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Thread: [Deck] Vial Goblins

  1. #281

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatto View Post
    Sparksmith? Well, there's a surprise

    IMO, in some cases Piledriver is a removal-spell as well. I will attack into a big creature, and force a block.
    I agree completely on piledriver. I still feel it's the best 2 drop goblin.

  2. #282
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    0-2'd again! But this time is was close :) I'm actually a lot happier with this outcome today.

    R1 Infect
    A T1 Lackey get's the ball rolling, but I can't stop his Inkmoth through the pump spells. Close G1 anway. A Waste or Port would have won it for me, easy.
    G2 I sided out Tuktuk and 1 Ringleader, brought in Pyro and Sharpshooter. I didn't side in Needle, Chalice, or Blood Moon because each of those only hits a few of his cards. Pyro and Sharpshooter hit all of them. I led with Mountain, go. Oppoennt played Noble off Trop. I EOT Tarfire the Noble, then Waste the Trop T2 and play a Lackey. Scoops soo n thereafter.
    G3 I had a great hand with Tons of removal, but my opponent had just enough pump and counters to eke it out. Another close, close game. I can't feel bad about that round since I lost 2 games in the margins and won one in a blowout.

    R2 Nic Fit
    G1 I have a relatively slow hand and opponent is getting value out of a bunch of third rate plainswalkers. I finally get into a good board position but I draw three Vials and Deed 7:1's me. Ooof!
    G2 I side in 2 Pithing Needles and a Pyrok, shaving off a Tuktuk, Piledriver and Gempalm. Surgical, Chalice and Moon all seem bad here. Piledriver comes down early, followed by a hardcast Gempalm. We bring the beats and win a fairly quick game.
    G3 No board change. I think my first 7 was 5 lands, Tarfire, Pyrokinesis so I mulled. My six was 5 lands and a Ringleader. Woof. I kept since any random 5 could be so much worse. I figured also that mulling to 5 puts me in topdeck mode anyway, so I'm still just depending on the top of my deck to save me. It did not. I drew a bunch more lands (even after a Veteran Explorer trigger) and lost to Siege Rhino beats.
    Again, I lost a close G1, had a relatively easy G2, and just lost G3 because that's how Magic goes sometimes.

    I really liked 4 Piledriver. They were great. Sparksmith showed up twice but was never activated. Still, HAD it been activated it would have been strong in both matches. The fact that it didn't do anything says something though.

    This current list felt much stronger and more consistent than the last two lists I played, so I would recommend it for anyone else that wants to try it. I would consider 1 Stingscourger and 1 Sparksmith to be flexible slots, but I also think they should remain as Removal cards, preferably with a low CMC. Not many other options in Goblin form though that are monoR.....

  3. #283
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    I played in a small local tournament today. Went 3-1 in the swiss. Lost a close game 3 to 4 color delver in the Top 8. Stingscourger was the MVP. I Played the same list that I ran in Baltimore last weekend:

    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Goblin Piledriver
    1 Mogg War Marshal
    1 Stingscourger
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Warchief
    3 Goblin Chieftain
    2 Gempalm Incinerator
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    2 Krenko, Mob Boss
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper

    4 Aether Vial
    3 Tarfire
    1 Pyrokinesis

    12 Mountains
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Wasteland
    2 Rishadan Port

    Sideboard
    3 Ashen Rider
    3 Tormod’s Crypt
    2 Grafdigger’s Cage
    2 Chalice of the Void
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    1 Gempalm Incinerator
    1 Pyrokinesis
    1 Pithing Needle

    Round 1: Win (2-0) against BUG. Not sure if he had Delvers. I don't remember these games perfectly, but Stingscourger bounced his Goyf in Game 2 to let a lackey through and allow me to snowball for the win.

    Round 2: Win (2-1) against Elves. I lost game 1. In game 2 I wiped his board with Sharpshooter but he was able to fetch, retain priority, get Dryad Arbor, and Natural Order for Elderscale Wurm. Thankfully I was able to Matron for Stingscourger and attack for the win a turn later. I had a Chalice in game 3 that he was able to abrupt decay, but it stalled him long enough to let me get way ahead. Afterwards he was nice enough to tell me how Goblins has "no good match-ups" and is a "terrible deck."

    Round 3: Loss (1-2) against Turbo Depths. In game 1 he made a 20/20 and killed me. In game 2 he went off at the end of my turn, but I had a Vial on 2 to bounce his Marit Lage with Stingscourger. In game 3 I had Warchief, 3 lands, and Matron in hand for the Stingscourger, but no Vial. He was able to make a 20/20 at my EOT with Crop Rotation and kill me.

    Round 4: Win (2-0) against BUG. In both Games he was unable to deal with a resolved Krenko. In Game 2 he killed the first one by dazing his own spell to turn on Fatal Push, but I was able to Matron for a second and grind him out.

    Top 8: Loss (1-2) against 4 color Delver. I was on the play as the 2 seed. My opponent in this round was also my ride to the tournament. He took Game 1 convincingly. I took Game 2 equally convincingly, with Stingscourger bouncing a Delver to create a big tempo advantage. In Game 3 he was able to shut off my vial with Pithing Needle. I drew 2 more Vials and could never convert my resources into advantage because I was bottle-necked on mana. The game ended with 3 useless vials in play and me with 3 and 4 drops stranded in my hand. I used a Wasteland early in the game to keep him off of Abrupt Decay mana (seemed important to protect the Vial at the time after he had used a Daze) but he had a needle instead and the extra land would have made a huge difference for me later. He finished me off with bolt-snap-bolt.

    All in all it was a fun tournament. Top 4 ended up splitting after the 5,6,7, and 8 seeds all won their matches. The decklist felt good. I might go back down 3 Piledrivers in favor of another MWM.

  4. #284
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    This current list felt much stronger and more consistent than the last two lists I played, so I would recommend it for anyone else that wants to try it. I would consider 1 Stingscourger and 1 Sparksmith to be flexible slots, but I also think they should remain as Removal cards, preferably with a low CMC. Not many other options in Goblin form though that are monoR.....
    I've never tried Sparksmith but with 7 haste enablers in my list, maybe I should.

  5. #285

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Hey everyone,

    So I've returned from an unfortunately disappointing run at the BOM trial, finishing 2-3 after 5 rounds (with 1 bye, so more like 1-3). However, my result doesn't reflect the closeness of my matches, so I don't feel too bad about it. There were 17 players, and the field was split in half between the fair decks (D&T, BUG Delver, UR Delver, Maverick, 4C Loam, Bant Deathblade) and combo decks (x2 Elves, x2 Burn, Big Red, Omnitell, Enchantress, UB Reanimator). There was 1 brew, a RUG punishing fire deck with Thing in the Ice, Jace, Dack Fayden, etc. He gave me the decklist, it looked quite interesting. Had I run into even a single one of the fair decks, I actually think I would have had a good run into the top 8. However my rounds went;

    Elves (1-2), UB Reanimator (1-2), Bye, Enchantress (2-0), Burn (0-2). Yeesh.

    Mild tilt aside, I think I played pretty well except against Burn, where I punted by deciding to cast a vial with an Eidolon on board, and it got immediately smashed to smithereens (which I should have expected). Ended up at 1, and they topdecked a burn spell and I had 5 3-drops stuck in my hand with only 2 lands. Both the elves and reanimator matches were exceedingly close, despite not seeing any of my sideboard cards in both game 3s. Reanimator was especially so, but my opponent told me after the game that when he drew 7 off of griselbrand for the first time, he drew all 4 FoWs, which kept me from resolving anything significant for the rest of the game. After the event, I played some games against D&T, the Punishing fire brew, and BUG Delver. Felt like D&T and P-fire were very strong matchups for me; I actually believe that D&T is one of my best matchups, given my current configuration. BUG Delver felt very even, both pre and post board.

    Some thoughts;

    -Cabal Therapy was really great. Liked it in just about every matchup. Won my game 2 against Reanimator, when t1 therapy got 2 Reanimates, and the flashbacked one nailed 2 Show and Tells. I'm considering bringing the number up to 3. I'd like feedback on whether or not I should have brought it in against Burn. Sounds wrong, but given the fact that I knew my opponent was inexperienced (attacked an Eidolon into Thalia, quickest block I ever made), I should have expected him to bring out Price of Progress (which he did) and not cared about fetching basics. Therapy definitely trades up if it can hit a fireblast of something like that. Legacy burn is combo deck, after all.

    -Got burned cutting a pyro and a cage, running into both Reanimator and Elves. Blood Moon was important had I run into BUG Delver or Loam, so maybe it was still correct; its hard to not be results oriented. I'd like to fit the 3rd pyro back in.

    -Copter staved off death a lot against Reanimator because it blocked Griselbrand and looted. Did the same against a Tombstalker out of Delver. 50-60% of the time it just eats an abrupt decay or other kill spell, but that's a trade I'm usually quite happy about, as I've noticed my warchiefs surviving more often. I do think I tend to throw Copter away a bit too easily actually, it's better staying on board than I give it credit for most games. I will adjust my playstyle moving forward.

    -Earwig Squad is fantastic; singlehandedly won my enchantress match by exiling Helm and Emrakul, at which point they just conceded because of lack of any remaining win conditions.

    -I'm terrible at winning the die roll. Don't think I was on the play for a single round

    -Thalia was also good, but I'm starting to go back to wanting Chalice. I got put in the awkward position against burn where she just couldn't live. I go land, pass, and his first play is a suspended rift bolt. If I just play my t2 Thalia, it did very little other than eat a rift bolt. This needs some more consideration though.

    How do people feel about Ethersworn Canonist in the SB? Seems to hit a decent number of bases for the bad matchups (Storm, Reanimator, Burn, Enchantress, Belcher, Elves, and probably some others I'm not thinking of). Think I might try it out next week.

    Here's my list for the event for reference;

    Creatures: 29
    4 Lackey
    4 Matron
    4 Ringleader
    3 Warchief
    2 Mogg War Marshal
    3 Gempalm Incinerator
    2 Krenko
    1 Sharpshooter
    1 Skirk Prospector
    1 Chieftain
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    1 Earwig Squad
    1 Piledriver

    Artifacts: 6
    4 Aether Vial
    2 Smuggler's Copter

    Instants: 2
    2 Tarfire


    Lands: 23
    5 Fetches
    3 Mountains
    4 Wastelands
    3 Rishadan Port
    4 Cavern of Souls
    1 Plateau
    2 Badlands
    1 Karakas

    Sideboard:
    3 Thalia
    2 Pyro
    2 Wear//Tear
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Warping Wail
    1 Pithing Needle
    2 Cabal Therapy
    2 Blood Moon
    1 Relic of Progenitus

    EDIT: Forgot I had changed it to 2 MWM + 1 Piledriver rather than just 3 MWM two weeks ago. I had just been forgetting to change the decklist.
    Last edited by 1GoblinLackey; 02-26-2017 at 11:45 AM.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

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  6. #286
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Exciting day! Two Goblins decks put up big finishes that were posted online. Top 8 of a 105 player event and top 4 of a 183 player event. Very impressive results, especially to me since I can't seem to string together more than 2 match wins in a tournament these days.

    Let's look at the lists!

    Brett Parise, Top 8, Channel Fireball 4K, 105 players


    Lands
    1 x Pendelhaven
    2 x Plateau
    2 x Rishadan Port
    4 x Wasteland
    3 x Scalding Tarn
    4 x Arid Mesa
    4 x Cavern of Souls
    3 x Mountain

    Creatures
    1 x Tuktuk Scrapper
    1 x Siege-Gang Commander
    1 x Goblin Settler
    4 x Goblin Ringleader
    3 x Gempalm Incinerator
    1 x Goblin Sharpshooter
    2 x Goblin Chieftain
    4 x Goblin Matron
    2 x Goblin Piledriver
    2 x Mogg War Marshal
    1 x Stingscourger
    2 x Warren Instigator
    4 x Goblin Lackey
    1 x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

    Spells
    2 x Tarfire
    2 x Pyrokinesis
    4 x AEther Vial

    Sideboard
    1 x Pithing Needle
    2 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    3 x Magus of the Moon
    1 x Ethersworn Canonist
    2 x Mindbreak Trap
    1 x Tuktuk Scrapper
    2 x Rest in Peace
    1 x Sudden Demise
    1 x Pyrokinesis
    1 x Grafdigger's Cage

    First thing I want to point out here is that the mana base has 12 Mountains/Duals/Fetches. We've been discussing this number recently and I think it makes the deck more consistent, and is worth cutting a few Ports to get there.

    Another interesting point is that there is a splash but that the splash is saved for the sideboard only. That way he can safely fetch for basics G1.

    There are 12 cards in the list that have the ability to interact with the opponent by killing creatures/lands/artifacts.

    He has surprisingly few haste-lords, cutting them for more utility goblins.

    Winter Legacy 4Seasons 183 Players

    Martino Menetti playing Goblins Position: 3
    Deck Name: Goblin

    Creatures [32]
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
    1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    1 Siege-Gang Commander
    1 Skirk Prospector
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    2 Goblin Chieftain
    2 Stingscourger
    3 Gempalm Incinerator
    3 Mogg War Marshal
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    4 Goblin Warchief

    Instants [2]
    2 Tarfire

    Artifacts [4]
    4 Aether Vial

    Lands [22]
    1 Badlands
    1 Wooded Foothills
    2 Plateau
    3 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Rishadan Port
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Mountain
    4 Wasteland

    Sideboard
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    2 Earwig Squad
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    3 Pyrokinesis
    2 Blood Moon
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    2 Wear // Tear

    Some similarities here...
    First, 11 Mountains/fetches/duals. Again no splash in the MD, just the sideboard.

    10 "Removal" cards in the maindeck.

    Big difference in the number of Haste Lords and Piledrivers.

    Both are rocking Thalia's in the sideboard which is probably a sign in and of itself that the White splash is correct.

    Outside of the Core cards (Vial, Lackey, MAtron, Ringleader) both lists run 2 Tarfire, 3 Incinerator, Tuktuk, Stingscourger, Sharpshooter, Siege-Gang Commander and Kiki-Jiki (I think it's fair to note that SGC and Kiki give each deck 2 5-drops, meaning that a Vial at 5 does not become a dead card after 1 activation). Both have at least 2 MWM and 3 Pyrokinesis between the main and sideboard. Both play Moon effects in the side. Each plays 2 Chieftains as well.

    Interesting similarities, interesting differences. What really strikes me is how these lists seems really built for flexibility and utility over speed and consistency. I've always been a fan of toolbox builds and that seems like a good direction for the deck. Legacy is a big format, so building the deck to accommodate many situations seems like the best way to go deep in a big tourney.

    Well done to both pilots. And thanks for the inspiration.

  7. #287
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Realy great!!

    12/11 lands/fetch/duals
    10/9 "removal" cards

  8. #288

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    Exciting day! Two Goblins decks put up big finishes that were posted online. Top 8 of a 105 player event and top 4 of a 183 player event. Very impressive results, especially to me since I can't seem to string together more than 2 match wins in a tournament these days.

    Let's look at the lists!

    Brett Parise, Top 8, Channel Fireball 4K, 105 players


    Lands
    1 x Pendelhaven
    2 x Plateau
    2 x Rishadan Port
    4 x Wasteland
    3 x Scalding Tarn
    4 x Arid Mesa
    4 x Cavern of Souls
    3 x Mountain

    Creatures
    1 x Tuktuk Scrapper
    1 x Siege-Gang Commander
    1 x Goblin Settler
    4 x Goblin Ringleader
    3 x Gempalm Incinerator
    1 x Goblin Sharpshooter
    2 x Goblin Chieftain
    4 x Goblin Matron
    2 x Goblin Piledriver
    2 x Mogg War Marshal
    1 x Stingscourger
    2 x Warren Instigator
    4 x Goblin Lackey
    1 x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

    Spells
    2 x Tarfire
    2 x Pyrokinesis
    4 x AEther Vial

    Sideboard
    1 x Pithing Needle
    2 x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    3 x Magus of the Moon
    1 x Ethersworn Canonist
    2 x Mindbreak Trap
    1 x Tuktuk Scrapper
    2 x Rest in Peace
    1 x Sudden Demise
    1 x Pyrokinesis
    1 x Grafdigger's Cage

    First thing I want to point out here is that the mana base has 12 Mountains/Duals/Fetches. We've been discussing this number recently and I think it makes the deck more consistent, and is worth cutting a few Ports to get there.

    Another interesting point is that there is a splash but that the splash is saved for the sideboard only. That way he can safely fetch for basics G1.

    There are 12 cards in the list that have the ability to interact with the opponent by killing creatures/lands/artifacts.

    He has surprisingly few haste-lords, cutting them for more utility goblins.

    Winter Legacy 4Seasons 183 Players

    Martino Menetti playing Goblins Position: 3
    Deck Name: Goblin

    Creatures [32]
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
    1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    1 Siege-Gang Commander
    1 Skirk Prospector
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    2 Goblin Chieftain
    2 Stingscourger
    3 Gempalm Incinerator
    3 Mogg War Marshal
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    4 Goblin Warchief

    Instants [2]
    2 Tarfire

    Artifacts [4]
    4 Aether Vial

    Lands [22]
    1 Badlands
    1 Wooded Foothills
    2 Plateau
    3 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Rishadan Port
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Mountain
    4 Wasteland

    Sideboard
    3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    2 Earwig Squad
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    3 Pyrokinesis
    2 Blood Moon
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    2 Wear // Tear

    Some similarities here...
    First, 11 Mountains/fetches/duals. Again no splash in the MD, just the sideboard.

    10 "Removal" cards in the maindeck.

    Big difference in the number of Haste Lords and Piledrivers.

    Both are rocking Thalia's in the sideboard which is probably a sign in and of itself that the White splash is correct.

    Outside of the Core cards (Vial, Lackey, MAtron, Ringleader) both lists run 2 Tarfire, 3 Incinerator, Tuktuk, Stingscourger, Sharpshooter, Siege-Gang Commander and Kiki-Jiki (I think it's fair to note that SGC and Kiki give each deck 2 5-drops, meaning that a Vial at 5 does not become a dead card after 1 activation). Both have at least 2 MWM and 3 Pyrokinesis between the main and sideboard. Both play Moon effects in the side. Each plays 2 Chieftains as well.

    Interesting similarities, interesting differences. What really strikes me is how these lists seems really built for flexibility and utility over speed and consistency. I've always been a fan of toolbox builds and that seems like a good direction for the deck. Legacy is a big format, so building the deck to accommodate many situations seems like the best way to go deep in a big tourney.

    Well done to both pilots. And thanks for the inspiration.
    The massive differences in these lists (0-4 Warchiefs, 0-2 Piledriver, etc) make it frustratingly hard to draw conclusions from these results. That being said, I find myself partial to Martino's list, though the 22 lands blows my mind a bit. It's easy enough to get stuck on lands with only 23 and no 5 drops; how do you manage 22 there?? It is worth noting that his Ringleaders must be fantastic considering the 34 hits. I also like that he's using Goblin shaped hate in his sideboard (Squad and another Sharpshooter) to keep ringleader numbers up.

    These results continue to indicate that Goblins moving forward should stock up on a bit more removal and be built in many ways like a traditional prison/control deck. My general feeling with a lot of games is that I can start out strong with a vial or lackey, then have trouble impacting the board significantly between turns 2-4, then becoming favored the longer the game goes from there. My long-running experiment with Copter has been largely bent towards fixing this. As I have played it more and more, I think I'm comfortable with stating that the card is very good, but becomes worth running over other goblins or removal against Stoneforge decks, particularly D&T. It's bad in a daze heavy format, which is very annoying.

    Obviously, we still need to retain some aggressive elements in a format as fast as legacy, but just killing stuff while waiting to tick up vials and get some ringleaders in seems like a strong plan. It's amusing that now that disfigure has left the format, and lightning bolt is played as little as it is right now, Kiki and SGC are nigh impossible to kill for some decks outside of Toxic Deluge. Might start jamming a Siege-Gang again.

    Tomorrow I'm trying out a miser's Perish because my meta is getting overrun with green creatures. Multiple Elves players, BUG delver, Maverick, 4C Loam, 2 Enchantress, Bant Deathblade, Nic Fit. Looking forward to nuking some boards with it. I also am gonna try out what Brett did with a 2-1 split on Thalia/Canonist. Here's what I'm jamming as far as sideboard

    3 Cabal Therapy
    2 Pyro
    2 Thalia
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Blood Moon
    1 Wear//Tear
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Relic
    1 Perish
    1 Canonist
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

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  9. #289
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    I played my new list in a tournament for the first time.
    I arrived at this list after looking at what I consider to be the core of my build and seeing how many spell slots I have left between maindeck and sideboard. The theory here is since I almost always board out some number of Goblins for non-goblins I can afford to play a few non-goblins maindeck as it doesn't actually decrease the goblin count post board, put effectively increases the number of sideboard slots I have access to. So I added three therapies to the maindeck and adjusted the list accordingly. This is what I ended up with.

    4 Aether Vial
    4 Goblin Lackey
    1 Skirk Prospector
    3 Mogg War Marshal
    4 Goblin Warchief
    1 Earwig Squad
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    2 Tarfire
    3 Gempalm Incinerator
    1 Warren Weirding
    1 Stingscourger
    3 Cabal Therapy

    4 Wasteland
    1 Karakas
    4 Cavern of Souls
    3 Arid Mesa
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Wooded Foothills
    3 Badlands
    4 Snow-covered Mountain

    Sideboard
    3 Chalice of the Void
    2 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Surgical Extraction
    2 Blood Moon
    2 Pithing Needle
    2 Pyrokinesis
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper

    I went 4-0, beating
    Infect 2-0
    Poxloam 2-1
    BR Reanimator 2-1
    Dark Threshold 2-1

    The list felt well rounded overall, although I have a few ideas I'd like to try out. Therapy helps keep the critical mass of disruption for combo decks high enough, but might not be the best option vs other decks. Time will tell if it's a sacrifice worth making or not.
    I really liked having three different answers to a resolved threat out of Reanimator or show and tell. With needle to stop Griselbrand fighting these matchups on this axis is something I would like to explore.

  10. #290
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Hi green skinned cousins,

    @Sandro: Congrats for your wins with this last brew.

    However, I'm concerned with sideboard and have some questions.

    your Sideboard:
    3 Chalice of the Void
    2 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Surgical Extraction
    2 Blood Moon
    2 Pithing Needle
    2 Pyrokinesis
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper

    When did you board Chalice? I suppose Chalice for 1 against Infect and Reanimator, right? Then, you surely want to board Surgical Extraction and Needle against the 1st one and Relic of Progenitus, Grafdigger's Cage, Surgical against the 2nd one. Isn't it a bit counter productive? Did you meet situations were you couldn't cast one?

    @all: I have some questions regarding boarding plan against fast combo decks like Storm, Elves, Dredge, Sneak&Show, Belcher to name a few. Do you board out Aether Vials? What about Ringleaders? How many would you board out? I know that they are very unfavorable match-ups, but still, one time or another, if they get screw, we can have time to T3 kill them.

    Here is my list and sideboard plans, see below:

    //Mana base
    3 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Cavern of Souls
    1 Plateau
    1 Taiga
    4 Rishadan Port
    4 Snow-Covered Mountain
    4 Wasteland
    2 Wooded Foothills

    //Core
    4 Æther Vial
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Warchief

    //Others / Flex-slots
    4 Goblin Piledriver
    2 Mogg War Marshal
    1 Skirk Prospector
    1 Siege-Gang Commander

    //Removals
    4 Gempalm Incinerator
    2 Tarfire
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Tin Street Hooligan

    //Sideboard
    SB: 3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    SB: 2 Containment Priest
    SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
    SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
    SB: 2 Pyrokinesis
    SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
    SB: 2 Pithing Needle
    SB: 1 Tin Street Hooligan



    Sideboard plans:

    GOBLIN CHARBELCHER
    -1 Tarfire, -3 Ringleader, -3 Gempalm Incinerator, -1 Stingscourger
    +3 Thalia, +2 Pithing needle («Goblin Charbelcher»), +1 Tin Street Hooligan, +2 Mindbreak Trap

    DREDGE
    -2 Tarfire, -3 Gempalm Incinerator
    +2 Relic of Progenitus, +2 Containment Priest, +1 Surgical Extraction (Bridge from Below, Dread Return)

    ELVES
    -4 Aether Vial, -3 Ringleader, -1 Piledriver, -1 Lackey, -1 Tin Street Hooligan
    +3 Thalia, +2 Pyrokinesis, +2 Containment Priest, +1 Surgical Extraction, +2 Pithing Needle (DRS)

    INFECT
    Tips: Don’t Side out Mogg War Marshall to enable Gempalm.
    -4 Lackey, -1 Skirk Prospector, -1 Piledriver
    +2 Pyrokinesis, +3 Thalia, +1 Stingscourger

    SHOW & TELL / SNEAK & SHOW / OMNITELL
    Tips: Keep a vial on 2 to Stingscourger or Thalia anytime
    -2 Tarfire, -4 Gempalm Incinerator, -3 Ringleader
    +3 Thalia, +2 Containment Priest, +1 Stingscourger, +2 Pithing needle (Sneak Attack/Griselbrand), +1 Surgical Extraction

    STORM
    Tips: Name human with cavern for Thalia
    -2 Tarfire, -4 Ringleader, -4 Gempalm Incinerator
    +3 Thalia, +2 Relic of Progenitus, +2 Pyrokinesis, +2 Mindbreak Trap, +1 Surgical Extraction

    For the record, this list brought me a couple of times into Top 8 at local 20+ people events during the last 2 months. But as my meta is infested with fast combos, I would like to improve a bit.

    What are your thoughts? Vial in or Vial out?

  11. #291
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Fourbirr View Post

    DREDGE
    -2 Tarfire, -3 Gempalm Incinerator
    +2 Relic of Progenitus, +2 Containment Priest, +1 Surgical Extraction (Bridge from Below, Dread Return)

    Keep in Tarfire or Gempalm to kill your own creatures. Would perhaps keep in 2 Gempalms and side out 2 Ringleaders

    ELVES
    -4 Aether Vial, -3 Ringleader, -1 Piledriver, -1 Lackey, -1 Tin Street Hooligan
    +3 Thalia, +2 Pyrokinesis, +2 Containment Priest, +1 Surgical Extraction, +2 Pithing Needle (DRS)

    Keep in Lackey + Aether Vial. Surgical + Needle are super loose, and Thalia is horrific against Elves. Max Tietze used to board in MBT against Elves but that seems sketchy

    INFECT
    Tips: Don’t Side out Mogg War Marshall to enable Gempalm.
    -4 Lackey, -1 Skirk Prospector, -1 Piledriver
    +2 Pyrokinesis, +3 Thalia, +1 Stingscourger

    I board totally differently. Thalia is really not good against Infect (trust me on this as a DnT player), and Stingscourger really doesn't do a great deal. Prospector + Sharpshooter is basically a hard lock against them, and the 4 Lackeys will trade with anything. They have 12 threats, you have 30. You also want more relevant early plays too. Pithing Needle could be a good sb option for Inkmoth but I would only bring in one, you already have Port + Wasteland to disrupt Inkmoth.
    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    Dat 1/1 with built in pump. Watch out Griselbrand here comes lizard mid range.
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    Is this a troll or are gobbos really dtb?

  12. #292
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Fourbirr View Post
    Hi green skinned cousins,

    @Sandro: Congrats for your wins with this last brew.

    However, I'm concerned with sideboard and have some questions.

    your Sideboard:
    3 Chalice of the Void
    2 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Surgical Extraction
    2 Blood Moon
    2 Pithing Needle
    2 Pyrokinesis
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper

    When did you board Chalice? I suppose Chalice for 1 against Infect and Reanimator, right? Then, you surely want to board Surgical Extraction and Needle against the 1st one and Relic of Progenitus, Grafdigger's Cage, Surgical against the 2nd one. Isn't it a bit counter productive? Did you meet situations were you couldn't cast one?
    I don't bring in Chalice against Infect. It's for delver and combo decks. Sometimes it can be an issue, it countering your own spells, but most of the time it is not. In the matchups where chalice is good it usually locks them out quite well, and so it doesn't matter if a few of your own spells are locked out as well.

  13. #293
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandro95 View Post
    I don't bring in Chalice against Infect. It's for delver and combo decks. Sometimes it can be an issue, it countering your own spells, but most of the time it is not. In the matchups where chalice is good it usually locks them out quite well, and so it doesn't matter if a few of your own spells are locked out as well.
    Oh, I see. Thank you.

  14. #294
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Fourbirr View Post

    DREDGE
    -2 Tarfire, -3 Gempalm Incinerator
    +2 Relic of Progenitus, +2 Containment Priest, +1 Surgical Extraction (Bridge from Below, Dread Return)

    Keep in Tarfire or Gempalm to kill your own creatures. Would perhaps keep in 2 Gempalms and side out 2 Ringleaders

    ELVES
    -4 Aether Vial, -3 Ringleader, -1 Piledriver, -1 Lackey, -1 Tin Street Hooligan
    +3 Thalia, +2 Pyrokinesis, +2 Containment Priest, +1 Surgical Extraction, +2 Pithing Needle (DRS)

    Keep in Lackey + Aether Vial. Surgical + Needle are super loose, and Thalia is horrific against Elves. Max Tietze used to board in MBT against Elves but that seems sketchy

    INFECT
    Tips: Don’t Side out Mogg War Marshall to enable Gempalm.
    -4 Lackey, -1 Skirk Prospector, -1 Piledriver
    +2 Pyrokinesis, +3 Thalia, +1 Stingscourger

    I board totally differently. Thalia is really not good against Infect (trust me on this as a DnT player), and Stingscourger really doesn't do a great deal. Prospector + Sharpshooter is basically a hard lock against them, and the 4 Lackeys will trade with anything. They have 12 threats, you have 30. You also want more relevant early plays too. Pithing Needle could be a good sb option for Inkmoth but I would only bring in one, you already have Port + Wasteland to disrupt Inkmoth.

    Thank you very much for your boarding tips.

    I will keep more Gempalms against Dredge to kill my own creatures. Most of the time, letting Mogg War Marshall die for nor paying its echo cost does the job.

    Yeah, Thalia isn't great against elves, I'll change that. As for Infect, I thought I was overboarding. Can't wait to try those new strategies.

    By the way, I'll be in Paris this year again for the BOM Eternal Week-End. It would be nice to meet some of my green-skinned cousins. I'll do the trials on Friday. As a little tip, last year in October, the first day was full of Storm/ANT, Oops, Belcher, Reanimator, Dredge, Elves, Aluren and other combo decks. Some 12-Posts, Burn and Big Red, too. On 9 matches, I just met 1 miracles and 1 delver. Pretty obvious I got destroy whole day long. Be prepared to board accordingly for the trials ;-)

    The Legacy tournament was fair. A lot of Miracles, I mean...a lot. French people just love the deck. A lot of BUG Delver, Shardless BUG and Death & Taxes. 4C Loam is very present, too.

    It would be nice to meet you and share our experiences. Who's in?

  15. #295

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Fourbirr View Post
    //Sideboard
    SB: 3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    SB: 2 Containment Priest
    SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap
    SB: 1 Surgical Extraction
    SB: 2 Pyrokinesis
    SB: 2 Relic of Progenitus
    SB: 2 Pithing Needle
    SB: 1 Tin Street Hooligan



    Sideboard plans:

    GOBLIN CHARBELCHER
    -1 Tarfire, -3 Ringleader, -3 Gempalm Incinerator, -1 Stingscourger
    +3 Thalia, +2 Pithing needle («Goblin Charbelcher»), +1 Tin Street Hooligan, +2 Mindbreak Trap

    DREDGE
    -2 Tarfire, -3 Gempalm Incinerator
    +2 Relic of Progenitus, +2 Containment Priest, +1 Surgical Extraction (Bridge from Below, Dread Return)

    ELVES
    -4 Aether Vial, -3 Ringleader, -1 Piledriver, -1 Lackey, -1 Tin Street Hooligan
    +3 Thalia, +2 Pyrokinesis, +2 Containment Priest, +1 Surgical Extraction, +2 Pithing Needle (DRS)

    INFECT
    Tips: Don’t Side out Mogg War Marshall to enable Gempalm.
    -4 Lackey, -1 Skirk Prospector, -1 Piledriver
    +2 Pyrokinesis, +3 Thalia, +1 Stingscourger

    SHOW & TELL / SNEAK & SHOW / OMNITELL
    Tips: Keep a vial on 2 to Stingscourger or Thalia anytime
    -2 Tarfire, -4 Gempalm Incinerator, -3 Ringleader
    +3 Thalia, +2 Containment Priest, +1 Stingscourger, +2 Pithing needle (Sneak Attack/Griselbrand), +1 Surgical Extraction

    STORM
    Tips: Name human with cavern for Thalia
    -2 Tarfire, -4 Ringleader, -4 Gempalm Incinerator
    +3 Thalia, +2 Relic of Progenitus, +2 Pyrokinesis, +2 Mindbreak Trap, +1 Surgical Extraction

    For the record, this list brought me a couple of times into Top 8 at local 20+ people events during the last 2 months. But as my meta is infested with fast combos, I would like to improve a bit.

    What are your thoughts? Vial in or Vial out?
    On Belcher; Bring in pyrokinesis, it does a lot to mitigate dying to empty the warrens. Olaf and I have some a small discussion on this earlier on the thread.

    Dredge; what Steve said makes sense, definitely agree on leaving in removal to kill your own guys and spike a bridge or two

    Elves; I'd say leave in the aether vial, basically because it lets do some really important plays (like porting a cradle) while still getting closer to Sharpshooter. T1 Vial lets you effectively "win" on T4 if you get vial to 3, then vial in warchief and play Matron for Sharpshooter. Mindbreak is worth it in this matchup I think, they basically never play around it and will cast a bunch of Elves then you can nail the NO, GSZ, or 'hoof.

    Infect: Same as Steve said, I'd leave in all the cards you take out. Lackey is one of the few things that scare them. Board out some ringleaders and go for the Sharpshooter lockdown.

    Agree on S&S and Storm.

    If these are decks you run into a lot, I'd consider putting an Ethersworn Canonist in the SB.

    I may possibly make it to Eternal Weekend in Paris, but I'm not sure.

    @Sandro, I really like your perspective on this. As of late, I feel like Therapy is just the absolute best. I think I'm gonna follow you on trying out a very similar 60 to you, though our sideboards will be different because of different metas (and the fact that I don't own Chalice).

    Also haven't been too happy with Copter lately. Might be recency bias, but I think I'm comfortable cutting them at this point. My longstanding experiment ends! I think if you're playing against a somewhat Stoneforge heavy meta they're really good, but that's not quite the case for me anymore. Too many Elves around to play them. I'll leave the match data in the signature if anyone wants to see it. It's still possible that I went wrong cutting the number from 3 to 2, making them less a part of my main game plan, but I'm really not sure.

    EDIT: Alright, I'm a little bit wishy-washy. I was gonna try to goldfish some of Sandro's build, but I first realized that there are no Ports in the deck! I also don't have enough fetches to play Sandro's actual build, so I'll just have to leave it to her for testing (though I do still really like the idea of maindeck therapies in theory). I'm gonna try 1 maindeck pyro and keep 1 copter in. It really helps with consistency, and you can never be color screwed out of casting it! Perhaps 1 is enough, just to catch people off guard occasionally.
    Last edited by 1GoblinLackey; 03-03-2017 at 05:55 PM.
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    Post DRS Goblins MTGO Leagues Only Data

  16. #296
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by 1GoblinLackey View Post
    On Belcher; Bring in pyrokinesis, it does a lot to mitigate dying to empty the warrens. Olaf and I have some a small discussion on this earlier on the thread.

    Dredge; what Steve said makes sense, definitely agree on leaving in removal to kill your own guys and spike a bridge or two

    Elves; I'd say leave in the aether vial, basically because it lets do some really important plays (like porting a cradle) while still getting closer to Sharpshooter. T1 Vial lets you effectively "win" on T4 if you get vial to 3, then vial in warchief and play Matron for Sharpshooter. Mindbreak is worth it in this matchup I think, they basically never play around it and will cast a bunch of Elves then you can nail the NO, GSZ, or 'hoof.

    Infect: Same as Steve said, I'd leave in all the cards you take out. Lackey is one of the few things that scare them. Board out some ringleaders and go for the Sharpshooter lockdown.

    Agree on S&S and Storm.

    If these are decks you run into a lot, I'd consider putting an Ethersworn Canonist in the SB.

    I may possibly make it to Eternal Weekend in Paris, but I'm not sure.

    @Sandro, I really like your perspective on this. As of late, I feel like Therapy is just the absolute best. I think I'm gonna follow you on trying out a very similar 60 to you, though our sideboards will be different because of different metas (and the fact that I don't own Chalice).

    Also haven't been too happy with Copter lately. Might be recency bias, but I think I'm comfortable cutting them at this point. My longstanding experiment ends! I think if you're playing against a somewhat Stoneforge heavy meta they're really good, but that's not quite the case for me anymore. Too many Elves around to play them. I'll leave the match data in the signature if anyone wants to see it. It's still possible that I went wrong cutting the number from 3 to 2, making them less a part of my main game plan, but I'm really not sure.
    Thank you very much for your insightful explanations.

  17. #297
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Fourbirr View Post
    It would be nice to meet you and share our experiences. Who's in?
    Me. You have a PM.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  18. #298
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quick question: best GY-hate at the moment? Any suggestions?
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  19. #299
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatto View Post
    Quick question: best GY-hate at the moment? Any suggestions?
    I've been running 3 surgicals since they cost 0 and can be played T0 making them excellent against fast combo but also solid against grindy recursion decks. The only thing they don't address is Goyf and DRS but we are supposed to outgrind them anyway. Dredge isn't a big player these days so super hate like Leyline doesn't seem necessary. Tormods Crypt and Faerie Macabre also seem reasonable if you feel diversification of grave hate is necessary. Relic and RIP seem slow right now.


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  20. #300
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatto View Post
    Quick question: best GY-hate at the moment? Any suggestions?
    Relic is the graveyard hate with the most utility, but it's less powerful than others in many matchups.
    What sticks out to me about the current metagame when it comes to graveyard hate is the popularity of BR Reanimator. Leyline of the Void is the most powerful option here, but is less useful in other matchups and requires you to have it in your opening hand. Surgical Extraction and Faerie Macabre can be used on turn zero, the Faerie even works through a Chancellor trigger. Crypt and Cage are both fast too. Cage is more of a hard lock, but is less resilient to chancellor.
    I personally like Surgical Extraction and Grafdigger's Cage the most. Both are fast enough to stop Reanimator, and can be used to great results against Lands and Elves respectively. Relic is still great as a versatile option.

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