Noble BUG

[Zirath]

Curious how this deck is performing for everyone.

I took a list very close to Reid's (-1 Goyf, -1 Cut, +1 Angler, +1 Push) to Mythic on Saturday. I screwed up both my win-and-ins. I also changed the sideboard around a bit but I kinda screwed it up. I feel that I need to build some intuition with this deck still. It's a big difference from playing Bant in a lot of ways. That being said, it is still incredibly powerful.

[theMonster]

I took a list very close to Reid's (-1 Goyf, -1 Cut, +1 Angler, +1 Push) to Mythic on Saturday. I screwed up both my win-and-ins. I also changed the sideboard around a bit but I kinda screwed it up. I feel that I need to build some intuition with this deck still. It's a big difference from playing Bant in a lot of ways. That being said, it is still incredibly powerful.

Can you expand on that, Zirath, and discuss what you learned about how the deck plays? And what did you try in the sideboard?

[Zirath]

Can you expand on that, Zirath, and discuss what you learned about how the deck plays? And what did you try in the sideboard?

I'm a little busy today, so I won't be able to put up my sideboard until later. However, this deck requires you to plan your turns carefully. Because of your mana creatures, you have the ability to play a longer game consistently, unlike Delver. That being said, turn 1 plays are critical. At the moment, I would probably cut 1 Jace for another Ponder or Thoughtseize. Many games, you are able to ride True-Name + Leovold/Jace to victory. However, you need to set up that board state and protect it. Deathrite Shaman is a mana dork before a threat. The games where I was using it to end the game, I was either losing or stuck. It felt bad.

Shardless was a match up I felt underprepared for. Most specifically, I forgot to put Loam in my sideboard despite knowing I wanted it (Friday nights are hard). I would play Loam next time 100%.

[twndomn]

so...., most people are moving away from GSZ? I understand that GSZ for Goyf seems silly, but I do feel that GSZ for Leovold is still a strong play, I know Reid cut it at the end, I still like it as one of. I'm actually looking for GSZ for a higher impact card than a Goyf but keep the package. Something like, Sigarda host of herons or Dragonlord dromoka. With all the Mana dorks, I feel the White Mana isn't really an issue, in case you need to hardcast it.

[Whitefaces]

so...., most people are moving away from GSZ? I understand that GSZ for Goyf seems silly, but I do feel that GSZ for Leovold is still a strong play, I know Reid cut it at the end, I still like it as one of. I'm actually looking for GSZ for a higher impact card than a Goyf but keep the package. Something like, Sigarda host of herons or Dragonlord dromoka. With all the Mana dorks, I feel the White Mana isn't really an issue, in case you need to hardcast it.

Nobody was really on GSZ to begin with, it's only Reid that played them, and has not deemed them good enough. I don't hate the idea of one like you say, but it doesn't fit the curve of the deck.

As for Sigarda and Dromoka, those are much too high mana costs for the deck to support, even with all the dorks. The deck has a focused gameplan of TNN already, you don't need these fatties.

[twndomn]

Nobody was really on GSZ to begin with, it's only Reid that played them, and has not deemed them good enough. I don't hate the idea of one like you say, but it doesn't fit the curve of the deck.

As for Sigarda and Dromoka, those are much too high mana costs for the deck to support, even with all the dorks. The deck has a focused gameplan of TNN already, you don't need these fatties.

Yeah, those fatties aren't needed I suppose. However, recently I have found that GSZ into Teeg is Great!! Some Miracles players just don't see it coming and they are stuck once Teeg's in play.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Sure, but the deck is already (imo, Reid never lost to Miracles the 4 times he played it @louisville) favored to beat miracles. I'd rather use the slots for the bug mirror, whatever it may be that ends up being good enough to help that particular matchup.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Manipulato]

Hey guys,
today I played my locals and finished 4:1 at 3rd place.

Played the following list:

4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Noble Hierarch
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2 Snapcaster Mage

4 Abrupt Decay
2 Fatal Push
1 Umezawas Jitte

4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Thoughtseize

4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
1 Sylvan Library

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
1 Forest
1 Island

SIDEBOARD
2 Spell Pierce
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Make Obsolete
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Pithing Needle
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Umezawa's Jitte

FoW 23

Round 1: Burn (Won 2:0)

Round 2: Enchantress (Won 2:0)

Round 3: Elves (Lost 0:2)

Round 4: Burn (Won 2:1)

Round 5: Miracles (Won 2:0)

I only won my first Burn MU because my oponent had 56 cards in his deck and got a game loss so normally I would have lost here...The burn MU felt super difficult and is only winnable if we have the perfect opener with manadork + T2 TNN and enough countermagic or Jitte afterwards. Otherwise we can counter something here and there but still lose because of the lack of a clock.

Enchantress got completely destroyed by Leovold but it's a fringe MU anyways.

Vs Elves I had the same problem like in the burn MU, no pressure on my side and no Jitte, make Obsolete was also really medium here because he had DS + Nettle Sentinel or Scavenging Ooze with 2 toughness...

The Miracles mu felt like a cakewalk, really positive with TNN, Leovold, AD & Jace.

All in all I'm not 100% happy with the deck and have to work on it. Maybe i replace the 2 SCM with 2 Vendilion Clique or Tarmogoyf. Maybe I try Marsh Casualties next time to get rid of annoying x/2s but the bb with sorcery speed is tough here and there especially vs DnT with all the mana denial...

Greetings

[btm10]

Goyf seems to make more sense, at least to me. People are just being silly saying that it's bad because of Fatal Push. As for D&T, it might be time to go back to good old Massacre. It kills a lot of our guys, but being free (or costing 1) is a lot in return for awkward sequencing. Their recent move toward more X/2s means you might have to suck it up a run a 'real' sweeper. Deluge is also an option.

[pow22]

Hi all,

I've been experimenting with a more GSZ-oriented version of the deck to some (limited) success recently:


4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Deathrite Shaman
3 Baleful Strix
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 True-Name Nemesis
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice

4 Brainstorm
1 Thoughtseize
2 Fatal Push
3 Abrupt Decay

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Sylvan Library

4 Force of Will

4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Scrubland
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Dryad Arbor
2 Wasteland

SB:
2 Flusterstorm
2 Meddling Mage
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Zealous Persecution
1 Blue Elemental Blast
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Pithing Needle
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Rest in Peace
1 Thoughtseize
1 Umezawa's Jitte


I really like the way that Reid's 8-dork list plays out, but it's obviously pretty awkward to draw mana creatures late in the game. GSZ for Arbor turn one is worse than just playing out a Hierach or Deathrite, but it gives the deck a bit more consistency, IMHO, and allows us to cut back on the mana guys a little. Leovold is either awesome or terrible depending on the board state and match-up so I like playing six in the match-ups where he's relevant and two in the match-ups where he's not.

Edric, Spymaster of Trest might be too cute, but I feel his inclusion is worthwhile from a flavor standpoint and he pitches to Force like a boss. I've had games against D+T where Edric has allowed me to be more proactive in attacking with strixes to force chump blocks rather than having to sit back until they get a Sword of Fire and Ice online.

Atraxa, Praetors' Voice is intended as a high-impact GSZ-able finisher. She does a decent job racing opposing True-Names or Mirran Crusader, but weakens the mana and is terrible against Karakas. Not sure if there's a better option out there.

In theory I like the white splash more for the sideboard. In sideboarding with Reid's deck I often wanted to cut TNNs vs combo since tapping out for a 3/1 attacker on turn 2 or 3 seems pretty bad, but, at the same time, you don't really want to cut threats or blue cards just for answers. Meddling Mage attacks, disrupts, pitches to Force of Will, and has cool art. I'm not sure what more you could ask for in a piece of cardboard. To be honest, game one against combo is pretty challenging with only the Forces and a one-of Thoughtseize, but I think that was a problem with Reid's GP list too. You probably want to be playing a different deck in a combo-heavy meta.

White also gives you Zealous Persecution for the mirror.

Thus far I've played the deck through two leagues online and top 8'ed a 30 player local event. (I don't have Fatal Pushes online yet so have been running a Disfigure and Dismember in those slots.)

League 1 (2-3 :( ):
R1: D+T win (2-0)
R2: BUG Aluren loss (0-2)
R3: ANT win (2-0)
R4: UR delver loss (0-2)
R5: Same UR opponent again loss (0-2)

I tweaked the mana a bit before the second league run:

League 2 (5-0):
R1: ANT win (2-1)
R2: Aggro Loam win (2-0)
R3: Sneak and Show win (2-0)
R4: Miracles win (2-0)
R5: BUG Delver win (2-1)

Local event (7th?):
R1: RB Reanimator win (2-1)
R2: D+T win (2-0)
R3: D+T loss (1-2)
R4: Miracles win (2-0)
R5: Id
QF: D+T loss (1-2)

The D+T match-up feels *extremely* close and grindy, with their critical cards being Mirran Crusader, Sword of Fire and Ice, or any pro-blue sword, and Umezawa's Jitte. I'm usually happy to see an opponent fetching Batterskull with their turn two Mystic because it gets stonewalled by TNN all day. I'm rather less happy when it turns out that they naturally drew Sword of Body and Mind and swing with an unblockable wolf-generating mill stick on their turn four.

The main-deck Scavenging Ooze has been a little underwhelming, so I might move those to the sideboard. The deck probably needs a green two-drop to Zenith for, though -- Goyf or Grim Flayer are the obvious options. (Other ideas?) Jitte might be better main over the single Thoughtseize too.

Burn and UR delver feel like a disaster. Atraxa just isn't quite fast enough to stabilize.

Anyway, thanks for reading. Hopefully this is the correct thread to discuss 4 color monstrosities like this!

[redtwister]

I like this deck, tinkering with something like this for now:

Creature 15
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Noble Hierarch
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Gurmag Angler

Instant 15
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Fatal Push
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm

Artifact 1
1 Umezawas Jitte

Sorcery 4
2 Thoughtseize
2 Ponder

Enchantment 1
1 Sylvan Library

Planeswalker 3
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Land 21
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
1 Forest
1 Swamp

SIDEBOARD
2 Flusterstorm
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Pithing Needle
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Fatal Push
1 Painful Truths
1 Thoughtseize
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Dread of Night
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Umezawa's Jitte

21 FoW fodder U spells. Can't cut it below that, I think.

I have not liked Gurmag Angler as much as I thought I would have, even though I have taken out Murderous Cut. I definitely get Tarmogoyf in the deck because it is more like TNN #5 and an easy 2 mana play with Daze up.

My local is Baltimore-based, so DnT, Lands, Miracles, but also Reanimator, Storm, and High tide, even, are quite played competitively. As such, I understand the Flusterstorms and MBTs. Unless that stuff went away in my locals, I have to keep somewhat excessive combo hate, I think. Also, it has some use against Burn and not sure what else we have aside from Jitte #2. I could see the point of replacing Flusterstorm or MBT with Spell Pierce, but it is worse versus Combo.

DnT is very tough, actually, and Wr with Magus is extremely difficult if they land Magus of the Moon. I think Dread of Night is a solid choice because you want that turn 1 against them. Also, the lack of 1 cmc removal before Fatal Push is very significant, since you want to kill Mom before she is live. Decay is bnot good against Mom and then you need multiple removal spells, and if they land 2 Mom, you are in huge trouble without TNN + Jitte.

Elves and other decks that can go wide are also tough, however, so I want some kind of sweeper and if I need to cast something for -x/-x, I probably don't have a resolved TNN or my opponent is going wide and my lone TNN is doing nothing, in which case, I need to unconditionally clear the board and the life is worth it. Often, you only want it for -1/-1 or -2/-2, so Leovold and Goyf will live just fine, which we also need to consider. Toxic Deluge is my choice, for the moment, because I don't just want to hit x/1 creatures and I don't just want to hit W creatures.

I understand Submerge, but I think I will still stick with Diabolic Edict because of it's wider application.

Swamp/Forest over Island/Forest despite Daze and UUx spells because mana denial often required me to find something I could cast for Bx mana and the Forest is there simply for mana dorks. Also, anyone notice the color of our sideboard? Tons of Bx costed spells.

Main Fatal Push feels important, but I am not sure what to cut for another. Library? Thoughtseize? Sylvan Library is so good in so many matches, and it has a different role from Painful Truths. Thoughtseize is so good against decks with Stoneforge Mystic, since early you then steal the equipment they grabbed, never mind perfect knowledge and generally that hand destruction. 3rd Jace?

Also, what about a 1-of Life from the Loam in the side?

[UGish]

Not sure if this is the right place to post my list but I've been making NO BUG work since the top banning and the best list I've put it in is Reid's True-name/Noble BUG.

My list,
NO BUG

4 deathrite
3 hierarch
3 true-name
2 strix
1 progenitus
************************* 13
4 force
4 brain
4 ponder
4 natural order
3 thoughtseize
4 abrupt decay
2 fatal push
1 Daze
1 Sylvan library

********************* 27

4 verdant catacombs
4 misty
2 polluted
3 u-sea
2 trop
1 bayou
1 forest
1 dryad* arbor
1 wasteland
************************ 19

2 Pithing needle
1 jitte
1 tormods crypt
1 flusterstorm
2 marsh casualties
2 snapcaster
2 Counterspell
2 Tasigur
2 Surgicals


Most weeks at the local it's 3-1 or 4-0 . I've had some 2-2 finishes that could have been better with a better pilot.

What do you think? I think Natural Order is very strong right now.
My local meta is very fair , combo decks are 1 in 4, ANT or sneak and show or reanimater or dredge or something weird...
The 4th Ponder is sometimes a Jace, with a Jace instead of Flusterstorm in the board.
The single Wasteland is leftovers from having 3. I will most likely put a Fetch or a Trop in that spot.
Thanks for reading

[UGish]

I like this deck, tinkering with something like this for now:

Creature 15
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Noble Hierarch
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Gurmag Angler

Instant 15
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Fatal Push
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm

Artifact 1
1 Umezawas Jitte

Sorcery 4
2 Thoughtseize
2 Ponder

Enchantment 1
1 Sylvan Library

Planeswalker 3
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Land 21
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
1 Forest
1 Swamp

SIDEBOARD
2 Flusterstorm
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Pithing Needle
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Fatal Push
1 Painful Truths
1 Thoughtseize
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Dread of Night
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Umezawa's Jitte

21 FoW fodder U spells. Can't cut it below that, I think.

I have not liked Gurmag Angler as much as I thought I would have, even though I have taken out Murderous Cut. I definitely get Tarmogoyf in the deck because it is more like TNN #5 and an easy 2 mana play with Daze up.

My local is Baltimore-based, so DnT, Lands, Miracles, but also Reanimator, Storm, and High tide, even, are quite played competitively. As such, I understand the Flusterstorms and MBTs. Unless that stuff went away in my locals, I have to keep somewhat excessive combo hate, I think. Also, it has some use against Burn and not sure what else we have aside from Jitte #2. I could see the point of replacing Flusterstorm or MBT with Spell Pierce, but it is worse versus Combo.

DnT is very tough, actually, and Wr with Magus is extremely difficult if they land Magus of the Moon. I think Dread of Night is a solid choice because you want that turn 1 against them. Also, the lack of 1 cmc removal before Fatal Push is very significant, since you want to kill Mom before she is live. Decay is bnot good against Mom and then you need multiple removal spells, and if they land 2 Mom, you are in huge trouble without TNN + Jitte.

Elves and other decks that can go wide are also tough, however, so I want some kind of sweeper and if I need to cast something for -x/-x, I probably don't have a resolved TNN or my opponent is going wide and my lone TNN is doing nothing, in which case, I need to unconditionally clear the board and the life is worth it. Often, you only want it for -1/-1 or -2/-2, so Leovold and Goyf will live just fine, which we also need to consider. Toxic Deluge is my choice, for the moment, because I don't just want to hit x/1 creatures and I don't just want to hit W creatures.

I understand Submerge, but I think I will still stick with Diabolic Edict because of it's wider application.

Swamp/Forest over Island/Forest despite Daze and UUx spells because mana denial often required me to find something I could cast for Bx mana and the Forest is there simply for mana dorks. Also, anyone notice the color of our sideboard? Tons of Bx costed spells.

Main Fatal Push feels important, but I am not sure what to cut for another. Library? Thoughtseize? Sylvan Library is so good in so many matches, and it has a different role from Painful Truths. Thoughtseize is so good against decks with Stoneforge Mystic, since early you then steal the equipment they grabbed, never mind perfect knowledge and generally that hand destruction. 3rd Jace?

Also, what about a 1-of Life from the Loam in the side?

I've been using Marsh Casualties in the board for Dnt and Elves. One sided Wrath and with all the mana dorks and TNN in our deck it's what we want. Also, I've been able to kick it when casting it too!!

[ParisFlorian]

Are there still people playing this deck ?
I am toying around Sultai builds (Control with Strix & Hymns, Nic Fit...) and imho this one is really strong.

Here is my list :

4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Tarmogoyf
4 True-Name Nemesis

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Liliana, the Last Hope

3 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
1 Diabolic Edict
4 Force of Will
2 Ponder
1 Sylvan Library
2 Thoughtseize

1 Bayou
1 Forest
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland

1 Bitterblossom
1 Engineered Plague
2 Flusterstorm
1 Garruk Relentless (i am testing this one, not 100% sure)
2 Hydroblast
1 Life from the Loam
1 Marsh Casualties (should be 2 ?)
2 Mindbreak Trap
2 Submerge
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Vendilion Clique