[Primer] Nic Fit

[Ulysse95]

Reread my post

DAMNIT ECHELON !! ;)

But withering wisps won't be good I think, unless you're strict GB. Because you can't use dual on it.

[Navsi]

None of the enrage effects seem good enough to be worth running at the moment to be honest. The best one looks like it's the one that draws cards, but even there, committing two cards (creature + pinger) to get a card draw engine going is similar levels of commitment to something like Tracker + KOTR, or Huntmaster + Recurring Nightmare, both of which seem like similarly game ending card advantage engines on their own while also being way better cards when you don't draw the other half.

[Dalton!]

I believe that the rigjaw raptor has to stand in it's own with the upside that you can shoot hin with Punishing Fire if you want.
T

[Ulysse95]

None of the enrage effects seem good enough to be worth running at the moment to be honest. The best one looks like it's the one that draws cards, but even there, committing two cards (creature + pinger) to get a card draw engine going is similar levels of commitment to something like Tracker + KOTR, or Huntmaster + Recurring Nightmare, both of which seem like similarly game ending card advantage engines on their own while also being way better cards when you don't draw the other half.

You can run them with punishing fire too

Edit: Cross post Dalton ;)

[Navsi]

Thinking of taking this to event on Saturday.

2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
3 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
1 Phyrexian Tower

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Baleful Strix
3 Tireless Tracker
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Fierce Empath

1 Distended Mindbender
1 Grave Titan
1 Emrakul, the Promised End

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Liliana, the Last Hope

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Collective Brutality
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay

---

3 Surgical Extraction
2 To The Slaughter
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Lost Legacy
2 Thoughtseize
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter


Any obvious issues / things I have missed? The sideboard is a bit clunky and the Mindbreak/Jitte/Garruk slots could possibly be changed. They want to be some number of combo hate and some number of grindy matchup cards - though I'm not sure how important the grinding stuff is when I already top out with Emrakul.

[removedfromgame]

So in my never ending quest to create sub optimal not blue midrange nonsense ive got together a GB list that im not wholly upset about. It is similar to SE fit in the approach, but not as low to the ground and a notable lack of bobs.

Test fit:

4 vet
3 drs
2 witness
3 tracker
1 titania

4 gsz
4 therapy
2 push
4 decay
2 brutality
1 edict

2 guile
1 library
3 deed

2 lotv
1 nissa vf

2 bayou
4 forest
3 swamp
1 h canopy
4 verdant
3 heath
1 tower
1 stronghold
1 waste

Board

1 ooze
3 extraction
3 thoughtseize
2 brutality
2 g charm
2 lost legacy
1 to the slaughter
1 deluge

Things of note:

I find that the deck itself feels smooth, yet a little anemic. Notably i have a high density of removal which i need to trim down. Im really into killing a lot of creatures but i have had way too many games where i had the opponent at parity only to topdeck air and then get crushed for stumbling.

I was running 3 guile and 20 land before cutting one for the 21st.

So i think i want to cut the pushes. I feel like with 4 decay plus deed amd brutality i can handle early onslaughts. So that means i want creatures. I toyed around with running two of hymn and im still interested in that but i think i want to replace the brutalities in the board with them if anything. I dont think theyre what i need maindeck but i feel like they have stronger applications vs combo or other problematic decks and i think a 2/2 split in the 75 is alright.

So dudes. I was thinking of bringing the ooze maindeck to assist in the random dredge match ups and to have an on curve guy who fights well, even if it's super vulnerable to every removal spell under the sun.

I want to run carnage tyrant. I genuinely believe that guy is the real thing. It makes me feel better about upping the land count. Another thought i entertained is running a 1 of scrubland in the base so i could jam a QPM because this list is weak to batterskull. Also it means my heaths can find black.

Outside of that i feel like this deck does not have super great match ups (unless we enter the mono slivers bracket) but i never feel like i dont have game against anything in the field. Even if the g1 might be tough.

I feel like gb just lacks "great" theats.

[Navsi]

I find that the deck itself feels smooth, yet a little anemic. Notably i have a high density of removal which i need to trim down. Im really into killing a lot of creatures but i have had way too many games where i had the opponent at parity only to topdeck air and then get crushed for stumbling.

I was running 3 guile and 20 land before cutting one for the 21st.

So i think i want to cut the pushes. I feel like with 4 decay plus deed amd brutality i can handle early onslaughts. So that means i want creatures. I toyed around with running two of hymn and im still interested in that but i think i want to replace the brutalities in the board with them if anything. I dont think theyre what i need maindeck but i feel like they have stronger applications vs combo or other problematic decks and i think a 2/2 split in the 75 is alright.

So dudes. I was thinking of bringing the ooze maindeck to assist in the random dredge match ups and to have an on curve guy who fights well, even if it's super vulnerable to every removal spell under the sun.

I want to run carnage tyrant. I genuinely believe that guy is the real thing. It makes me feel better about upping the land count. Another thought i entertained is running a 1 of scrubland in the base so i could jam a QPM because this list is weak to batterskull. Also it means my heaths can find black.

Outside of that i feel like this deck does not have super great match ups (unless we enter the mono slivers bracket) but i never feel like i dont have game against anything in the field. Even if the g1 might be tough.

I feel like gb just lacks "great" theats.

I think the main problem with GB lists is that it's very easy for us to run a three colour mana base. Like, 2/2/2 duals, 2/2/2 basics, 8-10 fetchlands and 1-3 utility lands is a very solid mana base and I don't think the GB one is really noticeably better. In that situation, adding another colour is basically just straight upside:

White for access to better removal (swords), sideboard hate (teeg, canonist) and finishers (sigarda)
Blue for access to better early stabilization (strix) and midgame threats (leovold)
Red for access to better sideboard hate (moon) and mid-late threats (huntmaster, soon regisaur)

Adding an additional colour also gives some good planeswalker options whichever choice you make.

I don't think the advantages of straight green/black are enough to make up for any of the above.

[Echelon]

So in my never ending quest to create sub optimal not blue midrange nonsense ive got together a GB list that im not wholly upset about. It is similar to SE fit in the approach, but not as low to the ground and a notable lack of bobs.

Test fit:

...List...

Things of note:

I find that the deck itself feels smooth, yet a little anemic. Notably i have a high density of removal which i need to trim down. Im really into killing a lot of creatures but i have had way too many games where i had the opponent at parity only to topdeck air and then get crushed for stumbling.

I was running 3 guile and 20 land before cutting one for the 21st.

So i think i want to cut the pushes. I feel like with 4 decay plus deed amd brutality i can handle early onslaughts. So that means i want creatures. I toyed around with running two of hymn and im still interested in that but i think i want to replace the brutalities in the board with them if anything. I dont think theyre what i need maindeck but i feel like they have stronger applications vs combo or other problematic decks and i think a 2/2 split in the 75 is alright.

So dudes. I was thinking of bringing the ooze maindeck to assist in the random dredge match ups and to have an on curve guy who fights well, even if it's super vulnerable to every removal spell under the sun.

I want to run carnage tyrant. I genuinely believe that guy is the real thing. It makes me feel better about upping the land count. Another thought i entertained is running a 1 of scrubland in the base so i could jam a QPM because this list is weak to batterskull. Also it means my heaths can find black.

Outside of that i feel like this deck does not have super great match ups (unless we enter the mono slivers bracket) but i never feel like i dont have game against anything in the field. Even if the g1 might be tough.

I feel like gb just lacks "great" theats.

Yup, you should have more meat to go with your potatoes. Scavenging Ooze would be a good start, but I'd also take a good, hard look at the 4 mana slot. That's usually pretty much the sweet spot when it comes to the landdrops you make w/ a 21 land manabase. Don't see Ooze as too frail though - yes, it dies to everything, but it can also do a lot of work. Ooze is actually quite underrated.

You could also cut an AD to bring back the 3rd copy of Mirri's Guile - more manipulation means having a better chance to find the bombs you do run.

I like my own builds to be relatively light on removal, but w/ a lot of creatures. It lets you pressure the opponent into submission. Does make your G1 vs. combo a lot worse though.

[TTX]

In a GB build with Titania and Trackers, how could you not be running
Sylvan Safekeeper
The Gitrog Monster
Ramunap Excavator?! I would also run Dryad Arbor and Meren with that.


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[Navsi]

In a GB build with Titania and Trackers, how could you not be running
Sylvan Safekeeper
The Gitrog Monster
Ramunap Excavator?! I would also run Dryad Arbor and Meren with that.


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Safekeeper and Excavator are very solid. Gitrog always feels a bit win-more though - he's pretty underwhelming on his own, and needing support for your 5-drop to do powerful things is a bit awkward.

[fireiced]

Thinking of taking this to event on Saturday.

2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
3 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Polluted Delta
1 Phyrexian Tower

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
3 Baleful Strix
3 Tireless Tracker
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
1 Fierce Empath

1 Distended Mindbender
1 Grave Titan
1 Emrakul, the Promised End

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Liliana, the Last Hope

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Collective Brutality
2 Pernicious Deed
2 Abrupt Decay

---

3 Surgical Extraction
2 To The Slaughter
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Lost Legacy
2 Thoughtseize
2 Mindbreak Trap
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter


Any obvious issues / things I have missed? The sideboard is a bit clunky and the Mindbreak/Jitte/Garruk slots could possibly be changed. They want to be some number of combo hate and some number of grindy matchup cards - though I'm not sure how important the grinding stuff is when I already top out with Emrakul.

I like it but kept wondering if you could squeeze some Ponders or Brainstorms in?
As for SB I always have 1 Reclamation Sage, always handy. MB Cliques are quite hateful towards Combo

[Ulysse95]

What do you think of:



Not zenithable, but seems legit with all our sac effects.
Perhaps in a shell with evolutionary leap?

Or only danger of cool thing..? :D

And I just saw this one:


Demands more mana than goblin bombardement, but you can also sac tracker clues. Could be a thing in ashell with 4 of them as you often have too many clues to use them effectively. There it's a way to sac our vet and co and recycle our clues in remove creatures

[Echelon]

I don't see shit...

[Ulysse95]

I don't see shit...

4/3 human for
:Do act of treason on an opponnent creature as a ritual


enchant for
sac a creat or artifact : deals 1 damage to target creat or player

[Navsi]

I like it but kept wondering if you could squeeze some Ponders or Brainstorms in?
As for SB I always have 1 Reclamation Sage, always handy. MB Cliques are quite hateful towards Combo

Reclamation Sage is a pretty reasonable call, yeah. Might have to jam one in somewhere. I am not too fond of Ponder and Brainstorm - what would you cut for it? I'd rather have actual card advantage from tracker / strix / leovold / deed / etc than filter with cantrips most of the time. I don't think we can cut interaction for cantrips, which means it would be cutting into our threat density which seems suspect. I could see cutting the titan and possibly liliana, but I am not sure cantrips would be the right things to replace them with.

[removedfromgame]

I think the main problem with GB lists is that it's very easy for us to run a three colour mana base. Like, 2/2/2 duals, 2/2/2 basics, 8-10 fetchlands and 1-3 utility lands is a very solid mana base and I don't think the GB one is really noticeably better. In that situation, adding another colour is basically just straight upside:

White for access to better removal (swords), sideboard hate (teeg, canonist) and finishers (sigarda)
Blue for access to better early stabilization (strix) and midgame threats (leovold)
Red for access to better sideboard hate (moon) and mid-late threats (huntmaster, soon regisaur)

Adding an additional colour also gives some good planeswalker options whichever choice you make.

I don't think the advantages of straight green/black are enough to make up for any of the above.

The only reason i feel i would consider an extra colour is for side board slots. The deck is mana intensibe and having to set upother colours can be a hinderence somtimes. Also it leaves me open to wasteland blow outs.

Playing an extra colour doesnt give me access to anything i dont already have, just in some cases slightly better versions. Which is fine. Regisaur alpha makes red seem interesting but thats about it.

Yup, you should have more meat to go with your potatoes. Scavenging Ooze would be a good start, but I'd also take a good, hard look at the 4 mana slot. That's usually pretty much the sweet spot when it comes to the landdrops you make w/ a 21 land manabase. Don't see Ooze as too frail though - yes, it dies to everything, but it can also do a lot of work. Ooze is actually quite underrated.

You could also cut an AD to bring back the 3rd copy of Mirri's Guile - more manipulation means having a better chance to find the bombs you do run.

I like my own builds to be relatively light on removal, but w/ a lot of creatures. It lets you pressure the opponent into submission. Does make your G1 vs. combo a lot worse though.

Im wary of the 3rd guile. I can only run so many do nothing enchantments before it becomes a liability.

The 4 drop slotis my problem. Meren is unimpressive and there really isnt anything else that is great.

[Navsi]

The only reason i feel i would consider an extra colour is for side board slots. The deck is mana intensibe and having to set upother colours can be a hinderence somtimes. Also it leaves me open to wasteland blow outs.

Playing an extra colour doesnt give me access to anything i dont already have, just in some cases slightly better versions. Which is fine. Regisaur alpha makes red seem interesting but thats about it.

I honestly think that Swords to Plowshares and Baleful Strix are probably the biggest reasons to not be straight green-black in a fair build. Wasteland blowouts happen occasionally but we do play Veteran Explorer and a lot of the time we can get around it.

[Ulysse95]

The new wasteland seems to like both nic fit and tracker ^^

[Echelon]

New Wasteland..?

[Ulysse95]

New Wasteland..?

Field of Ruin
Land
T: Add to your mana pool.
, T, -Sacrifice Field of Ruin: Destroy target nonbasic land an opponent controls. Each player may search his or her library for a basic land card, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle his or her library.