[Deck] Vial Goblins

[woodjt5]

So taking a proactive beatdown role, rather than a reaction role is better for the matchup? That's interesting, as I would guess that the Goblins role would be to survive the early game via removal, rather than bringing the fight to them.

BUG decks usually have between 0 and 3 outs to Krenko in the entire 75. Good reason to run 2 plus a bunch of haste enablers.

[1GoblinLackey]

BUG decks usually have between 0 and 3 outs to Krenko in the entire 75. Good reason to run 2 plus a bunch of haste enablers.

Krenko's still insane in the matchup for sure, though the fact that they can kill him outside of Deluge now (fatal push) makes him less appealing to me. That's part of why went to Kiki and Siege-Gang again too; Both of them don't die to anything in that deck other than Deluge. Now this is more of a consideration for BUG midrange decks, as the delver variants don't play deluge to my knowledge. But Kiki's surprisingly durable.

I think I've made some adjustments that I'm happy with; I put siege gang in the board, and added a second piledriver. He's better in creature matchups now than he has been in awhile, so I like 2 more than 1. It also lowers the curve, which definitely needed to happen.

My final board looks something like this:
1 Pyro
1 Siege-Gang
1 Sharpshooter
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Blood Moon
3 Chalice
2 Pithing Needle
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Mindbreak Trap
1 Surgical Extraction

I justified cutting Cage despite being afraid of BR Reanimator by adding a relic. There's also the annoying non-bo of Therapy and Cage, which has definitely slowed me down in the past. I feel like my biggest weakness with this configuration is to Sneak and Show variants, especially without Warping Wail. So against them I'll have to board...
+Siege Gang (faster clock off lackey), 3 Chalice (not the best, but stops the cantrips), 2 Therapy (actively good), 2 Needle (actively good), +Surgical (if I therapy a combo piece I can then extract it), +Mindbreak (loose, but can save me sometimes).

I guess we'll see at the event if I get lucky enough to dodge them.

[Olaf Forkbeard]

@Sandro

Thanks, that was a good read. I'm certain there are players who could benefit from that type of information. On my next update I'll put it in the literature section.

---

@1GoblinLackey

The reason Sharpshooter is mentioned as a card that matters in the match is because they MUST answer it. When the game stalls out, due to you killing the Delver or Deathrite, they jam a Goyf and the wait game begins as boards build. Sharpshooter is just amazing in these type of board stalls, as the next creature to die on board generates pressure to push past or through. They simply can't feasibly leave it around and expect to go to creature combat profitably.

The best answer to TNN is not answering it, but being pro-active. Treat it just like a Tarmogoyf and go wide. Piledriver, Krenko, Siege-Gang, etc... These are all great here. I agree with Gobolord on Carpet of Flowers. If your mana base can afford it, it simply feels like they can't answer all of your "AEther Vials." The card inherently is attempting to create non-games, so don't be too surprised that games you play against it feel like one sided affairs one way or the other.

I actually feel better about racing Sneak & Show now due to them using Kozilek's Return as their board wipe. It being an instant is a bummer, but I'm actually able to get some purchase on my damage pushing now that it's slower. 3 Thalia, 2 Pithing, 1 Sting has been Just barely what I've needed for the match. In your case Chalice is still good, not to mention Cabal Therapy. I think you have the minimum tools for the job.

---

@Everyone

I've been meaning to update the match-up section with information about TNN-Leovold.bugDeck, and was simply waiting until a local player picked up the deck to get some testing. I found out that no one in my area is running it, so it will have to wait until I get it proxied up and find someone who I trust is skilled enough, and cares about the deck in some capacity, to get meaningful data on it. I have very little experience in the match-up compared to what I would have hoped at this point. If someone else happens to get to play against their local TNN-Leovold.bugDeck player often, could please share what you've experienced? Cross hatching information is always good.

[Sandro95]

Nice article Sandro! Applying a lesson from it regarding narrow, but powerful sideboard cards; Two matchups I'm looking to improve for my board is BUG Delver (which I expect will be very popular in Paris, and am scared of), and Burn. The knock-out punch cards for BUG usually involve Moon effects, hence the Blood Moon and Magus of Moon in the side. However, what else could be added that's strong against them? The Primer says that Sharpshooter is impactful, but I don't really see how. It doesn't kill any of their creatures beside snapcaster without help, and is atrocious with a Leovold in play. Looking at Olaf's data set, BUG Delver is quite a difficult matchup, and having played it a couple times, I definitely feel like I have to get lucky to some degree to win. It is nice that hymns are getting shaved for Fatal Push, so that's a bonus at least. Is Chalice worth it in this matchup (my instinct says no). Does anyone have any good tech for them?

As for burn, I don't really know what's good besides Chalice. Perhaps this is a matchup to just one to dodge? Therapy is decent, but also seems awkward in that it exposes you to Price of Progress. Zuran Orb seems way too narrow. Pyro's great against the creature draw, but what helps with the burn-heavy draws?

The top 5 decks I'm expecting for the record are; Miracles, BUG Delver, D&T, Grixis Delver, and BR Reanimator. Maybe Storm/Sneak and Show but we'll see. I feel slightly overboarded for reanimator (9-10 cards to bring in), and underboarded for the Delver decks. Burn and the random combo decks also scare me, but that's reasonable given what I'm playing

EDIT: Some other concerns; I have no out to a TNN, other than Earwigging them out of the opps deck. Should I be jamming in pyroblasts to combat this? The fact that Miracles is playing 3-4 Red Blast effects in response to the rise of BUG and TNN tells me that it's necessary to answer. I could also just go deeper on moon effects and play 3. I also might be overthinking this and just posting my circular thinking as I argue with myself. I've never played at an event of nearly this size, so I'm not sure whether to have a balanced sideboard, or try to aggressively go after the 'decks to beat' and ignore others.

Hi, I'm glad you liked the article. :)

I think Chalice is good against some builds of BUG Delver. Generally speaking I would say it is better against the ones with more blue than against the black heavy builds.

I have found therapy to be quite good against Burn. If you draw it early you can often take away two to three cards from them, buying you quite a bit of time. One card I've been wanting to try in this matchup is Collective Brutality. It seems like it could do some work.

If you're already playing with the black splash I highly recommend Warren Weirding as an answer to TNN.

[Fourbirr]

Hi everyone! I wrote an article about building sideboards in Legacy. It's not specifically about Goblins, although some of the examples I use are from my experiences with this deck.
Either way, here it is. I hope you enjoy it!

Sideboarding in Legacy

Hi Sandro,

Cool article. I especially liked that part:

"If you can’t answer your opponent’s threats, take the proactive approach and force them to have the answer instead."

So very true. Sometimes, we must accept to sacrifice this Piledriver or Hastelord for their decay in order to put a Krenko or Siege-Gang later that will stay on the board.

[Fourbirr]

I share your few on BUG Delver, it will be a popular choice for Paris and it's a difficult MU.
As for the tech, I really think Blood Moon is too clunky and you ha e to get lucky to knock your opponent out with that.
I discussed this MU with ScatmanX and we found that it's a valid strategy to overload your opponent with threats. You will lose the MU when they can handle all of your stuff, while deploying a fast or even mediocre clock. However, building up your Team is critical here, hence I would suggest to play as many Piledrivers, Chieftains, Krenko and SGCs as you can.
Also, against Delver decks in general I found Carpet of Flowers extremely good. The games you lose are those where you cant get into the game - where you cant put you feet on solid ground. It's not uncommon to lose the games with a Ringleader and a Matron in hand. Carpet not only helps you casting those, but it also frees up your manadenial to some degree

I approve GoboLord's assumption deeply. The meta in Paris will be mainly full of BUGs/4C control, Miracles and D&T, with some Shardless and Reanimator decks, without forgetting Eldrazis/Eldrazi&Taxes that become more and more popular. Piledriver+hastelords+Krenko/Siege-Gang will save our life there.

With this meta, Pyroblast is really appealing and should have 1-2 slots in the sideboard to counter/kill our worst nightmares: TNN, Delver, Leovold, Jace, Snapcaster Mage.

My local meta in full of BUG/4C decks and I can confirm the strategy that you discussed with ScatmanX and what Olaf once explained me. Against this match-up, we need to overload the board and wait to make one big swing, if possible with piledriver on play to pass their blue blockers. We have more creatures than them and probably can cast/play them at a steady pace with cavern or vial. We have enough removals for their shaman or delver and with some Mogg War Marshall, we can block their goyf all night long. The real problem here is discard spells like Hymn to Tourach or Thoughtseize that empty our hand and Snapcaster flashbacks that will kill our threats. If they start with a shaman, than waste our land and decay our vial. We probably won't come back from that. But except this "champagne" start, this match up is winnable.

I have a question to everyone. Do you feel ready against Death & Taxes 2.0 (Recruiter of the Guard, Sanctum Prelate, Thalia Heretic Catar)? There are pretty cool Flickerwisp shenanigans explained on Thraben University website, see here. It is worth to read it to be better prepared of what could happen out of nowhere.

[ScatmanX]

@Fourbirr: One important thing about the applying pressure plan against those decks is that it doesn't work well with the Pyroblast plan. With blast you have to keep R open at all times to counter that TNN or Snapcaster, therefore delaying your threats. It's a reactive card, where we want to be pro-active. If they're in play already, nothing blast can do. Against Jace and Delver, we can simply kill them with removal/combat so that's a lesser issue. I don't recommend playing Pyroblast against those decks.

Regarding DnT, I think the MU became even more favourable to us than before. To fit Recruiter and Prelate most DnT cut some of the beef of the deck, like Serra Avenger, that is one of their best cards against us. Prelate is just bad. Recruiter is ok, but don't turn things to their favour. I mean, we run 4 of those already, plus a lot more CA and removal.

[Fourbirr]

@Fourbirr: One important thing about the applying pressure plan against those decks is that it doesn't work well with the Pyroblast plan. With blast you have to keep R open at all times to counter that TNN or Snapcaster, therefore delaying your threats. It's a reactive card, where we want to be pro-active. If they're in play already, nothing blast can do. Against Jace and Delver, we can simply kill them with removal/combat so that's a lesser issue. I don't recommend playing Pyroblast against those decks.

Hi ScatmanX,

Thank you for the advice, I certainly need to think it twice. However, I'm prone to think that in a 30+ creatures deck, having one R open once in a while for pyroblast can save our life against a second TNN or kill a Leovold where Tarfire can't. Usually, I prefer to save Gempalm for Gurmag Angler, Tombstalker or Tarmogoyf. Generally speaking, it's not that tempo decks are so fast that we need to kill them T3, 4 or 5 or we die, like against combo decks. Applying a pressure also comes from allowing us to build some board presence and keeping them to apply theirs.

A True Name Nemesis equipped with Jitte is pretty much GG for our opponent. Why would we want to allow that when we have access to red counters? Exception made for Gempalm being uncounterable, our removals often get dazed, forced or spell pierced. Hence, as we board Pyrokinesis against BUG MU, we lose a card during pitching, decrease our card advantage, while they strengthen theirs with Leovold triggers.

I think that Pyroblast/Red Elemental Blast is the answer at the moment in a blue-heavy meta and that we can't count on pure pressure with our creatures. Since Aether Revolt, they get rid more than before with Fatal Push and it's difficult to keep a hastelord, piledriver or Krenko alive.

Regarding DnT, I think the MU became even more favourable to us than before. To fit Recruiter and Prelate most DnT cut some of the beef of the deck, like Serra Avenger, that is one of their best cards against us. Prelate is just bad. Recruiter is ok, but don't turn things to their favour. I mean, we run 4 of those already, plus a lot more CA and removal.

As a Death & Taxes player "in progress", I love to read blogs, forums, articles about this deck. I think it has similar very interesting corner case interactions like Goblins can have, and it's a much stronger deck that made its proof as a deck-to-beat since many years now. Like for us, as BUG decks are flooding the meta right now, they adapt and favor creatures with evasion like 4 Flickerwisps and 2 Serra Avengers in order to confront Delver or avoid him completely with an equipped SoFI. And she is "almost" fatal push-proof, while the others white creatures get blocked on the ground. Since Fatal Push came out, they run 2 Mirran Crusaders main deck for the protection against black. A Mirran Crusader equipped with SoFI is 10 damages each time he attacks. It reminds me that Tuktuk will be very slow here.

Depending on the Death & Taxes player skills, this match-up can be either very easy or a total prison. In Paris, expect some very good Death & Taxes players. Last year BOM top-8 Arnaud Aubert made 3rd place with the deck. He got only crushed by the BR Reanimator winner.

That being said, I have to playtest more!!!!!

What do you think about this sideboard for the trials (combos everywhere)

3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Containment Priest
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Surgical Extraction

And for the main event (Miracles, BUGs everywhere)

3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Containment Priest
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Stingscourger
1 Tin Street Hooligan
2 Pyroblast
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Pithing Needle

Against BUG, I'm not sure if this sideboard is optimized, though. Maybe I should rather bring this:

[1GoblinLackey]

Given the abundance of D&T hate in the format at the moment (mostly in the form of Dread of Night), does the white splash carry the weight that it normally does? I think that canny Storm players will probably bring DoN in against us in game 2 situations, and getting your hate preemptively picked off seems rough. I know that for sure I'm gonna do my best to make my opponents think that I'm playing Thalia (maybe name cavern on Human at some point if the game is locked up in either direction, or at least try to have them not see Badlands). Chalice seems more resilient to me.

Continuing with our discussion on boarding plans, I have to ask: What do we board out against these decks? I've had a change of heart and decided to maindeck a warping wail over pyrokinesis, for a couple of reasons. I now feel that I have a decent game 1 shot against Storm, as turn 3 EWS basically ends the game on the spot. Warping Wail makes getting to that turn 3 easier. I also like it for its ability to counter Hymn to Tourach and Toxic Deluge, cards that I expect to see a lot. My chances against Elves aren't hurt to badly either; they may be able to build up a board more easily, but I can counter NO now.

Total Board (finalized)
2 Pyro
1 Siege Gang
1 Blood Moon
1 Sharpshooter
3 Chalice
1 Warren Weirding
2 Needle
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Relic
1 Surgical
So! Imagining I'm playing against BUG Delver, the cards I want to bring in are:

Game 2 on the play:
+1 Pyro, 1 Siege Gang, 1 Blood Moon, 1 Sharpshooter, 1 Warren Weirding
Out: -1 Stingscourger, -1 Piledriver...? EWS is another possible cut, but it seems wrong as it deals with TNNs and possible Jitte still in the deck. -1 Tarfire perhaps? -1 Lackey? That makes the numbers add up at least, but I'd really like to leave EWS in the deck. It's a strong threat and nullifies the scariest parts of their deck. Perhaps the second sharpshooter is not necessary?

On the draw (this is a lot easier): -4 Lackey, -1 Stingscourger. Maybe Siege Gang is too slow to bring in here, so I could swap that out with a Relic if they are on a 4 Goyf version.

Does any of this change if they're on the midrange version without Delver?

[GoboLord]

Since this is relevant for interacting with Leovold I m asking the question here as well:

you cylce Gempalm Incinerator for 3 dmg targeting Leovold. 2 triggers will be put on the stack: the damage and the draw. My question is whether we actually have control over which trigger goes on the stack first. 99% it doesn’t even matter but in this scenario, when the draw resolves first than Leovold still permits that draw.

Btw. Those of you going to BOM Paris should preregister, as the number of seats is limited.

[Olaf Forkbeard]

Leovold dies, then you get to draw a card.

Cycle Gempalm, discarding itself as a cost. This hops on the stack.
Gempalms triggered ability goes on the stack targeting Leovold.
Leovold's triggered ability goes on the stack to draw a card for being targeted.

Then the stack resolves.

Leovold's ability resolves, drawing the owner a card.
Gempalms Triggered ability resolves.
State based actions put Leovold in the yard.
Gempalm's cycle resolves, allowing you to draw a card.


At no point here does anyone choose to stack triggers, they all fall into place due to the base rules. Active Player, then Non-Active Player (APNAP) take control of this one.

It should be mentioned that Leovold's second, anti draw, ability is a replacement affect, not a trigger. It happens, or in this case doesn't, so long as he is out.



In the case where two, or more, triggered abilities go on the stack at the same time a few things can happen.

If they are both controlled by you, you choose the order.

If they are both controlled by your opponent, they choose the order.

If you both control one, the active player (whoever's turn it is) get's theirs on the stack FIRST, meaning the opponents resolves first.


Hope that helps.

[Fourbirr]

Leovold dies, then you get to draw a card.

Cycle Gempalm, discarding itself as a cost. This hops on the stack.
Gempalms triggered ability goes on the stack targeting Leovold.
Leovold's tirggered ability goes on the stack to draw a card for being targeted.

Then the stack resolves.

Leovold's ability resolves, drawing the owner a card.
Gempalms Triggered ability resolves.
State based actions put Leovold in the yard.
Gempalm's cycle resolves, allowing you to draw a card.


At no point here does anyone choose to stack triggers, they all fall into place due to the base rules. Active Player, then Non-Active Player (APNAP) take control of this one.

It should be mentioned that Leovold's second, anti draw, ability is a replacement affect, not a trigger. It happens, or in this case doesn't, so long as he is out.



In the case where two, or more, triggered abilities go on the stack at the same time a few things can happen.

If they are both controlled by you, you choose the order.

If they are both controlled by your opponent, he chooses the order.

If you both control one, the active player (whoever's turn it is) get's theirs on the stack FIRST, meaning the opponents resolves first.


Hope that helps.

Perfect! It helps a lot. Then I can go to my 4C sparring partner and tell him I was right to argue that I still can draw a card by cycling Gempalm on his Leo. We have to master this ruling, since incinerating Leovold will become the next national goblin sport after the move of the goblin squad to the BOM.

[1GoblinLackey]

So I did a bunch of testing against 4C Loam and BUG Delver with some friends tonight, and boy oh boy are these matchups tough to win. Similar to BUG, I think 4C Loam demands that we get attacking and get attacking quickly. They will absolutely grind us out with Punishing Fires and then kill in a single swing with a gigantic KoTR. I think both these decks will be popular in Paris, so I've made changes to make them as favorable as possible game 1. This has mostly involved ticking up the number of Piledrivers to 3 and adding a chieftain for a warchief (2-2 split now). I have to ask what the idea is in running Kiki-Jiki outside of the combo finish. I never could get to 5 mana consistently, and if I did, I was using that mana for other things. What matchups are people playing Kiki for? I had originally had him for the BUG matchup, but now that I've played it a bunch, he's way too slow.

I felt like my curve was wayyy too high as well. I'd go from a solid early game position to losing because I couldn't cast anything for a couple turns. My vial was abrupt decayed, and I never had anything to put into play in response unless it was already on 3. I've shaved the Kiki and now my only finisher is a Krenko, with a Siege-Gang in the sideboard. Anyone want to defend Kiki to me? I'm scrolling through a meta breakdown and struggling to think of a matchup where I really want him. All the wasteland decks make him too ambitious to cast, and he doesn't do much more than any other finishers against combo. The only deck I'd like him against really is D&T, and even then I usually cut him in sideboarding because he's vulnerable to Karakas. I'm now perplexed that most of the top Goblin finishes run him and siege-gang maindeck. What am I missing here?

I also had a fairly negative experience with Warren Weirding. I brought it in against BUG for TNN and 4C Loam for Knight, but in both cases they had another creature to sac, making it feel pretty bad. The chances that you actually get to kill the creature you want to seem pretty low to me.

Here's the list I'm going with now. I'm still not happy with my sideboard, but that might always be the case. Need to fit in 2 more chalices, and not sure what to remove. I might just take a black-red lists' sideboard from someone else because I think I'm at the point where nothing will feel right unless it's just handed to me.

16 Core (Vial, Lackey, Matron, Ringleader)
3 Piledriver
3 Gempalm
2 MWM
2 Warchief
2 Chieftain
1 Krenko
1 Sharpshooter
1 Stingscourger
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Earwig
1 Tuktuk

2 Tarfire
1 Pyrokinesis

5 R-Fetches
4 Cavern
4 Wasteland
4 Mountain
3 Port
2 Badlands
1 Karakas

Sideboard
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Pyro
1 Sharpshooter
1 Siege-Gang
1 Tuktuk
1 Blood Moon
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Chalice
1 Pyroblast
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Relic
1 Surgical
1 Pithing Needle
1 Mindbreak

Obviously some of these 1ofs should be trimmed. But which ones? I'm also tempted to just ignore the chalice completely and go all in on Therapies (or maybe add a thoughtseize). That might be crazy though, and I'll just get run over by Burn and spell combo like storm.

[Fourbirr]

Hi 1GoblinLackey,

[...]They will absolutely grind us out with Punishing Fires and then kill in a single swing with a gigantic KoTR.[...]

Yeah, that's why I love Relic of Progenitus to constantly target their graveyard or empty it in case of emergency, with a Surgical Extraction in back up. If they pull punishing back into their hand, you exile it in response. You remove one half of their win condition. Grafdigger's Cage does not. You'll improve this match-up with Relic of Progenitus, Faerie Macabre or Leyline of the Void.

[...]This has mostly involved ticking up the number of Piledrivers to 3 and adding a chieftain for a warchief (2-2 split now).[...]

Ouh yeah, piledriver is in good shape right now and I think we need 3 or 4, but it's hard to find room for him, as one slot for Chieftain seems necessary against Death/Eldrazis&Taxes, or to fight an unanswered Mentor. I have doubts about the 2-2 warchief/chieftain split, though. According to what was discussed and recommended by ScatmanX, Olaf and GoboLord, in the current meta, we want pressure. If we cut piledrivers and warchief, we lack pressure. I've you ever experienced a warchief on board and two piledrivers in your hand with caverns? You drop the two PDs, attack and that's 12 damages. with 3 creatures. We can't achieve that with Chieftain. In this case, only 1 PD would lands and you'll swing for 6 damages. Piledrivers are too explosives! They have protection from Leovold, TNN, Delver, Snapcaster, Vendillion Clique, Shardless, Baleful/Parasit Strix, Tidespout Tyran and cut the opposing non-blue fatties in half. He won't stay long on the battlefield, though, because there is a lot of value decks with a lot of removals. I don't really know what is the right count for piledriver now.

@Olaf: Any suggestions?

[...]I had originally had him for the BUG matchup, but now that I've played it a bunch, he's way too slow. [...]

I strongly share the same thought about Kiki-Jiki and cut him 2 days ago for the exact same reason. He rarely lands and, unlike Siege-Gang, a Kiki-Jiki out of Lackey damages makes pretty nothing. Kiki-Jiki is a beast in a Winstigator list, and they can handle the RRR with more red sources and Chrome Moxes. But in ours, he is too slow. I could give numerous examples where he was not wanted in my opening hand or did pretty poorly once on the battlefield, because the board was already stable. Of course, if he can live, that's another story...but it rarely happens. In general, I think it's wise to follow Jim Davis advices and choose goblins that have an impact on the battlefield as soon as they arrive. In my opinion, that's why Siege-Gang is and will stay our goblin commander, because he is really the king of the party. Instead Kiki-Jiki, why not run a second Siege-Gang in the 75? Max Tietze or Jim did that some years ago. The videos of their matches speak for themselves, when the second one landed, GG.

[...]I also had a fairly negative experience with Warren Weirding. I brought it in against BUG for TNN and 4C Loam for Knight, but in both cases they had another creature to sac, making it feel pretty bad. The chances that you actually get to kill the creature you want to seem pretty low to me.[...]

Man, again, I share the same experiences as you. I suppose it's the natural path for those tuning their deck to find the best removal suit. Maybe Sandro can give you some tip how he optimizes Warren Weirding target? With multiple DRS/Delver on our opponent's side, it's not easy.
I think it's not wrong to affirm that the current meta is full of blue decks. Even Food Chain and Food Griffin make a come back since Walking Ballista came out. Warchief+Piledriver help us to be fast and apply a lot of pressure.

[...]Obviously some of these 1ofs should be trimmed. But which ones? I'm also tempted to just ignore the chalice completely and go all in on Therapies (or maybe add a thoughtseize). That might be crazy though, and I'll just get run over by Burn and spell combo like storm.[...]

Among 294 players, there were only 11 decks in Paris last year. that's not even 4% of all decks played. Don't focus too much on them, as you can probably dodge this MU.

[Fourbirr]

Hello everybody,

Please, notice that the BOM main Legacy event is full.

See you there,
Fourbirr

[Sandro95]

Here's the list I'm going with now. I'm still not happy with my sideboard, but that might always be the case. Need to fit in 2 more chalices, and not sure what to remove. I might just take a black-red lists' sideboard from someone else because I think I'm at the point where nothing will feel right unless it's just handed to me.

16 Core (Vial, Lackey, Matron, Ringleader)
3 Piledriver
3 Gempalm
2 MWM
2 Warchief
2 Chieftain
1 Krenko
1 Sharpshooter
1 Stingscourger
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Earwig
1 Tuktuk

2 Tarfire
1 Pyrokinesis

5 R-Fetches
4 Cavern
4 Wasteland
4 Mountain
3 Port
2 Badlands
1 Karakas

Sideboard
2 Cabal Therapy
1 Pyro
1 Sharpshooter
1 Siege-Gang
1 Tuktuk
1 Blood Moon
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Chalice
1 Pyroblast
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Relic
1 Surgical
1 Pithing Needle
1 Mindbreak

Obviously some of these 1ofs should be trimmed. But which ones? I'm also tempted to just ignore the chalice completely and go all in on Therapies (or maybe add a thoughtseize). That might be crazy though, and I'll just get run over by Burn and spell combo like storm.

In general I don't think two Cabal Therapies are worth it. You need a lot of black sources to be able to consistently cast it on turn one, which is very important in the combo matchups that are the main reason to play with Therapy in the first place. If you don't adjust your mana base, Therapy simply isn't as good as it would otherwise be, and you don't want to change your entire mana bas (losing out on Ports/Karakas etc.) for just two therapies. That doesn't mean that it's never correct to play two Therapies (I've done it), just that mana considerations are important to keep in mind.

I like the following 1ofs in your sideboard:
1 Pyrokinesis
1 Sharpshooter
1 Siege-Gang
1 Tuktuk

The 1of Chalice and Mindbreak Trap both have the advantage of making it difficult for your opponent to play around them. If your Burn opponent knows you're playing four CotV for example, they can just bring in their Smash to Smithereens and be done with it. If they bring it in against a single Chalice however it is more likely than not that Smash will be a dead card. This means that the games where you do draw Chalice it will be a lot better for you, since they likely won't have an answer for it. It is the same with Mindbreak Trap vs Storm and their discard spells, although Storm will likely be keeping in some number of those anyway, and they have Probe to spoil the surprise that is Mindbreak Trap.

A second reason to only play one Chalice is that it has quite a bit of diminishing returns. Often you want to play one on a specific number (usually one), and then that's it. Sure, a second CotV @2 can be quite good against some decks, but the first one is the most important.
However, CotV also comes with some deck building/game play restrictions/guidelines. This is mostly relevant in the combo matchups, where a lot of your hate cards are often cmc 1.
The biggest reason to play more Chalices in my opinion however is that is really just a great card.

I can see the allure of Mindbreak Trap, but it is also the kind of card that people tend to play after losing to Belcher type decks.
If you do play it, make sure that it's a calculated decision and that you're not just succumbing to an irrational fear of losing to fast decks/not being in control of the game.

I think Blood Moon is better than Magus, and would play 2 copies over the 1-1 split if you have the cards to do so.

Pithing Needle is quite good right now as well, if I were you I'd try to fit a second copy in the sideboard.

[Sandro95]

Man, again, I share the same experiences as you. I suppose it's the natural path for those tuning their deck to find the best removal suit. Maybe Sandro can give you some tip how he optimizes Warren Weirding target? With multiple DRS/Delver on our opponent's side, it's not easy.

That does come up sometimes, but in general I believe we are favored going long vs most TNN decks, as long as we can deal with TNN (just like we have inevitability vs D&T if we can answer Jitte & SoFI). I usually take the control role in these matchups and try to exhaust their resources before overwhelming them with goblins. It helps to have a plan for how to deal with TNN [i]before[i] it hits the battlefield. Make some trades in combat to make WW more effective, set up a powerful Sharpshooter turn, use your life total as a resource. Then try to finish them off before they find a second TNN. Correctly identifying your role (and when it changes) is very important in these matchups.

[Fourbirr]

[...]Correctly identifying your role (and when it changes) is very important in these matchups.

Thank you for your answer. You are probably referring to one of the most important article ever written who's the beatdown? Misinterpreting our role almost invariably lead to a loss.

[Olaf Forkbeard]

@ Fourbirr

I actually think Chieftain is worse against Death & Taxes style decks than Warchief, by a noticeable chunk. He's way better against decks that don't have 1 mana kill spells AND decks that don't have 2/1 first strikers. I think Chieftain shines in BUG match-ups in all honesty. I like running Chieftain as a 1 of in those scenario's as a tutor target (3/1 or 4/1 split on Wachief and Chieftain). But the deck is in a weird place right now for numbers. We almost want a 61 card maindeck to be able to have the card selection needed for the meta. 1 Shatter Goblin, 1-2 Finisher Goblins, 1 Sharpshooter, 1 Stingscourger, etc.

I've been on the 4 Piledriver plan for most of my experiences with the deck, so I might be biased in my play style, and I generally prefer the corner turning power of naturally drawing him more than opening up space for other choices. Back when Shardless was the most common deck Piledriver was at his worst. Interestingly if you expect far more TNN instead of Shardless (as I think you should) then 4 Piledriver gets better and better. But again, I've been biased on this before and not noticed until it was far too late, I really like the card.

[Fourbirr]

Hi Olaf,

Thank you for these explanations and for sharing your experience. I'll take that into consideration for this week-end.