Page 88 of 88 FirstFirst ... 38788485868788
Results 1,741 to 1,748 of 1748

Thread: [Deck] Vial Goblins

  1. #1741

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by zebhillard View Post
    I still think trading one for one in the early games is fine
    Trading one for one in the early game is fine because it assumes that you're going survive to the lategame where you can pull ahead with superior CA

    If you Mogg Fanatic your opponent's Delver of Secrets that's generally good, but if you then play out 4 non-cavern lands and they Daze your Ringleader suddenly you aren't winning the card advantage war anymore (and are in fact clearly losing, because even if your Delver opponent isn't drawing extra cards they have the inbuilt virtual CA of operating on less mana than you)

  2. #1742
    Member

    Join Date

    Dec 2014
    Location

    Decatur, GA
    Posts

    90

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    If you Mogg Fanatic your opponent's Delver of Secrets that's generally good, but if you then play out 4 non-cavern lands and they Daze your Ringleader suddenly you aren't winning the card advantage war anymore (and are in fact clearly losing, because even if your Delver opponent isn't drawing extra cards they have the inbuilt virtual CA of operating on less mana than you)
    I guess this point is down to semantics, but t4 is a solid mid-game in Legacy, I was speaking more of Lackey, Vial, etc. It's also contextual depending on each game, you never slam a Ringleader on 4 against an opponent who can tempo you out unless you've already been knocking counterspells out of their hand. But, if they've already pitched something to Force t1 Vial and Dazed a Lackey, they're just as down on cards as you and I think you can afford the risk because your long game is better, despite all of the cantripping they get to do.

  3. #1743
    Viking Extraordinaire
    Olaf Forkbeard's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2012
    Location

    Currently raiding Bant, Friesland.
    Posts

    181

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by zebhillard View Post
    I guess this point is down to semantics, but t4 is a solid mid-game in Legacy, I was speaking more of Lackey, Vial, etc. It's also contextual depending on each game, you never slam a Ringleader on 4 against an opponent who can tempo you out unless you've already been knocking counterspells out of their hand. But, if they've already pitched something to Force t1 Vial and Dazed a Lackey, they're just as down on cards as you and I think you can afford the risk because your long game is better, despite all of the cantripping they get to do.
    That is exactly why Delver, Waste, Daze, and Force are good together. Sometimes you don't get a choice. Sometimes you jam Ringleader and *Pray* they don't have it. I much prefer the other scenario where they pray I don't have a Cavern.

    If I edit a post without an explanation, I am just correcting typos and / or formatting.
    Legacy Goblins Records
    Our Discord

  4. #1744
    Member
    jrw1985's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jul 2010
    Location

    Kapa'a HI
    Posts

    367

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    I just lost a match against Miracles where I was on the draw and kept a one land hand with Vial and Lackey, plus SGC and Piledriver. Opponent was on the play and led G1 with Island into Ponder. I read this as Combo, so I led with Lackey instead of Vial. I wound up losing horribly when Lackey got Swordsed and I never drew another land.

    This experience leads me to believe that leading with Vial is the better play unless you know what your opponent is on 100%. Even if my opponent was on combo I wouldn't have been able to kill him until T3. Leading with Vial was the much safer play and would have given me a chance to win the game, whereas the Lackey opening would only have beaten combo if my opponent drew way worse than me.

    So... I know its an old argument, but it seems like Vial is going to be better the majority of the time, and if it's G1 you should just lead with Vial if you have the choice.

  5. #1745
    Member

    Join Date

    Oct 2017
    Location

    Oita, Japan
    Posts

    21

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    I just lost a match against Miracles where I was on the draw and kept a one land hand with Vial and Lackey, plus SGC and Piledriver. Opponent was on the play and led G1 with Island into Ponder. I read this as Combo, so I led with Lackey instead of Vial. I wound up losing horribly when Lackey got Swordsed and I never drew another land.

    This experience leads me to believe that leading with Vial is the better play unless you know what your opponent is on 100%. Even if my opponent was on combo I wouldn't have been able to kill him until T3. Leading with Vial was the much safer play and would have given me a chance to win the game, whereas the Lackey opening would only have beaten combo if my opponent drew way worse than me.

    So... I know its an old argument, but it seems like Vial is going to be better the majority of the time, and if it's G1 you should just lead with Vial if you have the choice.
    Not to mention I can't count the number of times my turn 1 lackey has been plowed, bolted, pushed, etc. Vial tends to stick around more often.

    However I played against someone the other day who lead with flooded strand into island into ponder, and I played lackey turn 1 instead of vial. He ended up being on spiral tide (not super common) and I killed him turn 3 (lackey in siege gang, turn 2 piledriver, etc)
    If I had played vial I would have been a lot slower and probably lost.

    I still think you're right though that in most situations where you don't know your opponents deck you should lead with vial.

  6. #1746
    Member
    jrw1985's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jul 2010
    Location

    Kapa'a HI
    Posts

    367

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    @joaquin
    We should also remember that Vial is going to allow us to be more reactive on the draw. It’s a slow gameplay but it allows us to control the game as Vial ticks up. Lackey will be better on the play for board advantage. Had I taken that approach I would have stood a chance at winning that game.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #1747
    Member
    jrw1985's Avatar
    Join Date

    Jul 2010
    Location

    Kapa'a HI
    Posts

    367

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    I got worked by 4 color Dack yesterday, in part because I drew terribly and part because I sided terribly. I brought in Chalice, but looking back Chalice really sucks against them because they run only about 12 1-drops and 12 2-drops. Chalice is only really good against decks with 20+ 1cmc cards. So that was a mistake. I should not have sided out Piledrivers because literally all of their creatures are blue. Probably the best sideboard cards I could have played were Pithing Needle and Sphere of Resistance. They only run 21 Lands and have a fairly high curve, so a taxing effect should do wonders to slow them down. I also think that once you realize they’re on 4c Dack you need to save Wastes for the Groves.
    Thoughts?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  8. #1748
    Member

    Join Date

    Dec 2014
    Location

    Decatur, GA
    Posts

    90

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    and 12 2-drops. Chalice is only really good against decks with 20+ 1cmc cards. So that was a mistake.
    Chalice on 2 isn't terrible, as it shuts off Punishing Fire, the hard part is getting it to resolve.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (1 members and 1 guests)

  1. 1GoblinLackey