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Thread: [Deck] Vial Goblins

  1. #1141

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Quackers View Post
    I think jund is our absolute worst matchup. I consistently get crushed by it on both lists. Luckily I don't see it all that much, but between discard, goyfs, pfires and liliana it gets real tough.
    It's not probably not a positive MU for sure, but post board it gets manageable at least. I've always splashed white and rest in peace is great against any DRS deck trying to grind. My buddy plays jund and I've played against it (a lot). It can a lot of different ways. Lists with mogg-war marshall are going to be better off.

  2. #1142

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    I played a number of matchups against Punishing Jund, and it's nigh unwinnable without a sideboard stock full of Relics or RIPs. Goyf gets too huge and your hand gets annihilated. DRS makes aggroing them out difficult, wraths punish overextension....It's really bad imo. If you're playing RIP you have a decent shot though.

    As for Liliana, the last hope: It's powerful, but likely too hard to cast. That said, I think we ought to consider planeswalkers more in our sideboards, since if there's one deck that should be good at protecting a walker, it should be goblins. That said, I can't really think of any Goblins-worthy Planeswalkers that we can realistically cast, except maybe Chandra, Torch of Defiance?
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...it?usp=sharing

    Post DRS Goblins MTGO Leagues Only Data

  3. #1143

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    The problem with putting planeswalkers in the SB is that they help in grindy matchups where CA is valuable. This is the same situation where Ringleader is important, but by boarding PWs in you are making your Ringleaders worse, so is it really worth it?

    I would rather focus the SB on fixing the bad matchups, rather than play extra grindy 4 drops for the games you are supposed to win anyway.

    edit: There are grindy matchups where maybe you want to board out underwhelming utility guys like Stingscourger or whatever, so in this slot I think boarding in 1-2 Kolaghans command is fine. This card is extremely good vs Stoneforge decks but also acceptable vs basically any deck if you have other cards in the main that you think are irrelevant.

  4. #1144
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Squee, the Immortal:

    Auto one-of?

    Pros-
    Useful in every single fair matchup and most control matchups
    Pairs naturally with Chrome Mox and Pyrokinesis

    Cons-
    3CMC 2/1

    Please to discuss

  5. #1145
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    Squee, the Immortal:

    Auto one-of?

    Pros-
    Useful in every single fair matchup and most control matchups
    Pairs naturally with Chrome Mox and Pyrokinesis

    Cons-
    3CMC 2/1

    Please to discuss
    The amount of options at the 3cc slot is so full that I think you have to be on a list with Chrome Mox or maindeck Pyrokinesis to consider it. Most lists can barely fit both Warchief and Cheiftan as it is.

  6. #1146

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Squee the immortal.... I was waiting for him to be mentioned here. I'll open up that can of worms.

    Food Chain + Squee, pretty easy to get infinite mana even as a 1 of with squee in the deck. The question becomes what happens once you get the infinite creature mana.

    I believe the food chain win on the spot combos are too clunky here are some I've heard.

    Skirk + Squee + Foodchain + Seige Gang

    Food Chain + Crafter + Kiki-Jiki (Food Chain just ends up being the catalyst to play this mana intensive combo on the same turn and to chain into getting them all into your hand with matrons and ringleaders)

    Squee by himself is pretty great as an incredibly grindy card that blocks for a long time.
    Food Chain by itself lets us, what? chain some things together to play our entire hand but half of them get exiled?
    Combined you can play your entire hand, have the infinite squee AND dump the entire hand while having them all stay on the board.

    I've been goldfishing for a bit just slapping 1 squee and 3 food chains in a winstigator list and I've had food chain not work out twice and then it go insane twice with getting 7-9 goblins on the field in one turn.

    Other times I haven't seen it the deck has just played like normal goblins with a worse ringleader than normal.

    In the past, food chain goblins was so insane because it was not only a combo deck that had to be respected, but also just a normal goblins deck when the combo cards didn't show up.

    I went out and got 3 food chains to get ready to test it out.

    The question is propose is this: How good is infinite creature mana in goblins?

  7. #1147

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Quackers View Post
    Squee the immortal.... I was waiting for him to be mentioned here. I'll open up that can of worms.

    Food Chain + Squee, pretty easy to get infinite mana even as a 1 of with squee in the deck. The question becomes what happens once you get the infinite creature mana.

    I believe the food chain win on the spot combos are too clunky here are some I've heard.

    Skirk + Squee + Foodchain + Seige Gang

    Food Chain + Crafter + Kiki-Jiki (Food Chain just ends up being the catalyst to play this mana intensive combo on the same turn and to chain into getting them all into your hand with matrons and ringleaders)

    Squee by himself is pretty great as an incredibly grindy card that blocks for a long time.
    Food Chain by itself lets us, what? chain some things together to play our entire hand but half of them get exiled?
    Combined you can play your entire hand, have the infinite squee AND dump the entire hand while having them all stay on the board.

    I've been goldfishing for a bit just slapping 1 squee and 3 food chains in a winstigator list and I've had food chain not work out twice and then it go insane twice with getting 7-9 goblins on the field in one turn.

    Other times I haven't seen it the deck has just played like normal goblins with a worse ringleader than normal.

    In the past, food chain goblins was so insane because it was not only a combo deck that had to be respected, but also just a normal goblins deck when the combo cards didn't show up.

    I went out and got 3 food chains to get ready to test it out.

    The question is propose is this: How good is infinite creature mana in goblins?
    Squee + foodchain + spikeshot elder (3 card Infiniti damage)
    Squee + foodchain + goblin offensive
    Squee + foodchain + goblin offensive +goblin bombardement
    Squee + foodchain + fireball/blaze effects
    Squee + foodchain + emrakul (funny VS s&s)

    I think a 3 card combo is not that hard;)

  8. #1148
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by dissy View Post
    Squee + foodchain + spikeshot elder (3 card Infiniti damage)
    Squee + foodchain + goblin offensive
    Squee + foodchain + goblin offensive +goblin bombardement
    Squee + foodchain + fireball/blaze effects
    Squee + foodchain + emrakul (funny VS s&s)

    I think a 3 card combo is not that hard;)
    Food Chain
    Exile a creature you control: Add X mana of any one color to your mana pool, where X is the exiled creature's converted mana cost plus one. Spend this mana only to cast creature spells.

    Just throwing ideas against the wall...
    Grenzo, Dungeon Warden has X in his casting cost.

  9. #1149

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by dissy View Post
    Squee + foodchain + spikeshot elder (3 card Infiniti damage)
    Squee + foodchain + goblin offensive
    Squee + foodchain + goblin offensive +goblin bombardement
    Squee + foodchain + fireball/blaze effects
    Squee + foodchain + emrakul (funny VS s&s)

    I think a 3 card combo is not that hard;)
    Food Chain only gives mana for creature spells, unfortunately. Not their abilities.
    Emrakul isn't a goblin, goblin bombardment isn't a goblin which makes them clunky.
    Same with things like walking ballista, which is what the food chain deck uses as it's kill condition.
    It's important to make the distinction that this is would be a goblins deck with a potential to have a very explosive combo turn with food chain. Not a dedicated food chain combo deck. Because there is already a deck that does that and it would do it way better.

  10. #1150
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by dissy View Post
    Squee + foodchain + spikeshot elder (3 card Infiniti damage)
    Squee + foodchain + goblin offensive
    Squee + foodchain + goblin offensive +goblin bombardement
    Squee + foodchain + fireball/blaze effects
    Squee + foodchain + emrakul (funny VS s&s)

    I think a 3 card combo is not that hard;)
    Food Chain mana can only be used to cast creature spells. So revised ...

    Squee + foodchain + goblin bombardment
    Squee + foodchain + emrakul

    Not quite infinite, but...

    Squee + Food Chain + Skirk Prospector = Infinite mana

    Squee + Food Chain + Goblin Sledder/Mogg Raider/Foundry Street Denizen/Knucklebone Witch/Genzo = Infinitely large creature

    Squee + Food Chain + Skirk + SGC/Sharpshooter = Infinite damage

    Ahhh, here we go!....

    Squee + Food Chain + Skirk Prospector + Skirk Drill Sergeant/Grenzo = Create infinite creature mana, create infinite mana, put every goblin from your deck into play

    And a revision on an existing combo...

    Skirk/Food Chain + Kiki-Jiki + Lightning Crafter = Infinite Damage... Food Chain works the same as Skirk Prospector here giving you a way to get rid of your LC tokens so Kiki-Jiki can reenter play untapped

  11. #1151

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    Food Chain mana can only be used to cast creature spells. So revised ...

    Squee + foodchain + goblin bombardment
    Squee + foodchain + emrakul

    Not quite infinite, but...

    Squee + Food Chain + Skirk Prospector = Infinite mana

    Squee + Food Chain + Goblin Sledder/Mogg Raider/Foundry Street Denizen/Knucklebone Witch/Genzo = Infinitely large creature

    Squee + Food Chain + Skirk + SGC/Sharpshooter = Infinite damage

    Ahhh, here we go!....

    Squee + Food Chain + Skirk Prospector + Skirk Drill Sergeant/Grenzo = Create infinite creature mana, create infinite mana, put every goblin from your deck into play

    And a revision on an existing combo...

    Skirk/Food Chain + Kiki-Jiki + Lightning Crafter = Infinite Damage... Food Chain works the same as Skirk Prospector here giving you a way to get rid of your LC tokens so Kiki-Jiki can reenter play untapped
    Squee + chain + spikeshot elder Infiniti damage
    Is the best in my oppinion

  12. #1152

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Isn't Squee + Foodchain just goes infinite by itself?

    I think thats good enough, you can chain enough gobbos from your matrons/ringleaders to pretty much seal the game if you find a haste lord. No need to play jank like spikeshot or bombardment.

    I like this combo because it uses cards you already want in your deck (except foodchain)

  13. #1153

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    i think that we can start a food chain lsit with:

    4 chrome mox
    4 food chain
    4 squee
    4 matron
    4 imperial recruiter

    and stomp element
    4 ensnaring bridge
    4 chalice of the void

    with kill conditions, i dunno how, but with infinite mana we can do everything

    maybe:
    mogg catcher

  14. #1154
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Just want to make sure you all realize that Squee and chrome mox might not work like you think it does. Once you cast Squee from exile, and chrome mox isn't imprinting anything it wont tap for mana. You can still use the mox early game (pitching Squee) and then cast him later when you don't need the mana from the mox anymore.

    Just wanted to clear that up.

    Also I was playing against Sneak and Show the other day, and he had me dead basically, but I hit him down to 4, put a ringleader into play off lackey, and flipped 2 lands followed by 2 tarfire. He was not happy.

  15. #1155

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Sagratho View Post
    i think that we can start a food chain lsit with:

    4 chrome mox
    4 food chain
    4 squee
    4 matron
    4 imperial recruiter

    and stomp element
    4 ensnaring bridge
    4 chalice of the void

    with kill conditions, i dunno how, but with infinite mana we can do everything

    maybe:
    mogg catcher
    I'm not sure about the stomp elements...that's a different deck entirely. I think the appeal of Squee is that its a throw back to the Gob recruiter days, where you have a grindy deck that can win games on its own, while also having a "oops I win" combo jammed in there. I think a 1 of squee is enough with the amount of draw and tutors the decks have, because the card is only average by itself. The question is what to replace for 4 food chains.

  16. #1156

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Von View Post
    I'm not sure about the stomp elements...that's a different deck entirely. I think the appeal of Squee is that its a throw back to the Gob recruiter days, where you have a grindy deck that can win games on its own, while also having a "oops I win" combo jammed in there. I think a 1 of squee is enough with the amount of draw and tutors the decks have, because the card is only average by itself. The question is what to replace for 4 food chains.
    Not sure if this is right, but food chain hates seeing Tarfires from ringleader, so maybe cut Tarfires. I don't think the deck needs 4 food chain, I'm probably thinking 3.

  17. #1157
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Quackers View Post
    Not sure if this is right, but food chain hates seeing Tarfires from ringleader, so maybe cut Tarfires. I don't think the deck needs 4 food chain, I'm probably thinking 3.
    It's possible Food Chain may not even be main deck material... I think the ideas are being approached correctly but I see the structure of this conversation going as follows:

    1 - Determine how New Squee / Food Chain can best be used
    a - Does it win on the spot?
    b - Does it set up a highly favorable board position?
    2 - Does the outcome of 1 improve or weaken any match ups?
    a - Does Squee / Food Chain package fit in the main deck?
    b - Does Squee / Food Chain package go in the sideboard?


    Another way this combo can generate a win would be a lethal Grapeshot. Card is bad on it's own and not a goblin though, so it doesn't seem like an avenue worth focusing too much effort on.



    Goblins that have abuseable abilities with Squee / Chain:
    Goblin Assassin
    Goblin Battle Jester
    Tattermunge Duo

    meh... Nothing great there. But any future goblins with "whenever you cast a red spell", "whenever a goblin enters the battlefield", or similar, has the potential to be broken.

  18. #1158

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    If only purphuros was a goblin instead of a god. :(

  19. #1159

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    Food Chain mana can only be used to cast creature spells. So revised ...

    Squee + foodchain + goblin bombardment
    Squee + foodchain + emrakul

    Not quite infinite, but...

    Squee + Food Chain + Skirk Prospector = Infinite mana

    Squee + Food Chain + Goblin Sledder/Mogg Raider/Foundry Street Denizen/Knucklebone Witch/Genzo = Infinitely large creature

    Squee + Food Chain + Skirk + SGC/Sharpshooter = Infinite damage

    Ahhh, here we go!....

    Squee + Food Chain + Skirk Prospector + Skirk Drill Sergeant/Grenzo = Create infinite creature mana, create infinite mana, put every goblin from your deck into play

    And a revision on an existing combo...

    Skirk/Food Chain + Kiki-Jiki + Lightning Crafter = Infinite Damage... Food Chain works the same as Skirk Prospector here giving you a way to get rid of your LC tokens so Kiki-Jiki can reenter play untapped

    So Sledder makes every single goblin on the field infinite. That's pretty good....

  20. #1160

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew View Post
    It's possible Food Chain may not even be main deck material... I think the ideas are being approached correctly but I see the structure of this conversation going as follows:

    1 - Determine how New Squee / Food Chain can best be used
    a - Does it win on the spot?
    b - Does it set up a highly favorable board position?
    2 - Does the outcome of 1 improve or weaken any match ups?
    a - Does Squee / Food Chain package fit in the main deck?
    b - Does Squee / Food Chain package go in the sideboard?


    Another way this combo can generate a win would be a lethal Grapeshot. Card is bad on it's own and not a goblin though, so it doesn't seem like an avenue worth focusing too much effort on.



    Goblins that have abuseable abilities with Squee / Chain:
    Goblin Assassin
    Goblin Battle Jester
    Tattermunge Duo

    meh... Nothing great there. But any future goblins with "whenever you cast a red spell", "whenever a goblin enters the battlefield", or similar, has the potential to be broken.
    You forget spikeshot elder;) wich is infinite damage seems solid to me.

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