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Thread: [Deck] Vial Goblins

  1. #1881

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    I put Harbinger as a 1-of because it's a relatively bad card outside the combo. Rakdos Charm is fun because it triggers Lackey in its last mode and randomly hoses GY/artifacts but maybe that's too cute. This is of course all very rough and sketchy, I just want to go as fast as possible.

  2. #1882
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by chunderbucket View Post
    I put Harbinger as a 1-of because it's a relatively bad card outside the combo. Rakdos Charm is fun because it triggers Lackey in its last mode and randomly hoses GY/artifacts but maybe that's too cute. This is of course all very rough and sketchy, I just want to go as fast as possible.
    That could be a reason to have more than 0 Rakdos Charm in the SB. But if you just want to trigger Lackey for 2 mana, there are cards like Stingscourger, Warren Weirding, Gempalm Incinerator, Tarfire, or Goblin Cratermaker (doesn't help for turn 2 connection, but better card overall). Just remove the blocker. The upside is removal is also good when you don't have Lackey.

    Muxus is a good enough payoff to run some "force Lackey through" cards.

  3. #1883
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    If you want to get lackey through I would play Smoldering Spires first. You may need the additionnal land drops for your six-mana goblin.

  4. #1884
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Lejay View Post
    If you want to get lackey through I would play Smoldering Spires first. You may need the additionnal land drops for your six-mana goblin.
    Congrats on your 5-0 the other day! I get the CT main. What was the inspiration for Ghost Quarter over Port?

  5. #1885
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    I don't think port is that good, I often can and prefer to fill the board. You mostly destroy special lands with wasteland like dark depths and Ghost Quarter does that (and it improves the sb surgical plan for thespian decks). It's also two additionnal wastelands versus decks without basics like tempo and since players tend to fetch basics versus you anyway it also is quite good after they fetched their 1/2/3 basic(s). Guessing how many basics they have on a read isn't that hard and there are stock lists (for exemple ANT always plays 2 basics). Finally it can fix my colored mana in emergency situations which is sometimes a problem in goblins (and I would say regularly if you play ports).


    Edit : if you really want to know the inspiration (if I understand correctly), I got it from my old goblins list from a few years ago. Already no ports, GQ, Swamp, Sparksmith, and since goblins were quite bad at dealing with tarmogoyf my main removal back then was 3x Stingscourger + 4x Cabal Therapy main. When I discovered the Modern Horizons goblins two weeks ago I first played a league with a list with ports even though I was already skeptical, then used GQ and adjusted the numbers, then went all in on playing the cards I liked. Didn't change a slot after that move. I went 5-0, 5-0, 1-4 with this list. Not planning to play in the near future.

  6. #1886

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    If kiki winds up in your hand, like from natural draws or Ringleader, is the combo dead? Or theres a way to still do it?

  7. #1887
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins


  8. #1888
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    If Kiki winds up in hand, congratulations, you get to play a Kiki. Just win that way. You don't need to re-assemble the Snoop combo when you can just play a Kiki and win like Goblins always has with Kiki (copying Piledirvers, Matrons, etc).

  9. #1889
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    If Kiki winds up in hand, congratulations, you get to play a Kiki. Just win that way. You don't need to re-assemble the Snoop combo when you can just play a Kiki and win like Goblins always has with Kiki (copying Piledirvers, Matrons, etc).
    This. Just win with the good card. (e.g. T2 Munitions Expert removing blocker. Lackey hits and drops Kiki. Kiki can now blow up their next play. Snoop who?)

    Even if you build with Snoop combo, you don't always have to win with Snoop. Goblins has many roads to victory. Snoop combo just seems like a better version of the old Piledriver go-wide plan. It gives the deck a way to finish the game quickly once you're in a good position. It's explosive, doesn't need the combat step, and can T3 goldfish to race combo (hopefully improving the worst matchup). Another big advantage is the pieces have utility on their own (card advantage, tutor) instead of being Squire and Gray Ogre on empty boards.

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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Can someone point out the reason why Stingscourger got cut off entirely? I get that more people are replacing him with cratermaker because it has better versatility, but Stingscourger is a tutorable way to cleanly answer a Marit Lage or a Griselbrand. Not saying that we should main deck it, but not having access to at least one in the 75 feels kinda weird.

  11. #1891
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Funny timing, since I just started running one again.
    Stingscourger got cut because it was too slow against the decks you mentioned (Reanimator and Depths). Reanimator is just too fast for it. A resolved Griselbrand is going to draw 7-14 and win regardless of whether or not you're able to Stingscourger it. Depths is able to play around Stingscourger very easily, making Lage on end step. It's better to attack both decks from different angles rather than trying to answer their fatties.
    The second reason Sting got cut was a relative lack of fair targets in the format. TNN, DNT, YP, Delver, none of these really care about Sting. If Sting is bouncing mediocre targets, or if it has no targets at all, its a very bad card.
    Recently the meta has shifted back to a point where Sting looks good again. Uro is a big part of that, as Sting on Uro is a much better play than MunE on Uro. KotR has also become more popular it seems recently. This could be in part because the format has shifted more towards 3-drops, thanks to Uro and Oko. Stingscourger is excellent against KotR of course, gaining a ton of tempo.
    The printing of Muxus also affects Sting's value. Sting has always held the distinction of being the only piece of Goblin-shaped removal that guarantees you will remove a blocker T2. Running a Sting at this point increases your chance of landing a T2 Muxus, winning the game early.

  12. #1892
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Snooop Underdawg - 17th place:
    https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...rumsh_th_place

    They played the full set of Snoops but only 2 Harbinger, to still have the combo but hedge against Harbinger being bad on its own.


    //Goblins: 34
    4 Goblin Lackey
    1 Skirk Prospector
    4 Conspicuous Snoop
    3 Munitions Expert
    2 Goblin Cratermaker
    1 Goblin Piledriver
    1 Gempalm Incinerator
    4 Goblin Matron
    2 Boggart Harbinger
    2 Goblin Warchief
    1 Goblin Chainwhirler
    1 Pashalik Mons
    2 Goblin Ringleader
    2 Sling-Gang Lieutenant
    1 Goblin Trashmaster
    1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
    2 Muxus, Goblin Grandee

    //Vials: 4
    4 Aether Vial

    //Lands: 23
    4 Wasteland
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    1 Arid Mesa
    1 Wooded Foothills
    2 Badlands
    4 Mountain
    1 Swamp
    1 Karakas
    1 Rishadan Port

    //SB: 15
    3 Leyline of the Void
    3 Chalice of the Void
    2 Mindbreak Trap
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Eliminate
    1 Pyrokinesis
    1 Pyroblast
    1 Red Elemental Blast


    Curve:
    1 - 9
    2 - 11
    3 - 10
    4 - 5
    5 - 1
    6 - 2


    Notable changes over typical lists:
    - down to 2 Ringleader, to make room at the top end for 2nd Sling-Gang + Kiki for the Snoop combo
    - 2/2 split of Harbinger and Warchief instead of going all-in on Harbinger for the combo
    - toolbox-y list with many 1-ofs for the 6 tutors
    - only 4 ways to push through Lackey on turn 2, so this isn't too heavy on the Muxus plan
    - 61 cards

    I have to wonder if all the 3 drops, especially the 2nd Warchief or the Pashalik, are better than being 60 cards.

    A few years back someone did an analysis of the win rates of different Goblins deck compositions and determined the optimal curve for non-Winstigator lists had 13 turn 2 plays (Prospector and Gempalm count). There's temptation to play a lot of 3s (e.g. Warchief + Chieftain), but too many 3s and not enough 2s affected the curve and tempo when Vial/Lackey is disrupted. If that's still true, I would be tempted to go
    - 1 Warchief
    +1 Stingscourger

  13. #1893

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    With essentially 6 tutors I would definitely go a more toolbox route and add in Stingscourger.

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