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Thread: [Deck] Vial Goblins

  1. #1221

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Surely this isn't a serious consideration? If Krenko is making 5 tokens then you're already winning and if you really want a 4 mana Lava Spike then you should just play Lightning Crafter instead.

  2. #1222
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    No Ban List Changes

    Thanks benoasan for providing the link.

    I wish they put more information, so we know what they considered.

    If I edit a post without an explanation, I am just correcting typos and / or formatting.
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  3. #1223

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    Surely this isn't a serious consideration? If Krenko is making 5 tokens then you're already winning and if you really want a 4 mana Lava Spike then you should just play Lightning Crafter instead.
    I played it mainly for fun purposes and trust me: it was!! I'm not big fan of crafter since it's champion ability was very bad for me sometimes. Anyway I'm sure it can shine in Kiki jiki lists.
    The bombers are great if you need to close games quickly. putting 5 tokens means the next turn you will (probably) win, but it cannot be enough sometimes since you can still loose the race in games where opponents attack very fast with flyers or unblockable (delver, tnn, SoFI, flickewisp, grisel etc) or if opponent can combo off next turn, or if we face a moat etc.. it is also an instant speed closing with vial or lackeys trigger on the stack. it can help close the game quickly and avoid being plagued following turn (pyroclasm, eng plague, golgari charm etc)
    Moreover SGC can trigger Bombers for 12 damages. SGC landing is huge for us but doesn't mean we will win all the time. Also MWM into bombers represents 6 dmg to opponent face.. Pretty huge for the little guys!



    @xod
    Your trick suggestions are right. I don't have the list atm, but I remember important things:
    -regular winstigator list
    -no settler, no shooter MD, no crafter, no prospector
    -1 of: bombers, tuk tuk, scourger, Kiki, krenko (i don't like legendary in double copy but krenko could worth 2 slots), goblin king (red is very played in tiers deck and he can help lackeys to trigger)
    -2x SGC
    -no MWM, i want to play one copy but didn't find room
    -everything else pretty regular

    Inviato dal mio SM-A320F utilizzando Tapatalk
    Last edited by menph; 04-18-2018 at 01:38 AM.

  4. #1224

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    ^
    Not sure how Siege Gang deals 12 damage with Bombers? Bombers ability triggers four times but it can only sacrifice itself to the first resolution, causing the other triggers to fizzle. Unless Iím reading something wrong.

  5. #1225

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    My List is not the bombers list. I don't like bombers... it's cool but seems mostly bad. As has been pointed out, most times you kill with bombers you would win anyways (many krenko tokens, SGC enters the battlefield.) Not that I'd be sad to be proven wrong...

  6. #1226

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by crowe_1 View Post
    ^
    Not sure how Siege Gang deals 12 damage with Bombers? Bombers ability triggers four times but it can only sacrifice itself to the first resolution, causing the other triggers to fizzle. Unless Iím reading something wrong.
    Pretty much this, I donít think they really understand the rules...Mogg Bombers is a trash card that can only trigger once and deal three damage.

  7. #1227
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Bichon_Blitz View Post
    Pretty much this, I donít think they really understand the rules...Mogg Bombers is a trash card that can only trigger once and deal three damage.
    You better call all the king's horses and all the kings men to put you back together again homie

    "If multiple creatures enter the battlefield at the same time, the ability triggers once for each of them. You may choose a different target player or planeswalker for each time it triggers."
    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    Dat 1/1 with built in pump. Watch out Griselbrand here comes lizard mid range.
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    It's amazing people still get a kick from pointing out how good fetchlands are with DRS and cantrips etc. It's like it's some secret that they're graciously unveiling for the rest of us.

    'Brainstorm and DRS are very powerful cards...'

    'ACKSHUALLY'

  8. #1228

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Exactly

    Edit

    It's a pet card that can eventually win games out of nowhere in otherwise unwinnable situations. I tryed it for fun and it was. If somebody think it's garbage, just play something else.

  9. #1229

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    ^
    Not sure if this is agreeing or not so hereís further clarification.

    The ability triggers multiple times on multiple creatures simultaneous ETB, yes. But the errated version of the card specifies that Bombers only does the three damage if you sacrifice the Bombers to the triggered ability. You can only sac it to the ability once, and then it will be off the field before the other triggers resolve, causing them to fizzle.

    ďWhen another creature enters the battlefield, sacrifice Mogg Bombers. If you do, it deals three damage to target player.Ē

    Bolded part is why you only get one Lava Spike off Siege Gang, for example, rather than four Lava Spikes.

  10. #1230
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Yeah so SGC is a no go, but Krenko, Pimp Boss will probably get your opponent sum-bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    Dat 1/1 with built in pump. Watch out Griselbrand here comes lizard mid range.
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitefaces View Post
    It's amazing people still get a kick from pointing out how good fetchlands are with DRS and cantrips etc. It's like it's some secret that they're graciously unveiling for the rest of us.

    'Brainstorm and DRS are very powerful cards...'

    'ACKSHUALLY'

  11. #1231

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by crowe_1 View Post
    ^
    Not sure if this is agreeing or not so hereís further clarification.

    The ability triggers multiple times on multiple creatures simultaneous ETB, yes. But the errated version of the card specifies that Bombers only does the three damage if you sacrifice the Bombers to the triggered ability. You can only sac it to the ability once, and then it will be off the field before the other triggers resolve, causing them to fizzle.

    ďWhen another creature enters the battlefield, sacrifice Mogg Bombers. If you do, it deals three damage to target player.Ē

    Bolded part is why you only get one Lava Spike off Siege Gang, for example, rather than four Lava Spikes.
    You're just wrong
    The "If you do" that you quoted in bold isn't even in the oracle text of the card, which is:
    When another creature enters the battlefield, sacrifice Mogg Bombers and it deals 3 damage to target player or planeswalker.
    I don't know why you think this errata exists. The gatherer rules also include the following handy tip:
    1/25/2011 The damage is dealt whether or not you sacrifice the Mogg Bombers. For instance, if Mogg Bombers is destroyed or sacrificed in between the time when the ability triggers and when it resolves, then the targeted player will still be dealt 3 damage.
    You can get 12 damage off a Siege Gang with bombers:
    1. SGC etbs
    2. SGC and Bombers trigger at the same time
    3. Stack the triggers so SGC resolves first
    4. SGC trigger resolves and you get 3 tokens (Bombers hasn't been sacrificed yet because its trigger hasn't resolved)
    5. Bombers triggers 3 more times off the SGC tokens
    6. Let all the bombers triggers resolve and deal 3x4 = 12 damage

    I still think the card sucks

  12. #1232

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    You're just wrong
    The "If you do" that you quoted in bold isn't even in the oracle text of the card, which is:

    I don't know why you think this errata exists. The gatherer rules also include the following handy tip:


    You can get 12 damage off a Siege Gang with bombers:
    1. SGC etbs
    2. SGC and Bombers trigger at the same time
    3. Stack the triggers so SGC resolves first
    4. SGC trigger resolves and you get 3 tokens (Bombers hasn't been sacrificed yet because its trigger hasn't resolved)
    5. Bombers triggers 3 more times off the SGC tokens
    6. Let all the bombers triggers resolve and deal 3x4 = 12 damage

    I still think the card sucks
    That is my mistake apparently. The app I use for Gatherer text had it listed the way I quoted it, but the website is obviously the correct wording. Sorry for the mixup.

  13. #1233
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    this sounds so bad, but sounds so good.
    -rob

  14. #1234

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    You can get 12 damage off a Siege Gang with bombers:
    1. SGC etbs
    2. SGC and Bombers trigger at the same time
    3. Stack the triggers so SGC resolves first
    4. SGC trigger resolves and you get 3 tokens (Bombers hasn't been sacrificed yet because its trigger hasn't resolved)
    5. Bombers triggers 3 more times off the SGC tokens
    6. Let all the bombers triggers resolve and deal 3x4 = 12 damage
    Technically, you can get 15 damage off a siege gang with bombers, if you vial it the SGC in, in response to the trigger of bomber

    I like it, but I know it's very situational, and probably not worth building the deck around, but as a one off in the deck, maybe, just maybe ...

  15. #1235

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    A serious question for a change, I'm currently playing with the following list:

    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    4 Warren Instigator
    4 Goblin Chieftain
    2 Gempalm Incinerator
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Sparksmith
    1 Goblin Settler
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    1 Siege-gang Commander
    1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

    4 Tarfire
    1 Pyrokinesis

    2 Chrome Mox
    4 Aether Vial

    4 Wasteland
    3 Rishadan Port
    1 Pendelhaven
    3 Cavern of Souls
    9 Mountains

    4 Thorn of Ametyst
    2 Blood Moon
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Pyrokinesis
    1 Sudden Demise
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper

    In the side, the 2 Pyroblasts are probably going to be replaced by an extra stingscourger and maybe a Pithing Needle (helps against Lands/Depths combo and to put on Sneak Attack) because now the pyroblasts are only usefull or brought in against blue combo decks, which COULD help, and maybe against TNN players (but again, you need to have it in your hand) so I prefer racing it.

    So the question, would you guys run a Goblin King in this list? I find it hard to get a space for him, but maybe to replace the 4rd Chieftain.

    PROS:
    - Might give all your creatures unblockable (for certain with a bloodmoon out)
    - The unblockable will get you more lackey/WInstigator triggers
    - will help you get past anglers, TNN's, tokens, ...
    - Same cost as chieftain, also is a lord (gives +1/+1)
    - Can be lord #5 if you keep the 4 Chieftains

    CONS:
    - It doesn't give haste, which can be a big deal (with a chieftain already out, there are no worries)
    - The mountain walk is useless against decks without mountains, or you need to get a bloodmoon down, and even then, with basics...

    I think the haste part can be pretty important (it has won me many games on the turn itself), and I do agree that the mountain walk against Grixis decks, is really good to go the aggro route and go for the kill.

    With the King, you can even play some funky sideboard cards, like Goblin Vandal, against artifact decks or jitte. (probably will replace one of the pyroblasts with a shatterstorm against Steel and Dragon Stompy)

  16. #1236

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Xod View Post
    A serious question for a change, I'm currently playing with the following list:

    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Goblin Matron
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    4 Warren Instigator
    4 Goblin Chieftain
    2 Gempalm Incinerator
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Sparksmith
    1 Goblin Settler
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    1 Siege-gang Commander
    1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

    4 Tarfire
    1 Pyrokinesis

    2 Chrome Mox
    4 Aether Vial

    4 Wasteland
    3 Rishadan Port
    1 Pendelhaven
    3 Cavern of Souls
    9 Mountains

    4 Thorn of Ametyst
    2 Blood Moon
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Pyroblast
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Pyrokinesis
    1 Sudden Demise
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper

    In the side, the 2 Pyroblasts are probably going to be replaced by an extra stingscourger and maybe a Pithing Needle (helps against Lands/Depths combo and to put on Sneak Attack) because now the pyroblasts are only usefull or brought in against blue combo decks, which COULD help, and maybe against TNN players (but again, you need to have it in your hand) so I prefer racing it.

    So the question, would you guys run a Goblin King in this list? I find it hard to get a space for him, but maybe to replace the 4rd Chieftain.

    PROS:
    - Might give all your creatures unblockable (for certain with a bloodmoon out)
    - The unblockable will get you more lackey/WInstigator triggers
    - will help you get past anglers, TNN's, tokens, ...
    - Same cost as chieftain, also is a lord (gives +1/+1)
    - Can be lord #5 if you keep the 4 Chieftains

    CONS:
    - It doesn't give haste, which can be a big deal (with a chieftain already out, there are no worries)
    - The mountain walk is useless against decks without mountains, or you need to get a bloodmoon down, and even then, with basics...

    I think the haste part can be pretty important (it has won me many games on the turn itself), and I do agree that the mountain walk against Grixis decks, is really good to go the aggro route and go for the kill.

    With the King, you can even play some funky sideboard cards, like Goblin Vandal, against artifact decks or jitte. (probably will replace one of the pyroblasts with a shatterstorm against Steel and Dragon Stompy)
    I donít recommend king. Heís slow/clunky and doesnít really play to our strengths. I would much rather see a pile driver in your list than king, he adds tons of damage to a race, and canít be blocked by TNN.
    With two tuktuks I donít think you need shatterstorm. If you donít like blast (I do) go for needle, itís been good for me. Or a grafdiggers cage

  17. #1237

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Testing this atm

    1 Chirurgeon
    4 Lackey
    1 MWM
    1 Sparksmith
    1 Stingscourger
    4 Matron
    3 Rabblemaster
    1 Chieftain
    1 Squee the Immortal
    1 Sharpshooter
    1 Gempalm
    4 Ringleader
    1 Lightning Crafter
    1 Tuktuk Scrapper
    1 Earwig Squad
    1 Kiki Jiki

    4 Tarfire
    2 Warren Weirding

    4 Aether Vial

    3 Mountain
    3 Badlands
    4 Cavern
    4 Waste
    4 Port
    5 Fetchlands

    Thought about trying King in the flex (Squee) slot but I agree with egw that it's probably a bit too niche
    Edit: sorted it by cmc because I realised that probably makes it the easiest to read
    Last edited by kombatkiwi; 04-22-2018 at 03:31 AM.

  18. #1238

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Stevestamopz View Post
    I guess I'm wrong then. Still not sure he's worth a slot as you have to line all these cards up, and my goblin roster is pretty tight as is.

    Has anyone tested chainwhirler yet? I'm pretty sure sharpshooter is "better" in most situations (pyromancer and tokens, death n taxes) so I'm not sure if he's worth it or not.

  19. #1239

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Bichon_Blitz View Post
    I guess I'm wrong then. Still not sure he's worth a slot as you have to line all these cards up, and my goblin roster is pretty tight as is.

    Has anyone tested chainwhirler yet? I'm pretty sure sharpshooter is "better" in most situations (pyromancer and tokens, death n taxes) so I'm not sure if he's worth it or not.
    I think it's a good card, but RRR is too difficult to cast reliably and I don't think it's worth adjusting the manabase

  20. #1240
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Bichon_Blitz View Post
    I guess I'm wrong then. Still not sure he's worth a slot as you have to line all these cards up, and my goblin roster is pretty tight as is.

    Has anyone tested chainwhirler yet? I'm pretty sure sharpshooter is "better" in most situations (pyromancer and tokens, death n taxes) so I'm not sure if he's worth it or not.
    You should be able to buy time with Tarfire, Pyorkinesis, Gempalm if you have to play a slow Sharphshooter. Otherwise, Sharpshooter comes down with haste and does what he does.
    "We are goblinkind, heirs to the mountain empires of chieftains past. Rest is death to us, and arson is our call to war."

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