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Thread: [Deck] Vial Goblins

  1. #1781

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by 1GoblinLackey View Post
    I wanna address a couple of comments just made regarding our combo matchups.

    I've got 500 matches logged in MTGO leagues as of today (including a 5-0 today, woop woop). My datasheet's in my signature. MTGO is combo hell, and I think I've learned how to beat the combo decks more than anything else on MTGO. To be terribly honest, our combo matchups are legitimately better than we're willing to give ourselves credit for. Storm and Reanimator are the most popular decks on MTGO, and guess what? I'm just over 50% against Reanimator, and under 50% against Storm. The only combo matchup that I've been doing atrociously bad against is Sneak and Show (35%), but I've just had a lotta bad beats. I'm over 50% against Depths, solidly positive vs Dredge, etc. Being 40-55% against a wide range of combo is...really not bad. For the majority of my play, I've been playing RB builds with Cabal Therapies in the board, but sometimes I've gone without. I LOVE Therapy in the deck, and if you've got a lot of combo and control, it's strong, but maindeck therapies opens you up to a lot of problems. You get weaker against Miracles, and significantly worse against the Stompy decks. I'm got a 14 win record against mono red stompy, and 16-2 against Eldrazi. Without the strengths of the conventional builds, you're gonna lose some points in what should be our byes.

    Also, I cannot emphasize enough how important it is to DIVERSIFY YOUR HATE. Don't be 1-dimensional. Hit from every angle possible.
    I think you are underestimating the impact of variance in such relatively small sample size (love your datasheet btw). It shows you at lower rate vs Elves, which is indeed a MUCH MUCH better matchup for us than Storm or BR Reanimator.
    However, I completely agree on the BR build featuring Cabal Therapies (AMAZING card) & Squad dramatically improving our matchup vs Storm. I believe it actually turns it into a stone cold 50/50.

    Any thoughts you can share about your Reanimator matchup experience and what do you usually bring from the board in order to deal with it and bang such solid results so far? How do you diversify your hate and what/if you use any on-the-board hate vs them?

  2. #1782

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Spiffy View Post
    I think you are underestimating the impact of variance in such relatively small sample size (love your datasheet btw). It shows you at lower rate vs Elves, which is indeed a MUCH MUCH better matchup for us than Storm or BR Reanimator.
    However, I completely agree on the BR build featuring Cabal Therapies (AMAZING card) & Squad dramatically improving our matchup vs Storm. I believe it actually turns it into a stone cold 50/50.

    Any thoughts you can share about your Reanimator matchup experience and what do you usually bring from the board in order to deal with it and bang such solid results so far? How do you diversify your hate and what/if you use any on-the-board hate vs them?
    You're totally right to mention sample size. I do think I've got a pretty good sense of the Storm and Reanimator matchups (they're my most common matchups), but the other stuff can be attributed to variance for sure. My Elves data is a little skewed by playing against Julian Knab a lot (arguably the best Elves player), so that's definitely a factor haha.

    So with my most current build I bring in: 2 Surgical, 1 Tormod's Crypt, 1 Relic, 2 Thorn, 1 Stingscourger, 1 Earwig Squad. When I have discard spells, I obviously bring all of those in. I also usually play a 2nd Tormod's Crypt over Relic, which is a pretty massive difference against Reanimator. I cut 3 Ringleader, 2 Gempalm, 1 Sharpshooter, 1 Mogg Fanatic, 1 Chainwhirler. The reason to cut Whirler is that they frequently discard your Whirler, and then Reanimate it, which can cause some serious headaches. Leave Trashmaster as a quick clock that can potentially let you beat an Elesh Norn. In terms of playing the matchup, MULLIGAN TO HATE. If your hand doesn't stop them from making a turn 2 Griselbrand, mulligan. If they keep 7, I might just mulligan to Surgical or Crypt to be honest. Don't try to race them, it's not a real thing you can do without disrupting them once. Once you stop them from going off the first time, you do want to kill them relatively quickly (to shut off future reanimates/grisel activations), but getting to that step is secondary to "living past turn 2".
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    Post DRS Goblins MTGO Leagues Only Data

  3. #1783

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by 1GoblinLackey View Post
    You're totally right to mention sample size. I do think I've got a pretty good sense of the Storm and Reanimator matchups (they're my most common matchups), but the other stuff can be attributed to variance for sure. My Elves data is a little skewed by playing against Julian Knab a lot (arguably the best Elves player), so that's definitely a factor haha.

    So with my most current build I bring in: 2 Surgical, 1 Tormod's Crypt, 1 Relic, 2 Thorn, 1 Stingscourger, 1 Earwig Squad. When I have discard spells, I obviously bring all of those in. I also usually play a 2nd Tormod's Crypt over Relic, which is a pretty massive difference against Reanimator. I cut 3 Ringleader, 2 Gempalm, 1 Sharpshooter, 1 Mogg Fanatic, 1 Chainwhirler. The reason to cut Whirler is that they frequently discard your Whirler, and then Reanimate it, which can cause some serious headaches. Leave Trashmaster as a quick clock that can potentially let you beat an Elesh Norn. In terms of playing the matchup, MULLIGAN TO HATE. If your hand doesn't stop them from making a turn 2 Griselbrand, mulligan. If they keep 7, I might just mulligan to Surgical or Crypt to be honest. Don't try to race them, it's not a real thing you can do without disrupting them once. Once you stop them from going off the first time, you do want to kill them relatively quickly (to shut off future reanimates/grisel activations), but getting to that step is secondary to "living past turn 2".
    Hey man! Your spreading sheet is crazy, I was just looking at it. Thats some commitment, congratulations on that!!!

    I noticed on your last decklist only 3 ringleaders, and its the 5-0 list. Looks like it worked. Also, I noticed you dont use black leyline in any of the lists. Is that a particular reason for that?

    Another note, now about the Reanimator Matchup, when I play with my Zombardment list, discard is usually boarded out... You bring in all the hate possible, play them and let them deal with it while you start your clock. You cant dilute your deck so much, sometimes you name entomb and they have looting, you name reanimate and they have exhume, anyway... mulligan to hate and let them deal with it.

    Im sitting on a list that im bringing together on paper, missing only the stronghold, vials and lackeys now (will probably borrow to play with it today, I hope...). The list is based on the CA and lower curve list by jrw and tinkered to work on my current metagame, with some considerations I also found here.

    BR Goblins

    Main:
    4 Aether Vial
    3 Badlands
    3 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Cavern of Souls
    2 Earwig Squad
    3 Gempalm Incinerator
    1 Goblin Chainwhirler
    3 Goblin Cratermaker
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Goblin Matron
    1 Goblin Piledriver
    3 Goblin Ringleader
    1 Goblin Trashmaster
    2 Grenzo, Havoc Raiser
    1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    3 Mogg Fanatic
    3 Mogg War Marshal
    3 Mountain
    3 Rishadan Port
    1 Skirk Prospector
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Volrath's Stronghold
    4 Wasteland
    3 Wooded Foothills

    Sideboard:
    3 Cabal Therapy
    1 Faerie Macabre
    1 Goblin Trashmaster
    4 Leyline of the Void
    1 Oath of Ghouls
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    2 Karakas

    Maybe piledriver can become a second stingscourger maindeck because of the heavy reanimator/depths/show and tell presence on my meta. Looks like parking a vial on 2 vs those decks is the best option. Warren Weirding was another option, but it is much weaker because its a sorcery and you cant vial it in. I have only goldfished with the deck and it looks pretty fun and strong!

  4. #1784
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    [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Has anyone done testing around Blood Sun? I was wrecked by it recently when it came down T1 and I had a hand full of fetches and I was really surprised at its power. It does a lot of the cool stuff that Moon also does and at the same price, but Sun also cantrips. The cantrip is what intrigues me because that effect makes the card much more maindeckable. It helps Goblinís grindy games.

    Now there are a few weakness to playing Sun. Most importantly youíll have to build a mana base without Cavern or Fetches, but that should be fine. Itís weaker in some MUs than Moon but itís pretty conditional. In Eldrazi for instance, Sun is worse against Cloudpost but better against Vesuva. Itís worse against City of Traitors but better against Eye of Ugin. Either way, youíre still drawing a card off of it which you would not with Moon.

    Interested to hear thoughts and experiences.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by jrw1985; 05-09-2019 at 05:51 PM.

  5. #1785

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    Has anyone done testing around Blood Sun? I was wrecked by it recently when it came down T1 and I had a hand full of fetches and I was really surprised at its power. It does a lot of the cool stuff that Moon also does and at the same price, but Sun also cantrips. The cantrip is what intrigues me because that effect makes the card much more maindeckable. It helps Goblinís grindy games.

    Now there are a few weakness to playing Sun. Most importantly youíll have to build a mana base without Cavern or Fetches, but that should be fine. Itís weaker in some MUs than Moon but itís pretty conditional. In Eldrazi for instance, Sun is worse against Cloudpost but better against Vesuva. Itís worse against City of Traitors but better against Eye of Ugin. Either way, youíre still drawing a card off of it which you would not with Moon.

    Interested to hear thoughts and experiences.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    It's an interesting suggestion.
    I think it's not compatible with goblin builds that play fetchlands.
    It's not too big of a nonbo with cavern: if you play Cavern before Blood Sun then your cavern is totally unaffected. If Blood Sun is already on the battlefield before Cavern then your Cavern just enters as Wastes (I'm assuming that interaction is the same as with Blood Moon)

    One additional thing that Blood Sun does not stop is the lifegain ability of Grove.
    It's also less effective against multicolour fair decks like Grixis/RUG Delver, and Cloudpost, like you mentioned. (Or even the non-post versions of Eldrazi)

    I think it's a possible consideration for the sideboard in the same vein as blood moon but I don't think it's ever maindeckable

  6. #1786

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Hi there,
    Goblin matron will be reprinted in modern horizon.
    Looks like we'll see a new era of goblin in modern format.
    Also other new or old goblin will come out in this set very likely

  7. #1787
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Dear Goblin-Friends!
    I am going to play the following list at a local FNM. I would appreciate if an experienced player could tell me some of his thoughts on my deck:

    Lands:
    4 x Wasteland
    4 x Rishadan Port
    4 x Cavern of Souls
    11 x Mountain

    CMC 1:
    4 x Aether Vial
    4 x Goblin Lackey
    1 x Skirk Prospector

    CMC 2:
    4 x Mogg War Marshal
    3 x Goblin Piledriver
    2 x Goblin Cratermaker
    4 x Gempalm Incinerator

    CMC 3:
    4 x Goblin Matron
    4 x Goblin Warchief
    1 x Goblin Sharpshooter

    CMC 4:
    4 x Goblin Ringleader
    1 x Goblin Trashmaster

    CMC 5:
    1 x Siege-Gang Commander

    SIDEBOARD:
    2 x Surgical Extraction
    2 x Relic of Progenitus
    3 x Thorn of Amethyst
    2 x Pyrokinesis
    1 x Goblin Chainwhirler
    2 x Stingscourger
    1 x Goblin Cratermaker
    1 x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
    1 x Lightning Crafter


    Info:
    Stingscourger: I expect some Decks with Griselbrand
    Goblin Cratermaker: I really hate Eldrazi
    Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker: I want to have the option to deal infinite damage
    Lightning Crafter: Combo with Kiki-Jiki


    Thanks a lot!
    Last edited by DerLebkuchenmann; Yesterday at 05:01 AM. Reason: tagging cards ; "some didnt work"

  8. #1788
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by DerLebkuchenmann View Post
    Dear Goblin-Friends!

    Can someone please tell me how to "link in the cards" ?

    Thanks a lot!
    Official link


    To provide a card, or a list of cards (see below) with a tooltip/hyperlink, you need to put {CARDS} before its name and {/CARDS} after it, replacing the { } brackets with the [ ] that are used in this forum.
    Women were the reason I became a monk - and, ah, the reason I switched back... (Morte, from Planescape Troment)

  9. #1789
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Morte View Post
    Official link


    To provide a card, or a list of cards (see below) with a tooltip/hyperlink, you need to put {CARDS} before its name and {/CARDS} after it, replacing the { } brackets with the [ ] that are used in this forum.
    Thanks Morte! I fixed it.

  10. #1790
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by DerLebkuchenmann View Post
    Dear Goblin-Friends!
    I am going to play the following list at a local FNM. I would appreciate if an experienced player could tell me some of his thoughts on my deck:

    Lands:
    4 x Wasteland
    4 x Rishadan Port
    4 x Cavern of Souls
    11 x Mountain

    CMC 1:
    4 x Aether Vial
    4 x Goblin Lackey
    1 x Skirk Prospector

    CMC 2:
    4 x Mogg War Marshal
    3 x Goblin Piledriver
    2 x Goblin Cratermaker
    4 x Gempalm Incinerator

    CMC 3:
    4 x Goblin Matron
    4 x Goblin Warchief
    1 x Goblin Sharpshooter

    CMC 4:
    4 x Goblin Ringleader
    1 x Goblin Trashmaster

    CMC 5:
    1 x Siege-Gang Commander

    SIDEBOARD:
    2 x Surgical Extraction
    2 x Relic of Progenitus
    3 x Thorn of Amethyst
    2 x Pyrokinesis
    1 x Goblin Chainwhirler
    2 x Stingscourger
    1 x Goblin Cratermaker
    1 x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
    1 x Lightning Crafter


    Info:
    Stingscourger: I expect some Decks with Griselbrand
    Goblin Cratermaker: I really hate Eldrazi
    Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker: I want to have the option to deal infinite damage
    Lightning Crafter: Combo with Kiki-Jiki


    Thanks a lot!
    You will be fine with the decklist you posted. It has all the core elements that the deck needs in order to work.
    If you know what decks you are likely to face, you could do some fine-tuning, depending on what decks you want to gain %s against.

    Based on my personal preferences (which dont have to match yours and which aren't necessarily good for your local meta) I would consider the following changes:

    * -1 Mogg War Marshal, +1 Cratermaker (because I think it's a better card by itself)
    * move Sharpshooter to the maindeck and Chainwhirler to the sideboard, because Chainwhirler requires little to no setup in order to work
    * OR move Shaprshooter to the sideboard and add 1 Sparksmith
    * if you want sideboard cards vs. Griselbrand, I think 1 Stingscourger is enough as a silver-bullet. I would cut the 2nd one for Karakas
    * I would cut the Kiki-Crafter combo entirely, because it doesn't really improve any MU. There are a lot of versatile SB cards that work in a variety of MU - I like to play 3-4 Chalice of the Void in unknown meta, for example.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  11. #1791
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    I don't play Goblins so I have no idea if R/B Goblins wants a Gempalm Incinerator that doesn't cycle and can be countered, but gets on the battlefield and can hit planeswalkers.


  12. #1792

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott View Post
    I don't play Goblins so I have no idea if R/B Goblins wants a Gempalm Incinerator that doesn't cycle and can be countered, but gets on the battlefield and can hit planeswalkers.

    I did a thing.

    Munitions Expert (RB)
    Creature-Goblin
    Flash
    When Munitions Expert enters the battlefield, you may have it deal damage to target creature or planeswalker equal to the number of goblins you control.

    Pros:
    ē Extra Body Count
    o T1 Lackey T2 kill x/2s
    o Deals 1 damage on an empty board
    o More resilient to removal
    o Additional Blocker
    ē Synergies
    o Repeatable with Kiki-Jiki
    o Stronger Piledrivers
    o Stronger Trashmaster
    o Stronger Gempalms
    o Stronger Skirk Prospector
    ē Targets Planeswalkers
    o Better used to target creatures blocking for planeswalkers and attacking the planeswalker
    o Can lower a planeswalker enough to sneak in damage to finish them off
    o Most Legacy Planeswalkers start with low loyalty, therefore you do not need many goblins out to kill them outright.
    Cons:
    ē Mana Restriction
    o ~10-15% of your games will not have BR by turn 2 if you mulligan to 5 (Not taking into account for Vial) 23 Land, 4 Waste, 4 Port, 4 Cavern, 6 Fetch, 3 Mountain, 2 Badlands
    Y 87
    0 58
    1 15
    2 14

    N 13
    2 13


    ē Warchief Does not Lower the cost
    ē Not as reliably uncounterable

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