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Thread: [Primer] Nic Fit

  1. #3141

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    If Mind Twist and/or Survival were unbanned how would you guys try to incorporate them into a Nic Fit list? Thinking of trying these out at the next weekly free play.

  2. #3142

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    I wouldn't. I would try to beat them instead. Nic Fit isn't explosive enough to Mind Twist, our best T2 opening (which is not at all consistent) generates 3BB. That's a Mind Twist for 4. Storm on the other hand is going to go ritual, ritual, Mind Twist for 6. You're not winning that battle, your best shot degenerates into either naming Mind Twist on the play with Cabal Therapy, or hoping to get a Gaddock Teeg down on T2.

  3. #3143
    The crazy nastyass honey badger

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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    And Elves! still is a deck, too.
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  4. #3144
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Purple Blood View Post
    If Mind Twist and/or Survival were unbanned how would you guys try to incorporate them into a Nic Fit list? Thinking of trying these out at the next weekly free play.
    I will drop Mind twist and go for SotF.

    SotF is so versatile, you can use it in many different shells.

    1. Combo Control
    SotF + Necrotic Ooze (Phyrexian devourer & Triskelion)
    2. Control Toolbox
    With silver bullets qasali pridemage, Flametongue Kavu, Bob, Genesis, etc...
    3. Aggro Control
    Basking Rootwalla + Vengevine + Tarmo. Maybe KotR (Probably this version will be more similar to today's Maverick)
    4. Control with Combo/Lock
    Academy rector + Recurring Nightmare + Yosei & Kokusho
    5. Many more...

    If you have time to experiment I will try to combine number 2 and 4.
    But with the amount of Deathrite shaman in the format. I will not leave my house with something like this in my MB:
    4x Sword to plowshares/Path to exile
    4x Cabal therapy
    4x Some spot removal/Discard (Brutality or a split 2x StP 2x Thoughtseize)

    Back in the days I played a 4 colour control version with Recurring Nightmare. Almost every player played it differently. Some added Living Death, some added blue, for FoW, Brainstorm and Tradewind ryder. Some people only played GW. A friend of mine played 5 colours with 4x City of Brass and 4x Thran Quarry. People tried Superman with Spike feeder and Spike Weaver to simulate Oath of Druids.

    Ah good old days

  5. #3145

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    And Elves! still is a deck, too.
    Elves with Mind Twist is scary.

  6. #3146

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    This is my own current Nyx Fit SB:[cards]
    3 Lost Legacy
    3 Duress
    2 Golgari Charm
    2 Abrupt Decay
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Pithing Needle
    1 Reclamation Sage[cards]

    I might want a Gaddock Teeg in there, though.
    Hmm no love for Leyline of the Void?
    "Everything is better topless"

  7. #3147
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Nope. I don't like it when cards get stuck in my hand if I don't get them in my opening 7. I rather have cards I can actually cast when drawn into.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Nope. I don't like it when cards get stuck in my hand if I don't get them in my opening 7. I rather have cards I can actually cast when drawn into.
    You should try to play some black sources, I heard it works marvel in Nic Fit .

    Seriously, we shouldn't have difficulty to hardcast leyline, if we draw it turn 2 or 3 well, anyway either waiting one more turn is no problem or we are already dead and should have mulliganed (BR reanimator, dredge, oops).
    On the other hand, we get free win of the back of a turn 0 leyline, and also helm of obediance .

    But I don't advocate leyline as the only grave hate. I'm a fan of crop rotation and a bog in the side board makes a lot of work for little space.

    I've fallen out of love with surgical, and leyline is active against a wide array of cards outside of pure grave strategies(delve creatures, deathrite, mongoose, okay this one is not that much relevant now, past in flame and cabal ritual, snapcaster mage... ).

    Currently I play 4 leyline maindeck and a bog sideboard to go with the 2 crop rotations maindeck, but as I play helm as my main win con I'm totally biased.
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    So I played in my main GP Seattle prep tournament yesterday (4K @ Channel Fireball Game Center) with my slightly suboptimal Nyx Fit. Started 3-0 and was feeling the dream until I punted hard in Round 4 (forgot multiple Sandwurm Convergence triggers) and went into a death spiral. It really hammered into me how exhausting it can be to play this deck for more than a couple rounds in a row - all but one of my matches went 40+ minutes and twice was one of the last to finish. Still a good time and good practice for longer tournaments.

    A few random thoughts:

    - After almost a year of playing (off-and-on, admittedly) I'm finally starting to get better with Cabal Therapy. Not just naming, but timing (getting Rector countered/exiled feels bad).

    - My lock pieces are still Overwhelming Splendor, Dovescape, Curse of Death's Hold, and Sandwurm Convergence. While they're all good, I'm starting to wonder if it might be worth going back to Cruel Reality, even out of the sideboard. I had problems with Miracles especially being able to deal with the Wurm tokens long enough to ultimate JTMS.

    - The biggest thing I have to practice is sideboarding - especially what to take out.

    - Even if it's not the most consistent, Leyline of the Void + Helm of Obedience feels good :D
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  10. #3150
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Plm View Post
    You should try to play some black sources, I heard it works marvel in Nic Fit .

    Seriously, we shouldn't have difficulty to hardcast leyline, if we draw it turn 2 or 3 well, anyway either waiting one more turn is no problem or we are already dead and should have mulliganed (BR reanimator, dredge, oops).
    On the other hand, we get free win of the back of a turn 0 leyline, and also helm of obediance .
    Black sources are pretty damn good. Getting to 4 mana before you're dead is the tricky part though. That's why I like to stick to 1-2 mana stuff (or 3 if it's specifically Lost Legacy).

    Quote Originally Posted by ObligatoryReference View Post
    So I played in my main GP Seattle prep tournament yesterday (4K @ Channel Fireball Game Center) with my slightly suboptimal Nyx Fit. Started 3-0 and was feeling the dream until I punted hard in Round 4 (forgot multiple Sandwurm Convergence triggers) and went into a death spiral. It really hammered into me how exhausting it can be to play this deck for more than a couple rounds in a row - all but one of my matches went 40+ minutes and twice was one of the last to finish. Still a good time and good practice for longer tournaments.

    A few random thoughts:

    - After almost a year of playing (off-and-on, admittedly) I'm finally starting to get better with Cabal Therapy. Not just naming, but timing (getting Rector countered/exiled feels bad).

    - My lock pieces are still Overwhelming Splendor, Dovescape, Curse of Death's Hold, and Sandwurm Convergence. While they're all good, I'm starting to wonder if it might be worth going back to Cruel Reality, even out of the sideboard. I had problems with Miracles especially being able to deal with the Wurm tokens long enough to ultimate JTMS.

    - The biggest thing I have to practice is sideboarding - especially what to take out.

    - Even if it's not the most consistent, Leyline of the Void + Helm of Obedience feels good :D
    Convergence doesn't really solve anything Overwhelming Splendor already deals with. I had another outing w/ Nyx Fit this weekend (just sparring with my buddy) and won most of my games on the back of Cruel Reality. Once you grind your opponent out of resources they usually can't overcome it. They draw a card per turn, so they won't have any way to make a clock stick and die in a few turns. Cruel Reality is so much better than it looks.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
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  11. #3151

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    interesting looking GB list made 4th on a MODO legacy challenge:

    https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...nge-2018-03-26

    I'm not sure I can get behind Woodland Bellower but otherwise the list looks sweet. Wurmcoil Engine over Grave Titan is an interesting choice.

  12. #3152
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by NON View Post
    interesting looking GB list made 4th on a MODO legacy challenge:

    https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...nge-2018-03-26

    I'm not sure I can get behind Woodland Bellower but otherwise the list looks sweet. Wurmcoil Engine over Grave Titan is an interesting choice.
    Here is the list mentioned above

    Planeswalker (1)
    1 Nissa, Vital Force

    Creature (16)
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
    2 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Thragtusk
    2 Tireless Tracker
    1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
    4 Veteran Explorer
    1 Woodland Bellower
    1 Wurmcoil Engine

    Sorcery (13)
    4 Cabal Therapy
    1 Diabolic Intent
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    3 Hymn to Tourach
    1 Maelstrom Pulse

    Instant (4)
    3 Abrupt Decay
    1 Diabolic Edict

    Enchantment (4)
    3 Pernicious Deed
    1 Sylvan Library

    Land (22)
    2 Bayou
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Forest
    1 Ghost Quarter
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    4 Swamp
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Windswept Heath
    1 Wooded Foothills
    60 Cards

    Sideboard (14)
    1 Golgari Charm
    1 Kitchen Finks
    4 Leyline of the Void
    1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Sorcerous Spyglass
    3 Thoughtseize
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Vraska, Relic Seeker

    I think the Wurmcoil Engine could be the 6 mana Dinosaur, probably a pet choice and works very well with Meren.
    I am curious how did Vraska work and why no Thrun, to troll people with Counterspells. Maybe the MTGO meta is different than the paper meta

  13. #3153
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Well, Thrun has been obsolete for several years now. It's just too small to be relevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
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  14. #3154
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Hey,

    It's been a while since I posted something in here.

    Anyway, I saw the GB list and thought I could also share mine.

    Given the actual meta, I have good (paper) results with the following list:


    4 Veteran Explorer
    2 Wall of Blossoms
    2 Courser of Kruphix
    2 Tireless Tracker
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Ramunap Excavator
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
    1 Titania, Protector of Argoth

    5 Forest
    3 Swamp
    4 Bayou
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Misty Rainforest
    1 Ghost Quarter
    1 Karakas
    1 Phyrexian Tower

    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    3 Hymn to Tourach
    2 Collective Brutality
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Maelstrom Pulse

    3 Abrupt Decay
    3 Crop Rotation

    1 Nissa, Vital Force

    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    1 Pernicious Deed

    SB: 1 Qasali Slingers
    SB: 2 Golgari Charm
    SB: 2 Duress
    SB: 2 Faerie Macabre
    SB: 3 Lost Legacy
    SB: 2 Diabolic Edict
    SB: 1 Pithing Needle
    SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
    SB: 1 xXx

    Some explanations:

    As usual I tried to stick as low to the ground as possible. I like smooth games with as much early interactions with your oppo as possible:

    1) Wall of Blossoms

    At first, this card looks it comes from an "old past" but in actual games this card is definitely pulling its weight:
    - It replaces itself
    - It acts as a "wall" (usually for a turn)
    - It is food for cabal therapy when you need it (and that happens really often; you don't always have Veteran available or you don't want to give free lands to your opponent); combined with the "draw a card", it tempers the CDA.


    2) Pernicious deed

    With delve cards and drazi monsters occupying such a good chunk of the meta, PD is not at his best. This is unfortunate but one can leave without it. A mere one-of still pulls its weight. With 1 PD, 1 Toxic, 1 Pulse, you have enough tools to compete.


    3) 8 basics/ 3 utility lands / 6 fetchs / 3 crop rotation.

    This deck is hungry for mana. I kept fetchs as low as possible. Crop are here to give you the boost (Tower) you might need or the utility land you want (Karakas for tricks or oppo's monsters / Ghost quarter if you feel like going for an attrition kill). It also tricks with Kruphix / Tracker / Excavator.


    4) 2 Kruphix / 2 Tracker

    This split is mostly to have different CA engine along with some yard recursion (all along your mana curve). Kruphix was prefered to Thragtusk, CMC wise, CA wise and can be life savior in certain case (before you stabilize).


    5) "Only" 3 top-end kills and no 6 CMC.

    Each one of them has its purpose. Obviously only the creatures can be GSZed.

    The spider is amazing when board is "stall" or when you need to stabilize while chumping for a few turns.
    The reach ability is bonker as is its ping ability.

    Titania is pure brute force and shall no longer be presented.

    Eventually, both makes the game turn into a "porn" movie when Karakas is joining the party. Even better, they are usually not impacted by oppo's karakas...


    6) Hymn to Tourach:

    HTT is the main reason to stick with GB.
    This card can obviously win games on its own. Luck has to be involved but this is needed especially when you have tournaments with so many rounds.
    It also provides early enough interactions with combo decks. Such decks have always been the predators of Nic Fitters...

    Well if you have any questions, please feel free.
    The main deck is pretty set in stone, sideboard can be adjusted along your way.

    Regards,

    Ralf
    Last edited by Ralf; 03-29-2018 at 09:57 AM.

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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ralf View Post
    ...

    1) Wall of Blossoms

    At first, this card looks it comes from an "old past" but in actual games this card is definitely pulling its weight:
    - It replaces itself
    - It acts as a "wall" (usually for a turn)
    - It is food for cabal therapy when you need it (and that happens really often; you don't always have Veteran available or you don't want to give free lands to your opponent); combined with the "draw a card", it tempers the CDA.


    ...
    Why not Elvish Visionary to pressure your opponent?
    There are not many Trample creature at the moment (Hooting Mandrils), the elf gives you a 20 turns clock and a blocker to trade.

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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
    Why not Elvish Visionary to pressure your opponent?
    There are not many Trample creature at the moment (Hooting Mandrils), the elf gives you a 20 turns clock and a blocker to trade.
    Glad to see you answered your own question
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  17. #3157
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
    Why not Elvish Visionary to pressure your opponent?
    There are not many Trample creature at the moment (Hooting Mandrils), the elf gives you a 20 turns clock and a blocker to trade.
    That is correct.
    I guess one has to assess whether or not your meta is filled with 3/2+ creatures.

    My version might be lower to the grounds, it still is on the controllish side of thing.
    I think being able to block "forever" a mongoose, a thalia, a reshaper, "you name it", is more important than the optionality of clocking your opponent for 20 turns (even with Jitte in the 75).
    If I was playing Stoneforge, then yes, I would be playing Elvish for the "equip a squirrel, save my world".

    But, one can make any change to the list provided to fit his bill. These are only ideas/thoughts/personal experience that I am sharing with you. I'm definitely not saying this is perfect.

  18. #3158

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    I think I've got BUG worked out of my system now. I've been having good results with it in paper, but the people I've convinced to give it a try haven't been doing as well so I'm going to concede defeat on the build I think.

    I would like to give a Jund build a try, taking advantage of some number of Burning Wish and Imperial Recruiters using the "half package" concept I've talked about before.

    But, until I get to working on that I want to post my latest BG version. I'm quite proud of this build, I took the Scryb Ranger from BUG Flash (probably the best card discovery from that build) and incorporated it here. I got the deck down to 60 cards with 23 lands and a very redundant manabase. That's where I generally want to be when everything goes right.


    Land 23
    3 Bayou
    1 Bojuka Bog
    1 Dryad Arbor
    5 Forest
    1 Karakas
    4 Windswept Heath
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    2 Swamp
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Volrath's Stronghold

    Creatures 19
    4 Veteran Explorer
    2 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Scryb Ranger
    4 Dark Confidant
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
    4 Tireless Tracker
    1 Chameleon Colossus
    1 Titania, Protector of Argoth

    Spells 18
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Cabal Therapy
    2 Crop Rotation
    2 Diabolic Edict
    2 Abrupt Decay
    1 Collective Brutality
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Pernicious Deed

    Sideboard 15
    1 Carpet of Flowers
    1 Crop Rotation
    2 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Duress
    1 Golgari Charm
    4 Lost Legacy
    1 Pulse of Murasa
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Toxic Deluge

  19. #3159

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Hey all,

    New to the Nic Fit experience and loving every second of it. Im on a ScapeWish list and am wondering I s there an updated Cabal Therapy list we use now that atop isgone or is it gernally the same?

    Thanks,
    -GB

  20. #3160
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Not much has changed on the CT front
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
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