can't believe x4 Sylvan Ranger is legacy playable but it seems to work

  11. #11

    Re: Jund Flow or like I would call it 'NO Flow'

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    The problem would be that Blood Moon and Destructive Flow already overlap so much.
    That's one problem I see with this list, I can't really articulate why Destructive Flow is better (or worse) than Blood Moon.
    Does anyone with experience playing this deck have any opinion on this?
    I can't believe x4 Sylvan Ranger is legacy playable but it seems to work
    Never tried it out yet, but I think it isn't better than blood moon, just very funny to play and resolve it on t2 ;)

    My suggestion to include also blood moon is to increase the chances to have a heavy piece of disruption available by t2. Same reason why GSZ make sense to me here

  12. #12

    Re: Jund Flow or like I would call it 'NO Flow'

    Bloodmoon shuts off our access to use the color fixing of fetches. Bloodmoon also less effective vs. red decks or decks that have red in them. Blood moon is mostly for mono-red decks.

  13. #13

    Re: Jund Flow or like I would call it 'NO Flow'

    I really like destructive flow but the rest of the deck needs to be able to beat dnt/elves/dragon stumpy/miracles/show and tell etc. where flow is not great. Moon doesn't help in these matches.

    @Lmtg: Also the deck does nothing without natural order so im not sure why it's only running 3. I'd move ruric thar to the main since the combo matchup looks like garbage and 6 mana in this deck is very doable turn 4 or 5 if you need to hard cast it.

    Edit: Sylvan ranger makes me sad.

  14. #14

    Re: Jund Flow or like I would call it 'NO Flow'

    Quote Originally Posted by Lmtg View Post
    Bloodmoon shuts off our access to use the color fixing of fetches. Bloodmoon also less effective vs. red decks or decks that have red in them. Blood moon is mostly for mono-red decks.
    I didn't mean 'why is Destructive Flow better or worse than Blood Moon in a 3-color Natural Order deck?', what I was trying to ask is 'If I am going to play a 3 mana enchantment that attacks a meta of nonbasic lands, then why is a Destructive Flow deck better than a Blood Moon deck?'

    Possible answers are
    1. There are decks with low color requirements that can still cast spells under a blood moon but Destructive Flow prevents them from ever getting enough lands to do this (Tron in modern would be an example)
    2. Being able to play 3 colours gives you access to better supporting spells than a mono red Moon deck

    In legacy we have decks like RG Lands, where Moon is clearly better in that matchup because it disables all of their utility and combo potential, while they can play around Flow with Loam/Exploration. So in what matchups is point 1 actually true? And how valid is point 2 when you apparently need to play junk like 4x Sylvan Ranger to support GBR spells off of an entirely basic manabase?

    I really like the look of this deck and I want it to be good because it would be an appealing budget option, I'm just not convinced at the moment. Maybe the optimal Destructive Flow deck doesn't even have Natural Order in it, who knows?
    Last edited by kombatkiwi; 02-23-2018 at 02:42 AM.

  15. #15

    Re: Jund Flow or like I would call it 'NO Flow'

    Sylvan ranger is mana fixing . the deck is mainly green and this helps enable the 3 color alot. Also food for natural order, which makes me :) when I play NO.
    Just because a card doesn't see legacy play on the normal doesn't mean its bad. I use to play cryptic command very well in legacy
    Natural order should be a 4 of I agree
    Ruric thar to the main is a meta call, dragon does well against agro decks
    dnt plays port and wasteland (and I can decay a vial)
    elves plays bayou and cradle
    dragon stompy and show and tell plays sol lands
    miracles needs every land every turn
    Name one deck that plays only basics?

    blood moon vs flow. Better? yes, useless no. try playing around a flow dropped turn 2 on the draw or better yet 2 flows any turn.
    Wonder if going on the draw game 1 is better because of cabal therapy and/or exposing a basic land play?
    Have you tried play testing the deck??

    I have found the creator of this deck on social media and would reach out to him, but I don't think he speaks english.
    https://www.facebook.com/joonas.palsio
    see if the link works.

    I just don't know about green suns zenith. Makes me wonder what else would be good to tutor up.
    Is it a budget deck? are there more expensive choices that play better? Just happens alot of this is reprinted at the moment. Can be played without a badland, but rarely you need to fetch it to fix no black source turn one for discard because of red fetches.

    Bind is removed in later builds
    bane/woodfall- not sure so far.

  16. #16

    Re: Jund Flow or like I would call it 'NO Flow'

    The new prismatic vista card makes me want to build this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Laser Brains View Post
    With the printing of Gigantosaurus, Thrashing Brontodon and Steel Leaf Champion the deck has evolved from good to very competitive. Anyway, give it a few play tests if you are interested and let me know what you think.

    Winter Maze
    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    With veteran explorer I know that I 100% will not enjoy a 30 minute grindfest against someone who can barely afford dual lands and believes that their deck can cast a 10 mana 8/8.

  17. #17
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    Re: Jund Flow or like I would call it 'NO Flow'

    Quote Originally Posted by kinda View Post
    The new prismatic vista card makes me want to build this.
    DRS is going to be very hard to replace. OTOH, without DRS, most decks will be even less able to cope with Flow.

    Btw, if anyone from a year ago happens to read this, Joonas certainly speaks English. He's a Finn and basically all Finns have at least conversational English.

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