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Thread: [Deck] Vial Goblins

  1. #1101
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Hi fellow warchiefs,

    With this post, I would like to share an anecdote from my last weeks experiences. All started, because my win ratio was dropping, and I couldn't understand why. Except so minor changes, like testing Goblin Chirurgeon instead of Prospector, or a 4-2 Tarfire/Gempalm split compared to a 3-3. I wasn't changing much so, I gave a few leagues a try to make some tests.

    Out of the last 20 online matches, the record was quite reassuring with 15 victories for 5 losses. Losses are to RUG Delver, Miracles -_-, Omnishow, Punishing Thieves and 4C Control.

    Opponents were:
    2 Turbo Depths
    2 Miracles
    2 Death & Taxes
    2 Elves
    Dredge
    BR Reanimator
    UB Reanimator
    Show & Tell
    Omnishow
    Burn
    RUG Delver
    UR Delver
    4C Control
    Maverick
    Punishing Thieves
    Goblin Stompy (we shouldn't fight each other :-/)

    This is quite a good meta for us. There are so many creatures decks. It appears, that I was losing more to Death & Taxes than reasonable, Miracles were hard, and BUG mid-range always a challenge.

    I asked privately to some of you for your advice, and could realize that I was over-boarding against fair creatures decks and was too much relying on Surgical Extraction to exile the cards that bother me. It was diluting the deck. Most of the time, having 2 more goblins to draw were just better and saved my ass more, than using a randomly Surgical, because there were just a nice target. Which sucks, because if the target does not come, it's a goblin less in our hand.

    It was a nice rediscover of the deck, because I almost forgot what goblins are good for, which means their synergy. So, I stopped boarding out more than 3-4 goblins against creature decks, and it helped a lot. As an example, against Miracles, I was boarding like this for the last few weeks:

    +2 Surgical (Terminus, StP), +2 Needles (Jace, Engineered Explosives), +2 Pyrokinesis (Mentor)
    -2 PDD, -1 Stingscourger, -1 TSH, -1 Tarfire (3-ofs), -1 MWM

    I took Olaf advice to just board 3 Thalias, because she actually does more job to prevent Mentor to go crazy. Then is Pyrokinesis less needed, and we still keep our card advantage, while slowing their down. Sharpshooter complemented with another removal should be enough to take care of Mentor. Then, all 4 Piledrivers stayed in the party, which is essential to apply more pressure and force them to find and answer, while we focus on the common anti-Miracles tactics, which is to find Matrons into Ringleaders.

    This lack of synergy was also felt against Death & Taxes. I was boarding like this:

    +3 Pyrokinesis, +2 Needle (Mom, Jitte, SFM), +1 TSH
    -3 Piledriver, -1 Stingscourger, -2 Ringleader

    Was Pyrokinesis really needed? With 1 Sharpshooter, 3 Tarfires, 3 Gempalm, 1 SGC, 2 Needles and mana denial, it should be enough to deal with their early turns creatures and prevent them to equip anything. Not boarding Pyrokinesis anymore against them freed 3 more slots and let me keep 3 more goblins, like 2 Ringleaders and another gob, which is always welcome. The board was more stable, there were more blockers and attackers, which, if Thalia or Mom are not on the front, always favor us.

    With this post, I wanted to show, how bad boarding decisions could imply defeats for the same player skills and in the same meta settings. I had the proof, that a high goblin count is our only strength against non-combo decks. It's quite a trivial conclusion, but goblins just don't do well alone, but are strong in multiples. So, don't over-board, this ain't good for goblins.

    I think we can increase our win ratio by adapting our boarding plan, on the play AND on the draw.

    Spread the word!

  2. #1102

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Fourbirr View Post
    Hi fellow warchiefs,

    With this post, I would like to share an anecdote from my last weeks experiences. All started, because my win ratio was dropping, and I couldn't understand why. Except so minor changes, like testing Goblin Chirurgeon instead of Prospector, or a 4-2 Tarfire/Gempalm split compared to a 3-3. I wasn't changing much so, I gave a few leagues a try to make some tests.

    Out of the last 20 online matches, the record was quite reassuring with 15 victories for 5 losses. Losses are to RUG Delver, Miracles -_-, Omnishow, Punishing Thieves and 4C Control.

    Opponents were:
    2 Turbo Depths
    2 Miracles
    2 Death & Taxes
    2 Elves
    Dredge
    BR Reanimator
    UB Reanimator
    Show & Tell
    Omnishow
    Burn
    RUG Delver
    UR Delver
    4C Control
    Maverick
    Punishing Thieves
    Goblin Stompy (we shouldn't fight each other :-/)

    This is quite a good meta for us. There are so many creatures decks. It appears, that I was losing more to Death & Taxes than reasonable, Miracles were hard, and BUG mid-range always a challenge.

    I asked privately to some of you for your advice, and could realize that I was over-boarding against fair creatures decks and was too much relying on Surgical Extraction to exile the cards that bother me. It was diluting the deck. Most of the time, having 2 more goblins to draw were just better and saved my ass more, than using a randomly Surgical, because there were just a nice target. Which sucks, because if the target does not come, it's a goblin less in our hand.

    It was a nice rediscover of the deck, because I almost forgot what goblins are good for, which means their synergy. So, I stopped boarding out more than 3-4 goblins against creature decks, and it helped a lot. As an example, against Miracles, I was boarding like this for the last few weeks:

    +2 Surgical (Terminus, StP), +2 Needles (Jace, Engineered Explosives), +2 Pyrokinesis (Mentor)
    -2 PDD, -1 Stingscourger, -1 TSH, -1 Tarfire (3-ofs), -1 MWM

    I took Olaf advice to just board 3 Thalias, because she actually does more job to prevent Mentor to go crazy. Then is Pyrokinesis less needed, and we still keep our card advantage, while slowing their down. Sharpshooter complemented with another removal should be enough to take care of Mentor. Then, all 4 Piledrivers stayed in the party, which is essential to apply more pressure and force them to find and answer, while we focus on the common anti-Miracles tactics, which is to find Matrons into Ringleaders.

    This lack of synergy was also felt against Death & Taxes. I was boarding like this:

    +3 Pyrokinesis, +2 Needle (Mom, Jitte, SFM), +1 TSH
    -3 Piledriver, -1 Stingscourger, -2 Ringleader

    Was Pyrokinesis really needed? With 1 Sharpshooter, 3 Tarfires, 3 Gempalm, 1 SGC, 2 Needles and mana denial, it should be enough to deal with their early turns creatures and prevent them to equip anything. Not boarding Pyrokinesis anymore against them freed 3 more slots and let me keep 3 more goblins, like 2 Ringleaders and another gob, which is always welcome. The board was more stable, there were more blockers and attackers, which, if Thalia or Mom are not on the front, always favor us.

    With this post, I wanted to show, how bad boarding decisions could imply defeats for the same player skills and in the same meta settings. I had the proof, that a high goblin count is our only strength against non-combo decks. It's quite a trivial conclusion, but goblins just don't do well alone, but are strong in multiples. So, don't over-board, this ain't good for goblins.

    I think we can increase our win ratio by adapting our boarding plan, on the play AND on the draw.

    Spread the word!
    I really think the observation here should be emphasized for newer players. I still have the problem of overboarding a lot, and so my ringleader are quite anemic postboard. I'd say a good rule of thumb might be don't be more than net -5 and over goblins in any fair matchups.

    With regards to specific boarding, I'd still definitely bring in pyrokinesis, but maybe not all 3. If I'm bringing in card disadvantage like Pyro, then cutting ringleaders is even worse, since you can't make up for it as well as normal.

    In your signature you have your current list and some sideboarding plans, I'd like to give some advice.

    Elves: You mention needle for heritage druid; doesn't work because it's a mana ability. Naming Symbiote is correct 90% of the time. Also with elves, I dunno why you'd ever bring in surgical. You're not gonna hit natural order, because if they cast it, you're almost certainly dead. They can also probably fizzle surgical with DRS activations if it ever matters. Containment priest, on the other hand, is fantastic against Elves, because it turns off both natural order and GSZ.

    In your Storm sideboarding, I dunno if pyrokinesis is really worth it. I've liked it against Belcher, but definitely not against ANT. TES I'd say mayyybe. Relics are almost certainly better against ANT as well, they use the graveyard a lot. Maybe you've had good experiences with it though?
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    Post DRS Goblins MTGO Leagues Only Data

  3. #1103
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by 1GoblinLackey View Post
    I really think the observation here should be emphasized for newer players. I still have the problem of overboarding a lot, and so my ringleader are quite anemic postboard. I'd say a good rule of thumb might be don't be more than net -5 and over goblins in any fair matchups.

    With regards to specific boarding, I'd still definitely bring in pyrokinesis, but maybe not all 3. If I'm bringing in card disadvantage like Pyro, then cutting ringleaders is even worse, since you can't make up for it as well as normal.

    In your signature you have your current list and some sideboarding plans, I'd like to give some advice.

    Elves: You mention needle for heritage druid; doesn't work because it's a mana ability. Naming Symbiote is correct 90% of the time. Also with elves, I dunno why you'd ever bring in surgical. You're not gonna hit natural order, because if they cast it, you're almost certainly dead. They can also probably fizzle surgical with DRS activations if it ever matters. Containment priest, on the other hand, is fantastic against Elves, because it turns off both natural order and GSZ.

    In your Storm sideboarding, I dunno if pyrokinesis is really worth it. I've liked it against Belcher, but definitely not against ANT. TES I'd say mayyybe. Relics are almost certainly better against ANT as well, they use the graveyard a lot. Maybe you've had good experiences with it though?
    Some thoughts on overboarding.
    When considering the effects of overboarding, we need to think about the role of ringleader in the matchup. In a lot of fair matchups the game is going to be at least partially about grinding, in which case having a high goblin count for ringleader is important. In other matchups, like Elves and Storm, the role of ringleader is to help us dig for specific cards (sharpshooter, Earwig squad etc.). In that case, overboarding is much less of an issue, as we don't need the same critical mass of cards to be able to grind through opposing interaction.

  4. #1104
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Fourbirr View Post

    This lack of synergy was also felt against Death & Taxes. I was boarding like this:

    +3 Pyrokinesis, +2 Needle (Mom, Jitte, SFM), +1 TSH
    -3 Piledriver, -1 Stingscourger, -2 Ringleader

    Was Pyrokinesis really needed? With 1 Sharpshooter, 3 Tarfires, 3 Gempalm, 1 SGC, 2 Needles and mana denial, it should be enough to deal with their early turns creatures and prevent them to equip anything. Not boarding Pyrokinesis anymore against them freed 3 more slots and let me keep 3 more goblins, like 2 Ringleaders and another gob, which is always welcome. The board was more stable, there were more blockers and attackers, which, if Thalia or Mom are not on the front, always favor us.
    Hi Fourbirr, you bring up a lot of good points!

    Regarding pyrokinesis, I wanted to add some of my thoughts on the card, the Death and Taxes matchup, as well as general deck building philosophy.

    One of the reasons I value cards like pyrokinesis so highly is because they're very tempo positive. You talked a lot about the deck building restrictions that come with playing a synergistic deck like Goblins, and unfortunately not being able to play classic staples means our mana curve is higher than most decks'. After sideboard however, we tend to bring in at least a few non-goblin cards, because of how effective they are against specific decks. Since those cards are unburdened by the previously mentioned restrictions (they're already non-goblins anyways), we want to prioritize low cost, tempo positive cards such as pyrokinesis in order to improve our curve. This is why in my opinion, if you decide that you do want additional removal in the sideboard, pyrokinesis is very likely to be the best option.

    With regards to Death and Taxes, they have a lot of cards that are very problematic for us. I personally like to have a lot of removal against them, but I think how much you need is dependent on your ability to turn the corner quickly. If your plan is to trade one for one and win via left over creatures, you'll probably need more removal as they will have more time to draw threats that you need to answer. If on the other hand your plan involves going over the top (krenko), or turning sideways with Piledrivers and hastelords, you probably only need enough to buy time in the early turns.

  5. #1105
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by 1GoblinLackey View Post
    I really think the observation here should be emphasized for newer players. I still have the problem of overboarding a lot, and so my ringleader are quite anemic postboard. I'd say a good rule of thumb might be don't be more than net -5 and over goblins in any fair matchups.
    Exactly, that's the same conclusion I made. My bad habits were to always want to bring as many cards as possible that could do something against my opponent. Like bringing Surgical almost always, or Pyrokinesis whenever they were creatures in the front. The revelation was to really feel this relative over-boarding difference against fair match-ups since the last few weeks/months and be able to adapt accordingly to increase the win rate.

    With regards to specific boarding, I'd still definitely bring in pyrokinesis, but maybe not all 3. If I'm bringing in card disadvantage like Pyro, then cutting ringleaders is even worse, since you can't make up for it as well as normal.
    I suppose you are still talking about fair decks, not elves or other combo. If then, I agree. Otherwise, Ringleaders are not really needed and Pyrokinesis card disadvantage isn't really relevant, since we don't want to draw goblins, but our SB cards.

    In your signature you have your current list and some sideboarding plans, I'd like to give some advice.
    This sideboard is not accurate anymore. I do not update it on a regular basis.

    This one is up-to-date: https://goo.gl/7ucT1S

    Elves: You mention needle for heritage druid; doesn't work because it's a mana ability.
    Sure, that was a dumb one from old SB thoughts. It's now fixed. Thanks to an elves opponent laughing at me when I named Druid ^^

    Naming Symbiote is correct 90% of the time. Also with elves, I dunno why you'd ever bring in surgical. You're not gonna hit natural order, because if they cast it, you're almost certainly dead. They can also probably fizzle surgical with DRS activations if it ever matters. Containment priest, on the other hand, is fantastic against Elves, because it turns off both natural order and GSZ.
    As Needle targets against Elves, there is also Quirion Ranger and DRS. Anyway, I don't use Containment Priest anymore. Quite a lot of times against elves, I got punished, because I don't board Vials out and still want Lackey to connect after a Pyrokinesis cleaning. I found that 3 Pyrokinesis, 2 Needles were enough.

    In your Storm sideboarding, I dunno if pyrokinesis is really worth it. I've liked it against Belcher, but definitely not against ANT. TES I'd say mayyybe. Relics are almost certainly better against ANT as well, they use the graveyard a lot. Maybe you've had good experiences with it though?
    Against Storm, Pyrokinesis is super important. If they don't find the 20+ damages with Tendrils, they'll try the empty the warren approach. They don't have to make 20 tokens to kill us, storm@6, 12 tokens are enough if they can swing 2 times. Pyrokinesis saved me a couple of times in this situation, won a turn or two to find Sharpshooter, while their hand is empty. Last time I checked, both version have ETW. TES has id MD, ANT in the SB.

    Relics are almost certainly better against ANT as well, they use the graveyard a lot. Maybe you've had good experiences with it though?
    Yes, I had. Relic, Port, Thalia are all MVPs in this MU.

  6. #1106
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Fourbirr View Post
    Last time I checked, both version have ETW. TES has id MD, ANT in the SB.
    TES main plan is to combo T1-T2 with Empty or Ad Nauseam.
    ANT main plan is to combo T2, 3 - whichever with a Past in Flames loop, Tutor chain or Ad Nauseam, or, if can't, Empty.
    This is a very simple explanation, but we do SB differently against these decks because of that.
    Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.

  7. #1107
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    ANT main plan is to combo T2, 3 - whichever with a Past in Flames loop, Tutor chain or Ad Nauseam, or, if can't, Empty.
    Then I suppose, that it's not wrong to board Pyrokinesis in case they would combo to ETW instead of Tendrils. I mean, they have 2 ways to kill us, Tendrils or Empty. So, why not choose to board Pyrok against ANT and be less vulnerable?

  8. #1108
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandro95 View Post
    If on the other hand your plan involves going over the top (krenko), or turning sideways with Piledrivers and hastelords, you probably only need enough to buy time in the early turns.
    Yes, against D&T, I endorse the last one. My approach against them is pretty much like that:

    1) remove all early creatures during their turn (Mom, Thalia, SFM) with tarfires
    -> no creatures, nothing to equip

    2) buy time to find Tin Street, Prospector or Sharpshooter, if not already in hand
    -> In T2, they'll probably look for an equipment with SFM. Let them know we have something that'll answer it.

    3) Meanwhile, try to put a Warchief and Sharpshooter, or Chieftain and Piledriver, although it's unlikely any one them survive. Otherwise, MWM/Gempalm do just well.
    -> grind...

    Chieftain makes a difference in comparison to other classic lists without him, because Piledriver being then a x/3, he won't die to Thalia. Chieftain is one of my favorite creature to tutor midgame, because chances are great that they will have used their StP before on Lackeys, and he will turn the situation to our advantage. My experience was that the deck was doing just fine with a good mass of creatures, like you wrote, and I didn't miss Pyrokinesis. On the contrary, having used Pyrokinesis in D&T matches didn't inevitably secure the victory.

    For now, I would like to test non-pyrokinesis sideboard choices against D&T. I think a creatures heavy deck vs. removals heavy and Pyrokinesis card disadvantage help us more against them. Although it worked for the 3 last times and gave me a nice feeling that the deck can beat them without the help of Pyrokinesis, I cannot tell yet, if that's the right choice. It would need a lot more testing and I'll be glad to keep you informed.

  9. #1109

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Weighing in on sideboarding habits.

    As soon as the first game ends grab your deck not your sideboard. Go through and take out all DEAD cards first. Then grab the sideboard and fill those slots.
    Then if you have any other high impact cards in your sideboard for the matchup start shaving cards matchup specific.
    Some examples would be ringleaders out vs fast combo
    Some number of lackeys out on the play vs creature decks.
    Certain situational cards that don't hit as many targets out
    These kinds of calls become more apparent the more you play the deck.
    Also, if you are only sideboarding in and out 1 thing think of that as a good thing. Your deck has already been designed to do well vs this deck.

  10. #1110

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Hey Warchiefs and Chieftains,

    Big shout out to Sagratho for posting the decklist he did a page back. I picked it up and gave it a whirl.
    That whirl ended up being an undefeated run taking first place at our first City Championship of the year. 50 people.
    I posted about it on the Legacy Goblins facebook page with the twitch link for the coverage where I went on coverage a total of 4 times.
    Unfortunately the owners of the twitch page did not have VODs turned on so the videos are lost. (Very Sad)
    Now I don't remember every gritting detail but here are some of the highlights.
    First the list:

    Main deck

    Lands (20)
    9 Mountain
    4 Wasteland
    3 Cavern of Souls
    3 Rishadan Port
    1 Pendelhaven

    Creatures (29)
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Chieftain
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    4 Warren Instigator
    2 Gempalm Incinerator
    1 Goblin Settler
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Siege-Gang Commander
    1 Sparksmith
    1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
    1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper

    Spells(11)
    4 AEther Vial
    4 Tarfire
    2 Chrome Mox
    1 Pyrokinesis


    Sideboard
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper

    4 Thorn of Amethyst
    3 Surgical Extraction
    1 Mindbreak Trap
    1 Stingscourger
    2 Blood Moon
    1 Pyrokinesis
    1 Sudden Demise

    R1 vs UW Stoneblade
    Originally I had the bye first round, but one of the organizers forgot to sign up so they sneaked him in as my R1 opponent.
    From what I remember in this matchup was my opponent stumbling on mana and Lackey and Instigator pulled me so far ahead. In one of the games Settler blew him back to stop a true-name from coming down and then kiki-jiki locked it up.
    R2 vs Elves
    This was my first camera game. Boy was it great. The highlight from this game was getting attacked for 19 down to 1 and stabilizing by killing his deathrite and wasting his dryad arbor and having enough blockers to get krenko going for the win. The other win was off of a sharpshooter lock with pyrokenisis backup. Goblins Vs. Elves Duel Decks legacy edition.
    R3 vs Grixis Delver (Therapy)
    One game he ripped 2 vials out of my hand on the blind with cabal therapy which put me too far back that game. The other two I out raced true names having applied too much pressure where he could no longer attack with his true names and had to use his bolt on my creatures. Being patient on when to kill the Delver was important here.
    R4 vs UR Delver
    In this matchup I was able to use chrome mox to stay daze proof the entire game and the threat of lackey and instigator put him on the defensive quick which allowed me to build up and swarm him.
    R5 Intentional Draw
    R6 Intentional Draw
    Cut to top 8, I am 3rd seed.
    Top 8 match vs my round 3 opponent on Grixis Delver (Therapy) I'm on the play
    I was worried here thinking the variance would get back at me. Sparksmith hurt me here, while removing his creatures and even with minimizing the damage to me to keep at 1 or 2 it was enough to put me into bolt range in the late game. I'm not convinced sparksmith is too great in these matchups with bolts for this reason. I'll need to keep trying it out. Otherwise I won by removing his threats and keeping my own and then another game won with Blood Moon.
    Semi-Finals Match vs Grixis Delver (Stifle) I'm on the draw
    This was a tough matchup where faking out with vial was important. No fetchlands in the list made stifle live on my triggers so I needed some mind games with vials. The winning games were off of wastelanding him off his only land then killing the delver and my board grew quicker than he could recover. The next win was landing blood moon and then taking care of a gurmag with stingscourger.
    Finals match vs a very spicy Miracles list I'm on the play
    I played this in the very classic goblins vs miracles style, opting not to put things in on lackey/instigator triggers to avoid board wipe blowouts. My opponent made a very serious mistake thinking gempalm cost 3 to cycle and played a Gideon when it was not safe to do so which made him have to go looking for a win con while battling the pressure.

    All in all a very fortunate tournament with elves being my only combo match-up.
    Thorn, Surgical, and Mindbreak trap never had to come in. Felt really great about that luck.

    Having a couple hours to hang out before top8 began was also very beneficial so I was much more refreshed going in than the other competitors.

    All in all a great run and a great list. I've shied away from winstigator lists in the past, but watching some videos of the deck performing well gave me new hope to try it out. Very strong indeed. I'm now qualified for our end of the year invitational again so maybe we get some spicy additions to the deck in the meantime. (Yeah right, WOTC hate us)

  11. #1111

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    @Quackers

    Gratz, that was really amazing watch goblins on finals again!!

    I have some questions abouth sideboard: why no pyroblast?? we have no piledriver, so its hard to beat TNN. I run pyroblast, becouse its great against show and tell and TNN. But i know that all blue decks side out all counters... but it still great against delver or jaces, even leovold.

    So gratz again, u hav an amazing foil goblins!!

  12. #1112

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Sagratho View Post
    @Quackers

    Gratz, that was really amazing watch goblins on finals again!!

    I have some questions abouth sideboard: why no pyroblast?? we have no piledriver, so its hard to beat TNN. I run pyroblast, becouse its great against show and tell and TNN. But i know that all blue decks side out all counters... but it still great against delver or jaces, even leovold.

    So gratz again, u hav an amazing foil goblins!!
    Thanks,
    2 reasons I don't have pyroblasts in there. First, I forgot. I had just got my Thorns and replaced my chalices with them and I only remembered to change the surgicals. 2nd, there are more storm players in my meta thus the mindbreak trap. The stingscourger was in that spot because it hit a more variety of decks that I expected to see. I didn't think SnT would be there at all since my one buddy who plays it was celebrating his wife's birthday. True name was a problem but nothing that I felt locked me out of the game completely. However, I do feel like pyroblast probably deserves a slot if I had remembered. I would have struggled cutting a card to bring it in though. Not having as much time with this list and sideboard, I hadn't created a sideboard map.

    Speaking of sideboard maps, a funny thing that happened was in the semi-finals my opponent brought out 2 pieces of paper that had all his sideboard plans for each deck. Goblins wasn't on his list.

  13. #1113
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Quackers View Post
    Goblins wasn't on his list.
    Thanks to the late Goblins victories reported in national or local events, other decks should soon update their sideboard list

    Congrats for the undefeated run!

  14. #1114

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    @Quackers, congrats on your win! I was hoping to watch the coverage for the tournament, but as you mentioned, the videos are unavailable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quackers View Post
    I've shied away from winstigator lists in the past, but watching some videos of the deck performing well gave me new hope to try it out.
    Do you mind sharing the videos you mentioned here? I'd gladly watch them. Thanks.

  15. #1115
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Fourbirr View Post
    Then I suppose, that it's not wrong to board Pyrokinesis in case they would combo to ETW instead of Tendrils. I mean, they have 2 ways to kill us, Tendrils or Empty. So, why not choose to board Pyrok against ANT and be less vulnerable?
    I should probably have written it better. The thing is that AnT does not bring in Empty against goblins. It's just a bad strategy against a deck that may have Sharpshooter. And they don't play Burning Wish like TES does. So the likelihood of you being hit by Empty G2-3 against Ant is extremely low. Boarding 2 'do nothing' cards against them is not where you want to be.
    Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.

  16. #1116
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by ScatmanX View Post
    I should probably have written it better. The thing is that AnT does not bring in Empty against goblins. It's just a bad strategy against a deck that may have Sharpshooter. And they don't play Burning Wish like TES does. So the likelihood of you being hit by Empty G2-3 against Ant is extremely low. Boarding 2 'do nothing' cards against them is not where you want to be.
    Hi Scatman,

    Well, then I suppose it was just unusual that my ANT opponent boarded in empty the warrens, which almost killed me. I'll adapt my sideboard against ANT accordingly. Thank you for the explanation.

  17. #1117

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by no_chi View Post
    @Quackers, congrats on your win! I was hoping to watch the coverage for the tournament, but as you mentioned, the videos are unavailable.



    Do you mind sharing the videos you mentioned here? I'd gladly watch them. Thanks.
    There are 2 that I've found. The one is from a page or 2 back in the BR tournament, that has about 2.5 games and then the other was from the almost undefeated day 1 run ending 8-1 at one of the more recent GPs last year. I can't remember which one and I'm not sure where that video is. I remember watching the game in person while I was there.

  18. #1118

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    The release notes for dominaria were leaked, here is every reference to the word 'goblin':

    Bloodstone Goblin 1R
    Goblin Warrior 2/2
    Whenever you cast a spell, it if was kicked, this gets +1+1 and menace until end of turn

    Goblin Barrage 3R
    Sorcery
    Kicker - Sacrifice an artifact or Goblin
    Deals 4 to target creature
    If this was kicked, deal 4 to target player or planeswalker

    Goblin Chainwhirler
    RRR
    Goblin Warrior 3/3
    First Strike
    When this ETB, deals 1 damage to each opponent and each creature and PW they control

    [Warchief Reprint]

    [Siege Gang Reprint]

    Squee, the Immortal 1RR
    Legendary Goblin 2/1
    You can cast Immortal Squee from your graveyard or from exile
    Bloodstone and Barrage are obv unplayable

    If Chainwhirler cost 2R or even 1RR I think it would be very good. 3/3 first strike for 3 is already solid and it has a pretty strong ability. Unfortunately a manacost of RRR seems prohibitive. Compared to something like Sharpshooter it's nice that it can actually just attack for 3 every turn (first strike is nice vs Baleful Strix, Mongoose, Leovold) and it doesn't require haste or an untap to kill all the X/1s, and has more toughness (doesn't die to Last Hope +1 etc) but Sharpshooter can also combine more easily with combats etc to kill bigger creatures, can shoot face, and has an easier manacost. I think this Chainwhirler is definitely something to consider going forward but isn't an auto-include by any means.

    I think the new Squee is VERY good. In the past I have considered even playing old Squee, as a way to get a reliable, recurring 'infinite grind' plan in only 1 card. You can think of it as like a very slow, infinitely recurring MWM. There are of course problems with the idea of using old Squee:
    - Many of the matchups where a grind plan is viable will play Swords to plowshares to exile your old Squee
    - The other matchups where the grind plan is viable are playing DRS to exile your old Squee
    - Old squee is only valuable as a 'grind' card in the sense that it blocks non-evasive creatures forever. Even if you have an unkillable 1/1 it's such a slow clock that your opponent can safely ignore it for a long time even if their only blockers are X/1, and there aren't too many X/1 creatures in legacy that will attack you and that can be profitably blocked by old Squee (Snapcaster, Pyromancer, Elemental Token? Anything else?)

    By having 2x power and able to be played from exile, new Squee solves these problems. I will be testing it as a 1 of. (One downside compared to old squee is that new squee doesn't work nicely with vial on 3, but it might be good enough anyway)

  19. #1119

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Food Chain + new Squee = Profit?

    EDIT: Friend and I figured it out:

    Food Chain + Squee + Skirk + either Siege-Gang/Sharpshooter = infinite damage. Use Squee to make infinite creature-only mana to lay out combo, then use Squee mana to cast Squee a bunch more, using Skirk each time to make regular mana. Skirk activations either trigger Sharpshooter OR pay for Siege-Gang to sac Squee each time after.

    WE DID IT BOIS TIER 1 HERE WE COME

  20. #1120

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    I think Chainwhirler is interesting and needs tested. But not bad for the cycle they were going for (3x color for creature). I agree, when i first read the cc i thought...damn, if only he was 1RR and not RRR. An advantage he has over sharpshooter is no haste is needed, he just comes into play and does his thing. There's more tricks and stuff you can do with sharp for sure, but let's not downplay a 3/3 first striker. This dude was almost made with Thalia in mind.

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