Thanks!Originally Posted by Arianrhod
RE: Tracker
Tracker started in the sideboard and actually moved maindeck, with Meren going to the board since Tracker and Meren overlap in many ways, but Tracker being Bellowable and breaking open a couple more matchups than Meren gave him the edge. If Bellower was capable of tutoring non-green creatures, Magus of the Moon would 100% be an inclusion either main or side -- but, alas, Bellower only grabs green dudes.
RE: removal
Again, the biggest thing is that I want Sneak to be able to handle planeswalkers effectively, as that's something that I've seen as a glaring hole in Nic Fit as a collective archetype since inception. Big Blue Jace.dec has always given us issues, and I want to fix that. PFire is simply the best at this. Yes, it does tax the manabase a little, and yes, Bolt is better in some situations -- but definitely not all. PFire has won me games that Bolt couldn't touch, and while we dock some points vs Delver, that's traditionally a good enough matchup that I'm willing to sacrifice some of its potency in exchange for buffing other matchups -- especially Miracles, which is the defacto "end boss" of the format. Being favored vs Miracles is powerful juju. Sudden Demise doesn't hit TNN, and at that point I'd sooner play Deluge. Deed's better than either of them here IMO, but I've always been a purist when it comes to Deed. I could easily see a Deluge playing backup to the Deeds if you could find the room, but, that comes down to space. For the board I typically prefer Pyroclasm just because of Elves and Delver, but you could flavor those slots as Deluges or Fatal Pushes if you wanted them to be. I just prefer Pyroclasm personally.
RE: 4 Sneaks
Absolutely 4 in my opinion. Yes, there will be games you will lose from drawing too many redundant Sneaks (as not many things deals with it once it's out). However, they aren't quite dead in multiples (as that protects them from discard or counters), and they're just so. incredibly. important. to draw. Like, the deck is a fine Jund-style grindy Nic Fit deck without Sneak in play. With Sneak in play, it does incredibly dirty things incredibly fast. You just always want to have one, and that pushes it from 3 to 4 in my estimation.
With what 75? I mean, when going w/ Junk Fit and a list that runs Meren of Clan Nel Toth and Qasali Pridemage the game becomes quite well managable. It for sure is one MU I'd be happy to face any day.
Went 3-2 with my updated bug stax list. Won a whopping 0 games using Smokestack
Might of been because I faced Miracles, UB Delver, Painter, Dredge, and Sneak/Show though.
Guess I might just bite the bullet and swap those for walkers. Or simply adjust the Dragon Fit list to have more Trackers.
On the plus side, I'm totally impressed with Intuition. Card is nuts, especially after sideboarding.
Used it to beat Dredge by grabbing 3 Cabal Therapy and sacrificing Vet. Later in game used one of the pitched Therapies to sacrifice another creature to help remove Bridges from their yard. Grabbing Therapies is just value.
Had a game 2 against Painter that went like this:
His turn 1: Grindstone
My turn 1: Fetch, DRS
His turn 2: 2nd Grindstone
My turn 2: Land, Veteran, Cabal Therapy naming Painter (hit), sac Veteran for Therapy naming Ensnaring Bridge (hit), cast Intuition grabbing 3 Surgicals, Surgical his Painter.
Having 3 Surgicals in the side with Intuition is just amazing. Might have to try 3 Flusterstorm or some other combo hate card as well but I'm not sure. Not having to dedicate many sideboard slots to Miracles has some nice advantages.
hi guys, i'm searching another deck to play (i m playing DeT currently) and i fell in love with nyx fit. i tried it on cockatrice and it's really funny to play.
what do you think of this version of nic fit in the current meta?
Nyx is pretty good right now. It's pretty good against Miracles and solid against all the grindy BUG midrange decks, without sacrificing the combo matchups too much. You have a reasonable number of discard and interaction. The main thing the deck loses to is itself to be honest - the sheer number of relatively niche effects in the deck, while usually not a problem, sometimes leaves you with hands containing 3-4 4+ mana cards and you just get rolled. The deck does not mulligan well. It's also moderately vulnerable to mana denial from decks like D&T and Lands - less all-in decks like 4CLoam and Delver decks aren't so bad though.
The nice thing about Nyx is that because of the silver bullet package, you can very easily customize the deck to the metagame you're playing in. If you're seeing a lot of combo decks, maindeck leylines are actually pretty good. If there's lots of Miracles, run a second Starfield. If aggro/tempo decks are everywhere, add Dead Weight, more Nyx Weavers, or Swords to Plowshares.
Deck is hard to play. Definitely more complex than most other Nic Fit builds. You will miss triggers and fuck it up. I do it all the time. It's still super powerful though. I'd say you can definitely still do well, and I'm pretty sure it's rewarding when you do, but do keep it in mind.
yh from the few games that I've done it's not easy to play it but i prefer this kind of deck compared to eldrazi or show and tell ^^. the only doubt was its viability.
my meta has only 1 combo deck (show and tell)... the other are bug delver/control, miracle, eldrazi, elves and other midrange decks so it can do reasonably well :D.
Do you think Vindicate can be an answer to Jace? I've been trying to figure out a good split for removal between Path/Deed/AD/Vindicate/Edict.
___
Also some random questions I've been pondering...
- Curious why Hymn has fallen out of favor. I don't see any of the current builds running that anymore.
- Has anyone tested Liliana Vess as a way to tutor for the right removal piece at the right time or is she just too slow against the decks where we would need such interaction?
- What lines of play are people running with Empath/Bellower? Do you use Bellower to fetch Empath and fetch a third threat (I guess this is the most value) or is it just game-state dependent? I just picked both of these up so I'll be testing it out - maybe with Grave Titan.
- Generally speaking, what do you guys feel is the right spread between removal and threats in a Junk build? Right now I'm thinking of the deck like this: (1) 23 lands; the "core" package of Top/Vet/CT/GSZ (takes up 15 slots); (3) 22 remaining slots split between threats and answers. Right now I'm running a pretty even split skewing planeswalker heavy. I'm thinking of testing a junk superfriends build that eschews creatures almost entirely for a controlling build. I tend to agree with many posters in this thread that tuning Nic Fit toward a mid-range creature setup is not the right way.
Bought Veteran Explorers and Deeds earlier today so I guess I'm coming back to Nic Fit for the fourth time. How have people liked To The Slaughter? Knowing Jace and Marit Lage are two of the decks biggest problems in the format, how have you guys found it to be? It seems insane
I'll take this one.
If I have Sneak Attack out or nearly out, then Empath -> Emrakul and sneak her in. Similarly I will sneak in Bellower, grab Empath -> Emrakul and do the same. Otherwise I will generally Empath for Inferno Titan to help handle the boardstate or just as a large threat. Typically I will reserve Bellower as a later GSZ target, and fetch either Witness or Tracker (or Empath if there is another 6 drop left to cast). This of course comes from Sneak Fit, I'm not really sure what other versions are playing with both Empath and Bellower. Don't think I've seen any others. Leftover Empath on the board is typically used for another Therapy activation.
Vindicate and Pulse are both...fine. The problem is that if they get countered, you're out of gas. Punishing Fire, though.....Punishing Fire requires them to dilute their deck with garbage sideboard cards or accept the fact that their planeswalkers will never be safe. Yes, it chews up our time and resources (tempo) as well, but Big Blue Jace.dec gives us plenty of time to spend usually, so it's fine.
Hymn was basically only ever in straight GB versions, which have seen a slight resurgence recently largely thanks to the efforts of Brael -- talk to him for more details on that. Hymn was never a staple of tricolor Nic Fits -- it's too damaging to the manabase to be worth it as opposed to just flat Thoughtseize (or Canonist etc as other combo options).
Vess is generally too slow. People have tried her, but she just doesn't do enough at that stage of the game. Diabolic Intent is generally the agreed upon "extra tutor" for when you need such a thing.
Square already got to Empath + Bellower, so I'll refer you to his post.
Running more planeswalkers give you extra flex between removal and threat, which is an advantage of planeswalker control builds -- Garruk Relentless, Liliana of the Veil, Last Hope to a degree, Elspeth, Sun's Champion, Karn & Ugin, etc are all both threat and removal. To compensate for their slowness, though, you usually need a faster sweeper than Deed to compliment them (ie 2 Deed 1 Deluge), and a suite of fast spot removal (Fatal Push, Path to Exile, StP, Bolt, etc). Then you need a couple of extra flexible answers (Decays, Vindicate and Pulse, etc) and season to taste. Something like 3 Path 2 Decay 2 Deed 1 Deluge 1 Vindicate 1 Pulse wasn't particularly uncommon prior to the printing of Fatal Push. I'm not sure where you'd go with it now, to be honest.
Hope that helps.
To the Slaughter is ridiculous and I've begun dabbling with it in other decks/formats as well -- I was screwing around with UB Landstill a couple weeks ago and it was insane in that deck. It's great in standard, and I'd probably run it in Faeries and Jund if planeswalkers really existed in modern to any appreciable degree. Solid 2-of in the sideboard here in my opinion, has a lot of uses.
Vidicate is an awesome card and I love running it in an abzan build, but the problem with it against jace is that they get to brainstorm first and if they arent already hellbent actually killing the jace gets a lot harder.
I wouldn't sleeve up a deck without 10 pieces of removal (3path/push 3 deacy 3 deed 1 pulse/vindicate is what I usually play) but I am on the high end of the spectrum of removal from what I have seen. I was also a fan of playing 4 planeswalkers because you can protect them pretty well with 10 removal spells.
For me the card has been insane every time I brought it in. Its gas at killing planeswalkers and marit lage. Against decks like shardless you can usually get a "2 for 1" although the creature is usually not a full card from them(damn agent) but getting additional value out of a card that is killing one of their walkers is still great.
Go for 21/22 lands (depending on your build). You only really need 23 when your list is very top heavy (which it shouldn't be). As for a removal suite, you're looking at 4-6 spotremoval and 3 sweepers.
Even though you're going for planeswalkers I'd include GSZ (and at least 1 DRS). Veteran Explorer is that important.
Thanks for all the replies folks. Really appreciated! Going to tinker around more with those thoughts in mind.
Ditto. Thanks for pointing out stuff like Demise not hitting TNN!
Top 8'd at Mythic today, although I lost my match for top 4. Full report tomorrow.
Played vs a very mean lineup today:
Eli Kassis on BUG Delver in r1 (2-0)
Gary Yeager on Miracles in r2 (2-0)
Paolo Cesari on BUG Delver in r3 (2-1)
Timur Babakol on Dragonstompy in r4 (1-2, really shitty variance g2/g3)
Random on the 4c Breya Tezz deck (2-1, scary matchup to play vs for sure)
ID
Random on RUG Lands (0-2; turn 2 merit lage via 2x crop rot g1, topdeck singleton needle the turn before sneak+emrakul g2)
Good for a pair of foil Pushes and an expedition Sunken Ruins (ub filter) for modern. I'm okay with it for my first away event in months, lol.
Gratz Kevin,
any changes after this event?
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
Hello to everybody: in the last weeks i've tested a Doomsday Fit that has proved to be very nice and quite good, but it has a very bad MU against Burn and i'm finding lots of them in tournaments, so i've put it aside for the moment and i've retaken Nyx Fit.
Now, as said weeks ago my first concern when i touch a Brainstorm-less version of a Nic Fit deck is the manipulation and the whole "die for too many bad topdecks", plus the problem of playing many situational 1x without a consistent way to manage them (yep, beside of C.Brutality, not so efficient in this sense). Plus, i'm a big fan of the blue splash (even the red one could give nice thing, first of all Moon): Leovold is just too powerfull, and Zur's Weirding is too good against Miracle and Combo (and i love this card). Atraxa is another very good option, indeed, and the Juicy possibility of having her + Wave is amazing.
I've read that other people have reached the conclusion of cutting Eidolon of Blossoms: more generally, i think that the power of Starfield and Nyx Fit is that, even if it can exploit mechanics linked to a single-type card (ench) it doesn't need so many of them to be good. That's because to fuel Starfield a single Grove is enough good: that's a very strong thing, imho.
Also, i'm not so convinced by Recruiter, even if i proposed it pages ago: we have a wide range of creatures that he doesn't hit and, beside of Wave, not so many tricks or use for him. I would like to test more Eladamri's Call, if we want to have non-green creatures.
Anyway, even if Brainstorm is obv a fantastic card, probably i will stay low with blue count to Just Leovold, Atraxa and Zur's maindeck, with good options for the SB. But i want to have at least 3 top in this case.
To be clearer, a sketch of list, easily cutable to 60
// 61 Mazzo
// 3 Artifact
3 Sensei's Divining Top
// 14 Creature
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Eternal Witness
3 Academy Rector
1 Doomwake Giant
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
// 12 Enchantment
3 Sterling Grove
1 Oblivion Ring
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Living Plane
1 Starfield of Nyx
1 Zur's Weirding
1 Humility
1 Parallax Wave
// 2 Instant
2 Abrupt Decay
// 21 Land
4 Windswept Heath
3 Bayou
2 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Plains
2 Tropical Island
1 Scrubland
4 Verdant Catacombs
// 1 Planeswalker
1 Nissa, Vital Force
// 8 Sorcery
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Collective Brutality
I'm not sure that adding Leovold, Atraxa, and Zur's is a good enough reason to splash blue. You are running 1 less Rector as well as not including any Phyrexian Towers. Losing a Rector + 3 sac outlets seems pretty significant to me. Adding those 2 GSZ targets isn't exactly adding the ability to interact earlier (which is something I feel the deck struggles with). Losing the Towers is losing some explosive plays which help make up for less early interaction.
Zur's seems like an odd choice, but I'll admit I've never played with it before. Against Miracles, wouldn't you rather simply tutor for Starfield and then start getting a crapton of value with it? Game 1 they can't do anything to stop that, and having Grove means that you can assemble Deed to stop Mentor/Entreat, or grab a Fetters to stop Jace. Against combo, having something like Leyline of Sanctity (also great against Burn like you said you are facing) is something that storm can't deal with very well. Sneak/Show or Reanimator you already have Humility and Parallax Wave available. I'm just not seeing what Zur's really brings to the table that can't already be addressed - especially when the opponent can effect our draws as well.
So I ran this list at my weekly last night to a respectable 3-1
4× verdant
2x windswept
2x flats
1x bayou
1x savannah
1x scrub land
1x phyrexian Tower
1x treetop village
1x dryad arbor
4x forest
3x swamp
15 creatures
2x veteran
3x deathrite
1x ooze
1x rec sage
1x tracker
1x witness
2x rhino
1x meren
1x thrun
1x thragtusk
1x tasigur
18 noncreatures
4x green sun
4x therapy
3x thoughtsieze
3x top
1x diabolic edict
3x abrupt decay
1x nights whisper
3x deed
3 walkers
2x lily of the veil
1x nissa, vital force
15 board
3x surgical
1x duress
2x lost legacy
2x pithing needle
2x lost legacy
1x qasali pridemage
1x toxic deluge
1x krosan grip
1x sylvan library
1x garruk relentless
So I had started tinkering with a straight gb build to have a better mana base and less clunky draws coming from a junk build. This proved to solve all of the early game and mana issues but I had a lot of difficulty actually closing out a game. No matter what I did nothing was as good as a rhino so I sighed profusely and jammed a savannah, a scrubland in and a pair of rhinos and went to the shop. I didn't play any path because I'm keeping the white requirement at the barest of minimums. This can admittedly be a mistake however I currently don't own any fatal pushes. I might main deck a dismember tho.
R1 vs manaless dredge.
Win the die roll. Keep a hand with a therapy a green sun. Played a land and passed since I had no idea what they were on. They pass their turn and pitch phantasmagorian. I wept internally. I put up a brave fight but my deathrite was too late to the party to help.
Game two I lead with deathrite and the game doesn't really go anywhere from there. After an unreasonable amount of turns and life gained he finally picks it up.
Game three is a little closer. I kept a hand with surgical and lost legacy. He forces the lost legacy. The surgical picks off his dread return. I untap on a turn with 4 mana. I green sun for ooze and after thinking about it he let's it resolve. It takes over the game in short order. He told me after he let it go that he didn't realize I had a green mana to activate it immediately and thought he could race it.
2-1
R2 vs Mardu midrange.
His deck looked like a lot of fun. Basically it comprised of death rite, stone forge, dark confidant, lingering souls, Chandra ToD, recruiter of the guard, with an assortment of equipment and R/W removal.
Game one we had a battle of the kaldesh walkers and Chandra stacks up a lot better when he kept piling on blockers and I didn't have enough removal. This game was the longest as we ground each other into top deck mode but he landed a batterskull with a follow up stone forge + SoF&I a few turns later. No answers and he had me for exactly.
Game two and three were kind of blurs. We traded resources a lot and my rhinos put in work. Eventually I managed to beat him down both games.
2-1
R3 vs shardless
This guy I've played a few times before. In what feels like a good match up he manages to have the answer every time. Game 1 I mulled to a reasonable five. He had the turn two hymn.
Game two we traded a lot more resources and it cumulating with him having a deathrite a true name a 4/5 goyf and a shardless on the field with two cards in hand. I had 5 mana and a top with a deed in hand. I spun and found a land, put it on the top of my library on his turn. He, on his turn plays the wasteland he drew for turn and nuked my dryad arbor (I didn't play the deed for fear of decay) leaving me without any real answers. I died the next turn.
0-2
Round 4 vs high tide combo.
I will admit I was slightly annoyed. I had a very "not like this" moment cause I didn't like my odds. Game one I have no real answers for him other than the tick tock of the rhino clock. At one point he goes off but then fizzles. Leaving him with zero cards in hand and a snap caster in play. It doesn't get better for him.
Game 2 I managed to lost legacy high tide out of his deck. Once looking through it realising that he can still chain enough storm together to maybe brain freeze me for something scary so I played in fear for a few turns until an ideas unbound pitched one of his two brain freezes and I snap surgical'd it. At this point he was on the snap caster beatdown plan and I play that game much, much better than he does.
2-0
The take away is that you can never leave home without your rhinos. They do an unbelievable amount for a big dumb creature. I never noticed a scenario in which I would have been better off with a path available to me, but I don't doubt that they exist. I just feel really bad having to run a clunky mana base and I'm so tired of seeing basic plains. My two duals were concessions to the scenarios where I can't just green sun for my pets. I never got to see tasigur. I want to believe though.
I also feel like I want a second tireless tracker as just another way to apply pressure. An early prototype had a glissa the traitor but obviously mediocre card is obviously mediocre. I'm gonna work on the side board and run it back next week.
:)
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