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Thread: [Deck] Vial Goblins

  1. #41
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by 1GoblinLackey
    MB:
    4 Wasteland
    1 Cavern
    2 Ghost Quarter
    1 Port
    1 Pendelhaven
    14 Mountain

    4 Lackey
    1 Skirk Prospector
    3 Piledriver
    3 War Marshal
    4 Warchief
    1 Chieftain
    1 Sharpshooter
    4 Matron
    4 Ringleader
    1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper

    1 Stingscourger
    1 Gempalm
    2 Tarfire
    2 Pyrokinesis
    SB:
    3 Pithing Needle
    3 Relic
    1 Gempalm
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    1 Pyrokinesis
    2 REB
    1 Siege-Gang
    1 Sharpshooter
    1 Warping Wail
    With your exact list against the Maverick build you mentioned:

    Play
    +2 Needle, +2 Relic, +1 Scrapper | With matron that gives you 10 ways to find an answer to an equipment, and a couple of relics to shrink mid-late game Knights.
    -2 Pile, -1 Warchief, -1 Mogg, -1 Sting | You have natural tempo from being on the play, you don't need the Mogg for defense nearly as much. I think the boarded cards are just barely, and I mean just, better than the Stingscourger. Past that you don't want to overboard.
    Draw
    +2 Needle, +2 Relic, +1 Scrapper, +1 Pyro, +1 Gem
    -4 Lackey, -2 Pile, -1 Sting | On the draw the Pyro looks better due to the natural loss in tempo. Lackey is pretty poor against maverick on the draw, so just axe him, and lastly I would imagine the Gempalm being better than the Sting here, but that's up in the air.

    There is also a pretty good argument for bringing in Siege-Gang over Krenko, as Karakas was sitting in his list. You can't go much further due to keeping that Goblin Count high.

    I think the bigger issue here is your board. It's a piece.

    Gempalm in a weird card in the board. I think he is just maindeck or out. If you are going to run a SB cards, it usually needs to fix a problem, and you have a fine number of kill spells in your main.

    Next, you don't have a board plan really, that I could see anyway. When I'm building my sideboard, I am not just jamming cards that are good against things in there. I figure out what I can take out as well.

    An example of this actually is as follows. I had 2 Pithing, 1 Tin Street and 3 Pyro's in my board. I was debating if I were to put 2 Wear // Tear's in my board for both equipment and Moat, and they'd go over a non-mentioned SB slot. After doing the math I found that means I have 8 cards I really wanted against D&T, and I did not have 8 cards to take out. On the play I'd board 6 cards, and on the draw I'd board 7. That means I am wasting SB space if that extra 1 or 2 cards didn't get used strongly in other matches. Since they were for Moat specifically, and Miracles is a positive match-up I ended up cutting them for some other card that affected a match-up I didn't have covered.

    When I look at your SB I see sweet cards, to be sure, but you need to have a gameplan for them all, and it's probably best to come up with it during deck design.

    I'm a little worried about your combo hate, or there lack of. You have grave hate, which is the easy one, and 2 REB + Sting, which is the bare minimum basically against Show & Tell, but what is your actual plan if someone comes at you with Storm, or Omnitell? If you are on a budget as you implied, grab some Pyrostatic Pillars, (about 3) and jam 'em in there. They'll come in against spell based aggro, and do some good work. If you can get Eidolon of the Great Revel, do him instead.
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  2. #42

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Olaf Forkbeard View Post
    With your exact list against the Maverick build you mentioned:

    Play
    +2 Needle, +2 Relic, +1 Scrapper | With matron that gives you 10 ways to find an answer to an equipment, and a couple of relics to shrink mid-late game Knights.
    -2 Pile, -1 Warchief, -1 Mogg, -1 Sting | You have natural tempo from being on the play, you don't need the Mogg for defense nearly as much. I think the boarded cards are just barely, and I mean just, better than the Stingscourger. Past that you don't want to overboard.
    Draw
    +2 Needle, +2 Relic, +1 Scrapper, +1 Pyro, +1 Gem
    -4 Lackey, -2 Pile, -1 Sting | On the draw the Pyro looks better due to the natural loss in tempo. Lackey is pretty poor against maverick on the draw, so just axe him, and lastly I would imagine the Gempalm being better than the Sting here, but that's up in the air.

    There is also a pretty good argument for bringing in Siege-Gang over Krenko, as Karakas was sitting in his list. You can't go much further due to keeping that Goblin Count high.

    I think the bigger issue here is your board. It's a piece.

    Gempalm in a weird card in the board. I think he is just maindeck or out. If you are going to run a SB cards, it usually needs to fix a problem, and you have a fine number of kill spells in your main.

    Next, you don't have a board plan really, that I could see anyway. When I'm building my sideboard, I am not just jamming cards that are good against things in there. I figure out what I can take out as well.

    An example of this actually is as follows. I had 2 Pithing, 1 Tin Street and 3 Pyro's in my board. I was debating if I were to put 2 Wear // Tear's in my board for both equipment and Moat, and they'd go over a non-mentioned SB slot. After doing the math I found that means I have 8 cards I really wanted against D&T, and I did not have 8 cards to take out. On the play I'd board 6 cards, and on the draw I'd board 7. That means I am wasting SB space if that extra 1 or 2 cards didn't get used strongly in other matches. Since they were for Moat specifically, and Miracles is a positive match-up I ended up cutting them for some other card that affected a match-up I didn't have covered.

    When I look at your SB I see sweet cards, to be sure, but you need to have a gameplan for them all, and it's probably best to come up with it during deck design.

    I'm a little worried about your combo hate, or there lack of. You have grave hate, which is the easy one, and 2 REB + Sting, which is the bare minimum basically against Show & Tell, but what is your actual plan if someone comes at you with Storm, or Omnitell? If you are on a budget as you implied, grab some Pyrostatic Pillars, (about 3) and jam 'em in there. They'll come in against spell based aggro, and do some good work. If you can get Eidolon of the Great Revel, do him instead.
    Thanks so much for the boarding advice! I'll definitely keep that in mind for the next matches I play. The in vs out ratio is an important to keep in mind for deckbuilding for sure.
    My lack of spell-based combo hate mainly comes from the fact that basically no one in the local meta plays combo. There is an elves player, but the pyro's should assist enough for that. Warping wail counters Natural Order too, so that's a possibility. The 1 combo deck is the worst one of them all though...belcher. He literally learned the deck last monday, so maybe I can count on pilot error a little bit. Once I get them, I am definitely putting 3 chalices in my board, which I think helps tune up the board a good bit. My current hope if I play against Belcher is pithing needle the belcher, get a sharpshooter for Empty, and pray he doesn't hit the tendrils. I suppose Warping Wail also helps there because I can counter the burning wish.

    For the record, my local meta is quite bizarre and erratic, because it's mostly people with multiple decks. One guy is even playing a mono blue control deck that hasn't been updated in 10 years or so. His win condition is a single Morphling. I haven't played against him yet, but I'm looking forward to some very very old school magic.

    After typing all of this, I remembered that a friend is also playing sneak and show. We've played a bunch of times, and I've only dropped a single game. Maybe variance, but the matchup actually felt pretty good.

  3. #43
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Hey guys, I really love legacy goblins and would love to learn how to play it better. Any suggestions on resources to learn the general principles (e.g. T1 Vial vs Lackey, when not to play Warchief, when to hold back Piledrivers/Matrons, etc)? And any good match vids you would recommend?

  4. #44

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Caspid View Post
    Hey guys, I really love legacy goblins and would love to learn how to play it better. Any suggestions on resources to learn the general principles (e.g. T1 Vial vs Lackey, when not to play Warchief, when to hold back Piledrivers/Matrons, etc)? And any good match vids you would recommend?
    Read the Primer would be a nice start;)
    There is lot of information on youtube.
    Just search for legacy goblins or goblins scg live and you will find tons of information about our little green angry men

  5. #45
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Hello fellow Warchiefs,

    quick tournament report (my first event in 3 months ).

    The list:

    LANDS (23)
    4 Caverns of Souls
    4 Wasteland
    4 Rishadan Port
    1 Pendelhaven
    2 Mountain
    1 Snow-Covered Mountain
    2 Taiga
    5 R-Fetches

    CORE (16)
    4 Aether Vial
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Ringleader

    Rest of the bunch (21)
    4 Goblin Warchief
    4 Mogg War Marshal
    4 Gempalm Incinerator
    3 Krenko, Mob Boss
    2 Pyrokinesis
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Tin Street Hooligan
    1 Skirk Prospector
    1 Sylvan Library

    SIDEBOARD (15)
    3 Blood Moon
    3 Pithing Needle
    3 Carpet of Flowers
    2 Siege-Gang Commander
    2 Tuktuk, the Explorer
    1 Pyrokinesis
    1 Dismember

    Round 1: [otd] Deathblade (2-0)
    -1 Sylvan Library, -2 Pyrokinesis, -1 Stingscourger
    +3 Blood Moon, +1 Dismember

    *not sure if it is correct to board out library here. couldn't really touch the rest though and Dismember seemed better than Library*

    Round 2: [otp] Aluren (2-0)
    -1 Skirk Prospector
    +1 Carpet of Flowers


    Round 3: [otp]UR Delver (1-2)
    -1 Sylvan Library, -1 Tin-Street Hooligan
    +1 Pyrokinesis, +1 Dismember

    *he is flooded in G1, I take mull to 5 and 4 in G2 and G3*

    Round 4: [otd] Wb Death & Taxes (2-0)
    -4 Goblin Lackey, -1 Stingscourger, -1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    +3 Pithing Needle, +1 Dismember, +1 Pyrokinesis, +1 Dismember, +1 Siege-Gang Commander


    Round 5: [otd] Death & Taxes (2-1)
    -4 Goblin Lackey, -1 Stingscourger, -1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    +3 Pithing Needle, +1 Dismember, +1 Pyrokinesis, +1 Dismember, +1 Siege-Gang Commander


    Round 6: [otd] Elves (2-1)
    -2 Krenko, Mob Boss, -1 Stingscourger, -1 Ringleader, -1 Sylvan Library
    +3 Blood Moon, +1 Pyrokinesis, +1 Dimember

    *highlight in G3: On my turn 3 his board is: Llanowar Elves, Birchlore Rangers, Heritage Druid, Wirewood Symbiote, Cavern of Souls, Gaea's Cradle.
    I have two lands in play and my hand is: Krenko, Mob Boss, Mogg War Marshal, Blood Moon, Pyrokinesis, Mountain. I kill his entire board wit Kinesis, drop Blood Moon and he concedes.*

    Top 4: [otp] Aggro Loam (2-0)
    -4 Goblin Lackey, -1 Tin-Street Hooligan, -1 Skirk Prospector, -2 Pyrokinesis
    +3 Blood Moon, +1 Dimember, +2 Siege-Gang Commander, +2 Tuktuk, the Explorer

    *highlight in G2: on turn 6 I put Siege-Gang Commander into play at EOT, attack with everything (had another 4 tokens from 2 MWMs) and my opponent wipes my board with Swords to Plowshares + Golgari Charm. I drop Sylvan Library and pass. On his turn he taps out for Liliana + GSZ into Knight of the Reliquary. On my turn I draw 3 cards from Library (taking 8 dmg), bounce his Knight with Stingscourger, drop a Blood Moon and pass. He untaps, draws and passes. I go into my turn, take another 8 damage from Library, cast Warchief + MWM + Krenko and he concedes.

    Finals: UR Delver (my R3 opponent)
    * I concede and let him have the BYEs, since I'm not going to Prague anyway*



    THOUGHTS:
    * this was probably the most controlish list I ever built and it was a lot of fun to play (props to team Krenko for raising close to 150 healthy goblin tokens throught the day). The gameplan for EVERY game 1 is quite simple: get Krenko on the table. Multiple times if needed. 0 Piledrivers and 0 Chieftains means that you don't have many other options anyways
    * multiples Krenkos are quite annoying when you are paired against D&T, since Karakas + Revoker can give you hard times.
    * Sylvan Library is a matchwinner. Never lost a game after it resolved (and stuck for at least one drawstep). Needs more testing though.
    * I can highly recommend boarding Blood Moons vs. Elves and Pithing Needle vs. Death & Taxes
    * need golem tokens


    Questions are - as always - welcome.

    Cheers!

    - GL
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  6. #46
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    An interesting list. I was considering doing the same split on Gempalm / Pyro with no Tarfire, as match-us where I want Tarfire I want Pyro.

    What specifically is the Tuktuk, the Explorer there for? Do you use it in Goyf Matches?

    I find it interesting you didn't board any Pithing Needles in against Stoneblade either. Was he Azorius, Jeskai, or Esper?

    Your curve is pretty high, did you feel like you wanted another land?
    If I edit a post without an explanation, I am just correcting typos and / or formatting.
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  7. #47
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Tuktuk the Explorer comes in against Aggro Loam, Shardless BUG and Delver decks with Goyf. So, yes, it's for the Goyf decks.

    The Deathblade decks was UWbg and I didnt see a single basicland. Hence the Moons. I was thinking of Needle, but I felt like his equipments would only ever get relevant if attached to True-Name Nemesis and I think I could play around that with Manadenial + Removal (on SFM), slowing him down and making his plays more predictable.

    Mana wasnt an issue. Gempalm draws help you hitting land drops, so does Library. Also 4 MWM + Ports can "freeze" the game for a turn or 2 which gives you time to find lands as well. On the other hand I wasnt paired against any deck that could successfully attack my manabase (D&T hurt themselves more from using their manadenial. That's why I'm packing Carpet of Flowers: for the Delver decks with Wasteland.
    Last edited by GoboLord; 11-15-2016 at 05:37 AM.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  8. #48
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Carpet of Flowers is brilliant. At worst it eats an Abrupt Decay for something else, and at best you get to actually have mana.

    I agree with not bringing it in against Deathblade. Historically it was a pretty even matchup where we would just bob and weave and pull ahead with Gempalms and Ringleaders with Blood Moon as the free "I win" button if you need it.

    Carpet against shardless though.... yes please.

    Gratz on a good finish GL!
    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    Dat 1/1 with built in pump. Watch out Griselbrand here comes lizard mid range.
    Quote Originally Posted by taconaut View Post
    I was actually kinda thinking the opposite, and wondering what it would be like to play in the "Megadeus and Stevestamops Presents: The Nedleeds Memorial Tournament" (banlist: just the regular legacy one, except survival is legal and all blue cards are not).

  9. #49

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Well Gobolord, I may have to try this build out at my next Legacy event. Looks sharp!

  10. #50

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by GoboLord View Post
    Hello fellow Warchiefs,

    quick tournament report (my first event in 3 months ).

    The list:

    LANDS (23)
    4 Caverns of Souls
    4 Wasteland
    4 Rishadan Port
    1 Pendelhaven
    2 Mountain
    1 Snow-Covered Mountain
    2 Taiga
    5 R-Fetches

    CORE (16)
    4 Aether Vial
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Ringleader

    Rest of the bunch (21)
    4 Goblin Warchief
    4 Mogg War Marshal
    4 Gempalm Incinerator
    3 Krenko, Mob Boss
    2 Pyrokinesis
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Tin Street Hooligan
    1 Skirk Prospector
    1 Sylvan Library

    SIDEBOARD (15)
    3 Blood Moon
    3 Pithing Needle
    3 Carpet of Flowers
    2 Siege-Gang Commander
    2 Tuktuk, the Explorer
    1 Pyrokinesis
    1 Dismember

    Round 1: [otd] Deathblade (2-0)
    -1 Sylvan Library, -2 Pyrokinesis, -1 Stingscourger
    +3 Blood Moon, +1 Dismember

    *not sure if it is correct to board out library here. couldn't really touch the rest though and Dismember seemed better than Library*

    Round 2: [otp] Aluren (2-0)
    -1 Skirk Prospector
    +1 Carpet of Flowers


    Round 3: [otp]UR Delver (1-2)
    -1 Sylvan Library, -1 Tin-Street Hooligan
    +1 Pyrokinesis, +1 Dismember

    *he is flooded in G1, I take mull to 5 and 4 in G2 and G3*

    Round 4: [otd] Wb Death & Taxes (2-0)
    -4 Goblin Lackey, -1 Stingscourger, -1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    +3 Pithing Needle, +1 Dismember, +1 Pyrokinesis, +1 Dismember, +1 Siege-Gang Commander


    Round 5: [otd] Death & Taxes (2-1)
    -4 Goblin Lackey, -1 Stingscourger, -1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    +3 Pithing Needle, +1 Dismember, +1 Pyrokinesis, +1 Dismember, +1 Siege-Gang Commander


    Round 6: [otd] Elves (2-1)
    -2 Krenko, Mob Boss, -1 Stingscourger, -1 Ringleader, -1 Sylvan Library
    +3 Blood Moon, +1 Pyrokinesis, +1 Dimember

    *highlight in G3: On my turn 3 his board is: Llanowar Elves, Birchlore Rangers, Heritage Druid, Wirewood Symbiote, Cavern of Souls, Gaea's Cradle.
    I have two lands in play and my hand is: Krenko, Mob Boss, Mogg War Marshal, Blood Moon, Pyrokinesis, Mountain. I kill his entire board wit Kinesis, drop Blood Moon and he concedes.*

    Top 4: [otp] Aggro Loam (2-0)
    -4 Goblin Lackey, -1 Tin-Street Hooligan, -1 Skirk Prospector, -2 Pyrokinesis
    +3 Blood Moon, +1 Dimember, +2 Siege-Gang Commander, +2 Tuktuk, the Explorer

    *highlight in G2: on turn 6 I put Siege-Gang Commander into play at EOT, attack with everything (had another 4 tokens from 2 MWMs) and my opponent wipes my board with Swords to Plowshares + Golgari Charm. I drop Sylvan Library and pass. On his turn he taps out for Liliana + GSZ into Knight of the Reliquary. On my turn I draw 3 cards from Library (taking 8 dmg), bounce his Knight with Stingscourger, drop a Blood Moon and pass. He untaps, draws and passes. I go into my turn, take another 8 damage from Library, cast Warchief + MWM + Krenko and he concedes.

    Finals: UR Delver (my R3 opponent)
    * I concede and let him have the BYEs, since I'm not going to Prague anyway*



    THOUGHTS:
    * this was probably the most controlish list I ever built and it was a lot of fun to play (props to team Krenko for raising close to 150 healthy goblin tokens throught the day). The gameplan for EVERY game 1 is quite simple: get Krenko on the table. Multiple times if needed. 0 Piledrivers and 0 Chieftains means that you don't have many other options anyways
    * multiples Krenkos are quite annoying when you are paired against D&T, since Karakas + Revoker can give you hard times.
    * Sylvan Library is a matchwinner. Never lost a game after it resolved (and stuck for at least one drawstep). Needs more testing though.
    * I can highly recommend boarding Blood Moons vs. Elves and Pithing Needle vs. Death & Taxes
    * need golem tokens


    Questions are - as always - welcome.

    Cheers!

    - GL
    What a build thats kind of special!

    I love the top 4 vs agro loam, still not convinced on the library personally, altough i think in grindy matchups it can be verry strong.
    I also like the way you board, overall just minimum no overboarding. That is my big problem a lot of times.
    I have never boarded bloodmoon vs elves altough i play 3 of them, for sure going to test that.
    Versus Aluren you didnt board in the bloodmoon not sure if that is correct..I played the mu couple of times online and i think it shines.
    Yes i know that when the Aluren is out they can cast creatures for free. I also like the pyrokinesis vs Aluren because you can kill their combo with it quite easily.

    Also i see that you dont play any graveyard hate at all for, for example: lands, reanimator, dredge, storm, relics to keep goyf small etc. Is that just a metacall. If so you have called right.

    Is bloodmoon good enough to maindeck?

  11. #51
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by dissy View Post
    What a build thats kind of special!

    I love the top 4 vs agro loam, still not convinced on the library personally, altough i think in grindy matchups it can be verry strong.
    I also like the way you board, overall just minimum no overboarding. That is my big problem a lot of times.
    I have never boarded bloodmoon vs elves altough i play 3 of them, for sure going to test that.
    Versus Aluren you didnt board in the bloodmoon not sure if that is correct..I played the mu couple of times online and i think it shines.
    Yes i know that when the Aluren is out they can cast creatures for free. I also like the pyrokinesis vs Aluren because you can kill their combo with it quite easily.

    Also i see that you dont play any graveyard hate at all for, for example: lands, reanimator, dredge, storm, relics to keep goyf small etc. Is that just a metacall. If so you have called right.

    Is bloodmoon good enough to maindeck?
    On SBing: I tend to drift away from this minimalist approach from time to time. Olaf's new paragraph on SBing reminded me how much work and finetuning it actually needs to build a SB that works well.
    @Olaf: I think everyone could profit from your SB-building-skills. I liked the advice that you gave GoblinLackey1 on his SB. Especially this one:
    An example of this actually is as follows. I had 2 Pithing, 1 Tin Street and 3 Pyro's in my board. I was debating if I were to put 2 Wear // Tear's in my board for both equipment and Moat, and they'd go over a non-mentioned SB slot. After doing the math I found that means I have 8 cards I really wanted against D&T, and I did not have 8 cards to take out. On the play I'd board 6 cards, and on the draw I'd board 7. That means I am wasting SB space if that extra 1 or 2 cards didn't get used strongly in other matches. Since they were for Moat specifically, and Miracles is a positive match-up I ended up cutting them for some other card that affected a match-up I didn't have covered.
    On Aluren MU: I didn't know my opponent was on Aluren until the very last turn of the G2. After G1 I just buried him in Krenkos, thinking that he was on Shardless Bug. Wouldn't board Blood Moon against Shardless, but definitely against Aluren.

    On GY hate: this was indeed a meta call. you could justify Relics with the Tarmogoyf MUs alone, but I was looking for a goblin-shaped solution here, which is why I upped the count of MWM, Krenko and Incinerator and put Tuktuk the Explorer in my SB (as MWM #5 and #6).

    On Moon Maindeck: Would defiitely be a metacall. I am very critical on the application of Moons, so I don't think its maindeck-material. I want it vs. Eldrazi, Lands, Aggro Loam, Elves and thats basically it (the 4c Esperblade in R1 was an exception, as it was so deep into 4c).
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  12. #52
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Further on Tuktuk, the Explorer: Was he good? Was he bad? Did he do things you didn't expect him to do? Did ever feel the need to tutor him?
    If I edit a post without an explanation, I am just correcting typos and / or formatting.
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  13. #53
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Olaf Forkbeard View Post
    Further on Tuktuk, the Explorer: Was he good? Was he bad? Did he do things you didn't expect him to do? Did ever feel the need to tutor him?
    On the tournament I boarded it once (T4, Aggro Loam) and it ate a Swords to Plowshares one turn after it came into play, while there still was a Goblin Warchief lying next to it. The reason was probably that my opponent didn't like the idea of fighting a 5/5 body, and at the same time he had more outs for Warchief (Punishing Fire, Decay). Also he probably already had Golgari Charm in his hand at that time, so using StoP this way was probably a necessary evil. The StoP definitely came unexpected, as he knew that I had at least 1 Krenko in my deck. [* I really should have asked him after the game, but both of us were in a hurry to leave]
    So in a way it did what it was supposed to do. Transfer the same situation to the other MU where I want to bring in tuktuk the Explorer (Shardless BUG), getting the 5/5 token at some point would be inevitable.
    I can't evaluate yet whether it was good or bad. It was definitely the most UNexiciting card in my 75 on that day, and those two slots are the most debatable. On the other hand I would need to come up with a worthy alternative, and I actually thought about those two slots for a long time before grabbing Tuktuk.

    Additionally, I remember ScatmanX testing the card on the kitchen-table during our stay in Prague this year. I don't remember many details, but he was positive about the card to say the least (I know for a fact that he tested against Aggro Loam on that weekend - can't remember any other MU though). Maybe you can drop a few lines on tuktuk, Marcelo?
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  14. #54

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by GoboLord View Post
    Hello fellow Warchiefs,

    quick tournament report (my first event in 3 months ).

    The list:

    LANDS (23)
    4 Caverns of Souls
    4 Wasteland
    4 Rishadan Port
    1 Pendelhaven
    2 Mountain
    1 Snow-Covered Mountain
    2 Taiga
    5 R-Fetches

    CORE (16)
    4 Aether Vial
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Ringleader

    Rest of the bunch (21)
    4 Goblin Warchief
    4 Mogg War Marshal
    4 Gempalm Incinerator
    3 Krenko, Mob Boss
    2 Pyrokinesis
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Tin Street Hooligan
    1 Skirk Prospector
    1 Sylvan Library

    SIDEBOARD (15)
    3 Blood Moon
    3 Pithing Needle
    3 Carpet of Flowers
    2 Siege-Gang Commander
    2 Tuktuk, the Explorer
    1 Pyrokinesis
    1 Dismember

    Round 1: [otd] Deathblade (2-0)
    -1 Sylvan Library, -2 Pyrokinesis, -1 Stingscourger
    +3 Blood Moon, +1 Dismember

    *not sure if it is correct to board out library here. couldn't really touch the rest though and Dismember seemed better than Library*

    Round 2: [otp] Aluren (2-0)
    -1 Skirk Prospector
    +1 Carpet of Flowers


    Round 3: [otp]UR Delver (1-2)
    -1 Sylvan Library, -1 Tin-Street Hooligan
    +1 Pyrokinesis, +1 Dismember

    *he is flooded in G1, I take mull to 5 and 4 in G2 and G3*

    Round 4: [otd] Wb Death & Taxes (2-0)
    -4 Goblin Lackey, -1 Stingscourger, -1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    +3 Pithing Needle, +1 Dismember, +1 Pyrokinesis, +1 Dismember, +1 Siege-Gang Commander


    Round 5: [otd] Death & Taxes (2-1)
    -4 Goblin Lackey, -1 Stingscourger, -1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    +3 Pithing Needle, +1 Dismember, +1 Pyrokinesis, +1 Dismember, +1 Siege-Gang Commander


    Round 6: [otd] Elves (2-1)
    -2 Krenko, Mob Boss, -1 Stingscourger, -1 Ringleader, -1 Sylvan Library
    +3 Blood Moon, +1 Pyrokinesis, +1 Dimember

    *highlight in G3: On my turn 3 his board is: Llanowar Elves, Birchlore Rangers, Heritage Druid, Wirewood Symbiote, Cavern of Souls, Gaea's Cradle.
    I have two lands in play and my hand is: Krenko, Mob Boss, Mogg War Marshal, Blood Moon, Pyrokinesis, Mountain. I kill his entire board wit Kinesis, drop Blood Moon and he concedes.*

    Top 4: [otp] Aggro Loam (2-0)
    -4 Goblin Lackey, -1 Tin-Street Hooligan, -1 Skirk Prospector, -2 Pyrokinesis
    +3 Blood Moon, +1 Dimember, +2 Siege-Gang Commander, +2 Tuktuk, the Explorer

    *highlight in G2: on turn 6 I put Siege-Gang Commander into play at EOT, attack with everything (had another 4 tokens from 2 MWMs) and my opponent wipes my board with Swords to Plowshares + Golgari Charm. I drop Sylvan Library and pass. On his turn he taps out for Liliana + GSZ into Knight of the Reliquary. On my turn I draw 3 cards from Library (taking 8 dmg), bounce his Knight with Stingscourger, drop a Blood Moon and pass. He untaps, draws and passes. I go into my turn, take another 8 damage from Library, cast Warchief + MWM + Krenko and he concedes.

    Finals: UR Delver (my R3 opponent)
    * I concede and let him have the BYEs, since I'm not going to Prague anyway*



    THOUGHTS:
    * this was probably the most controlish list I ever built and it was a lot of fun to play (props to team Krenko for raising close to 150 healthy goblin tokens throught the day). The gameplan for EVERY game 1 is quite simple: get Krenko on the table. Multiple times if needed. 0 Piledrivers and 0 Chieftains means that you don't have many other options anyways
    * multiples Krenkos are quite annoying when you are paired against D&T, since Karakas + Revoker can give you hard times.
    * Sylvan Library is a matchwinner. Never lost a game after it resolved (and stuck for at least one drawstep). Needs more testing though.
    * I can highly recommend boarding Blood Moons vs. Elves and Pithing Needle vs. Death & Taxes
    * need golem tokens


    Questions are - as always - welcome.

    Cheers!

    - GL
    My god is that list spicy and I love it! I have a few questions about your 75.

    Did you miss the piledrivers or chieftains at all? Were there occasions during games where you thought "If I had a piledriver in my deck, I could win right now?"
    What was the reasoning behind 2 Siege-Gangs in the board? Were you swapping them for 2 krenkos against Karakas decks, or something along those lines? What matchups did you have in mind for them?
    You've gone much heavier on the green splash than I've seen before. Did you have problems casting your early green cards at points? Did you feel vulnerable to wasteland at points?

    Thanks and great job with the tournament and the innovation!

    EDIT: Something else I just noticed; not a single sharpshooter in the 75! I'm surprised by this especially, as sharpshooter synergizes quite well with Krenko (+prospector, or just attacking and making combat a nightmare for the opponent). Was this a meta call, or do you not think sharpshooter belongs in the deck? I've found him to be pretty invaluable, and one of the only ways to really lock down the board permanently against Elves.

  15. #55
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by 1GoblinLackey View Post
    My god is that list spicy and I love it! I have a few questions about your 75.

    Did you miss the piledrivers or chieftains at all? Were there occasions during games where you thought "If I had a piledriver in my deck, I could win right now?"
    What was the reasoning behind 2 Siege-Gangs in the board? Were you swapping them for 2 krenkos against Karakas decks, or something along those lines? What matchups did you have in mind for them?
    You've gone much heavier on the green splash than I've seen before. Did you have problems casting your early green cards at points? Did you feel vulnerable to wasteland at points?

    Thanks and great job with the tournament and the innovation!

    EDIT: Something else I just noticed; not a single sharpshooter in the 75! I'm surprised by this especially, as sharpshooter synergizes quite well with Krenko (+prospector, or just attacking and making combat a nightmare for the opponent). Was this a meta call, or do you not think sharpshooter belongs in the deck? I've found him to be pretty invaluable, and one of the only ways to really lock down the board permanently against Elves.
    @ Piledriver/Chieftains: The deck just worksentirely different without them, so its really hard to say whether I missed them. With the list I played your gameplan in EVERY game is to set up a boardposition for Krenko: you use your Wastelands and Ports differently (Karakas), you can't attack with your hastelords as much as you need the cost reduction, you will sometimes hold back Warchief for the same turn you want to bring Krenko into play.

    With Piledriver + Chieftain on the other hand I want to drop Pile on T2 and Chieftain on turn 3 (for extra toughness and extra +2 while attacking). I'm putting Chieftain into play to pump Lackey for this one attack into an untapped DRS for example. I am more likely to use my manadenial only when I can't cast spells. The whole mindset is not to setup anything but rather to attack. Which route works best depends on the MU.

    @ SGC in the board: Karakas is annoying for sure, but I only cut 1 Krenko vs. D&T. The main reason for SGC is it's grindy potential. There are some MU (D&T, Shardless BUG, Aggro Loam) that you can't win quick and dirty postboard, but where you need to grind. SGC supports the grinding.

    @ G Splash: the deck operates well without access to G. The only "green" card you really want to cast reliably is TSH, which can be cast off Caverns, in addition to dual lands and Pendelhaven. Even considering SB cards I usually only need green mana for one turn where I cast the relevant card (e.g. I don't care if my Taiga gets wasted after I resolved Carpet of Flowers). The current manabase is definitely solid enough (it would be solid enough even with one Taiga)

    @ Sharpshooter: that's a personal thing I guess, but I don't like Sharpshooters as singletons. They are much more effective in multiples, as your opponent will almost always be able to handle the first one (same issue with Krenko). I just don't have any room for multiple Sharpshooters. It comes down to OlafForkbeard's SB philosophy: if I cut Pyrokinesis and Dismember for example, then the Elves and Grixis MU would be affected positively by this change, but I would lose 2 valuable cards against Eldrazi. If I cut 2 Tuktuk, the Explorer for 2 Sharpshooter, then I have too much to bring in against D&T, Elves, and Grixis (more cards than I can board out) while I'm lacking good cards against Shardless BUG and Aggro Loam. So it's also a matter of balance. I believe OlafForkbeard can put that into words way better than me.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  16. #56
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Congrats for your result and for this very original and innovative list GoboLord.

    Here are some personal impressions reading your list.

    • Cutting Piledriver + Sharpshooter gives place to more MWM and Gempalm Incinerators and 3 super explosive Krenkos for the win. That's sweet.
    • Straightening Lackey with Pendelhaven is solid, but haven't you been red mana short sometimes?
    • Two Pyrokinesis MD plus one in the side should do as much work as Sharpshooter board cleaning does. But isn't it too risky to count on Pyro? At least Sharpshooter can be tutored. Do you consider the tutoring too slow against elves, because that's my impression most of the time.


    What about the choices? Could you explain some of your choices with Sylvan library and carpet of flowers? As an example, I suppose that you still T1 Goblin Lackey or Vial. But what about T2? Considering that Lackey was blocked and died during T2 attacking turn, which lets you without any goblin until T3, do you bring Sylvan library or MWM? Card advantage or board presence?

    What about carpet of flowers? Is it a mid game card or late game card? I don't really see it as a card for the first 3 turns, since you would preferably drop some goblins. You wrote you packed carpet against delver decks with wasteland. How far did it helped you in Round 3?

  17. #57
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Comments in RED

    Quote Originally Posted by Fourbirr View Post
    Congrats for your result and for this very original and innovative list GoboLord.

    Here are some personal impressions reading your list.

    • Cutting Piledriver + Sharpshooter gives place to more MWM and Gempalm Incinerators and 3 super explosive Krenkos for the win. That's sweet.
    • Straightening Lackey with Pendelhaven is solid, but haven't you been red mana short sometimes? No, not as a result of running Pendelhaven instead of a Mountain.
    • Two Pyrokinesis MD plus one in the side should do as much work as Sharpshooter board cleaning does. But isn't it too risky to count on Pyro? At least Sharpshooter can be tutored. Do you consider the tutoring too slow against elves, because that's my impression most of the time. See my answer on Sharpshooter above. Tutoring Sharpshooter vs. Elves will be too slow most of the time. I'd rather increase my chances of drawing it naturally, by playing multiple copies, plus using Gempalm's cycling early.


    What about the choices? Could you explain some of your choices with Sylvan library and carpet of flowers? As an example, I suppose that you still T1 Goblin Lackey or Vial. But what about T2? Considering that Lackey was blocked and died during T2 attacking turn, which lets you without any goblin until T3, do you bring Sylvan library or MWM? Card advantage or board presence? Sylvan Library helps in mid-range and grindy MUs; Carpet comes in vs. Delver decks with Wasteland. Whether to play Library or MWM depends on the situation. I'm more likely to choose MWM over when my opponent has a creature on board that could possibly attack into MWM. I'm more likely to cast Library when I don't have many cards in hand or when I want to find a certain card.

    What about carpet of flowers? Is it a mid game card or late game card? I don't really see it as a card for the first 3 turns, since you would preferably drop some goblins. You wrote you packed carpet against delver decks with wasteland. How far did it helped you in Round 3? I actually do normally cast Carpet on sight. Usually you will cast it for 1 mana in your first mainphase and then add at least 1 mana in your pool on the second mainphase of the same turn. In the MUs where I bring it in, it's very rare for my opponent not to have any Islands on board. Also, given that I swap Carpet for Lackey this is even more of an early play. As you can see from my boarding plans I didn't bring it in in Round 3, since my opponent wasn't playing any Wastelands. This was more of a Delver-Burn list.
    Last edited by GoboLord; 11-17-2016 at 03:35 PM.
    Mountain Caverns, Lackey, Go.

    If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.

  18. #58
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    I see, thank you for your answers.

  19. #59

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Does anyone know who the warchief who placed 4th at this event? I like their list! The 3-2 split on warchiefs-chieftians is interesting. I'm also curious about the singleton pyrokinesis. I have often considered cutting to 1 because it frees up a slot elsewhere in the deck. On the downside, the matchups where you want them tend to be ones where you want them early.
    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetyp...ns-30487#paper
    Also, I've been testing GoboLord's list for about 15 matches or so on cockatrice. It has been performing decently for me! I didn't initially keep track of my record, but it was definitely a positive W/L ratio early on. There's a Delver win that should be here, but I can't recall the version of delver so I didn't put it down. The ones I've recorded/remembered:
    No changes
    1-2 Moggcatcher (hundreds of goblin tokens were made in this match. It was very strange)
    0-2 Shardless, (I have always struggled to win this matchup, I feel like I don't know how to board properly, or evaluate plays correctly).
    2-0 D&T

    Added Chalice, took out carpets and a blood moon

    1-2 Storm (through a miracle of wastelands and port, I actually almost won game 1 on a mull to 5. Would have won if I hadn't topdecked a vial on the last turn).

    Changed to its current form (below)

    2-0 the goblin mirror(!!)
    0-1 4color deathblade due to turn 2 true name, into stoneforge--jitte, then stoneforge SoFI after blowing up jitte. Bad beats indeed. They disconnected after G1.
    2-1 Elves,
    1-0 a blood moon prison deck involving sulfuric vortex...they disconnected as well.
    0-2 twelve post,
    0-2 Turbo depths (though I definitely just punted away at least one of the games, having never played against the deck before) ,
    2-0 Turbo Depths
    0-2 BUG delver,
    2-0 Blood moon prison nonsense,
    2-1 Shardless

    I did quickly make a few adjustments to GoboLord's list in order to account for a wider meta, since you see a lot of nonsense combo on cockatrice.'
    -1 gempalm, +1 tarfire.+1 Mountain, -1 Taiga. I considerably changed the board over time though (the exact 75 changed a bit throughout my testing. I understand this somewhat messes with any statistical analysis you can do. Here's my final version of the board;
    3 Chalice
    3 Pithing Needle
    1 Chieftain (not sure about this, but I felt reallly slow in the combo matchups and I just needed a way to kill quickly in lieu of piledrivers)
    1 Sharpshooter (still feel more comfortable with having one because of its strength against Elves & DnT)
    2 Siege-Gang
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Tin Street Hooligan
    2 Blood Moon
    1 Pyrokinesis

    Feel free to ask any questions about my changes! This testing definitely put chalice high on the list of KO cards in a lot of matchups, and I'd continue to recommend it. Something I think the board could use is 3 Relics. I really missed them against reanimator (which I can't remember the details of, so didn't list), and Goyf decks. Not having a way to nerf the goyf or deathrite made my BUG matchup feel almost unwinnable.

    EDIT: Everyone should also take my advice and record in regards to deck with a grain of salt. I'm still quite inexperienced in the format and haven't really learned the ins and outs of the format. My only real info about legacy comes from Reddit, coverage, and threads like this.
    Last edited by 1GoblinLackey; 11-19-2016 at 11:08 PM.

  20. #60

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Fellow Goblin players,

    I really liked the plan of Gobbolord with al the boms.
    Although i think it's a strong meta call,
    I'am working on a list wich can also succeed without the krenko (dont worry i'am not gonna cut him).

    I'am back to the 4 Goblin chieftains en 4 Mogg War Marshal besides that i cut the Piledrivers (I still like them vs Show and Tell decks but i don't see those that often), like to play krenko, SGC and Aerwig
    Out of the three i think krenko is the best, but with different tutor targets u can solve different problems
    Krenko: Out of nowhere make a lot of tokens, shines with multiple chieftains in my oppinion, but it has a single purpose full in attack
    SGC: Gives you some outs vs decks that use Moat effects and is instantly effective when it hits the board without hastelord (hastelords often attract removal)
    Aerwig: Is just a bom vs combo decks

    I used the sheet of Olaf to keep track of my results i will post them tonight but the results arent to bad. I win 68% (over 50 matches) of my matches.
    Note that this is on xmage and unranked. This means that u dont always play people who are really comfortable with their deck.

    Lands (23)
    4 Wasteland
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Rishadan Port
    3 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Mountain
    1 Bad Lands
    1 Taiga
    2 Wooded Foothils

    Core
    4 Aether Vial
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    4 Goblin Chieftain
    4 Mogg War Marshal
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Skirk Prospector
    1 Tin street Hooligan
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter

    Boms
    1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    1 Siege-Gang Commander
    1 Aerwig Squad

    Removal
    1 Pyrokinesis
    2 Tarfire
    3 gempalm incinerators

    Sideboard:
    3 Chalice of the Void
    2 Pithing Needle
    2 Relic of Progenitus
    2 Surgical Extractions
    1 Stingscourger
    3 Blood moon
    2 Pyrikonesis

    Later on this week i will share my sideboard list with u guys.
    And what i think of the different mu's with this decklist

    Feel free to comment and ask questions on the build

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