Thanks Quackers.
I only run 2 Ports because of the heavy red mana requirement in my list. Lots of RR mana costs, plus Tarfire and Gempalm.
I fluctuate between 3 and 4 Piledrovers. They are your best card against combo decks and True Name Nemesis, but they can feel pretty bad against Goyfs And Pyromancer tokens. I wouldn’t play less tham 3.
Probe and DRS banned!
Let's get down to it... The meta will obviously undergo a huge shift. The biggest midrange deck, Grixis Delver, is just not going to exist anymore. It loses too much power with DRS banned and it loses synergies and in-game knowledge with Probe gone. Which Delver deck will take the reigns? Will RUG Delver be back with Goyf now that DRS is no longer fixing mana to make Abrupt Decay and Fatal Push common cards? We will have to see what the kids brew up!
4 Color control can still play Birds of Paradise if it wants to stay 4-color, but it loses the Control aspect that DRS brings. If Czech Pile cannot run a good mana dork then the whole Snapcaster into K Command line will become less common, or at least a turn or two slower.
ANT is still gonna ANT, but now it will have to do so without a free cantrip and perfect info. They can always run Street Wraith but that won't help their Storm count, and they'll actually have to cast discard spells now if they want to know what they're playing around. The deck isn't going anywhere, but it's getting just a little less consistent.
Death and Taxes should get a big bump to fill in the midrange void. Their Waste+Port game just got much stronger, as did Thalia. The resurgence of DnT will be good for Goblins because Trashman will turn this matchup strongly in Gobbos favor.
Show and Tell will get a bump as well since doesn't play Probe, so it loses nothing in this banning but gets a boost against the field. This is generally a bad matchup for us, but it is beatable. A white splash goes a long way here (Karakas and Thalia), but with DRS gone Wastes should be coming back harder which could really hurt our manabase against the field. We'll have to see what the net impact is and whether splashing is going to be worth it.
Miracles just got much stronger against the field. This is obviously a huge win for Goblins.
Eldrazi Stompy might make a comeback. No worries there.
Elves is going to have one less x/2. That's pretty huge for us. Not only do we now have Chainwhirler but we can also attack with Lackey T2 again. Awesome.
Dark Depths is unaffected, but might get hampered by a proliferation of DnT and Wastelands in the meta.
Lands just got a little bit better without the threat of DRS to shut down their plans. Expect to see them rise in the rankings. Don't pack up those Blood Moons quite yet.
Team America might pivot back to the Nimble Mongoose days... RUG Delver might come back as well.
Dragon Stompy is still gonna Dragon Stompy, and I see no reason for that to change with these bannings.
BR Reanimator loses it's biggest adversary in DRS. Expect to run into this one more.
Exciting times, kiddos!
super exciting!!Originally Posted by jrw1985
turn one lackey --> troll face
i'm wondering wich version will be the weapon of choice for our tribe in the following months
COME ON DOWN TO GOBLIN TOWN EVERYONE
Seriously, I am ecstatic with the bans. Huge shifts coming up, I think we could potentially become well positioned now. I agree that Miracles gets better (yay!) as do the stoneblade decks of all varieties since there are K Commands being thrown every which way. There are 4 big gainers from these changes in my mind: UB Reanimator, Maverick, RUG Delver, and Lands. D&T worth a mention as well. Wasteland as a card gets wayyyy better now, as does Port. Tarfire has become far less necessary as well. It's brewing time!
With DRS out Goblin Lackey t1 looks really good again!
Also I feel people forget how big of a tombstone DRS was for goblins, and now with it gone we can flourish again. Goblins is one of the biggest winners with shaman out
Don't underestimate the impact of Probe being banned either! Probe was a 4-of in ANT, TES, Belcher, Dredge, Grixis Delver, UR Delver, and just about every janky combo brew (saw play in Food Chain, Aluren, Monastery Mentor brews, other random crap). With it gone combo decks will be slower, less precise, less efficient, and less able to play around hate. The midrange decks that ran it no longer get to use it for free Prowess triggers, they don't get free cantrips into the graveyard to power Delve, they don't get perfect info for Cabal Therapy, and it's one less blue card for Force.
I'm glad both cards are gone. According to MTGGoldfish DRS was in 41% of the meta, Probe in 25%. This is a pretty colossal shift.
Super stoked. We get new toys and a long term advantage (worse in short term due to uptick in combo till meta settles).
If I edit a post without an explanation, I am just correcting typos and / or formatting.
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So I have a feeling we will be back to a more classical list running a playset of ports. I will personally be running a single karakas in the main as well.
I also assume the number of tarfires we need will decrease. Think I'll try running 2 for the time being.
Other than those, and the changes the new goblins will bring us (whirler / trash man) I think if we just keep doing what we have always done, we should be kicking a lot more butt than usual.
Been waiting for this for so long...
Also off topic, but what other decks do people in here play? Or what are you interested in trying to build now?
Trashman's printing and these bannings are pretty nice. I think that not having to play as many (or any) Tarfires is as good as Lackey not being stonewalled by Deathrite. Combo decks being slowed by the loss of Probe is nice too. So something like Relic or Crypt is probably more viable as GY hate, good for a deck lacking countermagic.
Regarding Trashman, at first I thought he was worse than a 3 mana goblin ETB Shatter but after considering it he frees up not only the slot occupied by Tuktuk but often I like to run a singleton Chieftain so it frees up a second slot too. In addition it turns random goblins into more Shatters to deal with extra equipment or whatnot. Really good.
"We are goblinkind, heirs to the mountain empires of chieftains past. Rest is death to us, and arson is our call to war."
yes probably the classic list will be the favourite in the near fututre. mwm + incinerator + shrek looks nice.
so more mwm, prospector, incinerator and less tarfire, instigator and chrome moxen.
i see us also play more stingscourger like at least 1 MD +1 (or 2) SB. white could help with thalia, priest and Rip, but they are all 2cc. black have edicts and cabal therapies. what do you think about splashing? white or black?
Just tested some last night against RUG Delver (which will assuredly be making a come back). Games are super tight and fun. Sometimes they get out way ahead early if they have a handful of counters and we have no cavern. It's just extremely annoying to play against, and having your matron/ringleader stifled sucks just as much as it did in 2010-11...I suggest everyone play against it, I'm not saying it's a horrible matchup, but definitely need to change my list up if this is the new meta. Mogg war marshall making a come back, maybe? Getting propector online to shut off daze is pretty huge.
Yea, back when I cared about the exact number of 3's I ran specifically for this match-up. Too many and you just got dazed out past a wasteland. 9 was the number that I came to back then, and I think it will serve me well today.
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Was sending payment for my JP Goblin Lackeys on eBay yesterday as I put my JP Deathrite Shamans into my vintage binder.
Welcome back to competitive magic, you broccoli-faced little devils.
Edit: I remember a Rw list that ran Thalia from the board for the combo matchup, any thoughts on that iteration? Also gives you Wear//Tear and Path to Exile/StP ( I assume you don't want to give them life) and probably a couple other options.
hello all, longtime player, first time poster... here at least.
i used to play magic all the time... then wife, kids, blah blah blah... i stopped playing at all for a long time, now im getting back into it online.
ive been playing a burn deck for a while, and now im using a goblin deck.
i loose a lot.
not like getting slaughtered but i loose a lot of games when my opponent has 3 or 4 life points left.
im sure id win more if i were a better player, but other times i feel like my deck just doesnt have the juice.
i hate to just net deck my list, but obviously theres a lot of knowledge out here on the net....
heres the list im running right now.. it will probably be slightly different a few times today at least. i change it up all the time
4 goblin lackey
3 legion loyalist
4 goblin piledrivers
1 stingscouger
1 gempalm
4 matron
3 cheiftain
4 warchief
2 chainwhirler
3 ringleader
1 scrapper
3 kreno
1 siege gang
4 aether vial
12 mountain
4 cavern
4 wasteland
2 port
SIDE
1 stingscouger
2 gemplam
2 scrapper
3 pyrostatic pillar
3 ensnaring bridge
4 grafdiggers cage
a few thoughts on some of my card choices and recent posts:
-legion loyalist works well for me. trample on a piledriver is great. first strike is great vs other creature based decks. and at the very least its another turn 1 play. otherwise theres only 8 first turn cards in my deck.
-something that i think hasnt been pointed out about piledrivers is that, in addition to their other good points, our deck has very few 2 cast creatures.
-im only running 3 ringleaders. lackeys almost never seem to connect for me. removal or a blocker almost always get in the way. usually ringleader only comes out for me from vial or casting, its really not something i want to see in my hand before the 3rd or 4th turn
-kreno is my favorite goblin to play. all those goblins running around getting all hasty and pumped up and trampley.... mmmmmmm
-as a recent goblin player coming from other types of decks, the scrapper isnt a very good artifact remover, even if hes the best goblin for the job. i have a lot of him in the deck because artifacts are a huge problem for me online. im looking forward to the trashmaster.
-not too far back in this forum someone asked a question about wasteland, saying that maybe it wasnt a great idea to use it. ive been wondering that myself sometimes, in that when i want to use it, i still need the mana. ive screwed myself more then once by loosing the land. i assume that general consensus is that wasteland is a good play for this deck?
-rishadan port. im sure im just doing it wrong, or not understanding how to work it. this card has been pretty underwhelming for me. i have to plan 2 lands to use it, like a counterspell, then i tap my opponents land during their upkeep to deny them the use of the land during their main phase, right?
almost always they use the land that i tap to do something useful. bolt, swords to plowshares, something... sure im forcing their hand a bit, but theyre still getting use out of the land and the mana pretty often. am i doing it wrong?
im still working out my side board, a lot of it is just the board i use for my burn deck, because the brutal decks that slaughter me are the same regardless if im playing burn or goblins....
-graffdiggers cage, theres just so many reanimation decks online. and theyre so fast. if i dont get the cage out on my first turn its pretty much a loss. it also sometimes helps with some storm decks
-pyrostatic pillar. i mean, what do you do against storm decks? i choose this over eidolon because the pillar is a little harder to get rid of
-ensnaring bridge. is really a great card against a lot of decks. most creature decks pump their creatures up. by the time you play this on the 3rd or 4th turn a lot of merfolk or soldiers are too big to attack, it works great against elderazi, gristlebrand, and really my favorite thing to do in all of magic is to play an ensnaring bridge in response to my opponent playing show and tell.
-goblin war strike. i love this card. i want it to work so bad. i put it in sometimes i take it out some times.. maybe its the burn player in me, but i love blasting away for those last few points of damage. it usually seems the massive blasts of direct damage are pretty unexpected coming from a goblin deck. it has its obvious drawbacks, its not a goblin, its a sorcery, but when it works its just such a smashing success. krenko tapping a few times then this is awesome. the biggest problem i have with it is that since i cant tutor for it in any way, i feel like i need to run 3 or 4 of them if i want to rely on it as a consistent part of my deck.
anyway, thats my 2 cents.
thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions
Hello and welcome to the tribe!~
I'll go over a few things I see in your list and your explanations that I think draw back to some mindsets that may help you with the deck moving forward.
"ive been playing a burn deck for a while, and now im using a goblin deck."
Red mages are great people, glad you're giving the boys a show. Remember though that these two decks operate very differently. If you go into goblins with a "burn mindset" you'll find yourself ignoring a very powerful part about the deck. I think this shows in some of your card choices. At it's core, goblins plays as a control deck with mana denial and early removal.
"3 legion loyalist"
Legion loyalist is great with piledriver, that is definitely true. However it operates on a linear axis that hinders one of the greatest strengths the deck has and that is to pivot from the aggressive plan to the controlling plan.
"otherwise theres only 8 first turn cards in my deck"
Vial and Lackey are plenty of 1 drops alone. However, Tarfire and Skirk prospectors are your other good T1 plays that set yourself up for a more controlling game plan. Again, Legion Loyalist locks yourself into the linear aggressive plan.
"3 ringleader"
Run 4. It is the best thing the deck is doing and the major reason for playing the deck.
"lackeys almost never seem to connect for me. removal or a blocker almost always get in the way."
In your list I see a total of 2 ways to kill something and 1 way to bounce something. I think the lack of removal may be playing to why your lackeys aren't hitting very often. Try increasing your number of Tarfires or Gempalm Incinerators.
"3 kren[k]o"
3 Krenko is a lot, however with you running 7 lords you have a higher chance of it coming down with haste, making him much better. I personally would not run 3, however if that is what you enjoy about the deck, I say keep doing it.
All in all, I'd suggest thinking about the deck as something more than a linear aggro deck. Increase your removal count and make sure to run 4 ringleaders.
Good Luck!
4 Ringleader. Period.
I'm a Krenko truther. Even for me 3 is a lot. I've always ran 2, alongside Siege and Kiki. Pretty sure I'm cutting Kiki and testing out a bunch of different lists. Kiki is amazing, but with wasteland coming back the possiblity of hard casting 5 mana seems less likely and less desirable.
@Secretly.A.Bee
I run a white splash myself, and have for many years. Thalia is the number one reason and I only run her in my sideboard. I'm personally willing to have her be the only white card in my entire list, but cards like Wear // Tear, Containment Priest, and Rest in Peace have all come in from white. It's a good splash.
@Ox411
Welcome to the tribe! (or back rather?) I pretty much agree with everything Quackers said, the ability to pivot between aggro and control matters a lot in this deck, and I end up on a control role MORE often than I am aggressive.
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I've been running three Krenko at the top end for a while. It's always nice to have your opponent finally remove the second one, sigh a breath of relief, then look in horror as you tutor up the third off a Matron :)
I've been leaning toward adding Kiki back in myself because of Chainwhirler.
hello guys,
i'm not sure if i'm happy with this ban. The instigator list was very well positioned in meta. We only need be the best aggro and tarfire all small creatures in game or lock combo decks with thorn + manalock.
But now, with this ban, another nightmare will come to us, nightmare that we cant lock with tarfires... TNN will be the MVP now. It was too slow to beat wasteland + shaman turn 2.
And we well face more Goyfs now... well, i dunno if goyf is big enough to beat TNN, but...
And a loooot of reanimator again, i think that 4 leyline is a must have now.
So... i dont know if classical build is stronger now, than Instigator was... I know that we can stop big legendary creatures with Karakas, but TNN is really broken.
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