[Deck] Vial Goblins

[mistercakes]

i've been off goblins for a little while now b/c my new pet deck (mono red storm) has been stealing all my time. what i have noticed is that scab-clan berserker is the real deal vs storm. any goblins version with chrome mox could play it. not sure if it's better than the other options goblins plays with (thorn, thalia, chalice), but i recommend trying it. it also plays well off of vial. also not sure if it's better than eidolon in this deck, but my suspicion is that it is.

[jrw1985]

i've been off goblins for a little while now b/c my new pet deck (mono red storm) has been stealing all my time. what i have noticed is that scab-clan berserker is the real deal vs storm. any goblins version with chrome mox could play it. not sure if it's better than the other options goblins plays with (thorn, thalia, chalice), but i recommend trying it. it also plays well off of vial. also not sure if it's better than eidolon in this deck, but my suspicion is that it is.

I feel like the correct question is: Is Berserker better than Trinisphere? I doubt it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jrw1985]

Great video of Goblins bashing Czech Pile. Well done, Frenchie (I believe he's on the forum).

[Neo900]

I had to play Goblins at sunday (for the first time) and went 3-2 and made top 8 with the following list:

Lands:
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
11 Montains

Creatures:
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Piledriver
2 Goblin Chieftain
2 Goblin Incinerator
1 Stingscourger
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Krenko, Mobb Boss
1 Mogg, War Marshal
1 Skirk Prospector

Spells:
4 Tarfire
4 Aether Vial

Sideboard:
2 Blood Moon
2 Thorn of the Amethyst
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Grafdiggers Cage
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
2 Pyrokenisis
1 Pithing Needle

---

I have to make some changes my suggestions would be
-1 Piledriver; he is good and becomes huge but is not unstoppable and is not good in the early game
-1 Goblin Chieftain; he gives haste but the +1/+1 are not that relevant and if I need a haste lord I fetch the Warchief with the Matron
+1 Mogg, War Marshal; I have the feeling that he gives me more board pressure. He is perfectly for blocking since he drops another Goblin by dying.
+1 Tuktuk Scrapper; artefact hate is quite important and he is nearly always necessary as a silver bullet

-1 Rishadan Port; I have the feeling that Rishadan Port is not enough as mana denial and it uses your own mana many times to strong.
+1 Ghost Quarter; the replacement for 1 Rishadan Port and should be acting like Wasteland number 5. Great against Delver and hitting a Dual can cut the opponent away from one colour.

---

I'm doing researches and playing this deck because I want a friend to teach mtg and would give her my Goblin deck. The best way to teach somebody magic and a certain deck is to know the deck^^ So I have to be able to play the deck.

[ToadFlinger]

Last night I went 4-0 with jrw's list from about a month back, but with Gemstone Cavern in place of Chrome Mox. I took a break to play bad decks, and now I know how good wasteland is.

4 Aether Vial
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Tarfire
3 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Mogg War Marshal
1 Goblin Warchief
1 Goblin Chieftain
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Lightning Crafter
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Goblin Chirurgeon
1 Goblin Piledriver
4 Wasteland
3 Rishadan Port
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Gemstone Cavern
13 Mountain
Sideboard
3 Chalice of the Void
3 Blood Moon
2 Pithing Needle
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Stingscourger
2 Pyrokinesis

Round 1 - 4c Ninjas (2-0)
This round was on stream. I'll edit it in here later. Edit: here https://www.twitch.tv/videos/168086666
Game 1 - He gets flooded and I assemble Kiki-Crafter.
Game 2 - I try for a turn 2 moon (I didn't swing for fear of removal) and it gets forced. I draw another moon and it resolves.

Round 2 - Affinity (2-1)
Game 1 - Scrapper off of a lackey after stingscourging his blocker, Get 'em.
I don't remember exactly how I sided, but the other scrapper came in and so did the two pyrokinesis.
Game 2 - He plays ancient tombs and ends up at 4 life while I have only a scrapper out. I had matroned for another scrapper a while ago and was still at 3 mana. He only had one blocker up and lethal next turn. I didn't think to tarfire him at his endstep and I draw a warchief. Whoops.
Now that I'm on the play, the chalices come in.
Game 3 - I go chalice on 0 into lackey. He plays an artifact land and I waste it. He goes glimmervoid into vault skirge.
The next turn he plays another glimmervoid and I second main phase kinesis the vault skirge. He scoops.

Round 3 - Oops All Spells (2-0)
Game 1 - He probes me and sees two tarfires. Later, he goes off and I have two mountains up. He forgets to flashback therapy away my tarfires. I respond to Azami by tarfiring Labman, and I do it again.
I side in everything good. He sides into Belcher.
Game 2 - I play pithing needle, naming charbelcher.

Round 4 Junkyard (2-0)
It's deathrite, stoneforge, goyf, thoughtseize, Lily, and whatnot.
Game 1 - I don't remember, but I gob him.
I side in needles and scrapper for jitte.
Game 2 - He goes dual into deathrite. I tarfire deathrite. He goes dual, stoneforge. I waste a dual and tarfire stoneforge. He does nothing, and I get a port and start porting him. He gets another land and plays deathrite. I needle, naming deathrite, and waste another dual. He got two swords in there.

The day before, I playtested against a friend's pod deck a bunch. I did a lot of tarfire a mana dork and waste a dual. Gemstone cavern let's you do this turn one on the draw. Deck's good.

[jrw1985]

@ToadFlinger - Nice combo video! Glad the tourney went well for you. Nice job!

Last weekend when I played I just ran face first into combo decks. Then I didn't mull enough.

[kombatkiwi]

What removal do you play around by not attacking with Prospector in the game 2 vs Ninjas? The opponent has only Underground Sea untapped. If your opponent wants to use Fatal Push / Curfew to kill a Prospector (they are on 18, surely this is not happening) then they would have just done it in their own mainphase to cut you off the lotus-petal-into-3drop option. The argument cannot be that they are playing around a 2-mana creature that you would play precombat because there is nothing in Goblins with haste for 2 mana. If you use the Prospector to play e.g. Chieftain in your own mainphase they can't even use Push (no revolt). So the only option they play around by saving removal until your declare attackers step is you going Sac prospector -> cast hasty 3 drop, at which point they play Curfew on it

So by not attacking with prospector you are assuming all of the following to be true
a) Your opponent has curfew in their hand
b) Your opponent is willing to unsummon Mons Goblin Raiders in your declare attackers to prevent 1 damage on 18 life
c) You would be unhappy if your opponent made this play

Even if you assume your opponent is bad and has Push for Prospector in your declare attackers step (which doesn't make any sense as explained above) your opponent just goes so far behind making plays like this that you are probably okay with it (especially considering it seems like he just Brainstorm-locked himself)

Next situation:
2 Turns after this your opponent has 1 tapped Island, 1 untapped Snapcaster and EE with 1 counter on it. You have 2 Mountain 1 Port and Lackey, and play Chieftain. Why do you not attack here? Your opponent is committed to killing the Lackey with EE which is a disincentive to trade Lackey with Snap, but not blocking and letting you have a Lackey trigger here is huge because your opponent is tapped out and you have Lightning Crafter and Ringleader in your hand. You have no Vial or Lackey in sight so leaving him with an EE on 1 is not something you greatly care about and by letting Snap live he can use EE to kill lackey and Snap to block Chieftain. I would have preferred either attack with both or attack with just Lackey instead of attack with nothing.

The even sillier thing here is that you then do offer to trade the Lackey for the Snap the next turn even though nothing changed at all (I suppose you can make the fringe argument that you want him to tap out for EE before your 2nd main in case he has exactly Spell Pierce for the Blood Moon you just topdecked, but I don't think this justifies the no-attack the turn before).

Anybody else have any thoughts on this? Maybe I'm wrong

[ToadFlinger]

What removal do you play around by not attacking with Prospector in the game 2 vs Ninjas? The opponent has only Underground Sea untapped. If your opponent wants to use Fatal Push / Curfew to kill a Prospector (they are on 18, surely this is not happening) then they would have just done it in their own mainphase to cut you off the lotus-petal-into-3drop option. The argument cannot be that they are playing around a 2-mana creature that you would play precombat because there is nothing in Goblins with haste for 2 mana. If you use the Prospector to play e.g. Chieftain in your own mainphase they can't even use Push (no revolt). So the only option they play around by saving removal until your declare attackers step is you going Sac prospector -> cast hasty 3 drop, at which point they play Curfew on it

So by not attacking with prospector you are assuming all of the following to be true
a) Your opponent has curfew in their hand
b) Your opponent is willing to unsummon Mons Goblin Raiders in your declare attackers to prevent 1 damage on 18 life
c) You would be unhappy if your opponent made this play

Even if you assume your opponent is bad and has Push for Prospector in your declare attackers step (which doesn't make any sense as explained above) your opponent just goes so far behind making plays like this that you are probably okay with it (especially considering it seems like he just Brainstorm-locked himself)

Next situation:
2 Turns after this your opponent has 1 tapped Island, 1 untapped Snapcaster and EE with 1 counter on it. You have 2 Mountain 1 Port and Lackey, and play Chieftain. Why do you not attack here? Your opponent is committed to killing the Lackey with EE which is a disincentive to trade Lackey with Snap, but not blocking and letting you have a Lackey trigger here is huge because your opponent is tapped out and you have Lightning Crafter and Ringleader in your hand. You have no Vial or Lackey in sight so leaving him with an EE on 1 is not something you greatly care about and by letting Snap live he can use EE to kill lackey and Snap to block Chieftain. I would have preferred either attack with both or attack with just Lackey instead of attack with nothing.

The even sillier thing here is that you then do offer to trade the Lackey for the Snap the next turn even though nothing changed at all (I suppose you can make the fringe argument that you want him to tap out for EE before your 2nd main in case he has exactly Spell Pierce for the Blood Moon you just topdecked, but I don't think this justifies the no-attack the turn before).

Anybody else have any thoughts on this? Maybe I'm wrong

You're probably right about the Snapcaster one. However, I think that I'd rather not risk the one point of damage with the prospector. I don't want to risk anything if I could get a turn 2 moon against a 4c deck.

[ProBlue]

Hello fellow Chieftains! With a heavy heart, I hanging up my wizard hat after many many years of enjoying this game. It's been a while in the making and not a decision I made easily. As Goblins was really my first and last love, I wanted to reach out to you all first in offering out my one-of-a-kind altered Goblin Piledrivers commissioned through Poxy14 (Earl Grant De Leon). An image can be seen below and better high-res scans can be provided to those interested. I know this isn't a place to sell things but I wanted this group to have the first crack at them before just putting them up on eBay or something. I've got a price in mind but I'll share that with those truely interested. If you have ever commissioned an alter, you'll likely be in the ballpark. Email me at a1roger1@gmail. Take care ya'll and keep on smashing face!



Oh, I've also got several playsets of non-goblin alters (mostly duals) up for grabs as well.

[Stevestamopz]

Hello fellow Chieftains! With a heavy heart, I hanging up my wizard hat after many many years of enjoying this game. It's been a while in the making and not a decision I made easily. As Goblins was really my first and last love, I wanted to reach out to you all first in offering out my one-of-a-kind altered Goblin Piledrivers commissioned through Poxy14 (Earl Grant De Leon). An image can be seen below and better high-res scans can be provided to those interested. I know this isn't a place to sell things but I wanted this group to have the first crack at them before just putting them up on eBay or something. I've got a price in mind but I'll share that with those truely interested. If you have ever commissioned an alter, you'll likely be in the ballpark. Email me at a1roger1@gmail. Take care ya'll and keep on smashing face!



Oh, I've also got several playsets of non-goblin alters (mostly duals) up for grabs as well.

I messaged you about these ages ago.. dibs! sending you an email now :)

[1GoblinLackey]

Alright fellas, I've gone deeper, maybe even the deepest. A frequent problem cited for Goblins is our reliance on Aether Vial, and that without it, our deck is far too slow and has trouble functioning under any duress at all. However, my testing with DRS in place of Lackey has shown me that this isn't necessarily the case. I'd often want to play my DRS first instead of my vial, which told me that they shouldn't be in the deck together necessarily. T1 DRS lets us T2 Warchief, no need to connect with our 1/1 buddy Lackey. This thought led me to this; what would Goblins look like without Aether Vial, and is it possible that it's a deckbuilding crutch that we don't actually need? I've played a little bit of D&T (just finally finished it in paper recently) and they can do so many vial tricks that we cannot. We main phase our vial activations quite often because so many of our creatures have haste, so it's frequently a mana generator, not much more.

Obviously we still need ways to discount or cheat in our expensive spells. Enter Frogtosser Banneret! I honestly forgot this card exists until I saw it again recently, and so this led me to this point. What if we can just overwhelm our opponents with ways of generating mana, so many that they can't actually kill or counter all of them? This was my deckbuilding principle in this construction. Some tuning should be done of course, which I'll happily continue to do, but here's what I got so far. I've played against D&T (1-2, but I lost because they had a t2 Absolute law into Mirran Crusader, and I punted game 3 multiple ways), Grixis Delver (2-1), and a Show and Tell/Cloudpost hybrid (2-0), where I beat Show and Tell into Ugin (wiping a huge board with Krenko), and then beat Show and Tell into Emrakul and an attack with it. Not the most testing obviously, but the deck feels very fluid in goldfishing, much less reliant on 1 card to survive.

Anyway! Without further ado, here's what I've come up with.

// 60 Maindeck
// 35 Creature
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Goblin Warchief
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
2 Gempalm Incinerator
2 Goblin Piledriver
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Stingscourger
1 Grenzo, Dungeon Warden
1 Sparksmith
3 Frogtosser Banneret
4 Goblin Lackey
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
1 Goblin Chieftain

// 2 Instant
2 Tarfire

// 22 Land
3 Badlands
2 Taiga
2 Mountain
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Wooded Foothills

// 1 Sorcery
1 Warren Weirding


// 15 Sideboard
// 3 Artifact
SB: 3 Thorn of Amethyst

// 1 Creature
SB: 1 Earwig Squad

// 2 Enchantment
SB: 2 Blood Moon

// 7 Instant
SB: 2 Pyrokinesis
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Kolaghan's Command
SB: 1 Pyroblast

// 2 Sorcery
SB: 2 Thoughtseize

Some bonuses: Kicking out Vial makes your Ringleader hits quite high, even with DRS I have 34 hits! Also, keep in mind what you have on the bottom of your deck because of Grenzo. Make sure to put any revealed DRS exactly on bottom so if you draw grenzo you can flip them into play immediately.
Having access to DRS makes our reanimator matchup quite a bit better (obviously), and does all the DRS things (get your tarfires out of your graveyard to shrink goyf), shrinks KotR, exiles Loam, Punishing Fire, Past in Flames targets, etc. We also get to say fuck off to BR Reanimator's Chancellor trigger since you can play cavern on Shaman (name Shaman if you're playing Kiki in the list).
It's super easy to play around daze with this deck, especially with a t1 DRS. T1 DRS lets you play a Banneret over a warchief, getting a discount next turn while still avoiding the daze. We're slightly more susceptible to hard countermagic in this configuration, since there are only 3 Caverns and obviously no Vial.

This list is crazy explosive at times, never getting stuck on red sources and just spitting out a huge number of creatures. Piledriver's really strong here, maybe worth a 3rd slot. Sparksmith once again plays well with the 5 hastelords and multiple ways to get him out very early, and he buffs up the deck's otherwise relatively little removal. I'm not all in on a lackey plan, so 4 tarfire isn't necessary. 2 gempalm, 1 weirding, 1 sparksmith gives me lots of ways to answer large creatures from a variety of angles. Lifegain from DRS can bring sparky back online when on a low life total as well.

Notable Goblin Omissions:
Mogg War Marshal: Just couldn't find the space for him. Maybe as a 1-of, but he never made sense to me as a 1-of in the first place.
Skirk Prospector: I really like him when we have so many discounts in the form of Warchief and Tosser, but without MWM, there's not a ton of ways to "go off" like you normally can.


Manabase concerns:
It feels pretty solid, I'd like to fit a pendelhaven in somehow though, perhaps over the 2nd mountain.

The sideboard I'm unsure of, except for a few cards. Being deep into 3 colors gives us access to a lot of choices. K command is INSANE, especially against D&T. Shatter an equipment plus get back a gempalm or matron is the dream. I like the idea of also having an ancient grudge or pithing needle in the board, but I'm unsure of cuts.
Pyrokinesis could potentially be awkward with so many black cards, but it's only 3 more than normal since there's no colorless spells. Perhaps Sudden Demise is better?
I'm playing Thoughtseize over Therapy because we lack MWM as free saccing fodder. Not sure if it's correct, since it can just be so much more powerful.
3rd Blood Moon is also pretty reasonable, since we can consistently t2 it. I swapped the 3rd for the Pyroblast, as I wanted more anti-combo stuff, and another answer to TNN.

Would love to hear your thoughts on this crazy idea of mine, and would especially love to see other people test it.

[Olaf Forkbeard]

Alright fellas, I've gone deeper, maybe even the deepest. A frequent problem cited for Goblins is our reliance on Aether Vial, and that without it, our deck is far too slow and has trouble functioning under any duress at all. However, my testing with DRS in place of Lackey has shown me that this isn't necessarily the case. I'd often want to play my DRS first instead of my vial, which told me that they shouldn't be in the deck together necessarily. T1 DRS lets us T2 Warchief, no need to connect with our 1/1 buddy Lackey. This thought led me to this; what would Goblins look like without Aether Vial, and is it possible that it's a deckbuilding crutch that we don't actually need? I've played a little bit of D&T (just finally finished it in paper recently) and they can do so many vial tricks that we cannot. We main phase our vial activations quite often because so many of our creatures have haste, so it's frequently a mana generator, not much more.

I think the problem you identified is that Deathrite Shaman's power level is just plain higher than AEther Vials. Vial requires a lot more to go right, a good curve and creatures within it. DRS just needs the game to happen naturally.

We had someone test DRS way back when it came out to some middling, but not poor, results. That said, AEther Vial is an incredible mana generator (at instant speed). I doubt the consistency loss in running DRS (the mana base) is made up in DRS actual power level when it comes to opposing Wastelands and such.

I would hazard a guess that you don't need Basics in this build. It's not like you are dodging Blood Moon, and you simply increase the likelyhood of DRS, Grenzo, etc, not working when it needs to, while still being sent back a turn from any Wasteland. The likely hood of going Basic, Basic, Land, 3 cost is pretty small compared to the potential of being at mono red due to a wasteland, versus how Shardless, or Delver always has their base color plus off colors from their dual set up.

I'm not convinced it's better, but I am fairly sure that we are getting closer to a correct version of a DRS build by cutting the basics.

@anyone
I haven't been able to play recently due to returning to College, hows the meta shaking up right now? I miss me some Legacy.

[kombatkiwi]

(This is all obviously just my opinion, but I will speak in absolute terms because the writing will become clunky if I am constantly hedging everything I say)

The power level of aether vial is much higher than DRS. DRS adds 1 mana per turn. Aether Vial adds 1 mana, then 2 mana, then 3, all the way up to potentially 5 (in Goblins). Attacking and blocking and draining/gaining 2 does not make up for this difference, before you consider that Vial additionally makes the creatures uncounterable and have flash.

The reason why DRS is played in many more decks than Aether Vial is not because DRS is more powerful but because Vial requires your deck to be constructed in a very specific way. A high density of creatures is needed , which is not commonly seen in legacy decks. It is worth noting that in almost all decks that do include a high number of creatures it has been considered correct to play vial:

Maverick
DNT
Slivers
Goblins
Merfolk

The only high-creature count deck not playing vial is Elves, because Elves gets a benefit from actually casting its creatures rather than Vialing them in (Glimpse) and because a lot of the power of Vial is wasted in that deck when almost all of the creatures cost only one mana.

When Olaf Forkbeard states that "Vial requires a lot more to go right, a good curve and creatures within it." he is not wrong, but Goblins is already set up to have exactly these things (a good curve with a ton of creatures) so what is the problem?

"We main phase our vial activations quite often because so many of our creatures have haste, so it's frequently a mana generator, not much more." Death and Taxes doesn't have a 4-mana creature with Ancestral Recall stapled onto it. The potential for Goblins to use Vial as 'just a mana generator' is so much higher than any other deck in the history of competitive MTG (compared to all the other decks mentioned above) that this doesn't feel like a very good argument.

The criticism of Goblins being 'reliant' on Vial is reasonable, because the mana curve of this deck is so much higher than any other competitive deck in legacy that's actually trying to cast its cards (Nic Fit being the one exception I guess). You could say that without a Vial in play the deck doesn't have a way to cast its spells in a relevant timeframe (especially if Lackey connections are denied), therefore Vial is like a 'crutch' that the deck is leaning on too hard. However, if you want to eliminate this problem, then getting rid of Vial for a different mana generator is not the answer, because Vial is already the best mana generator. Vial gives you much more mana than any other card and doesn't die as easily as a creature like DRS. If you want to make Goblins less reliant on Vial you need to build the deck in such a way that it can cast spells easily without the help of acceleration, which means lowering the mana curve, which means cutting Ringleader. At that point you have removed the main strength of the deck, so to me this seems like a pointless exercise. Kicking out vial and replacing it with DRS doesn't make your Ringleader hits quite high, it makes them the same as before. (If I was like you and playing 22 lands, with 4 Vials I would still have 34 Goblins).

You might say 'well I've added DRS plus even more mana generators', but the reason why I don't like Frogtosser (at least in so many copies alongside 4 Warchief) is that when you build your deck in this way the main plan starts to become even more narrowly focused on 'Spam out a bunch of cheap-to-cast free 1/1s and 2/2s'. While that is fine if your opponent are on some kind of mono-baleful-strix plan where all your creatures are trading with the opponent's cards, it sets you off down a road where you start losing to Tarmogoyfs and Anglers.

[egoblinsw]

Hey all,

I'm currently on a BR list, and i'm on the edge about sideboard.

Right now I'm running

3 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Pyrokinesis (1 maindeck)
1 Tuktuk (1 maindeck)
1 Warren Weirding (2 Maindeck)
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 ??

I've been wanting to swap over to a chalices, and wonder what you suggest cutting for them.
I was thinking Thoughtseize, but not sure.

[egoblinsw]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmmR_3pG0Rs

Fun video vs. Mono Red Prison. Showcases the grindy strengths of goblins well, in addition to some of the janky BS we can get up to. Goblins match starts at 1 hour 33 Minutes

[1GoblinLackey]

Hey all,

I'm currently on a BR list, and i'm on the edge about sideboard.

Right now I'm running

3 Thoughtseize
3 Cabal Therapy
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Pyrokinesis (1 maindeck)
1 Tuktuk (1 maindeck)
1 Warren Weirding (2 Maindeck)
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 ??

I've been wanting to swap over to a chalices, and wonder what you suggest cutting for them.
I was thinking Thoughtseize, but not sure.

It's hard to do a sideboard analysis without seeing your full list or what you're looking to be playing against. 3 warren weirdings seems kinda excessive to me in general though, if TNN is a huge concern in your meta, pyroblast might supplement 2 weirdings and have additional utility along the way. You could also try the more consistent ways to 100% nail a TNN, Engineered Plague and Minister of Pain. I prefer minister because you also get to completely wreck D&T and Elves along the way, and clean up pyromancer and friends.

[egoblinsw]

It's hard to do a sideboard analysis without seeing your full list or what you're looking to be playing against. 3 warren weirdings seems kinda excessive to me in general though, if TNN is a huge concern in your meta, pyroblast might supplement 2 weirdings and have additional utility along the way. You could also try the more consistent ways to 100% nail a TNN, Engineered Plague and Minister of Pain. I prefer minister because you also get to completely wreck D&T and Elves along the way, and clean up pyromancer and friends.

I really like the idea of playing minister of pain.

Mostly, I'm trying to figure out what cards actually work best as my "Combo Hate" Slots. I'd like to have a decent sideboard chance against storm, SandT and Reanimator.


Also, I'm planning to head to DC for the SCG open in October, is anyone else here going? I'm trying to figure out some metagame choices. (Sudden Demise vs. Pyrokinesis) (# of Tarfires) Chalice vs Discard

[menph]

Hi there fellas,

I'm back in the business after few months of stop :)

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles...new-moon-rises

What do you think about the new moon rule?
Now marit lage player will have free 20/20 just killing moons effects cards.

Personally I'm a big fan of moon/magus as SB plan B. I think it's our best chance against Tabernacle - Maze lock against Lands.
It could help also in other MU since basics are not that trendy in legacy, but I'm not sure it still worth playing it with the new rule.

Thoughts?

Inviato dal mio SM-A320F utilizzando Tapatalk

[Axce]

Hi everybody,

if anyone can explain this to me it would be great, because probably there's something that I am missing:

I see that the majority of players run Blood moon on SB instead of magus of the moon, and the reason why, if I'm not wrong, is that magus, being a creature, is easier to remove (even if whit aether vial it would be uncounterable).
So, if this is true, why everybody use Thalia instead of Thorn of Amethyst? For the same reason as before I would espect using thorn, not to mention that it would avoid splashing White.

It seems like a discrepancy to me, so there's something i'm not considering in the 'equation'.

Any suggestion is well accepted, thank you very much .

[egoblinsw]

Hi everybody,

if anyone can explain this to me it would be great, because probably there's something that I am missing:

I see that the majority of players run Blood moon on SB instead of magus of the moon, and the reason why, if I'm not wrong, is that magus, being a creature, is easier to remove (even if whit aether vial it would be uncounterable).
So, if this is true, why everybody use Thalia instead of Thorn of Amethyst? For the same reason as before I would espect using thorn, not to mention that it would avoid splashing White.

It seems like a discrepancy to me, so there's something i'm not considering in the 'equation'.

Any suggestion is well accepted, thank you very much .

My reasoning is usually this: Against decks that Thalia/Thorn affects are good against, the clock is very important. Thalia doesn't completely shut them out of the game, it just buys us time. Therefore, a 2/1 is great.
Against decks where Blood Moon is good, it's often just GG. Therefore, any way we can make it more difficult to kill is worth it, because it locks them completely out of the game.