Noble BUG

[KobeBryan]

This is the key to beating traditional beatdown decks with TNN decks. TNN is almost unbeatable since the color combinations can't remove TNN easily, so it either stalls or it's a race. Against a deck like Maverick, they are forced to bring in Zealous Persecution, which can hurt them as well.

How does it hurt them? The only problem i see is that they have to play black

[Zirath]

Zp gives your dudes +1/+1 and opposing dudes-1/-1 It's not Golgari Charm...

Sorry, was thinking of Charm. My bad. I retract my statement I made in my delirium.

[Manipulato]

Any results or test games from anybody? Have a tournament in 2 weeks and I'm not 100% sold on the exact 75 so far.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

While I did alter the list slightly (-2 Thoughtseize, -1 goyf, -1 Island, +2 Stifle, +1 Snapcaster, +1 Swamp), my testing has been good. This build hasn't dropped a game against Miracles thus far, however the number of games played is admittedly around 10. Having said that, I'm still pretty pleased with it.

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[Traveler]

Any results or test games from anybody? Have a tournament in 2 weeks and I'm not 100% sold on the exact 75 so far.

After playing some warmup games in the Tourney practice room I ran Reid's latest video build (It has a GSZ Main instead of 1 TS) through a league today:

0-2 Goblins with green splash (Didn't see Port or Waste all match, maybe budget build?)

1-2 OmniSneak

(Perfect draw game one of Island into Boseiju, he fought a battle over my brainstorm turn 2 with a pierce, I dazed it, he forces, I let it resolve, and cast another off Noble looking for a wasteland which I do not find, Turn 3 he gets Omni into play, I force his ponder that was his last card in hand, next turn he topdecks Emrakul and casts it)

Game 2 I win by countering 2 Show and Tells by his turn 5 after wasting his topdecked Boseiju.

Game 3 he has turn 3 Show and Tell off ancient tomb, I can't daze it. I lose.

2-1 Aluren

2-0 Esper Jank: Featuring Preordain, Petal, Ashiok, Wasteland Strangler, Spell Queller, and JTMS (Which he bounced Leovold twice with before conceding game 1)

2-1 Elves (I have no idea how I won this other than racing his board with a Truename game 2 while I hardcast Mindbreak trap on his natural order once he drew enough mana, and then game 3 he mulled to 5 and got Thoughtseized into double TNN)

3-2 Finish in Matches
(Opened a Masterpiece SoFaI)

All in all I think I only had 1 particularly favorable matchup in that deck lineup (The Esper deck) and managed to play tight and get a little lucky versus Elves and Aluren.

So far:
Leovold has felt great when in play
TNN is the god of creature combat
Main feels decent except for the Goyf and Library (Library is always slow vs Combo and Aggro)
Sideboard needs some work, Mindbreak traps feel useless most of the time, Submerge is narrow (though great against BUG decks), and I don't know why we are running 2 Dread of Night when D&T is probably a favorable matchup...

So I've moved Painful Truths to the main for Library. I'm also going to swap in that Thoughtseize like the GP winning list. (Not sure about the Goyf still)
Mindbreak Traps in the side are becoming an Invasive Surgery and a second Surgical. (Surgery is good vs Storm/Show and Tell (And hits Loam/Terminus hard sometimes)
Dread of Night is getting swapped for an Engineered Plague and a Disfigure (Until Push comes along)

Overall I like the power of True Name just clocking people backed up with a DRS or Noble. Leovold has produced plenty of value too, either demanding an answer or delaying their cantrips/Jace until they draw one.

[ironclad8690]

I think the MBT, Submerge, and Dread of Night were all meta calls specifically for Louisville. You could easily replace them, but know that D&T is actually somewhat rough when they have active mom. Also Thalia can be a pain for the creature light draws.

[Traveler]

I think the MBT, Submerge, and Dread of Night were all meta calls specifically for Louisville. You could easily replace them, but know that D&T is actually somewhat rough when they have active mom. Also Thalia can be a pain for the creature light draws.

I understand that. MBT definitely isn't that great on MTGO.

And D&T sees way less play online than in paper (Which is fun for those of us that have ports)

I do like Submerge even if sometimes I wish it were better against more things. Its definitely pretty good against BUG, Lands/Depths lists, and the other green decks.

[Manipulato]

Hey guys,

this is my current list which I would like to talk about.

14 Creatures
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Noble Hierarch
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest

26 Spells
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Thoughtseize

4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
1 Sylvan Library

4 Abrupt Decay
1 Murderous Cut
1 Umezawas Jitte

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

20 Lands
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Island
1 Forest
3 Wasteland

Sideboard:
3 Spell Pierce
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Make Obsolete
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Pithing Needle
1 Umezawas Jitte
1 Maelstrom Pulse

I have cut the 21st land from the deck because I think 20 lands + 8 manadorks + 2 Basics are really enough to make the deck work, I added the 4th AD for the land. I also took away the single Goyf and replaced him with the 3rd TS just to make Combo MU´s like Reanimator & Show and Tell MU´s better, it´s also useful vs Elves or DnT for example. But I´m not 100% sold on it...

I think Reids SB from the GP is super meta focused and a straight meta call, nothing else. I really hate Submerge and replace them with 2 Edict which is also good vs Marit Large Tokens and also has the upside of being good vs Eldrazi and oposing TNN decks.
The 2 DoN are also really focused on beating the shit out of DnT but I like to have a removal against something like Elves too, so I replaced the 2 DoN with 2 Make Obsolete which are totally supportable with 8 dorks in my opinion. They are also great vs TNN decks & Elves which is way more flexible.

I also really like to have a creature in the SB which can replace the TNN´s in MU´s where they bad, Vendilion Clique does the Job perfectly and has great synergy with the 2 Leovold (Cant draw the card off Clique), the faerie is also really good vs Miracles and solid vs Eldrazi.

Another thing I missed a bit is the fact that he has nothing to get rid of a Batterskull or Jace, so I added the 1off Pulse in the SB which has to be tested but I think it´s really solid and also super flexible.

I personally prefer Pierce over Flusterstorm most of the time just because it´s more versatile and flexible (Jace tms, Blood Moon, Liliana and so on...) but I can see playing Flusterstorm here as well.

One thing I really thought about is -1 TS - 1 Hierarch and adding +2 Baleful Strix...The upside would be:
- Up the blue count from 22 to 24
- Up the creature count from 14 to 15 which is better along with Jitte
- Increase the "removal" suite by 2 (Important vs Delver & Eldrazi)
- adding a bit more of a "cantrip" kind of card to the deck
- lowering the possibility of flooding out with bad manadorks in the late game

I think that really fast delver opening with double Delver or Goyf can be problematic for the deck especially with the lack of cc1 removal. The only thing which bothers me with that change is the fact that you give up a small percentage to have a T1 manadork which is one of the biggest points to play this version.

What do you guys think?

[theMonster]

Hey guys,

this is my current list which I would like to talk about.

14 Creatures
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Noble Hierarch
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest

26 Spells
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
3 Thoughtseize

4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
1 Sylvan Library

4 Abrupt Decay
1 Murderous Cut
1 Umezawas Jitte

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

20 Lands
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
1 Island
1 Forest
3 Wasteland

Sideboard:
3 Spell Pierce
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Make Obsolete
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Pithing Needle
1 Umezawas Jitte
1 Maelstrom Pulse

I have cut the 21st land from the deck because I think 20 lands + 8 manadorks + 2 Basics are really enough to make the deck work, I added the 4th AD for the land. I also took away the single Goyf and replaced him with the 3rd TS just to make Combo MU´s like Reanimator & Show and Tell MU´s better, it´s also useful vs Elves or DnT for example. But I´m not 100% sold on it...

I think Reids SB from the GP is super meta focused and a straight meta call, nothing else. I really hate Submerge and replace them with 2 Edict which is also good vs Marit Large Tokens and also has the upside of being good vs Eldrazi and oposing TNN decks.
The 2 DoN are also really focused on beating the shit out of DnT but I like to have a removal against something like Elves too, so I replaced the 2 DoN with 2 Make Obsolete which are totally supportable with 8 dorks in my opinion. They are also great vs TNN decks & Elves which is way more flexible.

I also really like to have a creature in the SB which can replace the TNN´s in MU´s where they bad, Vendilion Clique does the Job perfectly and has great synergy with the 2 Leovold (Cant draw the card off Clique), the faerie is also really good vs Miracles and solid vs Eldrazi.

Another thing I missed a bit is the fact that he has nothing to get rid of a Batterskull or Jace, so I added the 1off Pulse in the SB which has to be tested but I think it´s really solid and also super flexible.

I personally prefer Pierce over Flusterstorm most of the time just because it´s more versatile and flexible (Jace tms, Blood Moon, Liliana and so on...) but I can see playing Flusterstorm here as well.

One thing I really thought about is -1 TS - 1 Hierarch and adding +2 Baleful Strix...The upside would be:
- Up the blue count from 22 to 24
- Up the creature count from 14 to 15 which is better along with Jitte
- Increase the "removal" suite by 2 (Important vs Delver & Eldrazi)
- adding a bit more of a "cantrip" kind of card to the deck
- lowering the possibility of flooding out with bad manadorks in the late game

I think that really fast delver opening with double Delver or Goyf can be problematic for the deck especially with the lack of cc1 removal. The only thing which bothers me with that change is the fact that you give up a small percentage to have a T1 manadork which is one of the biggest points to play this version.

What do you guys think?

I like your list, Manipulato. Definitely agree with the Clique plan. Maybe I'd play one Fatal Push over the fourth Decay in the maindeck, but that's personal preference and a meta call. And I might play Krosan Grip over Pulse because I suspect there will be fewer planeswalkers running around with the uptick in TNNs in the meta, but that's just a hunch and unsubstantiated. Also, has Jace been so good for you guys as to warrant three copies? I've been testing two in my Hierarch build and playing a Snapcaster over the third Jace.

Regarding Strix, I've been testing a non-Hierarch version, which I've written about in the BUG midrange thread, and have found Strix to be very useful in matchups that I didn't expect like BR Reanimator. I've had several games where I've stuck a Strix to block their Chancellor or something, and the game ended. They've even Unmasked it from my hand several times, which tells me that they see it as a threat. And Strix indeed makes Delver much more manageable. The card advantage adds up, too.

Curious to see how your list performs!

[anwei]

Also, has Jace been so good for you guys as to warrant three copies? I've been testing two in my Hierarch build and playing a Snapcaster over the third Jace.

I think Reid often plays 1-2 more Jace than most people would, and SCM/Strix both seem pretty good.

[btm10]

I haven't gotten enough reps to be sure yet, but Duke's list feels pretty close to what I want. I'm leaning -1 Hierarch, -1 Jace, +1 Thoughtseize, +1 Ponder/Snapcaster/Fatal Push.

[Mapson]

I haven't gotten enough reps to be sure yet, but Duke's list feels pretty close to what I want. I'm leaning -1 Hierarch, -1 Jace, +1 Thoughtseize, +1 Ponder/Snapcaster/Fatal Push.

why am I not at all surprised by you adding ponder?

[minyafriend]

why am I not at all surprised by you adding ponder?

LOL. Btm is ponders biggest fan on the source. To his credit the card is out of control. :)

[btm10]

why am I not at all surprised by you adding ponder?

Honestly I think Thoughtseize is more predictable.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Playing later this morning in a tiny little event with a stifle version. Wish me luck...

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[Ayiluss]

Well, good luck then.

Hopefully we get report or at least some notes after it.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I went 3-1 in Swiss.

1-0 Miracles Win
1-2 Shardless BUG Loss
2-1 DnT Win
2-0 DnT Win

Lost in Quarterfinals to a different Shardless player, 0-2.

That matchup feels bad. Also my Abrupt Decay and tnn both got surgicaled in game two, in which I also drew 7 lands in a row.

7 decks of the 15 were bug. 1 aluren, 4 shardless and 2 Noble BUG.

It probably depends on the players whether or not the DnT matchup is bad.

Deck needs more action. I like Reid's 4c Stoneforge build, except it's obvious weakness to unfair combo decks.

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[Manipulato]

I went 3-1 in Swiss.

1-0 Miracles Win
1-2 Shardless BUG Loss
2-1 DnT Win
2-0 DnT Win

Lost in Quarterfinals to a different Shardless player, 0-2.

That matchup feels bad. Also my Abrupt Decay and tnn both got surgicaled in game two, in which I also drew 7 lands in a row.

7 decks of the 15 were bug. 1 aluren, 4 shardless and 2 Noble BUG.

It probably depends on the players whether or not the DnT matchup is bad.

Deck needs more action. I like Reid's 4c Stoneforge build, except it's obvious weakness to unfair combo decks.

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Hey,
would you share your list with us? Did you play Stifle? Curious how many high impact cards you played because I think that the Shardless BUG mu is quite even depending on how much hate your oponents bring for TNN.
What do you guys think about Fatal Push in the 75? I'm really not sure if we really need it.

My current list looks like this, probably play this next weekend at my locals.


4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Noble Hierarch
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
2 Baleful Strix

4 Abrupt Decay
1 Murderous Cut
1 Umezawas Jitte

4 Force of Will
3 Daze
2 Thoughtseize

4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder
1 Sylvan Library

3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
1 Forest
1 Island

SIDEBOARD
3 Spell Pierce
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Make Obsolete
2 Diabolic Edict
2 Pithing Needle
1 Thoughtseize
1 Umezawa's Jitte

FoW Count 24

I would like to add 1 Maelstrom Pulse to the SB but I dont have enough space for it :-/

[Secretly.A.Bee]

4 Noble
4 drs
4 TNN
2 leovold
1 scm

4 FoW
3 daze
3 decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Jitte
2 Stifle
4 Brainstorm
2 ponder
1 painful Truths
3 Jace

4 Deltas
4 misty
2 Catacombs
3 sea
2 Trop
1 bayou
1 forest
1 Swamp
3 Wasteland

Sb:
3 Thoughtseize
2 pithing needle
1 sylvan Library
2 surgical
1 vendilion clique
1 Virtue's ruin
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Jitte
1 Diabolic Edict
1 E. Truth

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[theMonster]

I've been testing a Hierarch-less control build to good results - it's in the midrange thread - but I'm gonna start testing this, too:

4 Deathrite Shaman
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Baleful Strix
4 True-Name Nemesis
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Gurmag Angler

1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

1 Sylvan Library

4 Brainstorm
2 Ponder

1 Fatal Push
1 Diabolic Edict
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Umezawa’s Jitte

2 Thoughtseize
3 Daze
4 Force of Will

4 Misty Rainforest
3 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
1 Bayou
1 Island
1 Forest
3 Wasteland

// sideboard //

1 Spell Pierce
1 Invasive Surgery
1 Flusterstorm
1 Duress
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Dread of Night
1 Make Obsolete
1 Diabolic Edict
2 Pithing Needle
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Krosan Grip
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

With two Jitte in the 75, I wanted to up the creature count slightly, going with two Strix and a Gurmag Angler (which doesn't die to the inevitable uptick of -1/-1 effects) over two Jace (though a second copy is in the sideboard). The singleton Snapcaster made me want to play a Fatal Push, too. Not sure about maindeck Edict, but I wanted to have an out against opposing TNNs and other dumb monsters in game 1. Angler might be too ambitious - not sure how reliably I'd be able to cast it - but after thinking about Reid's lone Tarmogoyf, I think having another big dude is correct. Opposing Fatal Pushes make me want to play Goyf less, though; I sleeved up two Push in my non-Hierarch BUG list at FNM on Friday and was blown away by how good it was. 20 lands feel right without three Jaces maindeck, and I have two Strix and Snap-Ponder if I need to find lands. Sideboards are of course player- and meta-dependent. Maybe I should play one more anti-combo card, but the Snapcaster lets me cheat a little in that respect.

Curious how this deck is performing for everyone.