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Thread: [Deck] Vial Goblins

  1. #1261

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Just ran 2 chainwhirlers last night main board and I loved it. Went 3-1 for the night losing to Mono U Omni, beating The Gate, R Stompy, and ANT.

    Winstigator build

    Manabase:
    3 Cavern
    3 Port
    4 Wasteland
    1 Pendelhaven
    9 Mountain
    2 Chrome Mox

    I was able to use him to clear some rabblemaster tokens after I was done using them to power my gempalms against stompy.
    Attacked into some x/2s with my 1/1s that were snap blocked and then chainwhirler came down to finish them off and leave me with a heavy beater.
    Finished off a Jace while also hitting his owner for 1. :D
    I never had a huge issue casting him. The one time I didn't have RRR on Turn 3, I didn't want to cast him that turn anyways.
    I'm excited to keep using him and I can't wait to see how strong he is against DnT.

  2. #1262

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Sandro95 View Post
    That sounds awesome, but why did you Tarfire before damage?
    Honestly I just did it. Dude had no cards in hand. It really didn't matter when I did it

  3. #1263

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    After hearing the Chainwhirler love, I think I will swap him in for my MD sharpshooter, and move SS to the sideboard, replacing Engineered Plague. Or maybe put whirler in the SB slot, which do you all like better?

  4. #1264
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Redrum View Post
    Honestly I just did it. Dude had no cards in hand. It really didn't matter when I did it
    Okay, that makes sense then. Just checking :)

  5. #1265
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by egoblinsw View Post
    After hearing the Chainwhirler love, I think I will swap him in for my MD sharpshooter, and move SS to the sideboard, replacing Engineered Plague. Or maybe put whirler in the SB slot, which do you all like better?
    We won't know until we've tested it, but my first crack at a list with maindeck whirlers has two copies maindeck and the sharpshooter in the sideboard.

  6. #1266
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    pretty excited to slam down chainwhirler when you have a chieftain out. they can't even block it with angler profitably.

    it's like a lava axe!
    -rob

  7. #1267
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Goblin Instigator - M19 Common Spoiler

    1R

    When Goblin Instigator enters the battlefield create a 1/1 Red Goblin creature token.

    1/1

    It's pretty much a MWM Lite. Very similar with minor differences. If you're not paying the echo cost, this is better. If you're paying the echo costs, MWM is better. If you want 8 MWM's you now can.

    Its a lowly common but still worth talking about.

  8. #1268

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    I don't think this compares to MWM. MWM provides more fuel for Prospector and three chump blocks. The needing to pay echo is mostly irrelevant in most cases as the end result by not paying echo is pretty much the same.

  9. #1269

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by mistercakes View Post
    pretty excited to slam down chainwhirler when you have a chieftain out. they can't even block it with angler profitably.

    it's like a lava axe!
    I just did my first test match with 2 chainwhirlers and 2 Squees. It was a mirror match and more for fun than competative. However, at some point I slammed down a krenko and activated it, planning to win next turn. THen my opponant slammed down his krenko with a much bigger goard state. Crap. I drew Chainwhirler...lol gg

    We have talked about it being good vs elves...but what about grixis delver and DnT. I guess any empty the warrens deck applies here too. Plan chain whirler...enjoy open board

  10. #1270
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Pyronick already mentioned it, but here's the common goblin from m19:



    Certainly not Earth shattering, but it's not nothing!

  11. #1271

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    So basically Dragon fodder but as a creature instead of a sorcery

  12. #1272
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    A friend of mine played Food Chain Goblins in a recent Legacy event. You can find his report here.

  13. #1273

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Video of two of my T8 matches from the 28th here at 2x with commentary.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hECAro9E8UM (this is just games 2 and 3)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CRZOFBFofE

    Both of my opponents could have won the matches, but make the same crucial mistake. Should be obvious to everyone here. I think that this highlights the real, measurable benefit of playing a fringe deck; that opponents who haven't played the matchup much are prone to underestimating out threats, or just don't know our outs.

    The commentator rips Damping Sphere pretty hard, and some of his points (vs. Thorn) are valid, mainly that opponents can continue to develop their cantrips and hand untaxed. I still thought sphere was fun and worth it at times, but I'm wondering of Thalia is a better choice.

  14. #1274

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by egoblinsw View Post
    Video of two of my T8 matches from the 28th here at 2x with commentary.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hECAro9E8UM (this is just games 2 and 3)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3CRZOFBFofE

    Both of my opponents could have won the matches, but make the same crucial mistake. Should be obvious to everyone here. I think that this highlights the real, measurable benefit of playing a fringe deck; that opponents who haven't played the matchup much are prone to underestimating out threats, or just don't know our outs.

    The commentator rips Damping Sphere pretty hard, and some of his points (vs. Thorn) are valid, mainly that opponents can continue to develop their cantrips and hand untaxed. I still thought sphere was fun and worth it at times, but I'm wondering of Thalia is a better choice.
    Match 1 (G1 offscreen)
    - G2 Your opponent literally misses their own Chancellor trigger and lets your turn 1 cage resolve but you lose anyway
    - I'm not sure what you think the opponent was supposed to do to win g3 here, you can argue that he's not supposed to attack with Sire after you play Warren Instigator but if nobody attacks it's debatable who topdecks out of this situation better (especially because the opp has 0 Reanimate targets in the grave)

    Match 2
    - You lose G1
    - G2 Opponent keeps a terrible hand and dies without doing anything
    - G3 ok yeah this is definitely a big punt from the opp, the difference is that with Iona on the board instead of Sire, if he doesn't give you an Instigator trigger then you can't ever play anything so he's safe to just sit and wait to reanimate something else. He also has way more outs than in the Sire example because if he draws a Reanimation spell before an Entomb/Loot he can just hold onto it and not discard it EOT. The only way his play makes sense is if he's trying to play around topdecked Karakas or Vial,which is almost certainly wrong.

    - The caster is 100% right about thorn vs sphere (especially in this matchup), it's so hard for Storm to go off through a Thorn/Thalia without removing it that it might as well be Damping Sphere and then there are so many other matchups (like this one) where Sphere just doesn't really do anything. If you want to play Damping Sphere you have to make an argument for the 'hating-big-mana-lands' part I think.

    I tested 1 Chainwhirler and the first game I played was against Enchantress, which was funny because Chainwhirler is one of the only ways for Goblins to kill Argothians, but I kept the Argothians under control with Weirdings instead and never played the Chainwhirler. It seems like an OK/good card but no data so far.
    It still seems to me that having RRR on turn 3 (with 3 mountain 3 dual 5 fetch 4 cavern 4 wasteland 4 port) is very rare, even sometimes on turn 4-5 it's not castable, but it might be good enough anyway
    Last edited by kombatkiwi; 05-11-2018 at 03:22 AM.

  15. #1275

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Went 3-1 and Top 4ed our weekly Monday Legacy night with the Winstigator list that was at the GP. Only change was Chainwhirler as a 1 tutor target instead of Goblin Settler (since I don't have one).

    I'll just say that card did work against Elves and DNT. And a first strike 3/3 is very resilient overall in our local meta. Want to play more with it!

    Beat Elves 2-0, Beat Titan Eldrazi 2-1, Lost to Sultai Shadow (0-2), Beat RW DNT 2-0.

  16. #1276

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    Match 1 (G1 offscreen)
    - G2 Your opponent literally misses their own Chancellor trigger and lets your turn 1 cage resolve but you lose anyway
    - I'm not sure what you think the opponent was supposed to do to win g3 here, you can argue that he's not supposed to attack with Sire after you play Warren Instigator but if nobody attacks it's debatable who topdecks out of this situation better (especially because the opp has 0 Reanimate targets in the grave)

    - The caster is 100% right about thorn vs sphere (especially in this matchup), it's so hard for Storm to go off through a Thorn/Thalia without removing it that it might as well be Damping Sphere and then there are so many other matchups (like this one) where Sphere just doesn't really do anything. If you want to play Damping Sphere you have to make an argument for the 'hating-big-mana-lands' part I think.

    I tested 1 Chainwhirler and the first game I played was against Enchantress, which was funny because Chainwhirler is one of the only ways for Goblins to kill Argothians, but I kept the Argothians under control with Weirdings instead and never played the Chainwhirler. It seems like an OK/good card but no data so far.
    It still seems to me that having RRR on turn 3 (with 3 mountain 3 dual 5 fetch 4 cavern 4 wasteland 4 port) is very rare, even sometimes on turn 4-5 it's not castable, but it might be good enough anyway
    G2, It's hard to see but I cast a chrome mox into the Chancellor. My GY is right at the edge of the camera, so it's easy to miss.

    The decks that I want to play sphere instead of thorn against are: Aluren, Food Chain, Elves, Eldrazi, as well as random big mana decks. I have seen more food chain than storm at recent events, and it's a big upgrade there. I do agree that thalia/thorn is sometimes better, but I'm not convinced it's better OVERALL yet. I think it's somewhere that we need more data. (Like Chainwhirler)

  17. #1277
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    So after a really long break from Goblins, and Legacy in general, I have picked up this beloved deck again :-) I saw there is a Discord-channel? The link doesn’t seem to work though... Can someone provide me the proper link?
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  18. #1278
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatto View Post
    So after a really long break from Goblins, and Legacy in general, I have picked up this beloved deck again :-) I saw there is a Discord-channel? The link doesn’t seem to work though... Can someone provide me the proper link?
    Let me get you in. Here is a temp invite.

    https://discord.gg/2jd7WBf

    Sorry about the wait. Was busy over the weekend. Welcome back.

    Edit: This link is the permanent invite.
    Last edited by Olaf Forkbeard; 06-05-2018 at 11:02 AM.

    If I edit a post without an explanation, I am just correcting typos and / or formatting.
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  19. #1279

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    New Spoilers

    Volley Veteran 3R
    Creature - Goblin Warrior
    When ~ enters the battlefield, it deals damage to target creature an opponent controls equal to the number of Goblins you control
    4/2

    Dark-Dweller Oracle 1R
    Creature - Goblin Shaman
    {1}, Sacrifice a creature: Exile the top card of your library. You may play that card this turn (so if it's your turn, and you haven't played a land yet, you can play a land that you exile)
    2/2

    I don't think the first one is too interesting because it seems worse than Gempalm Incinerator in the vast majority of situations

    The second one, however, seems like it could have a lot of potential
    It's good with both of the Echo goblins, sacrificing useless matrons etc
    It's kind of good with Rabblemaster (but it is exactly the kind of thing that you don't want to be forced to attack with)

  20. #1280
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    New Spoilers

    Volley Veteran 3R
    Creature - Goblin Warrior
    When ~ enters the battlefield, it deals damage to target creature an opponent controls equal to the number of Goblins you control
    4/2

    Dark-Dweller Oracle 1R
    Creature - Goblin Shaman
    {1}, Sacrifice a creature: Exile the top card of your library. You may play that card this turn (so if it's your turn, and you haven't played a land yet, you can play a land that you exile)
    2/2

    I don't think the first one is too interesting because it seems worse than Gempalm Incinerator in the vast majority of situations

    The second one, however, seems like it could have a lot of potential
    It's good with both of the Echo goblins, sacrificing useless matrons etc
    It's kind of good with Rabblemaster (but it is exactly the kind of thing that you don't want to be forced to attack with)
    I'm going out on a limb and say that Volley Veteran is an upgrade to Incinerator because it does the same thing but is attached to a huge body at 4/2 (and counts itself.) It will always be Incinerator + 1 *and* a 4/2 or better to attack with, many times with haste from Warchief. In a deck where 4-drops are common (Ringleader) I don't think this is unreasonable at all, and likely better than Incinerator. Vial@4 isn't uncommon in goblins.

    I may be completely wrong, it's happened plenty of times, but seems good to me.
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