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Thread: [Deck] Vial Goblins

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    [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Vial Goblins Primer

    (Join us on our Discord server!)



    0. Update notes

    03:14 10/11/2018
    * Added a banner to lighten up the initial impact of the primer.
    * Cleaning up wording all around.
    * Added some to be tested cards.

    18:19 10/10/2018
    * Typos.

    16:38 10/8/2018
    * Updated the entire primer, up and down. Lots of little things.

    00:46 10/8/2018
    * Updated pictures
    * Updating the rest coming this week. It's in the middle of being written.
    * Match-up updates all around reflecting the new meta.

    I. Introduction
    a) History
    b) Strategy
    c) Why should I play Goblins?
    II. Maindeck
    a) Mana
    b) The Core
    c) Staples
    d) The Finisher Goblins
    III. The Two Faces of Vial-Goblins
    a) The Classic Goblin Deck
    b) The Winstigator List
    IV. Matchups & Strategy
    a) Matchups
    b) Sideboarding
    V. Outside the Box
    a) Already tested, bad cardchoices
    b) To Be Tested Cards
    c) Tested, Niche Potential
    VI. Literature
    a) Goblin Related
    b) Legacy Related
    c) General Magic Theory
    VII. Final Addendum


    I. Introduction

    a) History
    Here is a brief outline of the deck's development.
    Vial Goblins exists since the very beginning of the format Legacy. It came to life with the printing of Goblin Warchief, Goblin Piledriver, Siege-Gang Commander, Goblin Sharpshooter and Gempalm Incinerator all of which were included in the Onslaught block. Later, AEther Vial was released which made the deck one of the most dominant decks in the format. The deck gradually lost it's dominant position with the power-creep that creatures since the Ravnica block are experiencing. In 2011 with the release of Stoneforge Mystic and Batterskull the deck was once again said to be "dead". Goblins faced the problem that any creature-based strategy was more efficient: while Goblins always relied on their synergistic abilities to spam high CMC creatures like Goblin Ringleader and Siege-Gang Commander, other creature-based strategies were able to just play with any combination of cards that were strong in their own rights while having very low mana costs.
    However, people didn't lose interest in Goblins. Less than one year later (spring of 2012) some players were coming up with innovative deck lists and strategies to compete in the meta. Then, in May 2012 we were blessed with the printing of Cavern of Souls which initiated a come back for Vial Goblins. It had a tenuous lifespan though, as Deathrite Shaman made more decks play fair, but mostly at a disadvantage to itself, the whole while Sensei's Divining Top Miracles was dominant. We were in a 50-50 meta, beating Miracles and losing consistency to the shaman. As it turns out both of those cards were deemed unreasonable and were banned. Goblins is about to spring forth once again in 2018.

    Additionally this thread itself has some history.
    The First Thread.
    The Second Thread.

    b) Strategy
    So what do Goblins do? Goblins have two major strategies: (1) beating our opponents as fast as possible. and (2) grinding out games to win in late game via card- (and board-) advantage. The first strategy is made possible by a combination of Goblin Lackey, Warren Instigator, and Goblin Piledriver, while the latter strategy makes use of the huge card-advantage which the deck can create with cards like Goblin Matron, Goblin Ringleader and Mogg War Marshal. Which strategy to use is highly dependent from the matchup and the meta oftentimes you will find yourself using a mixture of both roles even in the same game.

    c) Why should I play Goblins?
    Most of all, you should play goblins when you are looking for a deck that can beat control decks on a regular basis. In this sense Vial Goblins is a meta deck. You will realize that there are goblin-friendly metas and goblin-hostile metas. Goblins rewards knowledge of the metagame because the deck has a relatively large number of playable cards in the MD as well as in the SB that you can or cannot use to tune your deck for the metagame you are expecting. Goblins is also a deck with many faces: there is not ONE, but at least TWO "stock-lists" all of which have a different strategy and perform differently against the field. This makes it hard for your opponents to get a good grasp on the deck. Next, Goblins is a very old deck and many newer players won't know how to play against it. The deck has a lot of play to it. It is very easy to play the deck wrong, but many of these less than perfect lines can lead to game win. It's similar to Affinity in Modern in this regard, but these decisions come in the mid-game instead of the early game. That is not to say that the deck is so strong that it will beat many decks while your brain is on 'standby-mode'. Furthermore there is a ton of decisions to be made during the deck building process, and they matter as much as your game play. As I said, there are plenty of 'playable' cards, but it is essential that your cardchoices really fit the metagame requirements. This will come back at you when you have to decide whether to play, let's say, Goblin Chieftain or Goblin Warchief. The devil is in the details. So, you should also play Goblins if you are willing to invest some time in working out the details of the deck (the first step has been set once you fought yourself through this deckprimer).

    If you enjoy a Midrange strategy that is a bit on the lean side, that has acceptable control AND combo elements to it, this deck is for you.


    II. The Maindeck

    a) Mana



    Let's talk about mana first. Goblins is a very mana hungry deck which needs to be provided with lands in the first three turns to ensure a fast and solid start. The high manacosts of cards like Goblin Ringleader and mana consuming abilities like those of Rishadan Port "force" us to play a number of mana sources: 22-24. (Note that successful attempts have been made to run 20 or 21 mana sources. However those cases are rare and usually only run smoothly in well balanced decklists. So for starters I'd advise to run 23 actual lands.
    Mana-denial is an important part of Goblins' gameplan. So what do we do when we are flooding? We attempt to cause our opponent to drought, or screw. This is why a playset of Wastelands + X Rishadan Ports find their way into most Goblin lists. Apart from purely shutting our opponents off a single color, manadenial lands can be used to deal with problematic cards like:

    * so-called 'manlands': Mishra's Factory, Mutavault and Creeping Tar Pit
    * Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    * Grove of the Burnwillows (in combo with Punishing Fire)

    Cavern of Souls is an auto-include in every Goblin deck list. The default number if 4 copies. This card simply does so much for the deck, and it does it in a very subtle way.
    As far as splash colors are concerned, success has been reported with EVERY additional color. Given the limited space, there is usually room for only 1-3 dual lands to support your splash color. Also, don't hesitate to play a mono red deck. The deck is virtually mono red, even in multicolored lists. Playing Mono Red is not a question of low budget. By default you should build your deck mono-red. Only if you need certain cards (mostly SB cards) that are not red or colorless, you can think about splashing colors.

    Other prominent utility lands in Goblins are Pendelhaven (which protects Lackey from Punishing Fire and pumps it to get past early blockers like Deathrite Shaman and Delver of Secrets) and Karakas (which protects your own legendaries like Krenko, Mob Boss and Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker; and bounces legendaries commonly played in Legacy, like Iona, Shield of Emeria and Griselbrand).

    b) The Core



    AEther Vial
    AEther Vial is one of the reasons why the deck can run such high CMC creatures. Oftentimes AEther Vial is ticked up every round, whereas one should carefully consider adding more than three counters.
    Did you know that?
    AEther Vial has an upkeep-trigger that reads "you may put a charge counter on AEther Vial." Therefore one should announce the trigger in each and every upkeep (you will NEVER forget that after a while) and then carefully think whether to add another counter or not. E.g.: It's our main phase and we control Vial with 2 counters on it (@2) we have a Mogg War Marshal, Goblin Piledriver, and Goblin Ringleader on our hand and we want to cheat all of them through our opponent's counterspells. Actually we must leave AEther Vial @ 2 for two rounds to do that. At the end of our opponent's turn we tap it to bring in the 2 drop. In our next upkeep we announce the may-trigger and tap Vial in response to bring in MWM after that, Vial's trigger resolves and we add another counter. So, in our next upkeep we can decide to bring in any cc3 Goblin or the 4 drop that is waiting in our hand.

    Goblin Lackey
    Cavern of Souls naming Goblin, Goblin Lackey, Go is one of the best T1-play our deck has. His threatening, triggered ability enables fast and aggressive starts, even turn-3-kills. On the other hand he does very often not "connect" because opponents will try everything to throw removal, counter or Stifle at him. Placing creatures in his way is oftentimes a plan-B, because the creature in question could be removed to make sure that Lackey gets the party started.
    Did you know that?
    Lackey's oracle-text reads that he can bring in goblin-permanents, whereas Warren Instigator can only bring in goblin-creatures. This fact is often irrelevant because most goblin permanents have legs anyways. Also there is a nice interaction with Rakdos Charm that doesn't work for Warren Instigator.

    Goblin Matron
    Goblin Matron, along with Goblin Ringleader, is the backbone of the deck. Most often you will fetch a Goblin Ringleader with her ability, but you can also choose any other goblin, depending on what is needed at the moment she enters the battlefield. E.g. fetch Goblin Chieftain to counter Engineered Plague, or Goblin Cratermaker to destroy that pesky equipment.
    Did you know that?
    a foil Goblin Matron is only available in the 7th Edition and costs a whole lot of money.
    It's also good to know that Goblin Matron's triggered ability is obligatory. That means that (1) if you forget to fetch a creature and move on to the next step of the turn, your opponent can be a dick and not allow you to still fetch a creature afterwards. That's not the case with triggers that must be resolved, i.e. such abilities without the word "may". (2) When Matron is the only card in your hand and you have a Vial @3 and your opponent plays a discard spell, like Thoughtseize, you can put Matron into play without having to look for something to put into your hand. Also, you can search your library and declare NOT TO FIND ANYTHING, in case you want to shuffle your library.

    Goblin Ringleader
    Sometimes Goblin Ringleader just reads "draw 4 cards". Goblin Ringleader has an immediate impact on the game by potentially creating huge card advantage. At the average low end he will replace himself (that is: you invest one card to get one card in return), but most of the time he creates raw card advantage. This card advantage ultimately leads to board advantage (most cards you reveal are creature cards), which means that you are winning the game. It is also important to play as many goblins as possible (34 goblins is the maximum number with 22 lands and 4 AEther Vials) in your maindeck to make the best card of the deck even better.
    Did you know that?
    Ringleader never lets you down. Have you ever revealed 4 lands in a row? Yes, almost certainly. Have you ever been disappointed about this fact? You shouldn't! Every time Ringleader reveals 0 Goblin cards, ask yourself how the game would have turned out if you had drawn those cards for the next 4 turns! However he usually should reveal 3 Goblin cards, with 4 and 2 cards lying within standards, while 0 or 1 is highly unlikely.

    How you fill the remaining 14 land-slots and which set of spells you choose for the MD is dependent from the metagame you are playing in. In other words: these slots are very flexible. What follows now is an explanation of proven subtypes of Goblin decks as well as a list of playable and un-playable cards.

    c) Staples



    Goblin Warchief / Goblin Chieftain
    Hastey goblins are happy goblins. Both, Goblin Warchief and Goblin Chieftain, make the deck more explosive and much harder to deal with. Players usually spend 3-7 slots on 'haste lords' Goblin Warchief and Goblin Chieftain, whereas Goblin Warchief is the more popular choice due his explosive ability, Goblin Chieftain tends to be a nod to Deathrite Shaman and other Squires.
    Suggested reading about Warchief and Chieftain: here.
    Cards you should NOT run instead: Goblin King, Mad Auntie, Goblin Wardriver, Frogtosser Banneret, Goblin Lookout

    Goblin Piledriver
    Goblin Piledriver is a common choice for the deck. His insane triggered ability causes heavy damage to opponents life points, when unblocked. However this is often not the case, since opponents place creatures and removal in his way. He supports aggressive strategies and makes the deck more explosive. His triggered ability checks the number of Goblins on resolution. This has two implications: (1) Stifle turn an attacking PD into a Squire and (2) your opponent can destroy (or remove) goblins in response to the triggered ability and still weaken your PD. People usually run 2-4 copies in their decklists, for starters 4 should be the default option. I am in favor of 4 copies as well, as long as you are not expecting to face a ridiculous amount of non-blue creatures.

    Mogg War Marshal
    Mogg War Marshal is the best ancillary effect the deck has access to. It does exactly 1 thing, and that's put some goblins into play. This has a huge ripple affect across the course of a game: coupled with mana denial and their own ability to just chump for little loss, many creature based decks can be time walked while you set up mana and Vial in creatures; Gempalm becomes inherently more powerful due to the goblin count; and it puts you in a good spot against spot removal. I often joke that "Mogg War Marshal is the glue that holds the deck together." This glue comes at a cost though, and that's against Combo. Many of the creatures in here can battle, and battle rather quickly when unchecked, such as against a creatureless combo deck, but War Marshal is not one of them. 2-4 are very common numbers to see on this card.

    Gempalm Incinerator
    Gempalm Incinerator is the most common spot removal of choice in Goblin lists and usually a 4-off. It trades 0 for 1 (in the worst case 0:0) with other creatures, can't be countered by ordinary countermagic, and even has a body to block/attack with. One should carefully count all Goblins in play (even Mutavault is a Goblin once in a while) and take opponent's removal into account (which can decrease the number of Goblins in play while Gempalm Incinerator's ability is on the stack) before using cycling. Cycling is an activated ability that can be used at instant-speed. This means that, since it is an ability, not a spell, Force of Will and Daze won't work on Cycling. Cards with cycling usually have an additional triggered ability printed on it, that triggers when you cycle the card (which is the case with this card).
    The problem with Gempalm Incinerator is, that you need a board state to kill a targeted creature. In some MUs it is hardly possible to develop such a board position which means that you sometimes need removal spells that are dealing damage more reliably. Tarfire is an alternative for such situations (e.g. when most of the creatures in your metagame are power 2 or less and are to be dealt with immediately and reliably). Additionally Pyrokinesis, a card often in the sideboard of Goblins, is a fine card in the maindeck as well.
    By default you should play 3 copies of Gempalm Incinerator.
    Suggested reading about Lightning Bolt (and Tarfire for that matter), click here.
    Cards you should NOT run instead: Path to Exile, Swords to Plowshares, Mogg Fanatic

    Goblin Sharpshooter
    Goblin Sharpshooter is another common choice for Goblin decks. He helps in the mirror-match, against hordes of Elves and counters a lot of strategies that rely on x/1 creatures (oftentimes tokens), such as Young Pyromancer, Monastery Mentor, Empty the Warrens, every elf but the good one. He also has interactions with Skirk Prospector and echo cards like Mogg War Marshal and Stingscourger. Sparksmith is another, tap-for-damage-spell that you can use multiple times. The downsides are basically the same as with Gempalm Incinerator with the addition that your opponent will oftentimes see him coming. The fact that he eats your life points has surprisingly little impact on the game, especially when you consider what you get in return.
    Cards you should NOT run instead: Lightning Crafter

    Goblin Chainwhirler
    Goblin Chainwhirler is a "faster" Sharpshooter with a stronger body and a harsher mana cost. In general Sharpshooter should be seen as a combo / lock piece, while the Whirly Girly should just be seen as a tempo piece that happens to also board wipe x/1s. They are comparable though, and can be run instead of, or in addition to each other. (R)(R)(R) is really, really hard to cast. You can get away running 1, but the moment you start running two the mana base needs real concessions to run it. More red sources for instance. This pay off can work in certain meta's but be very careful if you do it.
    Cards you should NOT run instead: Lightning Crafter

    Goblin Cratermaker
    Goblin Cratermaker is a very recent card in goblins history that actually does something Goblins has wanted for a decade. It's a Tin Street Hooligan mixed with a Ember Hauler. This card is very good, and just slots right in. It will be very common to see 1-3 of this card in lists.
    Cards you should NOT run instead: Abrade

    Skirk Prospector
    Skirk Prospector is an unassuming little guy that does way more than he looks like.

    1) He's a sacrifice source. This allows you to dodge counters from Umezawa's Jitte, and / or life gain from combat with Batterskull, or Griselbrand. Simply sacrifice your creature after blocks are declared.

    2) Prospector produces red mana. This is something that traditional lists actually can have a hard time doing. The power of Wasteland, Rishadan Port, and Cavern of Souls are usually worth the loss in use consistency for Gempalm Incinerator, or perhaps even Tarfire. This can come up in games where you can only use AEther Vial as mana source.

    3) He is ramp. At his worst, Wild Cantor casts Goblin Warchief, a very important type of card for our deck, on turn 2. Sometimes he produces a lot of mana. Frankly, he enables the most powerful lines available to the deck with this ability. Sometimes you just get to play "everything" into a powerful, hasty, Goblin Piledriver chain for lethal.

    4) Goblin Sharpshooter loves this guy. With both out you gain a very powerful form of board control. The rest of your deck just has a pile of synergy by being able to be sac'd to cause Sharpshooter to either remove all of your opponents threats, make them unable to attack, or just outright kill the enemy player (through a Moat if you are fancy).

    Cards you should NOT run instead: There really is no other comparison here.

    Stingscourger
    Stingscourger is a typical 1-off (or silver bullet) in the 75, which gives you the flexibility to bounce huge blockers and go for the alpha strike. He is also a popular choice in fields where Sneak & Show and Reanimate decks are around, since it effectively counters their effect. Even Emrakul, the Aeons Torn isn't protected against this card, as the spaghetti monster will be sent back by an ability, not by a spell. Another nice thing about this 'removal' spell is that it usually circumvents counter magic with AEther Vial or Cavern of Souls.
    If you want a card that actually handles large creatures permanently you are probably looking for Warren Weirding. It is only comparable to Stingscourger in that it is usually meant to handle the big guys, but other than that the cards are quite different in how you manage them during the game. That is Warren Weirding is usually not run instead of, but in addition to, Stingscourger.
    Cards you should NOT run instead: Goblin Tunneler

    Shatter Goblins



    (Goblin Cratermaker / Goblin Trashmaster)
    Artifact hate is commonly seen in Goblin deck lists as artifact hate in MD is basically never irrelevant; decks today are rarely artifact-free. The most prominent reason to run those so-called Shatter-Goblins is, of course, equipment such as Umezawa's Jitte. Goblin Cratermaker is often in the maindeck due to his sheer versatility. Goblin Trashmaster on the other hand is also a Lord, and is playable maindeck if you feel that extra push is necessary.
    Cards you should NOT run instead: Tuktuk Scrapper, Tin Street Hooligan

    d) The Finisher Goblins

    Finisher goblins are the the most impactful creatures the deck can afford to play. These guys usually have an immediate impact on the board and most importantly are must answers from the opponent's point of view due to how fast they tend to end games or accrue advantage. These guys are parity breakers.

    You do not need to run them to win a game, and some have eschewed them in certain metas. But Goblin Matron's consistency makes it very tempting to run 1 or more of some of these cards due to their game ending abilities.



    Siege-Gang Commander
    Siege-Gang Commander was, and perhaps is, the most commonly seen finisher goblin for the deck. At the cost of 5 mana it's hard to run more than 1 or 2 of him, but he hands down gives the most consistent bang for your buck. He creates an instant board state. An early Goblin Lackey putting this guy into play usually puts your opponent so far behind, even if they deal with it, they've spent so many resources the game tends to fall in your favor. He is one of the best available top decks in the late game as he can put you from a losing board to either parity, or close, immediately. He also facilitates a couple of the turn 3 kills available to the deck. But he is more than that, he is also a re-usable burn spell. The cost of paying 2 mana and a goblin to shock target creature or player is the other powerful effect he presents. This kills numerous X/2's in the format, in addition to figuratively lobbing Goblins over a Moat as a way to finish the game without combat damage. Just like Mogg War Marshal he is also rather "good" against spot removal as killing the Commander leaves you with 3 Goblin tokens.

    AEther Vial does very little on 5 other than put this man into play though, and this reason alone is why many players eschew him. Additionally he's simply not as powerful as some other options. He requires a mana investment to gain full use, and sometimes he's simply 4 chumps.

    This card does many of the things the deck already wants to be doing, and he does most of it "alone." He is a solid, conservative, choice.

    Krenko, Mob Boss
    Krenko, Mob Boss is one of the other common finisher goblins for the archetype. His ability to put so many tokens into play is by far, and large, one of the more powerful things you can be doing with a Goblin card. His natural resilience to Abrupt Decay, Disfigure, and to some extent Golgari Charm, are some of the main reasons people run the Boss. Many goblin pilots run an increased amount of "Haste Lords" to make sure that he can tap the turn he enters the battlefield. A hasty field with Krenko, Mob Boss can end a game in very, very short order. It should be noted that he is one of the best available tools against low removal fair decks like Eldrazi and Aggro Loam.

    His biggest downside is his weakness to all sorts of 1 mana answers (Lightning Bolt, Swords to Plowshares, Fatal Push. He does nothing the turn he comes in, unless you have a haste lord out. Therefore those spells can be Time Walk for 1 mana. Since he does not naturally have haste, it's possible he may die before putting any goblin tokens into play. Additionally if you very few, or just Krenko, Mob Boss in play his first activation might not be enough to change the current game in a meaningful way. The last thing to be wary of when running this finisher is his Legendary status. He can be hit by Karakas, and over the course of a larger tournament, probably will be.

    His raw power level is pinning the needle to the edge of the meter, and ends games very, very quickly. But he is bit more vulnerable. At the cost of 4 mana this turns some people off of using him.

    Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
    Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is another Legendary Goblin who's fairly unique ability put's him up as a contender for a Finisher Goblin. Pilots running this finisher are able to boast some of the best card draw available in Legacy as re-abusing the already powerful Goblin Matron and Goblin Ringleader pushes the deck right past cards like Ancestral Visions. Pretty much every goblin that see's play in the deck is worth copying for one reason or another. Multiple Goblin Chieftains push the deck past most blockers, multiple Goblin Lackeys mean more cards put into play for free etc. He is often run alongside Warren Instigator as those builds of the deck tend to be more aggressive and can take the most advantage of the effect. Not to mention his ability with Goblin Settler can cause a total lock-out in some scenarios. He also facilitates a couple of the turn 3 kills available to the deck. He is vaguely resilient to removal if there is any goblin in play worth copying. Thanks to him naturally having haste, it would take 2 pieces of instant speed spot removal to blank him entirely. An important 'trick' for Kiki-Jiki is to use his ability in during a player's end step. After the "beginning of end step" make a copy of a creature and it will stick around until the next "beginning of end step". This way the copy will survive a whole turn. Do it during your own end step to have an extra blocker, or during your opponents for another attacker.

    Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is rather lackluster on an empty board or one with only tokens. The cost of 2 generic 3 red mana to cast him is nothing to scoff at either, as many lists run Wasteland and Rishadan Port. Since Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is a Legendary creature he has a built in weakness to Karakas, but his natural haste mitigates this some. And lastly an AEther Vial at 5 tends to be turned off for the remainder of a game.

    This finisher generates game winning advantages very quickly, but he is ultimately a 2/2, and doesn't really work when you have low board presence.

    Honorable Mentions

    Some lists run more unorthodox methods to break parity and win though. Just running a high number of Goblin Chieftain or Goblin Trashmaster naturally helps this for instance.

    Goblin Chirurgeon appears similar to Skirk Prospector, and is often run in place of him. He's still good at anything that sacrificing a creature is, but with the upside of turning opponents spot removal into Diabolic Edicts instead. He's at his best against damage and destroy based control strategies. Additionally he can sacrifice a goblin to save a non-goblin if that ends up mattering.

    Earwig Squad runs a double role of being a rather large creature with a good anti-combo / anti-tutor package ability. This guy is usually run as a combo hoser. He is being mentioned here mostly because he tends to take up the slot of a finisher goblin.

    Grenzo, Dungeon Warden can accrue a lot of advantage and can be large, but is very mana intensive, and a little inconsistent. He can be played as a small or large creature at your convenience of mana. He has some anti-synergy with Goblin Ringleaders ability.


    III. The Two Faces of Vial-Goblins



    In the long history of Goblins, two decklists have been established. In the following section I will discuss them one by one and provide sample-deck lists that are as close to the basic of the respective subtype as possible. That means: there is no recipe how to build these two archetypes, neither is there a set-in-stone 60-cards-MD . The lists I present serve as examples to show the advantages and disadvantages of each subtype.

    a) Face 1: The Classic Goblin Deck

    At first we are looking at the lands. The deck is monored and uses the full number of mana-denial lands. This has two important advantages. First, it is hard, if not impossible, for your opponent to mana-screw this deck as you have 10-14 red mana sources, 10 of which are unaffected by any land destruction played in legacy, including Back to Basics and Bood Moon. Second, the lists is very good at punishing greedy, multicolored mana bases which will sometimes give you free wins just by tapping your lands. Another important element is the choice to play a higher number of Gempalm Incinerator, which goes hand in hand with Mogg War Marshal. Gempalm Incinerator is, provided you have enough Goblins in play, the best removal spell available. It is uncounterable, it draws a card, it occasionally can be a creature and most importantly it is a Goblin. So why not play the best removal spell? Mogg War Marshal makes it possible. Mogg War Marshal works in perfect harmony with your mana denial: tapping lands with Rishadan Port can mean a Time Walk but only when you keep your opponents creatures in check. MWM does exactly that. Together they support a grindy strategy that gets the deck where it wants to be: turn 5. From that point on your card advantage engine takes over to quickly outperform your opponent on all fronts: the hand and the board. Siege-Gang Commander is just another testament to the fact that the late game will be yours and that you want to play grindy games, preferably with AEther Vial on turn 1. Those four cards I separated from the rest of the deck are silver bullets for your Matron-gun. Since your are going for the mid-and late game it is essential to have answers to a variety of (un-)expected situations. After all this is legacy, which means that unexpected things will happen. Going for mid and late game also has a huge drawback: this list is not as consistent at racing, making this list worse against combo.

    b) Face 2: The Winstigator List

    The two most defining elements of this list are Chrome Mox and Warren Instigator. Chrome Mox is not only used as a tool to dish out Warren Instigator on turn 1 (which effectively gives you 8 Goblin Lackeys, and who wouldn't want that?). It also enables Goblin Chieftain / Goblin Warchief on turn 2 and Goblin Ringleaders as early as turn 3. It is essential to know which card to put under a Chrome Mox, which can be a real challenge on turn 1 or 2, but less so when you cast it later on. The combination of Winstigator, Chieftain, and the Mox makes the deck much more explosive and aggressive than the Classic version. In contrary to those lists, Winstigator lists do not try to grind out games, but catch people off guard that can't handle early aggression in form of Winstigators. The full playset of Goblin Piledrivers is a must. Goblin Chieftain is played in favor of Goblin Warchief because the cost reducing ability is less relevant: your list in general has more double-red manacosts (which is also a reason to cut / shave onRishadan Ports) and you have Chrome Mox which partly makes up for the mana boost you want to get out of Goblin Warchief. A downside is that Chrome Mox creates card disadvantage, which you should usually be able to make up for. But still, there will be games where your opponent's discard spells and the card you imprint for Chrome Mox add up to a critical degree. Another remarkable feature of those lists is that Gempalm Incinerators are cut to 2, sometimes even down to 0 copies. This is because the list is more focused on pushing through early Goblin Lackey effects, and this strategy is best supported by reliable removal. In a world where 75% of the field is playing either Deathrite Shaman, and/or Stoneforge Mystic and/or Delver of Secrets, Tarfire is more reliable than Gempalm Incinerator. Pendelhaven has recently proven to be a good card for Winstigator-lists for it's ability to get past Squires.

    Both lists are viable, and both are powerful for different reasons. It's not uncommon to see the lines blur in brewing for certain metas.


    IV. Matchups & Strategy (7:12 AM 12/8/2016)

    a) Matchups

    In this section I will present my view on a number of relevant MUs as well as some suggestions how to play them right. I will try to update this regularly, but please keep in mind the date when I last edited the list. Also, this is but one view that is presented here, so please feel free to test the MUs yourself and work out strategies that are different from what I am presenting here.
    I am using the following five "ratings" for MUs.
    (1) Favorable: most iterations of Goblins will have good chances of winning against most iterations of the deck in question. Usually you don't need to reserve any SB cards for this MU.
    (2) Slightly Favorable: your chances of winning range from even to good, depending on your version of the deck as well as some SB cards
    (3) Even: generally chances are evenly distributed. Sometimes the outcome of this is MU decided by certain MD or SB cards that you, or your opponents, are playing. Also, skill and experience will be a relevant factor.
    (4) Slightly Unfavorable: your list will need some specific tuning to win this MU. SB cards can turn the tides and drag the odds down to 50%. These MUs are usually what you need your SB cards for.
    (5) Unfavorable: most iterations of your opponents deck will have good chances of beating yours. In some cases you can dedicate a lot of SB cards to make this MU even, but sometimes it is better to accept that you can't beat every deck.

    Grixis Control Unfavorable:
    How the matchups works: This is what happens when you ban the best card out of control deck, the deck lives on because it's shell was naturally powerful. This deck is the "Jund" of Legacy currently and thrives on the 2-1 advantage. The deck does not rely on any one piece to be powerful, and is truly difficult to hate out. Winning the match-up usually involves them being mana screwed in some way, hopefully with our help using Waste and Port. The most important cards from them to us are Liliana, the Last Hope and Hymn to Tourach with Kolaghan's Command being cleanup. Their goal is to assemble a walker, or Gurmag Angler, and 5 lands. If they can achieve this winning becomes very difficult as their 2-1 engine starts to take over because of Snapcaster Mage rebuying the 2-1's. They usually don't run any form of wipe mainbaord, but post board expect 1-3 Toxic Deluge / Marsh Casualties type cards, possibly with a rare Darkblast, and the 2nd or 3rd Liliana. You really just need to keep on chugging. It's very hard to be up a beat, but thankfully they don't run their own Wastelands so you can run out any land you want.
    Cards that support this strategy: Goblin Piledriver, Goblin Matron, Goblin Ringleader, Wasteland, Rishadan Port.
    Meaningful SB cards: Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, 3 toughness cards, Relic of Progenitus, Blood Moon.
    Red Herrings: Expensive Spells that are good in a grind. They have a lot of discard and usually tag it. The cost of making your top decks better comes at the cost of making openers anemic, it's not necessarily wrong, but respect your curve.

    Death & Taxes Slightly Favorable
    How the matchups works: The worst thing that can happen is that they have an equipment at a moment when you can't deal with it yet. This would be the case when they have Stoneforge Mystic on turn 2 and you can't kill SFM before the equipment comes down. Try to grind them out, make favorable trades (or even one-for-ones). We have a way better draw engine, while they have Recruiter of the Guard + Equipment / Flickerwisp. You do have to respect Flickerwisp interaction with Recruiter of the Guard, as it often generates multiple 3/1 Flying creatures. Thalia, Heretic Cathar is another good card against us, as it prevents haste swarms, in addition to having first strike. Other potentially problematic cards in their deck are Mother of Runes and Phyrexian Revoker (which shuts down a range of valuable cards). All of that said, we have the ability to get 2 for 1'd a few of times and still keep chugging, where as they are generally at the mercy of the non-lands they drew only. This match-up really does come down to a skillful grind, and sideboard choices from both players. You will have a hard time if someone has a Kor Firewalker or Absolute Law, and an easier time against Sword of War and Peace as SB cards for instance.
    Cards that support this strategy: Goblin Cratermaker, Goblin Trashmaster, and pseudo wipes.
    Meaningful SB cards: Shatter affects, Pithing Needle, Pyrokinesis.
    Red Herrings: Do not expose your shatter / Pithing Needle effects preemptively unless you are intending to get some major tempo or the game itself out of it. It's okay if they have nothing going on and you don't. You win that topdeck war thanks to natural card advantage draws; just hold it.

    Miracles Favorable
    How the matchups works: This, just like the original Miracles deck, is a breeze. The scary things to watch out for is a late game Entreat the Angels, a mid-game Back to Basics, or an early game Monastery Mentor. Other than that you can just grind as hard as you like and come out ahead in the long run. Don't over commit and keep socking them for 2-4 a turn. They run various card advantage sources, differing from list to list, but ours puts bodies on board giving us an advantage. Watch out for SB Supreme Verdict, or more likely a surprise Containment Priest, along with more Vendillion Cliques. The big one though is Back to Basics. Despite our mostly to actually mono red deck, half of your lands in play are probably hit by this, and is an easy way to get got.
    Cards that support this strategy: Goblin Matron, Goblin Ringleader, Rishadan Port, Finisher Goblins.
    Meaningful SB cards: Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Red Elemental Blast.

    Death's Shadow Favorable
    How the matchups works: The newest Delver strategy on the block. This time round the deck actually runs shock lands to hurt itself in order to be able to play a large Death's Shadow. Thankfully their tempo orientation, and our natural deck design (The Blocking Deck) makes anything other than mainboard Delver of Secrets and sideboard Liliana, the Last Hope the only cards we truly care about. Don't race them, just try to block as much as possible and they will eventually succumb to our better top decks and draw engine. Especially since the alpha strike is often for 4-8 damage due to their self harm. Post board expect Liliana, the Last Hope or Marsh Casualties to come in.
    Cards that support this strategy: Mogg War Marshal, most of the rest of the deck too.
    Meaningful SB cards: Pyrokinesis.

    Show & Tell (Sneak Attack / Omniscience) Slightly Unfavorable
    How the matchups works: This is the most popular, and best performing, version of Show & Tell right now. Get a Stingscourger or Goblin Matron in your hand as quickly as possible, as this will effectively shut down the creature half of Show and Tell. They are more likely to get you in Game 1 than normal just Sneak & Show due to the spell based combo portion of their deck, but in turn the deck became a bit clunkier and can fall to itself a bit more often. Post board bring in all of your hate for both archetypes and rely on them having the creature portion, as it's 2/3s of their wins. You should be wary of Kozilek's Return in this match, via Cunning Wish. Take note that it is indeed an instant.
    Cards that support this strategy: Stingscourger, Goblin Matron, Mana Acceleration, Goblin Lackey, Warren Instigator, Goblin Piledriver, Rishadan Port, Goblin Cratermaker.
    Meaningful SB cards: Everything that works against the non-hybrid versions are good here. Cards that hit both are great. Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Damping Sphere, Red Elemental Blast, Demystify Effects, Cabal Therapy, etc. Confusion in the Ranks / Ashen Rider also do the job wonderfully, but are very, very narrow.
    Last edited by Olaf Forkbeard; 10-11-2018 at 05:19 AM. Reason: Updates

    If I edit a post without an explanation, I am just correcting typos and / or formatting.
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    [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Sneak & Show (Sneak Attack / Through the Breach) Slightly Unfavorable
    How the matchups works: Get an Stingscourger or Goblin Matron in your hand as quickly as possible, as this will effectively shut down Show and Tell. The only card really left to care about is Sneak Attack. As with other combo decks, your plan is to kill them as fast as possible. Due to their lack of interaction with your setup (other than a little counter magic) you can usually go all-in. After Game 1 they will bring in some Pyroclasm / Kozilek's Return, and possibly Through the Breach (which work as additional copies of Sneak Attack). Your game plan doesn't change much though, only will you replace your spot removal with some hate cards. Generally speaking you have an easy time with Show and Tell and a poor time with Sneak Attack.
    Cards that support this strategy: Stingscourger, Goblin Matron, Chrome Mox, Goblin Lackey, Warren Instigator, Goblin Piledriver, Rishadan Port, Goblin Cratermaker.
    Meaningful SB cards: Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Pithing Needle, Red Elemental Blast, Cabal Therapy, extra Stingscourgers matter a lot here. Confusion in the Ranks / Ashen Rider also do the job wonderfully, but are very, very narrow.

    Omnitell (Omniscience) Unfavorable
    How the matchups works: This plays out similarly to Storm variants, but slower. You generally don't have a mainboard out to them going off. They still run Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, so you need to respect that card coming down in the first few turns, but ultimately they are trying to get an Omniscience into play to win with Cunning Wish into win cons. They have access to their SB game 1 so be wary of Kozilek's Return or Sudden Shock off of an end of turn Cunning Wish.
    Cards that support this strategy: Stingscourger, Goblin Matron, Chrome Mox, Goblin Lackey, Warren Instigator, Goblin Piledriver, Rishadan Port
    Meaningful SB cards: Red Elemental Blast, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Damping Sphere, Mindbreak Trap, Demystify Effects, Cabal Therapy. Confusion in the Ranks / Ashen Rider also do the job wonderfully, but are very, very narrow.

    Grixis Delver Favorable
    How the matchups works: This is a Daze match up so they want to win fast, and win with you off kilter. A traditional game involves them starting with Delver of Secrets or Young Pyromancer with a supporting cast of Daze and Wasteland. You will answer these cards with your base deck's strategy and the followup Gurmag Angler or True-Name Nemesis are where the real wins and losses are made. Post board (and sometimes pre) you will see Bitterblossom, Marsh Casualties, and perhaps a Darkblast. The faeries are the scariest part of this board plan, but thankfully that life loss ends up mattering allowing us to race. The goal here should be to get your opponents creatures down to just 1 of the "phase two" cards mentioned. If that's the case their deck will be forced into a defensive position and it's not particularly good at being control. Doing this will lead to wins via swarm.
    Cards that support this strategy: Pseudo wipes, Goblin Cratermaker, Finisher Goblins
    Meaningful SB cards: Pyrokinesis and possibly Chalice of the Void if you have it.
    Red Herrings: Blood Moon is not incredible against the tempo oriented strategies since we generally cast it on time instead of ahead of curve.

    Eldrazi Stompy Favorable with Port and Waste / Slightly Favorable with just Wasteland.
    How the matchups works: In this MU your goal is to buy enough time until you can block their way with your hordes. Reality Smasher and equipment stand in the way of that plan. Their major weakness is their mana base. Their best spells cost 4+ mana and demand colorless mana, so any form of mana disruption is effective. Try to read what cards they have in hand. You can read that from the amount of mana they have available and what cards they played last turn. Watch out for some interactions of their spells and lands. A few examples: Eye of Ugin doesn't actually produce mana, but reduces the mana costs. So, no playing Umezawa's Jitte with Eye of Ugin. Make sure that they tap at least 1 colorless mana when casting their spells. Under a Blood Moon they will usually not be able to cast any spell with <> in their mana costs. Over a course of several games you will be favored, as their mana base is shaky and their mulligan decisions are more difficult - their deck is less consistent than yours. It should be noted that games with this deck tend to be lopsided, whether you win or lose.
    Cards that support this strategy: AEther Vial, Wasteland, Rishadan Port, Mogg War Marshal, Goblin Cratermaker
    Meaningful SB cards: Blood Moon, Pyrokinesis, Shatter Affects, Damping Sphere
    Red Herrings: Kill spells that can't handle a Thought-Knot Seer. Often you can just use your board to handle any non 4 toughness creature.

    Storm Combo - ANT (Ad Nauseum Tendrils) Unfavorable
    How the matchups works: You can steal games by killing them on turn 3 or 4. However, your lack of disruptive elements usually makes you an easy target. When you evaluate your opening hands you should aim for a kill on turn 3 or 4. Every piece of hate should delay your opponent by at least 1 turn. If it doesn't then don't play it. Accept the idea of being killed on turn 1 or 2 without any interaction. Post board they bring in bounce spells or Abrade effects in order to combat permanent based hate. Your goal changes none, but if you have to choose between lock or clock, lock em.
    Cards that support this strategy: Goblin Lackey, Warren Instigator, Goblin Piledriver
    Meaningful SB cards: Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, Mindbreak Trap, Discard Spells, Chalice of the Void, Amulet of Safekeeping, Thorn of Amethyst, Cabal Therapy, Grafdigger's Cage and less spectacularly Relic of Progenitus.
    Red Herrings: Surgical Extraction is 100% playable, but ultimately worse than Grafdigger's Cage, and Relic of Progenitus, here as they can run Threshold cards in addition to Past in Flames. Board it in, but don't keep a hand on it.

    BR Reanimator Unfavorable
    How the matchups works: This surprisingly consistent deck can reanimate on turn 1. In game 1 you can get lucky and have Stingscourger in your opening hand and they didn't reanimate a creature that you can't bounce (Iona#Red or Sphinx of the Steel Wind). However, this scenario will only buy you some time and doesn't mean that you win. For G2 you can bring in all of your graveyard hate and/or combo hate, while they won't get any more dangerous than they already are. Tin Fins is a faster version of the Reanimator deck, but comes at the cost of folding to hate a bit harder. Multiple Stingscourgers are very, very good here.
    Cards that support this strategy: Stingscourger, Warren Weirding, Chrome Mox, Goblin Lackey, Warren Instigator, Goblin Piledriver
    Meaningful SB cards: any graveyard hate, Cabal Therapy, Chalice of the Void. Graveyard hate that works on their turn 1 is at a premium here, as the deck gets lots of free wins from just going off before you get to do anything. Surgical Extraction and Faerie Macabre being the best available for our deck, as they can come in in other match's. Leyline of the Void is hands down the best way to handle their deck specifically.
    Red Herrings: Keeping fast hands without interaction. This deck's average turn to go off is turn 1.5. Your fastest kill is turn 3. Mulligan.

    Aggro Loam Slightly Favorable
    How the matchups works: This match-up is all about Knight of the Reliquary, and Punishing Fire. They will try to stall you out with Abrupt Decay / Assassin's Trophy, Punishing Fire, and a smattering of maind board creatures to go with their Green Sun's Zenith package, plus Dark Confidant. Either of the 3 mana Lilianas also makes a strong appearance in this match-up, but is usually not a problem unless it comes down on turn 2 via Mox Diamond. Ultimately this deck is a graveyard deck, and has a much harder time interacting post board. Leave in Stingscourger as the tempo in removing the Knight of the Reliquary is often instrumental.
    Cards that support this strategy: Wasteland, Rishadan Port,Stingscourger.
    Meaningful SB cards: Grave Hate, Blood Moon, Pithing Needle.

    Stoneblade Even
    How the matchups works: As with all equipment based deck, you must be able to handle their package of Umezawa's Jitte, and often Sword of Fire and Ice. This IS the reason goblin lists run 1 shatter goblin in their maindeck. The majority of their deck is a control list, so you are favored when the equipment doesn't matter, and a properly built deck should have sufficient answers to the equipment. Remember Skirk Prospector can negate Umezawa's Jitte counters, and life gain from Batterskull. Things get harder when True-Name Nemesis lands, but their deck is rather clunky and will often just give you enough time to race with Goblin Piledriver. Post board they will bring in removal and most notably Toxic Deluge, or Zealous Persecution. Try not to get blown out. Just kill or Pithing Needle the Stoneforge Mystic, or your specific issues, and the rest of the match should just be about True-Name Nemesis. L
    Which version to pick: Both versions will do equally well.
    Cards that support this strategy: Goblin Cratermaker, Goblin Piledriver, Card Advantage.
    Meaningful SB cards: [u]Shatter affects, Pithing Needle, Pyrokinesis, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (They are ultimately a control deck with fewer to 0 Wastelands.), and possibly Red Elemental Blast for Back to Basics or snagging a TNN.

    RG Combo Lands Even
    How the matchups works: It is relatively easy to keep them off their combo-kill with an untapped Wasteland. It takes them quite some effort and setup-time to still push it through your untapped Wasteland. Stingscourger is another valuable asset, which can save you even after Marit Lage hits the board. You might consider leaving an AEther Vial at 2 in case they jam a surprise Marit Lage end of turn so you can Stingscourger it. On the other hand they have very effective means of keeping from winning, including Grove of the Burnwillows + Punishing Fire, Maze of Ith, and Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale. Looking at all of this, your plan is to kill them as fast as possible, while having a Wasteland untapped. The longer the games lasts, the more likely they are to gain the upper hand. After G2 things don't look so much different in their deck, but you will usually have a few cards to bring in. They tend to bring in some number of Krosan Grip.
    Cards that support this strategy: Wasteland, Rishadan Port, Goblin Lackey, Warren Instigator, Stingscourger.
    Meaningful SB cards: Blood Moon, Earwig Squad, Pithing Needle, Goblin Settler, Grave Hate.

    b) Sideboarding

    Sideboarding is one of the hardest things to do in competative magic. Specifically figuring out what to take out is usually harder than figuring out what to bring in. The golden rule here is simple: "Your post board deck should be designed to beat their post board deck." That does mean determining what is important from their side, and counteracting it, all before you've even gone to the event. Knowledge is power here. The more lists you look at, main and side, the more likely you are to be less surprised by a sideboarded card from a deck. Step in their shoes, would they board those in? How does it compliment their deck? How does it hurt yours? Do they even need to board anything? What can you do to stop it, combined with their maindeck? For instance Tarmogoyf is a card that has been causing headaches for goblin players since it was legal in the format. Do you intend to Kill it? Ignore it? Perhaps just race it? Whatever the case you need to be able to answer those question long before you are faced with the problem itself, and that's not even a boarded plan. Imagine, now, that the Tarmogoyf is coupled with Toxic Deluge, or Rough // Tumble. That's a lot of pressure that wasn't there game 1. It is entirely possible you will run into situations where there is no good answer, where racing is the only out. And those tend to be the poor matchups, fast combo being the big one. Beyond this point are a small set of shortcuts to make your life easier when figuring things out.

    I tend to cut Goblin Piledriver on against decks that care about creature combat, and sometimes Goblin Lackey on the draw for the same reason. You just won't get in. The exception here is Elves, as trading Lackey with any elf is good.

    Try to leave in at least 1 Shatter effect against every fair deck. The reason is actually quite simple, and can be narrowed down to 1 card. Pithing Needle is an easily accessible, potent, piece of interaction pretty much any deck using mana wants to run. This card is usually brought in due to AEther Vial, but hits several cards in our deck beyond that. After that, you effectivley gain outs to spicy sideboard tech such as Umezawa's Jitte, or Ensnaring Bridge.

    Goblin Matron is one of the few bastions of deck consistancy in red. We don't have access to Brainstorm, Ponder, or any other piece of consistancy other than Mama Matron herself. Even if your toolbox happens to have the wrong tools in it, it's still going to be better than using your hands. Try to leave these in in every matchup.

    AEther Vial is attrocious against decks that contain multiple Pernicious Deeds, or several Maelstrom Pulses. It's a bit counter intuative, but you will actually hedge on card dis-advantage by moving some or all of these out. With Pernicious Deed in particular Goblin Lackey get's a lot worse as well. I can also see shaving 1, maybe 2, against Chalice of the Void decks on the draw. I could also see an argument for shaving 1-2 against Chalice of the Void decks on the draw.

    Against combo your deck's basic gameplan is a wash. They are faster than you and basically intend to ignore you entirely if possible. For this reason the massive draw engine of the deck is no longer relevant. I tend to board out 3 Goblin Ringleaders against these decks. You should try to leave 1 in the deck as a back-up plan, in case things go awry. Goblin Lackey and Goblin Piledriver become far more important in these matchups due to their aggressive effects.


    V. Outside the Box
    last update: 19/08/2016

    This paragraph will focus on the future of the deck inasmuch that I hope to inspire people to test unconventional cardchoices and report their results.

    a) Already tested, bad cardchoices
    * Fecundity
    * Wort, Boggart Auntie (she competes with Krenko, Mob Boss for 4 mana)
    * Goblin Guide (doesn't jive with mana denial)
    * Brightstone Ritual (better cardchoices: Mountain)
    * Vexing Shusher (deck design change: Cavern of Souls)
    * Smoldering Spires (better cardchoices: any removal spell)
    * Soaring Seacliff (better cardchoices: any removal spell)
    * Basilisk Collar (better cardchoices: any removal spell)
    * Boros Charm (better cardchoices: any removal spell)
    * Pestermite, Deceiver Exarch and Intruder Alarm (in combination with Kiki-Jiki
    (Reference)
    * Mirror Entity (requires too much investment)
    * Contested War Zone (better cardchoices: Mountain)
    * Sensation Gorger (too expensive for inconsistent results)
    * Summoning Trap (outdated due to Cavern of Souls)
    * Battle Squadron (better cardchoices: Krenko, Mob Boss)
    * Fodder Launch (better cardchoices: Krenko, Mob Boss)
    * Rest in Peace + Helm of Obedience (outdated)
    * Root Maze (better cardchoices: Thalia Heretic Cathar)
    * Tuktuk the Explorer (too inconsistent)
    * Bloodmark Mentor (too small a body)
    * Taurean Mauler (not needed in base gameplan)
    * Chaos Warp (too expensive)
    * Caller of the Claw (not a goblin)
    * Gaea's Cradle (Ancient Tomb is generally beter)
    * Dark-Dweller's Oracle (too everything intensive)
    * Fanatical Firebrand (Mogg Fanatic does more on average)
    * Goblin Rabblemaster (downside is too high)
    * Subterranean Scout (not enough impact)

    b) To Be Tested Cards:

    * Volley Veteren (competes with Redcap)
    * Cheering Fanatic (very interesting ramp)
    * Legion Warboss (just looks solid)
    * Vial Smasher the Fierce (proactive out to Grixis Control?)

    c) Tested, Niche Potential:
    * Ancient Tomb (ramp is ramp)
    * Grenzo, Dungeon Warden (does what the deck wants, not what it needs)
    * Murderous Redcap (Usually better against Stoneblade, and match's you need to chump quite a bit. Cheaper than Siege-Gang, ETB effect unlike Krenko)


    VI. Literature

    a) Goblin Related
    Goblins in 2018 by ScatMan
    Goblins Match-up Percentages and performances by Olaf Forkbeard
    Leaving A Legacy: Goblins Are Great But Haters Gonna Hate
    Funeral for a Friend
    Vial Goblins in Legacy
    Legacy's Allure - Ep. 12, Goblins with Jim Davis
    Hot Topics of Vial Goblins

    b) Legacy Related
    Introduction to Legacy
    An Introduction to Legacy in the Year 2016
    Legacy Lessons: Tempo & The Best Delver Deck
    Sideboarding in Legacy

    c) General Magic Theory
    Who's the Beatdown?
    Synergy Vs. Protect the Queen
    Puzzling Improvements


    VII. Final Addendum

    You are probably asking yourself at this point: "Wait, they didn't post a completed deck?" That's correct, I did not, and it's intentional. This Primer isn't about netdecking. This primer was meant to educate you on deck construction for the archetype. Each decision and card choice is too important to NOT have thought out before taking to an event. If you can't put something together after reading this Primer, then I have failed on the Primer's design and philosophy.

    And with that, thanks for reading the primer. Most of the work for this primer came from Gobolord; I am merely holding the torch. During the near entirety of the thread held by Gobolord the talk was civil, useful, and most of all engaging, which I find incredibly rare in a forum. Thanks for being reasonable, everyone.

    And once again, don't forget about our Discord.
    Last edited by Olaf Forkbeard; 10-11-2018 at 04:25 AM. Reason: Updates

    If I edit a post without an explanation, I am just correcting typos and / or formatting.
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  3. #3
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Hello fellow Warchiefs,

    as you can see Olaf is now in charge of the opening post. Reason being that I am lacking the time to keep the opening post updated. I found Olaf to be the most suitable person to take over, because he has the necessary experience with the deck as well good writing skills. So I asked him directly if he wanted to do some extra work for all of us and I am glad that he willingly accepted.
    We tried to find a solution that wouldn't include moving the old thread into the archive, but unfortunately there was no other way than for Olaf to set up a new thread, taking our original opening post as a basis. You will notice that Olaf already implemented some long overdue improvements. Huge THANK YOU for that.

    I'm looking forward to continuing our discussions in this new, yet familiar environment.

    -GL
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Looks great! It's been a while since I read the last primer but this one read very clearly.

    Two items I noticed:

    -I believe with the Matron trigger you mean that it is not obligatory, as it is a "may" ability.

    -Can Piledriver's trigger actually be Stifled, since it is pro-blue?

  5. #5

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Hey Olaf what a primer!! Verry informative. You forgot one of the most important reason to play goblins. It is a blast to play!

  6. #6
    Hey guys, let's do it! The blue yonder awaits! Yahoo!
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    My god... End of an era.

    @ Gobolord: HUGE thank you for all you've done. I hope to see you somewhere at a tournament. If you ever down in Rotterdam, let me know :-)

    @ Olaf: thank you for taking over and maintaining the OP. It's good that one of us takes the time.

    Great looking OP, lads. Feels familiar too :-)
    "Be it ever so crumbled, there's no place like home."

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  7. #7
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    @Dan: alright, that's reasonable then. Still, I'd play both tarfires and CotV, reason being, if I have CotV online I'm quite likely to win anyway, and if not, tarfires are quite good. Also, they run Zenith with Veridian Corrupter to break CotV.

    @Olaf: I'm not saying to don't run combo hate if you want to, but imo Mindbreak Trap is just too narrow nowadays, and most storm decks are relying a lot in Past in Flames, making grave hate not only broader, but as effective. Either way, depends on how you want to prepare yourself for the matchups.

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  8. #8
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    @Olaf:
    I've been running build #23/30 from your signature for a few weeks and have liked it a lot. The 2/2/2 maindeck removal suite of Tarfire/Gempalm/Pyrokinesis has been excellent for me. I'm curious why you've moved away from Pyrokinesis in the main. Being able to go up to a third copy post-board was great in the creature matchups.

    I played Pyroblast over Mindbreak Trap in that board because it's a broader effect, giving another weapon vs Show and Tell. Mindbreak alone won't flip the storm matchup and Pyroblast is effective against many of their hands anyway: many times they'll keep a hand based on cantrips to dig into a tutor and Pyroblast will buy you time.

  9. #9
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Sockosensei View Post
    @Olaf:
    I've been running build #23/30 from your signature for a few weeks and have liked it a lot. The 2/2/2 maindeck removal suite of Tarfire/Gempalm/Pyrokinesis has been excellent for me. I'm curious why you've moved away from Pyrokinesis in the main. Being able to go up to a third copy post-board was great in the creature matchups.

    I played Pyroblast over Mindbreak Trap in that board because it's a broader effect, giving another weapon vs Show and Tell. Mindbreak alone won't flip the storm matchup and Pyroblast is effective against many of their hands anyway: many times they'll keep a hand based on cantrips to dig into a tutor and Pyroblast will buy you time.
    If you take a closer look at that post, I kind of didn't. If I can't fit them in my board they fit in my main. I'm on the 2/2/2 split as of this moment.

    The actual, factual, non-fallacious, reason I like to run Mindbreak trap is Belcher. I always fear I will run into it. I never have buys, because I don't attend enough events, and still have to make the first few rounds alive.

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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Ha!
    I can't speak to Belcher's % of the field, but I think we just have to dodge it. If early round jank decks is the fear, Pyroblast will probably be useful against more decks than Mindbreak Trap will.

    I understand now what you were saying about the removal. I'm a big fan of the 2 Pyrokinesis main, with the third in the board. I'd like to have a 3rd Gempalm, but with only 2 MWM, not confident it'd be consistent.
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  11. #11

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Good luck today everyone!

  12. #12
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Oh God Mantis is nice to see you back.
    As for your list, I have no idea what to think. Please test and let us know if it works. My only opinion is that Piledriver sucks without Warchief ( he's very bad even with Chieftain) so I'd think of replacing him for Instigator as your 2drop of choice.
    And would like to know why are you playing Bolts over Tarfires. I get the pros and cons, but don't think there are many relevant 3 toughness creatures to deal with that would make me want to play bolt in thia meta.

    Which leads me to:
    Leovold.
    Seriously. He is a 3 mana 3/3. That's it. And he's blue. He's shit shit against us. We play against relicary. Just ignore him until you win. And gempalming him is still 1 for 1. Even though I think I'd rather gempalm a Noble than him. I get the fuzz about the card, but it is garbage against us.

    Someone asked about:
    Wort
    It's a good card. But then they printed Krenko. And that's it. The scenarios that sort would be better than krenko are so scarce that it is just not worth it.

    And someone suggested:
    Purphoros
    It's a lovely card. I really love it. Comes in against all grindy matchup without stifles or dazes. Problem is, Blood Moon is better against all those mathups.
    But if you wanna live the dream one day, play him with Krenko. Fun guaranteed.

    @griffinpride:
    I'm not gonna comment on your lists, because reasons, but since you're new to the deck, my suggestion would be (as mistercakes) use a proven list. Play a bit with it. THEN make changes. Netdecking is good when you're new to stuff.

    @olaf: thanks for the report. Bad beats, but very helpful to read.

    @goblinlackey: please let us know your testing of copter. I'm very interested (even though extremely skeptic).

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  13. #13

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by ScatmanX View Post
    Purphoros
    It's a lovely card. I really love it. Comes in against all grindy matchup without stifles or dazes. Problem is, Blood Moon is better against all those mathups.
    But if you wanna live the dream one day, play him with Krenko. Fun guaranteed.



    @goblinlackey: please let us know your testing of copter. I'm very interested (even though extremely skeptic).

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    If my meta changed to a bunch of Shardless, I think I would definitely slot him in as a one-of in the board. Seems insane in the grindy midrange mirror.

    So my testing of copter goes back to last November at this point, and I've played it in a lot of different iterations, making it a wee bit difficult to fully codify. I've probably played 70-80ish matches with the card across all versions of Goblins including it. The majority of my testing was against random opponents on Cockatrice, with a decent chunk coming from a friend of mine who I consider an extremely good player (no credentials other than top 8s at a few SCG IQs. Take my word for it though, a very high skill player). He offered to let me test against a bunch of different decks. For what it's worth (he's an Elves and Storm player primarily), he was impressed with copter. My paper version has also been playing copter now, but not for long enough to be statistically significant. My manabase in paper is also not quite complete, making comparisons a little more difficult. I'll therefore disregard my paper results from my conclusions. (I can say it's good against Maverick, that's about it)


    I started out on the full 4 copter plan just to make testing more efficient as I would draw it more often. I was playing 3 for quite awhile, but I've decided on 2 because it was too difficult to sideboard properly without taking too many goblins out for ringleader purposes (ie. bringing in 2-3 relics and 2 blood moon against Shardless means ringleader's gonna be a lot worse, as you'll have 13 non-goblin spells; 3 relic, 2 blood moon, 1-2 prokinesis, 3 copter, 4 vial). So I'd say the frequency you'd like to draw copter at is the equivalent of having 3 in the deck, but you can only realistically fit in 2.

    I took down match results on my phone, with small annotations occasionally for when Copter was especially good (though I definitely slacked off on this as time went on).

    Here is exactly what I have written out from my phone; these are all matches against the random Cockatrice opponents. I attached small notes to each title to contextualize the kind of list I was playing. I started with black splash version, with earwig squad and grenzo, to a green splash, to monored, to now with a white splash. Something I never tried was a piledriver-heavy (3-4) list, as that seems to be a plain nonbo (if you have creatures crewing, the piledriver won't be as big).

    Smuggling Goblins 1.0 (4 Copter, only 1 piledriver SB)
    2-0 Stiflenaught
    2-0 Dragon Stompy
    0-2 Dragon Stompy
    2-0 Merfolk
    2-1 Shardless
    2-1 Shardless (mull to 5, siege-gang saves me)
    0-2 Food Chain (never played against it before, didn't know what I was doing)
    2-0 BUG Delver
    2-1 Elves
    0-2 Eldrazi
    2-1 Eldrazi
    2-1 Storm
    2-1 Storm
    2-1 Nic Fit
    2-1 D&T
    2-1 UR Delver

    Smuggling Goblins 2.0 (3 copter, 3 warmarshal, 1 piledriver, 1 grenzo, dungeon warden)
    1-2 Punishing Maverick (copter extremely good)
    2-0 Thopter/Sword
    2-1 Eldrazi (copter good)
    1-0 (....splinter twin? The person left after game 1. It happens occasionally)
    1-2 MUD (only because of insane luck with a topdecked ugin. Do think I misplayed during the last game though. Copter still good, dodged ugin's minus game 1)

    Smuggling Goblins 3.0 (-1 Grenzo, +1 Piledriver, 2 total)
    2-0 MUD
    2-1 BUG, but not shardless or delver. Saw DRS, Liliana, and TNN. (Copter all star game 1. Double copter is very quick clock)
    2-1 Stiflenaught (was salty about a krenko going nuts)
    2-0 4 Color Delver
    2-0 Reanimator, with a stompy twist, chalice and ancient tomb
    2-0 Soldier Stompy
    2-0 Pox
    2-0 Big Red/ Mono-Red Sneak attack (copter great, survived inferno titan and let me swing for lethal over it)
    0-2 Storm (punted by not putting chalice on 0)
    1-2 Infect (punted on a pyrokinesis)
    2-0 Dredge
    2-1 Enchantress
    0-2 BR Reanimator
    1-1 4 Color Landstill (we decided to call it a draw)
    2-0 Miracles

    Smuggling Goblins 4.0, heavier green splash, warping wail sb, 3 copter
    2-1 Sneak and Show
    2-0 Sneak and Show
    1-2 Merfolk (died because of lack of red source all game)
    0-2 UR Delver
    2-0 Miracles

    Unhelpfully, my notes here just say "new sideboard"
    0-2 Omnitell (punt)
    2-0 Shardless (krenko FTW)
    0-2 Shardless
    2-1 4 Color Deathblade (nothing on copter, but managed to beat SoFI and Jitte on a containment priest. Dunno how I managed that)


    Smuggling Goblins 5.0 (white splash for Thalia in the board, I believe I was now at 2 Copters)
    2-1 Omni-Tell
    0-2 Nic Fit
    2-0 Pox
    2-1 Nic Fit
    2-0 Infect
    1-2 Turbo Depths (punted away the game somehow, drew 4 wastelands and still lost. Didn't play around crop rotation)
    0-2 Goblin Mirror w/ Vial Smasher, Fireblast, other nonsense. Was fun though!
    2-0 Goblin mirror rematch
    1-0 D&T (left after game 1)
    1-2 GB Infect (deck is terrifying, died on turn 2 with them on a mull to 5)

    I'm not sure where these matches fit into the testing timeline, but here they are nonetheless. My phone notes got disordered somehow.

    Smuggling Goblins, Green splash, back to chalices in SB, 3 Copters
    0-2 Infect
    2-1 Nic Fit
    1-2 D&T(sidenote for myself; be more aggressive)

    Heavier green splash, 4 Copters, 1 sharpshooter--was cut from the initial version of the deck along with prospector
    2-0 Pox (beat engineered plague twice)
    2-0 Enchantress
    0-2 Shardless (died to goyf)
    1-2 D&T (drew terrible game 3, game 1 was illustration of "going wide")

    As for my matches with my friend, we've tested matches against Shardless, D&T, Elves, Eldrazi, and Grixis Delver. I don't have match results taken down, the games played factors in how I adjusted my list since.

    Conclusions and Analysis;
    Copter has a couple of important effects on the deck in terms of how you play it. I like to think of the Copter as a colorless Delver that dodges wraths. It allows you play a tempo game you couldn't really play before. Once the copter is on board, the plan becomes matron for gempalms to make sure you survive, and just supply a steady number of 1/1s as crew. The loot can usually draw you into action while ditching those late game lackey and vials. Copter plus a few ground attacks makes it so you can hit for 4-5 damage without compromising your board position, or using your warchiefs for dangerous combats. MWM makes crewing trivial, I can recall only a single game where I was unable to crew the copter when I needed to. The echo creatures pair particularly well with Copter, as you crew in your upkeep before they die.

    There are definitely some metagame gaps in my testing (one of which happens to be miracles, which I only encountered twice and one sided into a landstill deck). Also, it's important to keep in mind that Cockatrice isn't exactly the most competitive venue, so my win-loss ratio may be slightly inflated there. However, you can also look at the results with the caveat of myself not being a particularly experienced Goblins pilot. I've only been really playing a proper version of the deck for a few months now. I'm also relatively new to the Legacy format as a whole, so at many times I was playing against archetypes for the first time ever (I believe this is true for GB Depths, BR reanimator, D&T, and Deathblade). Since this is the case, you could probably boost the percentage a few points if we want to examine "deck power" rather than pilot effectiveness. Goblins is hard to play 100% right!

    Based on my testing, I believe Copter significantly improves our odds against; Shardless, D&T, BUG Delver, Deathblade Variants. The evasion+loot is very nice against Shardless in particular, and dodging Toxic Deluge is absolutely huge. It does a nice job of stretching opponents' Abrupt Decays thin. I found that my hastelords and vials were more likely to survive because they spent the removal on the Copter. Against D&T, it makes SoFI not as much of a knockout punch. You can block the equipped creature and loot, while denying them a card and shock that they'd have normally. It also blanks Mother of Runes, as protection from a color is useless.

    Somewhat improves: Grixis Delver, Eldrazi, Infect, Miracles, other delver variants (dodges terminus if they do it on their draw step, allows you to continue putting pressure on). The biggest downside against a bunch of these decks is that it's a juicy target for them to daze on turn 2. Typically better to wait on it. If only you could Vial it in! Against infect, it blocks Inkmoth, which can be quite relevant

    Neutral/ Slightly Worse: Fast combo, ie Storm or Reanimator, Elves. Marginally better against Reanimator than Storm because a flying blocker is occasionally important to buy a turn. Against storm you just need to try to prison them out with Thalia and Chalice then kill quickly with Piledriver You don't really have time to cast it against Elves, though a flying attacker can be relevant if it becomes a race.

    Significantly Worse: I dunno what it makes that much worse to be honest. Perhaps it's quite bad against the combo decks just in terms of how you are now building your deck to accommodate it (only 1-2 piledrivers in the 75). But if you're on the more MWM, midrange-y build of the deck anyway, I think Copter is pretty strong upgrade.

    I hope you all enjoyed reading my testing results. I know it's kinda dry and not the most organized, but this is what I have. Please ask me any questions you have about Copter or matches I played! I'll try to remember or find replays if possible.

    EDIT: A neat play you can make specifically with Copter that I think is relevant a lot of the time. If you are at the end of your draw step and you know for sure that you will be attacking with Copter, you can port or waste your opponent off of a removal color (typically white for StP). You go to main phase, and either the mana empties or they spend their removal spell on a irrelevant creature. It's a good way of ensuring you get value off the Copter attack. It does require you to have the presence of mind to not go to your main phase though, as you have to crew before declaring attacks.
    Last edited by 1GoblinLackey; 01-15-2017 at 03:37 PM.

  14. #14

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by 1GoblinLackey View Post
    EDIT: A neat play you can make specifically with Copter that I think is relevant a lot of the time. If you are at the end of your draw step and you know for sure that you will be attacking with Copter, you can port or waste your opponent off of a removal color (typically white for StP). You go to main phase, and either the mana empties or they spend their removal spell on a irrelevant creature. It's a good way of ensuring you get value off the Copter attack. It does require you to have the presence of mind to not go to your main phase though, as you have to crew before declaring attacks.
    While true that you must crew before declaring attacks you can still crew after your mainphase in the Beginning of Combat step, before you declare attacks.

    This interaction is often relevant in standard currently because it lets you attack with Cultivator's Caravan by crewing it with Toolcraft Exemplar.

    I guess the suggestion is still relevant in the Goblins thread because it's a reasonable way to disable removal on your upcoming haste lords if you have that many lands in play.

  15. #15

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    While true that you must crew before declaring attacks you can still crew after your mainphase in the Beginning of Combat step, before you declare attacks.

    This interaction is often relevant in standard currently because it lets you attack with Cultivator's Caravan by crewing it with Toolcraft Exemplar.

    I guess the suggestion is still relevant in the Goblins thread because it's a reasonable way to disable removal on your upcoming haste lords if you have that many lands in play.
    Ha! Shows me right for not testing with a rules engine. I initially thought I could port on main phase then crew at the beginning of combat, but someone said that I had to do it before. Thanks for the tip.

  16. #16
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Thanks ScatmanX! It's nice to play some games with Goblins again. I kind of gave up on the deck a couple of years ago when Merfolk fell out of favor (having a guaranteed win was lovely) and combo and Stoneblade became popular. At that time, people were still hating on Goblins and packed Engineered Plagues, Blue Elemental Blasts and Pyroclasm type cards in their sideboard. I played a White Stompy brew for a couple of years, when turn 1 Chalice at 1 was enough to get half to field to scoop. However, now that BUG, Miracles and Sneak and Show are the tier 1 decks, I had a string of poor results with my brew. After a detour on Death and Taxes, I am now back on Goblins which feels solid for the moment. Similar to 1GoblinLackey, I am 15-4 in matches on Cockatrice (that's almost 80%!). Although the level of play and decks on Cockatrice is variable and many people use it as a testing platform, I only managed something like 55% match wins with Death and Taxes.

    I am skeptical of Smugglers Copter. It has no synergy with any of the Goblins, Aether Vial or Cavern of Souls. It dies to every removal spell and makes us super vulnerable to Ancient Grudge. Although it could be nice to filter a bunch of cards away with a reasonable clock to boot, it suffers from the aforementioned problems and does not fix our true problems which are all forms of combo decks (Infect, Elves, Show and Tell, Reanimator, Manaless Dredge, ANT, TES). However, it has been dominating Standard so it must have some merit. Smugglers Copter does seem extremely sweet in the Zombardement deck.

    Anyway, I am switching back to some more Goblin Chieftains and am currently running 3. I traded my Bolts for Mogg Fanatic to increase the strength of Piledriver, Chieftain, Ringleader, Vial and Gempalm Incinerator a little.

    Apart from that, I don't know what to say: Goblins looks to be very well positioned currently and it fills me with joy. Swinging past True Name Nemesis with Goblin Piledriver is just so sweet. I would encourage all the Goblin players that have abandoned the deck over the past few years and are struggling to get a competitive edge in the current meta with their present decks, to dust of Goblins again.
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  17. #17
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Oh wow. I'm 2-10 over my last five tournaments. So, ummmm, do I just give up at this point? I'd like to hit up one more good sized tourney before I take a vacation for a few weeks and still wanna rock goblins. Part of that is because my most recent losses have been quite close, so I think I'm really just sucking on the ass end of variance right now. Still, this is an awfully large number of tourneys to fail so consistently in.


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  18. #18
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Not kidding, but you should probably let someone else build a list for you.
    At least for me that works like a wake-up call and helps me re-calibrating. Taking someone else's list might help you to shift your attention away from deck building to actually playing and enjoying the game.
    If I am not mistaken, it was you who threw a Thalia list at me 3 years ago that I took to a tournament no questions asked.

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  19. #19
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    @GoboLord: got it, thanks.

  20. #20

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Good day all.

    I'm kinda new, but I'm considering getting into Legacy Goblins (mainly due to monetary restrictions...Legacy itself is a pricey format but I can't justify 300 bucks for one Underground Sea, so...). Plus, I love me some Aggro and after doing research, Goblins feels right up my alley.

    Anyway, I was considering putting together a decklist, but I had some questions first.

    1) Thalia...too good not to splash white for, IMO (though I can understand black). Mainboard or side? I see most putting her in side, but she feels almost like she belongs in main. As an aggro deck, we're all about tossing out tons of creatures fast and flooding the board. Thalia offers some protection in accordance with that strategy, taxing a lot of the most popular spells in the format to allow our guys to make it onto the board safely. I feel like putting her in the side straight off the bat is kinda counterproductive, so I'd like some opinions.

    2) I see many people putting Stingscourger or Tuktuk Scrapper in the mainboard, whereas I feel they may be more useful sideboard options considering that they're more specialist creatures. Board them in when needed. Again, thoughts and opinions on this?

    3) With Wear/Tear available, is Tuktuk Scrapper really that useful? Yes, you get a 2/2 body to go along with the artifact removal, but Wear does that for 2 mana cheaper, and it comes coupled with Tear to wreck pesky enchantments like Sneak Attack, Animate Dead or Counterbalance. It just feels like Tuktuk is so expensive for what he does.

    4) Grafdiggers, Rest in Peace or Relic? I'm feeling Relic is the best because it replaces itself with a draw after nuking graveyards.

    5) Sharpshooter-side or main, or is it meta dependent? Also, just so I'm 100% clear, if Sharpshooter is shooting 1/1s, he taps, does 1 damage to a creature, let's say. That creature dies, hits the graveyard. So that causes Sharpshooter to untap again, effectively allowing him to clear the entire field of 1/1s over and over again?

    6) Is Pendelhaven really worth it? I'm stuck on it. On the one hand, its ability to allow our 1/1s push through past DRS and friends for that little bit extra could be really useful, and of course hitting for extra is always nice. That said, replacing a land to produce green when nothing else in the deck runs off of it sounds risky. It might enable Tin Street Hooligan, but he only becomes useful IF Pendel is out, since you need to spend a green mana to activate his artifact destruction. You can't fetch Pendel, so it may not show up at all during a game, which in turns won't allow Tin Street to come online, making 2 dead cards. And playing more than 1 Pendel isn't worth it to further push yourself off precious red mana (not to mention its legendary).

    7) Warren Instigator-really sounds sweet, potentially putting out 2 goblins. Now none of the lists I'm seeing run Chrome Mox, like the primer suggests, which I'm guessing means its not worth running Mox. So basically, the earliest he's getting on the field is turn 2 and turn 3 to take a swing. Now, when he connects, we're getting the chance to potentially flood the field with some great goblins, but I worry that by T3 (or even T2) that it may be a bit late for him. T3 and our opponents will probably have 3 mana out, making him a nice target for Daze (if there's no Cavern out), Abrupt Decay, Lightning Bolt, Swords to Plowshares, etc. Him being so deadly almost makes him necessary to answer, but unlike Lackey being a T1 play and only 1 red mana, he's slower and thus allows the opponent more time to set up a board state where they can answer him. I'd love some opinions on him.


    Thanks in advance.

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