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Thread: [Primer] Nic Fit

  1. #1901
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Leshrac82:

    I tried your build yesterday and it went better than I expected. I was a bit skeptical about some of the choices but it actually worked out quite well.

    - Toxic Deluge is really strong, I'm thinking of maybe going up to 3 MD
    - I never killed with the Emrakul / eldrazi, but the lands was okay. Only problem was coming into play tapped sucks, but having so many lands saved me against D&T.
    - Tracker is a beast, and I can understand the Crufix as a mini 5th, that card is the backbone of this deck
    - 2 Veteran Explorer actually worked out really well.

    It's a joy playing a deck where a resolved jace doesn't do much because your threats are actually better (tracker, primeval). The biggest problem was infect and fast combo.

  2. #1902

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by JackaBo View Post
    List looks sweet! Mine is pretty similar. I definitly think you should go for Wurmmachine instead of Cruel reality. It wins me almost all if my wins. I do not own Splendor yet though.
    How do you feel about only 2 targets for GSZ outside of ramp. I personally can't settle for few actual creatures and evolution -or- more creatures to GSZ for and diabolic intent.
    Cruel Reality is there, at least when I play it, solely so we have a Rector target that deals with JTMS. It does so very well. The problem is that if you cut Cruel Reality, the only things you can reasonably replace it with are Faith's Fetters or Cast Out, which are fine but nowhere near as impactful.

    Faith's Fetters helps the Burn matchup quite a bit, though, which helps. The other option is to run more copies of Collective Brutality. It's always going to be bad though. Dropping the Leap engine for maindeck Chromanticore would help, but it makes the deck clunkier elsewhere.

  3. #1903

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by arj View Post
    Leshrac82:

    I tried your build yesterday and it went better than I expected. I was a bit skeptical about some of the choices but it actually worked out quite well.

    - Toxic Deluge is really strong, I'm thinking of maybe going up to 3 MD
    - I never killed with the Emrakul / eldrazi, but the lands was okay. Only problem was coming into play tapped sucks, but having so many lands saved me against D&T.
    - Tracker is a beast, and I can understand the Crufix as a mini 5th, that card is the backbone of this deck
    - 2 Veteran Explorer actually worked out really well.

    It's a joy playing a deck where a resolved jace doesn't do much because your threats are actually better (tracker, primeval). The biggest problem was infect and fast combo.
    Toxic Deluge is really strong. I have played 3 before, so it's possible that's better - just don't really see anything to cut right now.

    This deck is killing less with Eldrazi than a typical 12-post build, but in some matchups it can make the difference. The most extreme example is probably Miracles, i don't think there is any other deck where i kill so often with Eldrazi because they can just deal with everything else. In general, they are good against everything fair and slow - i usually board them out against most fast combo decks and Delver. (It's always a package of 2 Eldrazi, 1 Eye of Ugin, 2 Cloudposts - because without the Eldrazi you don't need that many lands, and the Cloudposts come into play tapped which makes them a liability in these fast matchups.)

    About fast combo decks: Always depends on the combo deck, i think the matchups are fine longterm - but there is a high variance and you need to mulligan to relevant cards, and sometimes you just die on Turn 1 and can't do anything.
    Storm: Preboard you win the game if you can get Gaddock Teeg into play (at least against most ANT lists, and against everything else it's still very strong), so that's really the main goal. Otherwise: Crop Rotation for Bojuka Bog can blow them out if they go for Past in Flames. Cabal Therapy should help a little and maybe slow them down. Marit Lage is a nice and fast kill, and sometimes it's even faster than them without any disruption.
    Postboard they probably have some answers for Teeg, but we have Ethersworn Canonist too and some more interaction, and we get rid of all our clunky stuff. My sideboard plan against Storm:
    -1 Emrakul, -1 Ulamog, -1 Eye of Ugin, -2 Cloudpost, -1 Primeval Titan, -1 Titania, -1 Courser. +3 Surgical, +2 Brutality, +2 Ethersworn, +1 Pernicious Deed. (Toxic Deluge, Explosives and Pernicious Deed are all interchangeable - i usually want 3 of them postboard to answer Emtpy the Warrens, could be less and could be more.)
    Similar decks like Belcher have a similar boardplan and game plan, the next cards to cut if you bring in more cards are usually some Trackers.
    BR-Reanimator: Preboard it's all about Crop Rotation, usually for Bojuka Bog to blow them out, sometimes for Karakas. Therapy is useful disruption too, Scooze is good to lock up the game, but usually only after you dealt with their first combo attempt with Crop Rotation, most of the time it's too slow otherwise. Postboard i mulligan very aggressively (especially if they keep 7), most of the time into a hand with either Crop Rotation or Surgical, sometimes i settle for some discard spells. My sideboardplan against Reanimator is almost the same as against Storm:
    -1 Emrakul, -1 Ulamog, -1 Eye of Ugin, -2 Cloudpost, -1 Primeval Titan, -1 Titania, -1 Courser, -1 Gaddock Teeg. +3 Surgical, +2 Brutality, +2 Ethersworn, +1 RecSage, +1 Pernicious Deed. (RecSage and the 1 Deed are mostly a hedge against Pithing Needle or Blood Moon, and they can deal with Animate Dead. Against UB-Reanimator, it's possible to have a very different sideboard plan if you know they bring in Show&Tell, but i'm not actually sure it's better to keep the big creatures in the deck even then.)
    Mox Diamond is a key card in these fast combo matchups, to have 2 mana on turn 1 and be this one turn faster can make the difference.

    I still need more data against Infect. In the few games i played so far, i was able to take them off pump spells most of the time with discard and won the race against their creatures or was able to block them (Lingering Souls as a sideboard card overperformed), but i don't think that will always work. It's possible to play 2 Swords to Plowshares in the board, that would help. (Flex slots in the board right now are the 2 Nissas. They have been pretty good against slower fair decks, but it's unclear if they are really necessary.)

  4. #1904
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Thanks for your in depth answer. I didn't play against miracles, that might explain the eldrazi story a bit better. It was D&T, stoneblade/tnn/jace, eldrazi and infect. stoneblade & eldrazi were good matchups, D&T depends a lot on toxic and infect is rather hard especially because they have their lands which is hard to do anything against pre-board. I'll try to make room for Toxic as elves and D&T are stable decks in our local scene.

  5. #1905
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    I played Bug Nic Fit yesterday in Prague MKM series.

    I got the list from user Testacular. You can watch his 5-0 run here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6s...SqGdnhM7SJcl9g
    List: http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=15748&d=296522&f=LE

    I might disagree with some of his choices in the list or some plays he made during this streaming but what a great aproach in deckbuilding and really cool stream experience. Thank you!

    Veteran Tracker BUG:

    3 Veteran Explorer
    3 Deathrite Shaman
    3 Tireless Tracker
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Leovold Emissary of Trest
    1 Thragtusk
    4 Baleful Strix

    2 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Ponder
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Maelstorm Pulse

    4 Brainstrom
    2 Fatal Push
    1 Abrupt Decay
    1 Diabolic Edict

    1 Pernicious Deed
    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

    1 Creeping Tar Pit
    1 Volrath's Stronghold
    2 Island
    2 Swamp
    1 Forest
    1 Underground Sea
    2 Tropical Island
    2 Bayou
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Misty Rainforest

    60 cards

    Sideboard:

    3 Force of Will
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Thoughtseize
    1 Leyline of the Void
    1 Nihil Spellbomb
    1 Diabolic Edict
    1 Golgari Chamr
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Umezawa's Jitte


    I was working on the list with Marco Montani. The meta is now very grindy, very greedy decks everywhere so nic fit seems like an obvious choice as we go bigger than anybody. The problem is cosistency - we all know that. So we tried a nic fit that goes big only a little but does it in every game.

    The backbone of the deck - veteran combo empowered by ponders, storms, stirxes leads a us to tracker+fetch or jace. And its not like that we have nothing to ramp into - stronghold+strix; mana for the clues; doing more things in the same round... Its not Grave Titan or some dragon but good enough against all those greedy 4c (Czech pile) decks. Cool thing is that if we dont want to ramp oponent but we want to flashback therapy, strix is an ideal target for this.

    Some cards seem a little bit random in term of numbers but it works very well – zenith gets one offs, deluge and deed have a similar function, same for targeted removal. Tar Pit helps to fight Jace; Stronghold gives us inevitability. Shamans cant remove Jace or Deed from graveyard so Witness can always get them.

    Force of will is not a good card with all the hymns, Kolaghan's Commands around but against some decks its incredible. I like one off leyline of the Void. It totally fine to play it on T3. But having it in your opener is like another Force AND you can never draw multiples.
    Changes I would make now – add Leovold for Tracker perhaps; Add Maelstorm Puls into the board to fight jace.



    R1: UWR Blade
    G1: I crushed him with Therapy and Jace. When I saw he doesent have white I didnt play Veteran and saced Strix.
    G2: He had Jace – Pulse; Then I Thoughtseized him and saw double blast so I took it. Played Witness and instead of bringing back Pulse I got discard to push mine Jace. But he got his second Jace that was the game.
    G3: Long and grindy. In the last extra round I had Tusk, double shaman and had jitte no creatures and exatcly one life. He conceded because he appriciated I was trying to win. I still owe him a beer.
    1-0

    R2: Czech Pile
    G1: Discarded four cards with two Therapies on T3 and still lost the game. He drew like a god and a few turns later I Deluged his 3 creatures and played jace – his only card was obivously Spell Pierce! (he told me he plays 4 which is 3 to many at least <)
    G2: Tracker into fetch, killed, another Tracker into fetch, killed, Pulse your Jace. Suddednly he had no card and I had 4 plus several Clues. He regretted he didnt conceded earlier.
    G3: Therapy on draw naming Strix after he Pondered – double Strom, double Caster! The game was long and we got into time in which I had Stronghold and Wintess and he had no answer to this – he had jace, caster, K. Command. Probably better for him nothing definitive.
    1-0-1

    R3: Elves
    My very nice oppononent from Sweden fogot he can fetch Arbors with Wooded Foothills…
    I had tiple discard in both games and jitte after board.
    2-0-1

    R4: Czech Pile
    G1+G3: He couldnt counter Tracker and the card it gave me was enough. Him on two nothing play – I just put shaman on the top with Stornghold – he killed it once Thanks to Sylvan but not the second time.
    G2: He locked me out with T3 Leovold after discarding my removal. I had Strix, triple discard…
    3-0-1

    R5: Miracles
    G1+G2: My oponent has everything. There was nothing I could do. When I played two Counterspell instead of two Ponders then it was a very decent matchup but when I only have 4 Therapies its not enough. In th first one he, on the draw, had Spell Snare; in the second he had counterspell T2 for my tracker and hen I casted Therapy on T4 naming Jace he had one off Gideon…
    3-1-1

    R6: ANT
    G1: I thought I will kill him after hitting three cards with Therapy+flashback but turn before death he miraculously had it. If I had another Leovold I would kill him. (Therapied one copy I had)
    G2: Leyline! Tapped out with Leovold he went for it – 20 dmg; I drew ten cards and fowed one copy – he scoped.
    G3: Therapy hit Infernal and double Petal early. I had Flusterstorm, Fow, Extraction for his Infernals…
    4-1-1

    R7: Death and Taxes
    G1: He started with Vial, double Wasteland. Three turns I only had Swamp. I almost wanted to scoop. Then I drew green souce, Veteran, Therapy, Strix. Jace next turn bounced his tapped mother (wanted to go past my strix putting me down to 3), tharapy this away. I evetualy got him into Wintess, Decay, Jace lock on one life. Yay!
    G2: He only had two lands so didnt Therapy+Strix. Pulsed his Vial. Massacre during broad daylight.
    5-1-1

    R8: Grixis Delver
    G1: He started with Probe, Therapy on my Brainstorm. I Therapy him naming Pyromancer. He showed me Bolt, Delver, Delver, Wasteland. Its hard to guess correctly when your oponent doesent play logicaly. I stabilized a one, jace put his nemesis on bottom. Then I had to brainstorm to get zenith for next turn Tusk. He drew bolt.
    G2: Killed three creatures with Deluge including Angler and Nemesis. My shaman- he bolted and his second draw after Deluge he had Angler. Land. Go to 10. Veteran. Chump. Leovold. Chump. Ended up Push and Edict. He Had Pyromancer and Angler. I tried Push – Daze – token I died…
    I was paired down and my oponent with two losses had no chance of making T8. He refused to continue saying its his first tournament and he wants to have fun. Fair enough.
    5-2-1

    R9: Bug Control
    I am paired up against my friend who always plays his own brews – this time with Liliana, Wasteland, Leovold, Hymn, Sylvan Library. A really cool deck.
    His deck doesent have much chance. He won the second because I was screwedn on lands and did nothing for the whole game. Last one I won easily.
    6-2-1

    25th out of 295. Prizes for 24 players. ;-)

    The deck was fantastic. Give it a try!

  6. #1906

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Koplinchen View Post
    The deck was fantastic. Give it a try!
    BUG Fit is indeed fantastic, I did try out a couple of leagues with it and its only weakness is actually the Eldrazi decks Aggor or Turbo with Posts. List below

    4 Veteran Explorer
    1 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Baleful Strix
    2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    1 True-name Nemesis
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Grave Titan

    4 Brainstorm
    2 Ponder
    2 Gitaxian Probe
    3 Force of Will

    4 Cabal Therapy
    2 Abrupt Decay
    1 Fatal Push
    2 Pernicious Deed

    1 Liliana of the Veil
    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    2 Nissa Vital Force

    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Underground Sea
    2 Tropical Island
    2 Bayou
    2 Island
    2 Swamp
    2 Forest
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    1 Creeping Tar Pit

    Sideboard
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Force of Will
    2 Thoughtseize
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Fatal Push
    1 Diabolic Edict
    1 Golgari Charm
    1 Engineered Plague
    1 Garruk Relentless
    1 Krosan Grip
    1 Wurmcoil Engine
    1 Nihil Spellbomb

    I guess I killed some sacred cows like Swagtusk and GSZ. Found that just slamming Planeswalkers with counterspell back up is sufficient to win the game instead of Green fat. The 8 cantrips really help smoothen the draws and made the deck quite consistent despite not having GSZ.

  7. #1907

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Hey guys, former Rhino Fit player here looking to switch over to Sneak fit.

    Does anyone have a good idea for what creatures I should run in Sneak fit for a meta filled with S&T, D&T, and Grixis Delver? I'm also unsure as to how much removal Sneak fit should run and whether the punishing fire combo is worth running anymore.

  8. #1908

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by hamie96 View Post
    Hey guys, former Rhino Fit player here looking to switch over to Sneak fit.

    Does anyone have a good idea for what creatures I should run in Sneak fit for a meta filled with S&T, D&T, and Grixis Delver? I'm also unsure as to how much removal Sneak fit should run and whether the punishing fire combo is worth running anymore.
    Punishing fire isn't generally worth it, although if you see lost of d&t and grixis (and no leovolds) it might still be worth it.

    You definitely want an Emrakul, Woodland Bellower, and Inferno Titan. You can run with just those three, or add one additional creature from Massacre Wurm or Rune-Scarred Demon.

    For removal, I'd probably go with 3 Pernicious Deed / 2 Abrupt Decay / 2 Bolt / 2 Collective Brutality / 1 To The Slaughter. Possibly put a Deluge in somewhere if you can. Should be plenty with the addition of Inferno Titan to clean up boards.

  9. #1909

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Fatal Push maybe. The MD Removal are something i am not sure of.
    Liliana the Last Hope can take out d&t creatures, too. Deluge is still better and more versatile i believe.

  10. #1910

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by hamie96 View Post
    Hey guys, former Rhino Fit player here looking to switch over to Sneak fit.

    Does anyone have a good idea for what creatures I should run in Sneak fit for a meta filled with S&T, D&T, and Grixis Delver? I'm also unsure as to how much removal Sneak fit should run and whether the punishing fire combo is worth running anymore.
    I have been running a SneakFit list lately with PFire. They seem fine in my local meta but maybe not great.

    The list below took me to a 3-1 finish on Wednesday. I'm pretty sure that it is closely derived from something that I saw on here before the TOP ban but I cannot recall who specifically i need to give the credit to. I've been on a bit of a break so you'll have to forgive me if my list is a little antiquated.

    My loss was to BR Reanimator (0-2) in round 1 with an insanely hate heavy hand in game 2 that just seemed to line up perfectly with his heavy discard. Wins were against Sultai Delver, UBg Shadow, and Eldrazi Stompy

    https://www.topdecked.me/decks/ae846...7-5912c74c53ff

  11. #1911
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    These are the two lists I'll be testing:

    Rhinotime

    4 Windswept Heath
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Forest
    2 Plains
    2 Swamp
    2 Bayou
    2 Savannah
    1 Scrubland
    2 Phyrexian Tower
    21

    4 Veteran Explorer
    2 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
    4 Siege Rhino
    1 Tireless Tracker
    14

    3 Pernicious Deed
    3 Abrupt Decay
    3 Path to Exile
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    17

    2 Painful Truths
    3 Sylvan Library
    2 Night's Whisper
    7

    +1/2 Free slots



    4c Special

    4 Veteran Explorer
    2 Deathrite Shaman
    2 Noble Hierarch
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Eternal Witness
    3 Siege Rhino
    1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
    2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    1 Atraxa
    2 Baleful Strix
    19

    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    8

    2 Sylvan Library
    2 Painful Truths
    3 Path to Exile
    2 Abrupt Decay
    3 Pernicious Deed
    12

    2 Forest
    2 Plains
    2 Swamp
    1 Scrubland
    2 Savannah
    2 Bayou
    1 Tropical Island
    2 Phyrexian Tower
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Windswept Heath
    22

    Sideboard

    3 Meddling Mage
    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Pithing Needle
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Zealous Persecution
    2 Gaddock Teeg
    3 Leyline of the Void/Surgical Extraction

    ---------

    My reasoning is that I never got to try the blue splash yet. Leovold is a good card, Atraxa is excellent. The blue splash should be similar to the red splash we used to run, so why not give it a shot? Noble gives more reliable blue mana production to help out a bit, and the exalted can help push Rhinos/Atraxa through. Might want to throw in a Qasali Pridemage, but that'll require testing before tweaking.
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  12. #1912

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Commander spoilers are out. BUG got a neat new toy. I'm always on the lookout for stuff that could make a Trinket Mage build viable. Check out Bloodforged Battle-Axe.


  13. #1913

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    I always thought spoiler season was a bit over the top until I became a nic fit player. Enjoy the new toys brethren.

  14. #1914

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Brael View Post
    Commander spoilers are out. BUG got a neat new toy. I'm always on the lookout for stuff that could make a Trinket Mage build viable. Check out Bloodforged Battle-Axe.

    Well, I guess it's a potential finisher if you have a large pile of evasive creatures like Baleful Strixes. Is there any reasonable artifact-specific payoff beyond Trinket Mage?

  15. #1915
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    In a world where K command is one of the best card of the metagame, I would never like to play any form of equipment in the main deck. Anyone of the swords is better than this one because it gives protection/evasion and more value. The anti-sinergy with deed is another downside of this card (1 cmc).

  16. #1916

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by rubblekill View Post
    In a world where K command is one of the best card of the metagame, I would never like to play any form of equipment in the main deck. Anyone of the swords is better than this one because it gives protection/evasion and more value. The anti-sinergy with deed is another downside of this card (1 cmc).
    At least this equipment creates copies of itself, so Kommand only has a small window to actually trade up in cards against it. It's not like a BUG deck won't already have Kommand targets anyway, since you're definitely playing Strixes.

  17. #1917

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by rubblekill View Post
    In a world where K command is one of the best card of the metagame, I would never like to play any form of equipment in the main deck. Anyone of the swords is better than this one because it gives protection/evasion and more value. The anti-sinergy with deed is another downside of this card (1 cmc).
    Kolaghan's Command isn't that good though because there's a narrow window to use it. If you connect just once (and we have plenty of evasive ways to do that), you get a copy and there's no stopping it. Sure, Kommand can do work if they destroy the axe before you can hit them with a threat but it's just 3 mana to play and equip and BUG has other targets too.

  18. #1918

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Navsi View Post
    Well, I guess it's a potential finisher if you have a large pile of evasive creatures like Baleful Strixes. Is there any reasonable artifact-specific payoff beyond Trinket Mage?
    Grim Flayer pairs well with it. Leovold is good insurance against Kommand, Strix rounds out the evasive 2 drops, there's a huge Trinket Mage package these days (Hangarback, ping guy, this, engineered explosives, etc), then there's all the usual suspects plus maybe something like Yasova Dragonclaw (though that's a lot of 3's).

  19. #1919

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Requires an evasive creature, dies (along with tokens) extremely easily to deed, requires further mana investment (as you have to pay to equip copies), provides no board control, minimal damage return early on...yeah I'm not a fan. If I'm doing anything with Stoneforge Mystic in nic fit then I'm still relying on Batterskull and Jitte, and possibly a Sword. They are actually able to save you from bad boardstates, establish control, or reinforce a win.

    There are much better shells for battleship/boggles type decks. Heck, saw a streamer couple weeks ago with legacy boggles and he was running Riding the Dilu Horse

  20. #1920

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by square_two View Post
    Requires an evasive creature, dies (along with tokens) extremely easily to deed, requires further mana investment (as you have to pay to equip copies), provides no board control, minimal damage return early on...yeah I'm not a fan. If I'm doing anything with Stoneforge Mystic in nic fit then I'm still relying on Batterskull and Jitte, and possibly a Sword. They are actually able to save you from bad boardstates, establish control, or reinforce a win.

    There are much better shells for battleship/boggles type decks. Heck, saw a streamer couple weeks ago with legacy boggles and he was running Riding the Dilu Horse
    You wouldn't use Deed in this type of build. The mana investment is fine, you're playing a ramp deck... the card plays along with the strategy of going wide, much like Tireless Tracker does (you would be using Trinket Mage over Tracker essentially). It's not a card to play with Stoneforge Mystic, but SFM also means you're in white rather than blue.

    The point of Trinket Mage isn't equipment like it is with SFM. The point of Trinket Mage is that it's a broad tutor, it finds a variety of cards. It can get equipment, removal, or threats. You can argue SFM does the same thing more efficiently but the quality of each card is different in that case, and most importantly, Trinket Mage is blue which does a lot to help against combo.

    Anyways, I'm not saying this will be the next big thing, only that Trinket Mage gets a good deal better with this card, and since that's a build I've been trying to make for a while in Nic Fit I figured it worth bringing up, even though BUG is probably the weakest build right now.

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  1. Namtar