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Thread: [Deck] Vial Goblins

  1. #1641
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by feline View Post
    I am seriously considering playing legacy again & this is the deck I'm looking at. Goblin Crater Maker looks awesome and DRShaman is banned!
    I'm having trouble figuring out how to fit a third in my deck. The card is great. It seems like the exact kind of 3 of we'd want. Too many is irrelevant, but the first is perfect.

    I feel pretty good about all the things I'm supposed to feel good about with the exception of Grixis Control. If we can figure that out, we will move past Tier 2.

    It's a blast, like I said I just got 9th, goblinpiledriver (the user on reddit, and possibly many, many other places) got first over the weekend as well in some event. It's starting to put up real results again.

    Also, glad to see you are taking interest. You're one of my favorite's of the more well known players.

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  2. #1642
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by feline View Post
    I am seriously considering playing legacy again & this is the deck I'm looking at. Goblin Crater Maker looks awesome and DRShaman is banned!
    That's great! Goblins put up some nice results lately, and while having troubles VS combo decks it's fairly well positioned VS most of the fair decks. The new cards are certainly doing some serious work! Looking forward to see your take on the deck 😊

  3. #1643
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Going to an "fnm" type of legacy tonight, will run something based off of this:

    Land stuff:
    1-2 Plateau
    3-4 Mountains
    6 Fetchlands
    4 Wasteland
    3-4 Rishadan Port
    4 Cavern of Souls (23-24 lands total)

    4 Aether Vial

    Goblin stuff:
    One cmc:
    4 Goblin Lackey
    2-3 Tarfire
    0-1 Skirk Prospector

    Two cmc:
    4 Mogg War Marshall
    2-3 Goblin Cratermaker
    0-1 Stingscourger
    1-4 Goblin Piledriver

    Three cmc:
    4 Goblin Matron
    3-4 Goblin Warchief
    1-4 Gempalm Incinerator
    0-1 Goblin Chieftain
    0-1 Goblin Sharpshooter

    Four cmc:
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    0-1 Krenko, Mob Boss
    1 Goblin Trashmaster
    0-1 Lightning Crafter
    0-1 Goblin Settler

    Five cmc:
    1 Siege-Gang Commander
    0-1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

    Sideboard Potentials:
    (W stuff)
    Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    Containment Priest
    Ethersworn Canonist
    Rest in Peace
    Wear // Tear

    (Colorless stuff)
    Phyrexian Revoker
    Pithing Needle
    Chalice of the Void
    Warping Wail (Can get Mother of Runes in addition to other abilities)
    With "Thorn of Amethyst" This could go Mono Red Goblins without the Thalia's, but Thalia can also be Vialed in, & Cavern of Soul'ed in. I'm on the fence about mono red -vs- splashing white. I really prefer mono red if one can get away with it.

    (Goblins)
    Goblin Chainwhirler (mini sweeper against toughness 1 creatures)
    Goblin Chirurgeon (pay 0: Sac a goblin to regenerate a target creature)
    Vexing Shusher (More uncounterable ability)
    Another Stingscourger
    Possibly a second Goblin Trashmaster
    Possibly a second Goblin Settler
    A single +1/+1 Goblin Lord of some kind, maybe another chieftain, or a Goblin King.
    Remaining Goblin Cratermaker's that don't make it to the main
    + any 1 of Goblins that don't make it to the main, but are worthy of the sideboard.

    (Other red stuff)
    Sudden Demise
    Magus of the Moon
    Pyrokinesis
    Confusion in the Ranks (Depends on how common Show and Tell is at my local meta)
    Possibly some number of Red Blasts/Pyroblasts

    I'm looking at lists from multiple websites (The council / Mtg top 8 / GP & SCG finishes / previous posts in this thread since the banning of DeathRite Shaman, etc. Will post more if I find more potentials and add them to the list)
    Last edited by feline; 10-09-2018 at 10:58 AM.

  4. #1644
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    You really just don't need Tarfire anymore, some people run it if their meta has a lot of Elves, Infect, Grixis Delver, D&T, but otherwise Grixis Delver is handled by the bodies we play, and D&T is handled by Cratermaker and Trashman, while the other two don't see nearly as much play as they used to. It's like hedging for the 3% chance to see it. That said I can't imagine going below 2 Gempalms. It's the number two thing I tutor for. [Ringleader > Gempalm > Another Matron > The Rest]

    Success has been reported with both 1 Piledriver, and 4 Piledriver, currently, they both have merits, and are one of the major points of contention in deck design right now. Do try both when you are starting out, finding the one that fits your playstyle.

    Honestly, in my opinion, Crafter and Settler are traps. I wouldn't run them unless I was on a Warren Instigator list, as those can truly take advantage of them in one go. The classic shell requires simply more to go right when that comes down.

    On singletons: Obviously the Matron Tutorbox is a wonderful thing, but going too deep lowers consistency in your average draw. Be wary of too many. Kind of like Traditional Elves versus Chaos Elves. One earned it's name for a reason.

    Ya just don't need Vexing Shusher. Cavern of Souls solved that problem a long time ago.

    Good luck, have fun!

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  5. #1645

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    if you are looking for a +1/+1 goblin lord effect to put in the sideboard I highly suggest Boartusk Liege. The 3/4 body and 4 mana makes only hydroblast kill it cleanly and push kill it conditionally against Grixis control.

  6. #1646
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Quackers View Post
    if you are looking for a +1/+1 goblin lord effect to put in the sideboard I highly suggest Boartusk Liege. The 3/4 body and 4 mana makes only hydroblast kill it cleanly and push kill it conditionally against Grixis control.
    Let's put Boartusk Liege to bed, shall we? Trashmaster is strictly better in every regard except that it dies to Bolt. There is no reason to continue running Liege at this point.

  7. #1647

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    Let's put Boartusk Liege to bed, shall we? Trashmaster is strictly better in every regard except that it dies to Bolt. There is no reason to continue running Liege at this point.
    But grixis is a deck that many people are struggling against, and grixis happens to run some number of bolt. So not dying to bolt actually is something to differentiate it and consider. That being said, I don't run it and do run trashmaster. But just dismissing it entirely I think is on the foolish side.

  8. #1648

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Olaf Forkbeard View Post
    You really just don't need Tarfire anymore, some people run it if their meta has a lot of Elves, Infect, Grixis Delver, D&T, but otherwise Grixis Delver is handled by the bodies we play, and D&T is handled by Cratermaker and Trashman, while the other two don't see nearly as much play as they used to. It's like hedging for the 3% chance to see it. That said I can't imagine going below 2 Gempalms. It's the number two thing I tutor for. [Ringleader > Gempalm > Another Matron > The Rest]

    Success has been reported with both 1 Piledriver, and 4 Piledriver, currently, they both have merits, and are one of the major points of contention in deck design right now. Do try both when you are starting out, finding the one that fits your playstyle.

    Honestly, in my opinion, Crafter and Settler are traps. I wouldn't run them unless I was on a Warren Instigator list, as those can truly take advantage of them in one go. The classic shell requires simply more to go right when that comes down.

    On singletons: Obviously the Matron Tutorbox is a wonderful thing, but going too deep lowers consistency in your average draw. Be wary of too many. Kind of like Traditional Elves versus Chaos Elves. One earned it's name for a reason.

    Ya just don't need Vexing Shusher. Cavern of Souls solved that problem a long time ago.

    Good luck, have fun!
    There are a couple of pros for tarfire, hitting pw's can be relevant, but I'm going to cut them entirely...it is nice in opener to deal with moms and delvers early on, after that i usually want gempalm for CA anyways.

    I agree on crafter/settler, but i'm still trying out settler...sometimes he is just so timely and plays really hard into the mana denial plan, if only he was 2R...my list i'm tinkering on is sooo tight that i think he has to go as he's too cute right now, and with him gone i think i'll cut kiki, too. I just have been supremely underwhelmed with SGC. I'm a Krenko truther and have always ran two.

    Would love to have a 65 card deck minimum earth-shaking rule change, ughhh...

  9. #1649

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    As far as the boartusk liege....c'mon guys. Playing him to dodge lightning bolt is like, extremely narrow.

  10. #1650
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Had another large tournament this weekend, probably will get anoter chance to play Legacy in 1 year with how few legacy tournaments are organized in Finland :(

    I made a huge mistake of not going sleep early and my gameplay was ass.

    // 60 Maindeck
    // 4 Artifact
    4 Aether Vial

    // 31 Creature
    4 Gempalm Incinerator
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Goblin Matron
    2 Goblin Piledriver
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    1 Goblin Sharpshooter
    1 Goblin Trashmaster
    4 Goblin Warchief
    3 Mogg War Marshal
    1 Siege-Gang Commander
    1 Skirk Prospector
    1 Stingscourger
    1 Goblin Cratermaker

    // 2 Instant
    2 Tarfire

    // 23 Land
    4 Arid Mesa
    4 Cavern of Souls
    5 Mountain
    4 Rishadan Port
    4 Wasteland
    1 Wooded Foothills
    1 Badlands


    // 15 Sideboard
    SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
    SB: 2 Pyrokinesis
    SB: 1 Karakas
    SB: 2 Thoughtseize
    SB: 4 Cabal Therapy
    SB: 2 Victimize (tech vs Grixis control)


    Match 1 Grixis Control with Punishing Fire and Dack Fayden
    G1 I mull to 5, its gas if I draw red source, I bottom my scry and proceed to not draw a land in 5 draw steps
    G2 My opponent is doing Grixis things but Im keeping up despite him stealing my Vial's with Dack Fayden and Kolaghan's Commanding me twice. When he is about to stabilize I topdeck Victimize and sac a Goblin token for Siege-Gang and Warchief, the hasty Siege-Gang tokens do lethals since he doesnt have enough spot removal/blockers.
    G3 He doesnt find enough removal and Piledriver ends the game fast.

    Match 2 Merfolk
    G1 I had decision to sit back and try to build big turn with Piledriver or hit hard with Piledriver and drop opponent low and hope to get enough goblins for another big blow. He had True-Name and 2 Vials and as it turned out 4 lords in hand, I think I made the right decision trying to race but I was 1 damage short and Stingscourger bounce vs Vial @ 2 was useless. I had to draw just 1 goblin in 2 draws and I failed.
    G2 I obliterate him, Piledrivers are pretty good here.
    G3 I mull to 6, OK hand but no Vial or Lackey. My opponent has slow start as well but absolutely destroys me with Back to Basics on turn 4, his True-Name slowly kills me.

    Match 3 Big Eldrazi
    G1 he floods
    G2 I flood
    G3 I didnt attack with my Ringleader and missed lethals because of it later on in the match, I think I placed my Ringleader too far to make room for the reveal so I didnt realize it was on board. That or I was just so sleep deprived I didnt realize it had haste.

    So I beat the hardest matchup and lost to the two I consider very winnable. I decided to drop and head home since I had headache at this point (and only top12 had prizes so my chances were 0).

  11. #1651
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    @dsck

    Victimize! Who knew? That's a great looking sb card for Grixis Control. Thanks for the report!

  12. #1652
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins




    so after a couple of hours playtesting my last list i made the "final" changes

    Choices I made

    So, first I went back to 4 Piledriver. The blowout potential with it is needed against a lot of unfair decks, it also runs through TNNs, Strix, Delver and so on. Since I was down on 1, this is a huge change, but what I didnt like about Pile that it often sat there as a lonely 1/2 that was waiting for a warchief or something to get enabled. But with a healthy amount of 1-drops its never alone again :D

    To fight one of the biggest weaknesses of standard lists - slow and clunky hands I cut on 3 drops and upped one drops. That makes the deck much smoother and Prospector helps with heavy R cost and does a lot of other shenenigans. Im very sold on Loyalist now, it pushes some additional damage early and helps Piledriver blowout a lot! On the discord some see it as Win-more card, but it actually enables wins on stalled boards and squeezes in additional damage in the early game.

    Earwig Squad, man I really enjoy this card, it makes comboMUs actually fair. I honestly would love to run 3, but spots are tight and sometimes its too clunky.


    2 Cratermaker - seems about the right amount. Pretty much settled for every list right now.

    1of Stingscourger main. Never cut it, its an out or winning card in sooo many situations, I use it almost every game.

    1 of SCG - still the guy with the biggest impact and another unicorn card thats the only out in certain situations. Always run 1
    1of Trashmaster. Not neccessarily a maindeck card, but I went for my obligatory 61st toolbox card and Trashmaster is the first choice here. Its a blowout to a reasonable amount of metadecks. Cut it if you dont trust the math on 61 cards.
    1 Chainwhirler - not too much so say about this guy. Its a beefy body, clears a lot of boards, but the manacost is steep. One tutor target seems right. But can probably easily a 2nd Warchief or a Chieftain as well. Its the only "flex" slot for me right now.

    Most noticable cuts:
    As said in my last post, I exchanged Gempalms for Fanatics (and Cratermaker) Gempalm was too slow in many situations or just a dead card against unfair decks. Again, more 1 drops help a lot with early (Piledriver) aggression and Fanatic deals with most problematic stuff. The sac ability is also relevant blocking Jittes or removing Bridges. With loyalist you can also attack with Piledriver into big threats, so no neccessity anymore to remove them.

    Warchief got replaced by Squads. I know, we are very conservative cutting on core cards, but Warchief is just too slow in current meta. In the early game its just a hasty gray ogre, often you cant follow up with another goblin because the R is limited and again the deck was too heavy on 3 drops. I never missed the additional copies and although Im happy to have one in the later turns, I never tutored for one.


    SB: Not much too see here and anyway an never ending story.
    4 Leylines because everything else seemed too slow against reanimator. Is usually 3 Surgicals/1 Relic
    4 Chalice - might be replaced by Leyline of Sancity after some more testings.
    3 Blood Moon - pretty standard
    1 Whirler. Nice to have and replacement for Pyrokinesis (another cut from the "oldschool" list, but while Kinesis is a little faster, chances you naturally draw in one of them are not that high and after a couple of turns Whirler is just better - cant be countered, no removal of redcard, can be tutored/rinleadered)
    3 Confusion - Dedicated SNT spots, will also be boarded against reanimator


    I know its tough to introduce changes to the old list, (I remember how long it took until ppl started to adopt Tarfire), but the next time you sit there with a clunky hand and not enough red sources, consider testing my list ;)

    TL;DR: warchief -> squads. same cc (most of the time) but better body and combo hoser
    and gempalms -> fanatics and loyalist. fanatics deal with the early threats and loyalist kinda functions the same midgame to obsolete road blocks

    both 1 drops also synergize with squads and piledrivers and help smoothing the curve


    Last edited by Humphrey; 10-16-2018 at 10:46 PM.
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  13. #1653
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    @Humphrey cool list, Id love to hear some of your results. Id be more into it if you gave up the 5 drops for three more Gempalms and just went monoR. Im digging the idea of using so many one drops.


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  14. #1654

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by Bichon_Blitz View Post
    As far as the boartusk liege....c'mon guys. Playing him to dodge lightning bolt is like, extremely narrow.
    2 bolts, 3 snap out of grixis control makes it a lot less narrow than you'd intuitively believe. These games go long, usually both people seeing 20+ cards throughout the game. They will get a bolt almost every game.

  15. #1655
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    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    @Humphrey cool list, Id love to hear some of your results. Id be more into it if you gave up the 5 drops for three more Gempalms and just went monoR. Im digging the idea of using so many one drops.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    squads are virtually 3 drops, but they also fill the role of a beefy clock in the early turns with either prowl or plain lackey. and removing cards is soo helpful, since you can either strip their wincons, slow their development or get out/blowout cards. i didnt like them in the past, but with the adjustments made, theyre my favorite card in the deck right now.
    the manacost also help dodge removal like fatal push. as i said in the post before, cutting on highend gobs makes lackey really unsatisfying and scg still is incredible for swing turns. ive never been a huge fan of gempalms and only ran 4 during a really short period where i also had 4 mwm and 2 krenko. if you want to run more than 1 id either cut whirler, trashmaster, a cratermaker or a fanatic.

    since im planning to attend gp prague in january and im so happy gobs are back in the meta, ill playtest the shit out of the deck lol, so maybe the list will get altered.
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  16. #1656
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    Re: Earwig Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Humphrey View Post
    squads are virtually 3 drops, but they also fill the role of a beefy clock in the early turns with either prowl or plain lackey. and removing cards is soo helpful, since you can either strip their wincons, slow their development or get out/blowout cards. i didnt like them in the past, but with the adjustments made, theyre my favorite card in the deck right now.
    the manacost also help dodge removal like fatal push. as i said in the post before, cutting on highend gobs makes lackey really unsatisfying and scg still is incredible for swing turns. ive never been a huge fan of gempalms and only ran 4 during a really short period where i also had 4 mwm and 2 krenko. if you want to run more than 1 id either cut whirler, trashmaster, a cratermaker or a fanatic.

    since im planning to attend gp prague in january and im so happy gobs are back in the meta, ill playtest the shit out of the deck lol, so maybe the list will get altered.
    I'm a big fan of Earwig Squad, but I've never gone as far as you have with the 1-drops.

    If that's your core plan, especially vs combo, I think you should consider a 3rd or 4th Prospector to enable more T2 Earwigs. The difference between T2 and T3 is often the difference between winning and losing. 3rd Earwig in the board is also justifiable for this plan.
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  17. #1657
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    Re: Earwig Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Sockosensei View Post
    I'm a big fan of Earwig Squad, but I've never gone as far as you have with the 1-drops.

    If that's your core plan, especially vs combo, I think you should consider a 3rd or 4th Prospector to enable more T2 Earwigs. The difference between T2 and T3 is often the difference between winning and losing. 3rd Earwig in the board is also justifiable for this plan.
    4 Skirk and like 3-4 Squads seems excessive in non-combo MU and finding cuts almost impossible, but i might test it some point. Stuffing the remaining 2-2 in the sb as the anti combo tech seems VERY interesting though. tuning the deck that a t1 skirk is as horrifying as a t1 lackey seems like a plan i like.
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  18. #1658
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    Re: Earwig Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by Humphrey View Post
    4 Skirk and like 3-4 Squads seems excessive in non-combo MU and finding cuts almost impossible, but i might test it some point. Stuffing the remaining 2-2 in the sb as the anti combo tech seems VERY interesting though. tuning the deck that a t1 skirk is as horrifying as a t1 lackey seems like a plan i like.
    T1 Skirk, go.

    Here's a weird thought along those lines. You could cut a Loyalist for a third Prospector to help get your T2 Earwig Squads in. And since you're running maindeck black cards maybe you could reduce the risk of being hosed by Wasteland if you cut the RR or RRR cards from your deck. That way you can T2 Earwig and not suffer as much from your opponent Wasting your Badlands afterwards. Cutting Warchief, Trashman and Whirler would let you run some Legion Warbosses instead, which might be a good fit for an easy to cast 3-drop.

  19. #1659
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    Re: Earwig Plan

    Quote Originally Posted by jrw1985 View Post
    T1 Skirk, go.

    Here's a weird thought along those lines. You could cut a Loyalist for a third Prospector to help get your T2 Earwig Squads in. And since you're running maindeck black cards maybe you could reduce the risk of being hosed by Wasteland if you cut the RR or RRR cards from your deck. That way you can T2 Earwig and not suffer as much from your opponent Wasting your Badlands afterwards. Cutting Warchief, Trashman and Whirler would let you run some Legion Warbosses instead, which might be a good fit for an easy to cast 3-drop.
    ideally you want to cast squads from caverns, so you dont need to fetch for badlands. with 2 or even 3 skirks couple of R is still reliable at the cost of saccing sth ofc. In my games with Warboss I wasnt to excited, since he is pretty fragile. On the other hand if we really want to alter the deck towards skirks its another strong 3 drop (potentially t2) that can win games on its own. not sure about cutting a loyalist, although one might be fine as well. problem is he usually dies on the swing turn or gets removed so you want a second for lethal. and first strike trample squads are really nice. with warboss you also have reliably 3 creatures. we might have sth here, cutting mwm for warboss and up skirks. ill test in the next days. feel free to pm me when you want to test on xmage or better trice.


    EDIT:

    After a couple of games that plan turned out as expected. Bad. Sacrificing one of gobs strength having a variety of answers in our toolbox for a narrow gameplan doesnt work. Warboss is just a dead card in too many matchups (one Thalia makes it completely useless) and not having MWMs is also bad. Overloading on Squads is also not a good plan against a wide field, since then it indeed forces you to fetch on badlands. Multiple Skirks also add nothing to the deck.

    So, it was a nice and short adventure, but im back to my list, but will test an additional Squad in the SB.
    Last edited by Humphrey; 10-21-2018 at 04:11 AM.
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  20. #1660

    Re: [Deck] Vial Goblins

    // 60 Maindeck

    4 Aether Vial
    2 Gempalm Incinerator
    4 Goblin Lackey
    4 Goblin Matron
    2 Mox chrome
    4 Goblin Ringleader
    1 Goblin king
    1 Goblin Trashmaster
    2 chieftain
    1 goblin Settler
    1 krenko
    1 goblin wizard
    1 Kiki jiki
    4 Warren instigator
    1 Siege-Gang Commander
    1 grenzo
    1 chainwhiler
    2 Goblin Cratermaker
    3 blood moon
    2 ancient tomb
    4 Cavern of Souls
    10 Mountain
    2 Wasteland
    2 karakas


    // 15 Sideboard
    SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
    SB: 2 Pyrokinesis
    3 chalice
    2 amethyst
    2 spyglass
    2 confusion in the ranks

    I have been playing competitive league on mol, so far at least 3-2. Never less than that.

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  1. Amon Amarth