There is this from Channel Fireball:Originally Posted by MGB
https://www.channelfireball.com/vide...stompy-legacy/
He says its like a Legacy-version of Skred Red and mumbles something about "Tier 3 or 4"
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M6GIJSSAD0U
Me and my friend streamed a tournament 2 days ago and there was an Goblins in the final, take a look;)
The obvious problem I see is that adding 4x CotV, 4x Magus, and 4x Blood Moon essentially makes your Ringleader a 2/2 haste creature that maaaaybe draws you a card...
Mogg Stompy is just a different deck than Vial Goblins. I owned it in Paper for a while, and it was fun. Unfortunately it was unplayable due to it's abysmal Miracles Match-Up, AND rough D&T Match-Up. I would put money on it being way better now than it was before.. for reasons. I sold out of the City of Traitors when they spiked to 150 though, as I had bought them for 60ea. Something I found that made that deck tick though was a tutor able Murderous Redcap. If you want more information on that deck, the Dragon Stompy thread covers it, and has gone into a small amount of detail in the past.
If I edit a post without an explanation, I am just correcting typos and / or formatting.
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Brainstorm decks are the best, right? Everything not playing BS and Ponder needs to be incredibly redundant in order to be as consistent. NonU decks get labelled as Linear and players generally have a perception of those decks require less decision-making and having an overall lower skill level.
Here's a thought: How about WotC print some cards that let tribal or non-U decks do a little filtering of their own?
Land
When -Land- comes into play name a creature type and choose a color
Whenever a creature of the chosen type enters the battlefield Scrye 1.
T, pay 1 life: Add 1 of the chosen color to your mana pool
Something like this would be huge for creature-based decks, specifically tribal ones. It would allow for filtering T1 and let tribal decks play the selection game that is normally limited to U decks. I like the idea of Scrye as the ability because it doesn't put the cards into your hand so it still requires planning and favors players that can see where the game is going. If you use it incorrectly you can set yourself up to draw the wrong card. It would also be cool to have this ability in multiples, as multiple -Land- would mean multiple Scrye triggers on each creature, but still only Scrying 1 card at a time.
I normally don't like "Wouldn't this be a cool card" type posts, but I thought this was an interesting idea and wanted to share.
I already splash white and I hate the crap out of Containment Priest and have been looking for a replacement. I'll be trying out Imposing Sovereign and Blind Obedience.
Have people in here tried RDW style goblins in a long time? If you goldfish with Chrome mox and Dark Triumph there are T2 wins that are between 17-22 damage.
E.G.
T1 - Land, Mox, Guide, Legionnaire (3 damage)
T2 - Land, Devastating Summons, Bushwhacker, Dark Triumph (19 damage, trample, first strike)
or
T1 - Mox, Land, Goblin Wardriver
T2 - Land, Devastating Summons, Bushwhacker, Dark Triumph (17)
or
T1 - Mox, Land Guide, Bolt (5)
T2 - Land, Bolt, Bushwhacker, Fireblast (12 -> 17)
You get the idea. While these are hands with Mox + Triumph + reasonable mix of cards; I think the deck could be built like Elves to be a "sometimes T2, usually T3" deck, driven with 8 bolts, 2-3 Fireblast, 2-3 Summons, and 2-3 Triumph. With some Lord"s you can also get some reasonable T3s without Triumph. Some T3s can be Devastating Summons swinging for 10 with just Bushwhacker.
I get this is Vial Goblins and so it may not be the best place to discuss it. But with all of those options for a T2 kill (especially in a world of everyone running GProbe) I think there may be a deck in there somewhere. Answering T1 Ponder with "untap, swing for 19" seems just the kind of power level that may be worth considering IMO. Triumph has really good application with Rabblemaster and War Marshal as well. A weird hand of "T1 mox mox land Rabblemaster(1), T2 Guide, Bushwhacker (15)" may be a little shaky; but sitting on 5 threats T2 with your opponent at 4 or less life... may well be doable.
Anyway, if there's any interest in that kind of idea I've been thinking on it for a long time but never pulled the trigger due to the glass-cannon nature of it. That said, unlike Belcher or something, if someone forces you or whatever early game to live, you're still often gonna be left with 3-4 threats to try and finish the job, and probably pretty alright topdecks.
Any big tourneys this weekend for Goblins to show up at?
Looking for some help with using Cabal Therapy better. What matchups is it good to bring it in against? What should the thought process be when using the card in specific match ups? For those of you that run it, when do you feel like it really shines? Thanks in advance.
I'd reserve it for combo matchups and opponents that can't attack your mana base because getting Wastelanded by those decks hurts us so much. The more the opponent relies on 1-2 critical pieces, or the more that buying 1-2 turns will help you, the better Therapy will be.
One exception--if desperate--is vs D&T where I'd consider it to take their equipment, and because Therapy might have taken the slots in my sb that could have been Pithing Needle or other answers to equipment. We'd obviously prefer not to fetch Badlands until forced to do so.
I've moved away from non-creature splash cards because our mana base doesn't support them well enough and we have no filtering.
Last edited by Sockosensei; 07-29-2017 at 01:36 PM.
As far as I know Marcelo is in Prague at the MKM tourney.
MountainCaverns, Lackey, Go.
If you have an apple and I have an apple and we exchanges our apples, we each have one apple. But if you have an idea and I have an idea and we exchange our ideas, we each have two ideas.
I played in an 81 man win-a-mox (Giga bites quarterly #6) today.
5-0-2 in the Swiss, lost in the quarterfinals
1 elves, W
2 eldrazi, W
3 turbo depths, W
4 grixis delver, W
5 UR delver, W
6 BUG Leovold, Draw (unintentional)
7 ?, Draw (intentional)
Quarters BUG depths, L
Fun event, felt great to top 8 again (also top 8'd the last Giga quarterly I played in)
Spicy main board 1-of Magus of the Moon over the 2nd Krenko
Mogg war marshal over the 3rd piledriver
And in the side, 1 Blood moon over the 2nd K-grip
Rest of the list is the same as my Classic winning list from last year
Twitch.tv/tuskvision has my round 3 match. Go to their most recent stream, around the 42 minute mark
Congrats with the result verry Nice. Would be cool if you could Wright a bit of a report and post the decklist now i AM going tot watch the video;)
MAIN
4 lackey
4 matron
4 warchief
4 ringleader
2 piledriver
1 skirk prospector
1 grenzo, dungeon warden
1 mogg war marshal
1 stingscourger
1 gempalm
1 goblin cheiftain
1 magus of the moon
1 goblin sharpshooter
1 krenko
1 tuktuk scrapper
1 earwig squad
1 siege-gang commander
4 vial
2 tarfire
1 warping wail
4 cavern
4 wasteland
4 port
4 arid mesa
2 wooded foothills
3 mountain
1 badlands
1 taiga
-----
SIDEBOARD
3 chalice
3 pyrokinesis
3 relic
1 ancient grudge
1 blood moon
1 goblin sharpshooter
1 krosan grip
1 tin street hooligan
1 warren weirding
====
R1 vs Elves on the play
G1 - Turn 1 lackey, he plays t1 GSZ for dryad arbor, I turn 2 waste dryad and put Siege Gang into play off lackey. After a few turns I Earwig Squad his Craterhoofs away and he's pretty much locked out.
G2 - Turn 1 skirk into turn 2 sharpshooter. He tries to go off on his third turn before sharpshooter was live but he fizzled out. I clean up his board and he's out of gas from there.
W 2-0
R2 vs Eldrazi on the play?
I can't remember this match super well, but it involved Krenko being too much for Eldrazi to handle, Grenzo finding a piledriver, and then one game in the middle where I mulled to 5 and played almost nothing before getting smasher'ed
W 2-1
R3 vs Turbo Depths
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/162885037
at the 00:41:30 mark
W 2-1
R4 vs Grixis Delver
This guy was really nice, he remembered my chalice triggers for me. Also, chalice is really strong against delver. Mogg War Marshal was nice against his pyromancers and gurmag anglers. Blood Moon locked out a lot of his plays as well.
W 2-1?
R5 vs UR Delver
Nerve racking games, as I don't think this is a good matchup for us. He came out strong in game 1 but I was able to cling on at 6 life while he started drawing lands. Game 2 I mull to 4 and play a couple cards before he runs me over. Game 3 Pyrokinesis on double Swiftspear in response to prowess opened up the field for the goblins to take the win.
W 2-1
R6 vs BUG Leovold
Game 1 he tears apart my hand with double thoughtseize and hymn. I topdeck a ringleader to pick up matron, matron, ringleader and from there I grind him out. Game 2 I can't really remember but he's able to overwhelm me in typical BUG grindy fashion while I didn't find much in the way of ringleaders/matrons. Game 3 we started with 3 minutes on the clock. Mulled to 6 and kept a hand with Mogg War Marshal, grenzo, some lands. I start hitting and he's not casting much of anything aside from cantrips and chump blocks. Last turn my only out was to use my 4 mana to grenzo into Warchief + Piledriver. Hit piledriver but no warchief. I put him to 6 and his board was empty, but that was turn 5 so it was a draw (I felt I could have closed it up easily next turn).
D 1-1-1
R7 vs ?
Intentional Draw
Quarterfinals vs BUG Depths
Game 1 - Put him on the back foot for a lot of the game, getting him down to 7 before he deluges for 2. I think I hit him once more before he was able to stabilize at 3 life, and he came back with crop rotate into Depths combo after I drew lands for 4 or 5 turns.
Game 2 - Similar game, chipped away at him for a bunch of life, holding up my wasteland in case of crop rotate into Depths. He clears my board by the time he was around 6 life. I tarfire him to 4 life for good measure, but he's able to wasteland my wasteland and the crop rotate into the combo to kill me.
L 0-2
Overall it was a very fun tournament. The guy I lost to in the top 8 went on to win the whole thing.
I like where my build is at for this meta. I'm considering dropping one of the two blood moon effects for something else but I'm not sure what I want. Mogg War Marshal was great, thinking about maybe playing a 2nd one but not convinced yet.
@tescrin: a deck like that seems very glass cannon'y. The examples you gave use 9,8,or 7 (the last one was just Burn with mox) cards, which is quite unreliable. Devastating Summons getting countered is horrible. Lots of bad topdeck as well.
I tried rdw with 4 moxen, bolts, goblin grenade and other fun stuff, but it just doesn't work...
@goblinpiledriver: nice report. Your deck looks so weird to me with 12 1ofs, but happy to see it worked.
I played MKM Prague yesterday, and after a 6-1 start, I lost my 2 last rounds. Quite frustrating.
Beat Sneak Show 2-0, got a bye, beat Turbo Lands 2-1, Food Chain 2-1, BUG control 2-1, Dark Bant 2-0. Lost to DnT 0-2, Mentor Miracles 1-2 and UB Deathshadow 0-2.
Should write a short report tomorrow.
Sent from my SM-J500M using Tapatalk
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
So the report: As you may know, I'm a huge advocate ofInstigator lists now. Before MKM I tried the list in 2 other events in London. A Weekly going 4-0 beating miracles, grixis delver, pox and Deadguy Ale, then a monthly going 6-2 beating UR Delver, Stax, UR delver again, dragon Stompy and Infect, losing to grixis delver (Probe + Therapy + Flashback getting 2 Vials and 2 Gators =/ ) and Merfolk (chill and Hidroblast).
During this time I tested Lightning Crafter again and Dr. Gob (Goblin Chirurgeon). Abandoned both cards eventually for a bit more removal.
Ended up with this:
9 Mountain
4 Caverns of Souls
3 Wasteland
2 Rishadan Port
1 Pendelheaven
3 Chrome Mox
4 Aether Vial, Goblin Lackey, Goblin Matron, Goblin Ringleader,
3 Warren Instigator, Goblin Chieftain
2 Mogg Warmarchall
4 Tarfire, 3 Gempalm, 1 Pyrokinesis, 1 Sparksmith, 1 Stingscourger
1 Krenko, 1 Siege-Gang, 1 Kikijiki, 1 tuktuk Scrapper
SB:
4 Sphere of Resistence
3 Blood Moon
2 Pithing Needle
1 Pyrokinesis
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Sudden Demise
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Grafdiggers Cage
Playing LOTS of removal g1, to try to ensure Lackey/Gator connect, and they support both the Moon and Sphere plan SB.
Chieftain and Gator were reduced to add MWM to make Gempalms better and the deck a bit more stable. Also, with lots of Grixis, I want more board presence.
Wasteland was cut to 3 to add a 2nd Port because I really value my lands here, and being able to port t2, then mox into ringleader or just cast Blood Moon t3 is a great bridge. Also, Port got a lot better against Miracles without Top.
The tournament goes like this:
R1
2-0 Sneak Show
Opponent didn't do anything g1, and g2 got a Sneak attack to resolve after fow'ing a Sphere, but had no more R sources. I had Port, Waste and Vial@2 with Sting in hand since turn3 aswell.
R2
Bye
R3
2-0 Dark Bant
Really hard MU. He answers Lackey but not Vial G1, and I had t3 Ringleader to his t2 stone, t3 leovold, t4 tnn, t5 F/I, equip, swing. Tuktuk md was good. I kill all his other threats, and kiki+ringleader race TNN. G2 he goes Shaman into Tnn, and I start with Vial into double Waste. I manage to kill shaman, and he is stuck with a Scrubland and a Waste. The turn before TNN gets me, Goblins wins.
2-1 Food Chain
G1 he goes off t4. G2 I get Vial, then Sphere, then Needle on Shaman. He gets to cast food chain for 4, but cannot combo out. G3 I cast t1 sphere that locks us a bit, but I get Vial ticking up. I played quite badly and missed a Pendelheaven activation then miss lethal 2 turns later. But he is not concentrated as well and blocks my Matron with Shaman when I had Pendelheaven out. I do resolve 2 Spheres this game.
0-2 DnT
Mull to 5 g1 with Mox as manasource, and actually don't do all that bad considering my opponent played stone T2, t3 Mirran Crusader, and Revoker my t1 vial. I kill those 3 creatures, but when Ringleader comes to di his thing, he sends it all to the bottom and I die in one swing after that.
G2 I mull again, we both Vial, and I needle jitte and F/I, both fetched with stone. I also have to kill a mom and revoker. I Matron for Ringleader that gets me only a Chieftain. Manage to kill the token with matron and Tarfire, but in 7 draws only get another Chieftain for non land. I'm battered.
2-1 turbo lands
G1 he does his thing. G2 lackey connects for Ringleader and instigator comes down. Then all hell breaks loose. Cool play was Tarfiring one of my 2 lackeys next turn in response to a Maelstrom Pulse.
G3 he drs. I Vial. He decays Vial, to which he immediately regrets after I play land, Mox, Blood Moon. He does find 2 basics, but not being able to combo bakes it much harder for him to win. Sparksmith kills 2 shamans and Bob. Could have killed a 5/6 goyf, but gempalm was better for that...
2-1 BUG Control
He wins g1 after I draw very badly. Being Fatestealed sucks too. G2 I play land, he drs, I Port, he ponders and attacks, I Blood Moon.
G3 I keep a hand with waste, Port and Vial that resolves and sticks. All I remember is vialing 3 Ringleaders and copying it with Kiki about 4 times, having to discard up to 3 cards eot due to hand size, and krenko keep making a bazillion tokens. I eventually draw a mountain and that's it.
1-2 Mentor Miracles (Johannes who ended up winning the whole thing)
G1, not knowing what he's on, I mull 2 lands, 2 gempalm, 2 Ringleader and Krenko. I'd keep that against miracles. End up going to 4 cards, (2 mountain, 2 Lackey, vial on top) and draw Instigator t3. He answers all dudes then plays mentor. Ringleader from vial reveals zero. He Portents me and Fatesteels me and Mentors me.
G2 I agroo him out with lackey and a good curve. Lethal was when he tapped out for a jace being at 10, when I had 2 ringleaders and Gator in play with 2 cards in hand. I manage to matron for a chieftain, drop it out of first strike, to pump the team then Tarfire for the win. He had to Fow Sphere this game.
G3 I kept an awesome hand, and played one of the worst games of my life. Threw it away t2 like a champ. He cantrips his first 2 turns. I play land go then t2 have 2 lands, Mox, Matron, gempalm, Tarfire, 2 Ringleader. I threw the game removing gempalm for Mox (instead of Tarfire or ringleader) and searching for a ringleader (instead of a 2nd gempalm). He plays t3 Mentor and I realise how bad my play was. He fows Tarfire, i play my lands wrong and wasteland him wrongly, and cast creatures out of wrong lands. He punishes me with some cantrips and a Pyroclasm ftw.
This match I was very worried about not finishing the round on time, and Johannes was very understanding and played quite fast as well. Much better than me.
0-2 UB Deathshadow
If anyone has any idea how to beat this, please let me know. Got ravaged not only here, but during testing as well.
Don't know what to think for the future, but this version have not let me down, doing 6-3 here, 16-5 in the course of 3 events this month, and if I count BoM Paris with 2 side events and main event, deck is 31-9. Quite cool. I just need to play tighter. Still get really nervous in big events.
Shout out to Callum, James, Nic, Aston, Tomás, Jonathan, and Tom for making this trip awesome, and for all my Malignity for the support.
Should be going to MKM Barcelona november, so hopefully Goblins can take the trophy home then.
Questions and feedback guys, you know what to do.
Super Bizarros Team. Beating everything with small green dudes and big waves.
This actually looks really similar to one of my first builds of WInstigator a few years back, literally the same mana base, and similarly 3 WInstigators.
Has Sphere's fair nature gotten you into a rough spot yet?
If I edit a post without an explanation, I am just correcting typos and / or formatting.
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I think this is an extremely good observation and should not be missed. In the past couple matches against these decks, Therapy has done some great work doing exactly what is stated above. I felt like naming Snapcaster Mage, in conjunction with Wasteland-ing their stuff, keeps you well ahead and prevents them from finding more lands to play with (e.g. flashback on Brainstorm, Ponder). You've enough removal for Deathrite Shaman and their other stuff to keep them in check. Really, you're just parallel-ing their gameplan and doing it much more effectively. Nice work.
Alright, I'm a huge advocate of Cabal Therapy in the deck; it's the reason I play black (along with earwig squad). I'm also play a 2-1 split with thoughtseize because it makes my therapies better and hit more often. Some tips!
I bring it in against every combo deck. That's just a given. The ideal curve you want against them is t1 therapy (hit plz), t2 mogg war marshal, flashback and definitely get the hit. This is pretty crippling to combo decks if it works out. The only better line is following up your therapy with a chalice or lock piece.
Some good things to name: This is in a t1 environment, and it'll probably change whether you're on the play or draw. I'll try to specify if it matters.
Storm: Brainstorm, LED, Dark Ritual. If on the draw and they just went land, go, think "so they didn't kill me, so what's likely in their hand and what do they need to go?" Most likely more
mana or a tutor. In that case I probably just name LED or Infernal tutor. If it's the epic storm and not ANT, I probably name burning wish most of the time.
Reanimator: Don't make the mistake of naming the big creature :P On the play, name entomb or the way to get the creature in the graveyard. On the draw, assuming they got a creature in the graveyard (looting or entomb), I'd name a reanimation spell, probably exhume, since reanimate at least costs life.
Elves: There's a ton of options here. Top priorities are making sure they don't find a natural order, and elves players will probably be very tempted to keep a hand with Natural Order since they know if it resolves you die. After that, getting rid of Wirewood Symbiote is top priority. Glimpse would probably be the next one down the list.
Sneak and Show/Omnitell/Skill and Show decks of all kinds: Just name show and tell first, it's their fastest kill condition. Brainstorm's also a reasonable name on the play, but naming show and tell basically guarantees you'll get at least another turn.
Aluren/Food Chain: This one is complicated. Since you also have to fight the fair game, you can't just name the win condition all the time. I default to naming DRS on the play, then probably the namesake enchantment on the draw. Dunno if this is right, would like feedback on this.
Turbo Depths: Probably one of the weaker places for therapy, but it's still fine. Naming needle is good if you have a karakas or wasteland in hand. Otherwise I'd go with Crop Rotation, Expedition Map or Into the North.
Burn: Basically a combo deck. My first therapy usually names swiftspear (on the play) or Eidolon (on the draw), followed by PoP, since you're fetching out a badlands for the therapy in the first place.
Outside of Combo decks, therapy also has some good against the non- 4 wasteland fair decks. Right now, the biggest decks that fit that description are 4C Leovold/Czech Pile, and Miracles. There's also the straight Grixis Pyromancer control (sans DRS). Against the snapcaster decks (4c control and Miracles, name snapcaster. 2 reasons; It's really really important for their card advantage generation. 2, putting a spell in their grave is just a card they can snapcast back. Of course, naming brainstorm on the play does have the chance of making their hand utterly garbage, so that's often a strong play against any of these decks. Naming Mentor against miracles is also a strong t2 play, since they are probably setting up to do that ASAP. Naming with therapy in these matchups is the most difficult, but maybe the most rewarding.
Other decks: UW Deathblade doesn't always play all 4 wastelands, so bringing in therapy is often fine. Name the fetched equipment, or TNN. I don't like Therapy against D&T just because you're just asked to get wasted out.
Name the card you don't want them to have; this means that even if you miss, they don't have that card that you don't want to deal with it for now. (ie True Name).
Hope this helps!
Also would appreciate some people's feedback on my names here. Any disagreements? Points to add?
Background: frequent player and tester of Dredge decks.
Reanimator: In MTGO, I often find lists playing four Animate Dead. This is usually true with BR and the budding Depths-Reanimator deck I've seen of late. I would name this one first depending on what you see: it's roughly on par with Exhume, it keeps your guys from being Animate Dead'd in a pinch, and if you're going to flashback Therapy, you'll have a guy in the grave for Exhume anyway.
Storm: Certainly dependent on where you are. Turn 1 on the play, Brainstorm or Ponder is probably best after sideboarding, because it's likely they would keep a slower hand due to our speed and to see what we end up siding in. On the draw, if it's land-go I like Dark and Cabal Ritual; I find that LED and the tutors are often hidden by Brainstorm before the instant sources are. If the instant sources aren't hidden, you're usually going to be too slow anyway. If it's land-LED from fear of your Chalice, the tutors are a better bet, but still just as likely to be hidden.
Miracles: I've found value in naming Brainstorm even after the first turn. On the draw vs a land-Ponder or Portent, it's certainly a decent play most of the time since they'll want to keep it to hide Terminus properly. The same thing can be said about Predict, but that's going a little too far afield.
Eldrazi: Thought-Knot Seer is useful to name. On the draw, keep an eye out for Pithing Needle on your Wastland or All is Dust: we need to swarm to beat them properly.
Jund: Tarmogoyf is hard to beat and so is Liliana, so keep an eye out for them. I'm not sure I want Therapy in this matchup, though.
Various blue-ish control decks: we've talked about it above.
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