Hello, all. I've come here after looking for deck advice on the GoblinsMTG subreddit... I hate just jumping in the middle of a discussion, but I did want to ask one question as I am trying to build into the deck over time, starting mono-red with the core cards and add over time as budget allows. That being said, what would be a cost effective sideboard? The main themes I notice in sideboarding are (1) taxing effects for storm like Thorn of Amethyst, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, and Sphere of Resistance. (2) graveyard hate like Grafdigger's Cage, Surgical Extraction, and Rest In Peace, and (3) artifact hate like Tuktuk Scrapper and Tin-Street Hooligan. Any advice for a starting point on building a sideboard for the Classic version with the more affordable options (like Grafdigger's Cage over Surgical Extraction)? I'd like to play the deck but can't shell out for 3 Chalice of the Voids on top of buying the main 60. If this wouldn't work, though, which would you prioritize at least? I feel like I at least need a taxing effect, GY hate, and maybe a coupleBlood Moon?
I'd love any and all advice getting into the deck, as it's been one of my favorites to watch videos on, etc. for years.
I'd recommend having about 3 cards to side in against each different kind of combo deck, maybe more. I'd start with a side that looks something like this, and then adjust according to your meta.Originally Posted by Anubis647
3 Thorn of the Amethyst
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Faerie Macabre
2 Pithing Needle
3 Blood Moon
1 Tuktuk Scrapper (and one in the main)
1 Stingscourger (and one in the main)
1 Goblin Sharpshooter (and one in the main)
2 Pyrokinesis
You can cut the Blood Moons for Relics if they are too expensive, as they are also good in 3c/4c control/delver matchups. Sudden Demise and Ashen Rider are also good budget cards for the side if you need them.
Hello! We're always welcoming to new Goblins players. I'm in a similar boat as you as far as sideboarding, I only own 1 chalice. If you own a Plateau (and they're currently quite cheap, MPs are around 50ish, so quite a deal for a dual), playing 3 Thalia's in the board over chalice is totally legit. Cage actually has significantly different text than Surgical Extraction, though they're both strongest against BR Reanimator. However, their splash hate is on completely different decks. Cage is fantastic against Elves and Dredge, and decent against various other decks like Nic Fit (bricks flashback therapy, GSZ). Surgical has great utility against Lands/4C loam/dark depths decks in general. Also surgicalling a loam is a big deal.
A reasonable "generic semi-budget" board could look like this:
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben (or Thorn of Amethyst if you're not splashing white)
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Blood Moon'
1 Tuktuk Scrapper (1 main as well)
1 Containment Priest/Ethersword Canonist (depending on meta if it's more storm or S&S/Reanimator): With no white, play another cage/relic, or possibly Warping Wail.
2 Pyroblast
1 Pithing Needle
2 Pyrokinesis
Other Goblin 1-ofs that are reasonable to sideboard: Sharpshooter (though keep 1 maindeck as well), Stingscourger (same deal as Shooter), Sparksmith (also reasonable maindeck depending on meta).
Welcome to the tribe mate!
Went to a semi-competitive Legacy tournament (MKMS Prague trial, only 11 players tho) and had a blast. I managed to advance to Top4 (4 rounds of swiss followed by Top4) but lost to ANT in semi-finals. My sideboard was not the best but that's on me.
Round 1 I won against Elves. Game 3 opponent was flooded and my Sharpshooter sealed the deal, Game 1 I lost to the usual Elf-ball but Game 2 I managed to out-grind with the help of a few Gempalms and Tarfires. Round 2 I lost to Lands; in Game 2 I played Goblin Settler and copied it with Kiki-Jiki once but still lost. Game 2 he runs me over, but I had some mana problems in both games and couldn't really play my hand out. Well, that happens, but I don't see Lands as a good match-up, am I right?
Round 3 was crucial and I managed to dismantle 4c Delver (Grixis + green for DRS), thanks to Ringleaders and Lightning Crafter in Game 1, and Goblin Chirurgeon was really excellent in Game 2, saccing tokens to keep bombs like Siege-Gang and Krenko is pure awesomeness. I also managed to beat a TNN that attacked twice with Jitte, thanks to Warren Weirding off of a Goblin Matron.
Round 4 was funny since we were 1-1 and went into time and ended up with a draw, yet we both managed to make Top4. Anyhow, it was a 4c Stoneblade (Esper + green for DRS?). Krenko + Skirk Prospector is great against Batterskull and Jitte and I managed to win Game 1 on the back of Krenko. Game 2 he had too much too fast, with double TNN and a bunch of DRS and SFMs. Game 3 I had him on 3 life with a few tokens and Tuktuk Scrapper against his empty board and without cards in hand, but couldn't win before turns ended so it was a draw.
In the semi-finals I lost to ANT, he said he had above average draws and was "lucky" finding cards with Brainstorm and other blue cantrips, but I also made a decision that came back to bite me: in Game 2 (I lost Game 1) I had a lone Piledriver on board with Port, Wasteland and a Mountain while my opponent had only basic lands (swamp and island). I had to choose between casting something to fasten my clock (Mogg War Marshal) or keeping up Warping Wail and went with the former. I obviously didn't draw a fourth land so I couldn't play both (MWM and Wail) or use port efficiently, but I also had to put him under pressure. Anyhow, he knew about Warping Wail in my hand since he played Cabal Therapy a few turns before, so he went for it when I was tapped out and he found what he needed with Brainstorm to seal the deal. I know it's not a great match-up and my sideboard should be better, but I want to know what you guys would have done in my position. It was turn 4, would you keep Warping Wail up that he knew about, or would you try to put something on board asap and use Wail later? I ended up giving him a "free" turn and he used it to win, but I felt like I wouldn't be able to win fast enough if I had only 1 Piledriver. Maybe wait for one more turn without casting anything (keepin Warping Wail up) and hoping to draw into a land so I can play both MWM and Wail?
Anyhow, here is my decklist:
Creature (31)
3x Gempalm Incinerator
1x Goblin Chieftain
1x Goblin Chirurgeon
4x Goblin Lackey
4x Goblin Matron
1x Goblin Piledriver
4x Goblin Ringleader
1x Goblin Settler
1x Goblin Sharpshooter
2x Goblin Warchief
1x Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1x Krenko, Mob Boss
1x Lightning Crafter
2x Mogg War Marshal
1x Siege-Gang Commander
1x Skirk Prospector
1x Stingscourger
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
Land (23)
2x Arid Mesa
2x Badlands
2x Bloodstained Mire
3x Cavern of Souls
5x Mountain
3x Rishadan Port
4x Wasteland
2x Wooded Foothills
Instant (2)
2x Tarfire
Artifact (4)
4x Aether Vial
Sideboard (15)
1x Earwig Squad
1x Pyroblast
3x Pyrokinesis
2x Red Elemental Blast
2x Relic of Progenitus
1x Stingscourger
1x Tarfire
1x Tuktuk Scrapper
1x Warping Wail
2x Warren Weirding
I tested Kiki-Jiki, Crafter and Chirurgeon and have to say they all performed well by themselves. I Championed a Matron with Crafter and won with it, and Kiki had a few moments. Chirurgeon was great in that one game when I saw it, but I guess its worthless against some decks. Kiki was probably the most fragile and apart from making a few tokens and destroying a land, it didn't do much else. Krenko was a beast and I didn't miss Warchiefs/Chieftains that much (played with a 2/1 split). Will probably attend MKM Prague legacy main event as I will go there for the Modern event, and I might try the mono-red-winstigator list. Cheers!
Nice report, Treach! Thanks for sharing.
I don't know if anyone noticed a but a goblins deck just posted an undefeated run on MODO....
Clockwork Dean playing GoblinsPosition: 1
Deck Name: GoblinsSideboard
Creatures [30]
1 Goblin Piledriver
1 Goblin Settler
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
2 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Warren Instigator
Instants [4]
4 Tarfire
Artifacts [7]
3 Chrome Mox
4 Aether Vial
Lands [19]
1 Cavern of Souls
18 Mountain
Sideboard
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
4 Blood Moon
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Pyrokinesis
3 Sphere of Resistance
Simple monoR Winstigator build with a toolbox. No Ports... basically an unfuckable manabase. Sphere of Resistance making a showing in the SB. That seems to be getting popular. I'll bet the singleton Cavern is for budget reasons. Really though there are only 2 counterspells in the format the interact with us, Force of Will and Daze. Daze we can play around and Force we beat with CA, so I'm not surprised Cavern wasn't missed. Edit* Another reason for the low Cavern count: more Winstigators = more ways to cheat goblins past counterspells.
Last edited by jrw1985; 07-11-2017 at 12:01 AM.
Sideboard
4 Blood Moon
3 Chalice of the Void
These 2 cards win so many post board games right now.
Yea, I'm surprised Mono Red Stompy doesn't place more commonly right now.
In the realm of deck design I feel a deck should be doing the best it can at whatever it can, instead of just building a worse version of another deck. It's why you never see me running too many Blood Moons or Chalice's in my board / main. There is a deck that is good at that, and I don't want to be a worse version of it.
Goblins is the best deck for beating multiple board wipes while going wide. Young Pyro decks still don't really match our come-back power. More interestingly, and the reason I'm drawn to the deck, the control aspect of the deck is super appealing to me. So wide control strats, we are the only one. If I wanted to punish people for poor mana, or narrow deck design, I'd run the deck that is the literal best at it, MonoRedStompy. I can't deny that the cards aren't winning people games, but it really pulls away from, what I believe, is the deck's best advantage, and that's making cards irrelevant WHILE advancing our own board. Sure, sure, you don't use them, or as many, on the draw, but if you are boarding it in greater than half of your match-ups, perhaps your maindeck, or deck, should be different.
A note on Chalice specifically: It's amazing against combo, but it's other applications leave me angry our own deck design. Bluntly speaking Tarfire is our most efficient answer, and I really do not like shutting it off against decks with Delver, Young Pyro, and Deathrite Shaman. Against combo you can literally board those cards out. I'm for Chalice overall, but have experienced the downside of needing the 1 Tarfire I left in more than once.
[Edit] Forgot a sentence - In relation to the mana denial portion of what I said. Port and Waste let us keep advancing what we are doing thanks to Vial, and how cheap Vial is. Blood Moon can theoretically do this, but it's opportunity cost in it's mana cost, and curve usage, is much higher.
Last edited by Olaf Forkbeard; 07-14-2017 at 03:38 PM.
If I edit a post without an explanation, I am just correcting typos and / or formatting.
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Where are we at with Piledriver? Is anyone else still playing 4 or just me?
That's just you, bruh. Everyone else has cut them for more utility goblins or Chalice. Or Winstigator.
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I go between 1-2 nowadays. There are enough TNNs around that I want some way to swing past (and baleful strixes for that matter), but any more and I think you fall behind the grindy value decks that get to draw extra cards with every card they play. He's also godawful against decks like D&T, which retains a good amount of popularity in my experience. My current build is trying to think in the vein of "either they kill this asap, or it generates immediate value". Hence, I've been cutting down on Piledrivers and Lords (I've dropped to 2 warchiefs/1 chief, which I haven't tried before), running some more utility goblins (including a sparksmith in the side) and a slightly larger top end (Kiki, Siege Gang, and Earwig). I waffle back and forth on running 2-2-1 on piledriver, mwm, and grenzo havoc raiser, or a 1-2-2.
I'm also still on a classic list (4 cavern 4 waste 3 ports), still don't love winstigator for my own personal experience. As Olaf has said, it's a bit mono-directional.
I'd also like to speak to the effectiveness of Cabal Therapy against a lot of the control decks (4c leovold/K Command decks in particular). They rely extremely heavily on snapcaster value chains and don't play wasteland. T1 therapy naming snap, brainstorm (or drs if on the play), really really messes up their day, and if you can flashback with a MWM next turn they are put pretty far behind. Force them to k command our creatures/vials instead of their value creatures, and then they gas out much faster as well. Therapy has done massive work for me lately, I'm up to 3 in my board. To reduce the nonbo with chalice in the combo matchups, I've done a 2-1 split of chalice/thorn. Also nice if you have both against decks like storm, since they can't take both with a therapy of their own.
@Olaf, I also have had bad experiences bringing in chalice against decks like grixis delver because I just lock out a decent number of my own answers. Dropping a chalice then dying to pyromancer + tokens while staring at tarfires is an absolutely awful feeling. I can see the appeal much more in chrome mox versions. Chalice is still great, but I think decks are adjusting to it (they can also just throw spells into it and dump a giant fish or tombstalker).
To prepare for MKM Series Prague (Legacy on 29th of July) I bought myself a budget Goblin deck, something similar to this (the one that 5-0'd). I'm currently 5-7, and my third league is at 2-0 (will continue this Friday). Anyhow, I plan to stream Legacy Goblins (League) this Friday at 17:00 CEST, anyone interested to join me can do so on my twitch channel. I'm still a scrub when it comes to Legacy and Winstigator lists, so all help is appreciated.
I'm without Chalice of the Voids atm and playing only one Cavern of Souls, but will look to buy them and finish the deck in the upcoming days. Cheers!
Man that's 10:00 here, I'll be at work. :(
If I edit a post without an explanation, I am just correcting typos and / or formatting.
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Hi everyone, I went 3-1 yesterday, beating UB Standstill, Grixis Delver, and Grixis Control while losing to Storm. I also got to beat Engineered Plague twice, which was pretty sweet.
Same list as usual, but here it is for reference :
R/b Goblins
4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
1 Skirk Prospector
3 Mogg War Marshal
3 Goblin Warchief
1 Goblin Chieftain
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Earwig Squad
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Lightning Crafter
1 Stingscourger
3 Tarfire
2 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Warren Weirding
1 Pyrokinesis
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
1 Pendelhaven
3 Badlands
4 Snow-covered Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard
2 Chalice of the Void
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Blood Moon
1 Pyrokinesis
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Siege-Gang Commander
Questions and feedback are, as always, appreciated.
R/B Goblins
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Best Sideboard tech for Big Red / Show n' Tell ? Go:
On-Color:
Ensnaring Bridge (solid if you can survive to T3)
Karakas (bad against Sneak Attack, useless against non-legends)
Pithing Needle (useless against Through the Breach)
...
Off-Color:
Containment Priest (Keep them from cheating)
Propaganda effects (Keep them from Attacking)
I'm trying to figure out what I can side in against Big Red decks that also works against Show n Tell. Ensnaring Bridge is the only thing I can think of right now that doesn't require a splash and is actually Good (must be answered, they cannot just play around it). There aren't any red effect that can keep creatures from being cheated in or prevent them from attacking that I can find.
Are there any cards that make creatures Lose Haste? That would effectively shut down both Sneak Attack and Through the Breach.... That would also make our Stingscourgers better.
Thoughts?
You're going to need to look for effects that cause creatures to ETB tapped like Thalia, Heretic Cather. The only difficulty with them is that they are either too slow, or off-color.
Great idea, zeb!
Uphill Battle !!!!
EDI: SHIT! It only works on CAST creatures, not creatures cheated in. That's some crap errata.
Mabey not wat you guys are looking for but since people are dropping port some nummer of caverns karakas etc. Why not go for the easy solution: maze of ith
- i know IT sucks that IT Cant make mana
- but i Think you wont make IT till turn 3
- IT can be An out VS many other decks/creatures
- Marit lage
- twelve poste
- reanimator
- other decks that have big creatures
I wouldnt run IT main deck but it might be nice for the side board
That's a pretty cool idea, unfortunately it doesn't do much against Emrakul.
R/B Goblins
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Legit MTG
Brainstorm Brewery
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I second this. It's a good idea but it doesn't stop Emrakul's Annihilator or Worldspine Worm's tokens or Inferno Titan's trigger.
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Question: has anyone tried a full-on "stompy" version of Goblins with 4 Chrome Mox, 4 Simian Spirit Guide, 4 Chalice of the Void, 4 Warren Instigator, Magus of the Moon and/or Blood Moon, and more bombs? Like a Dragon Stompy deck but more Goblin-oriented and stll playing the great Goblin cards like Matron, Ringleader, etc.
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