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Thread: [Primer] Nic Fit

  1. #2241

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Thing is, how many 6 drops can we afford to run? Is she better than having access to carnage tyrant? Would we run both?

    I feel like she can be interesting and i would consider her as a sb card for grindy, fair match ups.

  2. #2242
    The crazy nastyass honey badger

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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by removedfromgame View Post
    Thing is, how many 6 drops can we afford to run? Is she better than having access to carnage tyrant? Would we run both?
    This.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  3. #2243

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by removedfromgame View Post
    Thing is, how many 6 drops can we afford to run? Is she better than having access to carnage tyrant? Would we run both?

    I feel like she can be interesting and i would consider her as a sb card for grindy, fair match ups.
    They would be run in different decks. Vraska is going to be better in something that's creature light, that likely isn't planning to use GSZ. Carnage Tyrant is a more traditional 6 drop.

  4. #2244

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Hi!

    I just went top 8 of a 72 players Eternal WE trial near Paris with a Nyx Fit Rotation deck.

    My list:

    1 [R] Bayou
    1 [] Bojuka Bog
    1 [FUT] Dryad Arbor
    1 [LG] Karakas
    1 [US] Phyrexian Tower
    1 [R] Savannah
    1 [R] Scrubland
    1 [CS] Snow-Covered Plains
    1 [TE] Wasteland
    2 [UNH] Swamp
    4 [UNH] Forest
    4 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
    4 [] Windswept Heath
    1 [] Eternal Witness
    1 [] Ramunap Excavator
    4 [UD] Academy Rector
    4 [] Veteran Explorer
    1 [ISD] Curse of Death's Hold
    1 [DIS] Dovescape
    1 [] Overwhelming Splendor
    1 [] Starfield of Nyx
    2 [TE] Mirri's Guile
    2 [] Pernicious Deed
    3 [] Evolutionary Leap
    2 [RTR] Abrupt Decay
    2 [UL] Crop Rotation
    2 [] Collective Brutality
    3 [MBS] Green Sun's Zenith
    3 [DKA] Lingering Souls
    4 [JU] Cabal Therapy
    SB: 1 [] Reclamation Sage
    SB: 1 [IN] Sterling Grove
    SB: 1 [8E] Choke
    SB: 1 [] Golgari Charm
    SB: 2 [US] Carpet of Flowers
    SB: 1 [] Containment Priest
    SB: 3 [M11] Leyline of Sanctity
    SB: 2 [] Lost Legacy
    SB: 3 [NPH] Surgical Extraction

    7 rounds I did 5-1-0 + ID

    Round 1 against Sneak Show 2/1

    Round 2 against a home brew: Morph Deck which was nice by the way 1/1/1 miscount on an attack phase (forgot to count Deat's hold) and scooze just before realising it... I would have won this one and the next one if not for the time's up...

    Round 3 against grixis delver 2/0

    Round 4 against Burn 2/0

    Round 5 against D&T 2/0

    Round 6 against SneakShow 2/0

    Round 7 ID

    TOP 8 against grixis delver from Round 3 0/2
    (I didn't get early ramp, he got 3 daze G1 and 3 bolt + delver flip + 2 DRS G2)

    First time running this new shell I built in the night.

    I'll do an other trial tomorrow, same place.

    Ramunap was nice; back of deeds feels good, so strarfield is back too; crop got you mentally stronger (got quick answers to unfair decks, etc..)

    My changes:

    MD:
    - bojuka bog (never used it but never get a match up where usefull but enterring tap was sometimes a problem)
    + cavern of souls

    SB:
    - 2 carpet
    - choke
    +2 spitit of labyrinth
    +Bojuka Bog

  5. #2245

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Brael View Post
    They would be run in different decks. Vraska is going to be better in something that's creature light, that likely isn't planning to use GSZ. Carnage Tyrant is a more traditional 6 drop.
    That's likely the most sensible option. I can see her in maybe a bug walkers shell. I want to see how she plays regardless. I feel like her strength lies in however good those 2/2s are.

  6. #2246
    Aes Sídhe
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Played this at Mythic yesterday:

    4 Veteran Explorer
    1 Qasali Pridemage
    4 Walking Ballista
    1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
    2 Eternal Witness
    1 Palace Jailer
    1 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
    1 Thragtusk
    1 Sun Titan

    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
    1 Toxic Deluge

    2 Fatal Push
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Abrupt Decay

    2 Liliana, the Last Hope

    1 Sylvan Library
    3 Pernicious Deed

    1 Phyrexian Tower
    1 Volrath's Stronghold
    1 Karakas
    3 Forest
    2 Swamp
    2 Plains
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Windswept Heath
    2 Bayou
    1 Savannah
    1 Scrubland

    sb::
    2 Pulse of Murasa
    2 Lingering Souls
    1 Zealous Persecution
    1 Golgari Charm
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Sanctum Prelate
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation

    Missed on top 8 by 2% breakers after losing a win-and-in in round 5 that might've been a draw-and-in, but I suck at math and also was trying to crush a friend in, so, bleh.

    Lost to Grixis Delver -- game one I didn't play around a second copy of Daze when I was on 5 lands because he'd just Brainstorm+shuffled away, so I figured if he had one he'd have gotten rid of it. He revealed at the end of the match that his Brainstorm was 3 lands or else he would've. Game two I boarded poorly and drew poorly and died to a triple Young Pyro draw. Never saw a Deed, Deluge, or Therapy in either game :/

    Win to UB Reanimator -- Game one he made an Iona on turn 2 vs my Forest-Vet start, names green. I play white source + StP. Takes me forever to kill him...he's not drawing reanimation, but he draws a bunch of interaction. Ishkanah and Nissa VWS get the job done eventually. Game two he sets up on turn one, but I have a Therapy this time and blind hit 2x Exhume, which bricks him for like two turns, at which point he sets up Archetype of Endurance. I chump wall it for a while courtesy of Eternal Witnesses, and Palace Jailer has me drawing two cards per turn even if it wasn't able to exile anything. He eventually finds an Animate Dead to try to bring back Elesh Norn, but I Murasa her back to his hand in response to the trigger. Ishkanah eventually kills him with drain activations.

    Win to Aluren -- He's on the fair plan in game one, which suits me just fine. He ends up having to Force of Will me twice -- once on a Walking Ballista that would've broken up his Strix+Harpy value engine -- which allows me to set up Ishkanah to wall up the board. A few turns later, Sun Titan brings back a Deed, and he dies swiftly from there. I've learned from last month, and I board a lot better this time, plus the general tightening of the list helped a bit, I think. Qasali was invaluable in game two....he makes an Aluren and flashes out Leovold, which I response to with Qasali to nuke it. His next Aluren gets Therapied the following turn because I read him as not being too upset about the Qasali, plus he didn't flash out anything else in response to the Qasali, so I had a hunch he had a backup. His third Aluren was met with Eternal Witness into Qasali into Canonist, blow it up. He never saw a Harpy this game, which could've tripped things up a bit for me...but I also was pressuring his life total and his hand a lot, so, who knows.

    Win to TES -- Bryant pointed out that I could've sniped game one as we moved to sideboard, as his Ad Naus's texture was pretty awful - he had exact mana for wish+tendrils, and he needed a Chrome Mox to do it, while I had a Deed sitting in play. Could've popped it in resp to imprint and denied him the win, with him at 2 and me having a Ballista@1 in play. I need to pay more attention to their Ad Nauses and stop checking out beyond how much damage they're taking, I suppose. Anyway, game two consisted of me dropping a Ballista and a Canonist -- Canonist got Echoing Truthed and then he went for it. His Ad Naus wasn't kind to him this time, and he had to stop a bit early because of the threat of the Ballista. He does some shenanigans and ends up being forced to go Goblins because he couldn't get hellbent (he boarded the Tendrils in out of respect for Lost Legacy, which he knows I have a proclivity for playing, as well as to make the deck a bit more bomb-dense vs discard, I presume). Anyway, I sac my Ballista to Tower to make the black I need to Deed his gobbos, and then I finally hit a third land, which lets me play the Kambal in my hand, with him at 2 life...he concedes. Game three I mull to 6, but my six is two lands, surgical, teeg, kambal, canonist. He uses a Petal to get an extra cantrip in on turn one, which I surgical after his draw step -- hit a Petal out of his hand, as well as making his Ad Naus worse. He doesn't have the ability to kill me, which allows me to start deploying the bears. He has 2 removal spells but can't find a third, and the last hatebear standing -- Teeg -- holds down the fort for a win.

    Loss to AggroLoam w/Merit Lage -- The first game he sacks into a free win...he has a Chalice on 1 on the play on a mull to 6, which typically doesn't matter...but my hand's texture was one drop heavy, and I didn't know he was on a Chalice deck when I sat down. He followed up with a pretty fast Merit Lage by way of Knight of the Reliquary, and I die one land short of dropping Ishkanah and walling him for 4 turns at least. Game two I have 3 lands in my opener, and I proceed to never draw another land for 12 turns -- we counted, as he had a low pressure hand and ended up Loaming for just as long to find Merit Lage. Nothing to do about variance that extreme.

    In retrospect I think I could've drawn in safely, but, like I said, I was trying to crush somebody in, and I wanted to be guaranteed -- the math was such that all of the 9s theoretically had the play, but since everyone else DID play, my opponent and I could've drawn safely. Tiebreakers and standings are not my strong suite. I also shouldn't have had nearly as much trouble with Aggroloam as I did, my draws were pretty unfortunate.

    Delirium was basically on the entire day -- it was very, very rare that I ran into situations where I needed to cast a delirious card and didn't have it on, even against Aluren who had Deathrites and was aggressively trying to keep me off of it.

    The best card of the deck remains Ishkanah. She is a MASSIVE, megaton payoff, and I do wonder if we are supposed to be playing a lot more of her even in decks that aren't focused on getting delirium -- over the course of a game, by the time you want Ishkanah, you will probably get land-creature-instant-[sorcery/walker/enchantment] just from playing the game.

    My current opinion on the deck is that it's fine. I won't go higher than that, but that's mostly because of my personal tastes. It's a very, very reactive / slow version, and that's not really where I want to be. I want something more proactive / broken. So, I"m going to keep brewing and trying to find something that's a bit more my speed, while keeping this version around as my current "default" list for any tournaments I go to. I will note that I am likely going to shave 2 Ballistas and maybe a Traverse -- I think 4 is a bit heavy, I was drawing more Ballistae than I really wanted, delirium enabler or not. The Lilianas might get swapped with something like Grapple with the Past to still give me some extra recursion, while also helping with Delirium and also helping lock in land drops. Lilianas were definitely good at their job, but I think are not exactly right.

    I'll close by reiterating that this is a deck that works, which we've overall been in short supply of recently. I still don't entirely understand how Nyx Fit doesn't just clunk up and die to its awkward draws and questionable looking curve, but hey, I'm glad it also seems to be working. We're starting to recover from Top, I think. It's just taking its sweet time for things to line back up.

  7. #2247

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Was GSZ still good for you with so few targets?

  8. #2248
    Aes Sídhe
    Arianrhod's Avatar
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Brael View Post
    Was GSZ still good for you with so few targets?
    Yeah, I never ran into issues with it. I might try to add a little more diversity with updates, since removing 2 Ballistae will open up some creature space, but I had no complaints with what I had. Probably going to go for Scavenging Ooze or Steve for one of them, and maybe a Carnage Tyrant or Siege Rhino for the second. My biggest complaint, really, was the overall "fair" feeling of the deck -- and I tend to link "fair" to "takes forever to win once its stabilize." I definitely value being able to turn the corner quickly as a player -- it's something that is at the center of every deck I've ever played and liked, all the way back to my first legacy deck (Dreadstill), and it's carried through my two most successful Nic Fit builds (Scapewish and Sneak), and my tendencies in modern (Harbinger) and even currently in standard (Scarab God).

    I only cite my personal historic data as an anecdote. I really do think that with some minor changes, the deck is basically fine as-played. Swap out two Ballistae for different creatures to taste, swap out the Liliana Last Hopes for /probably/ Grapple with the Pasts but maybe the sideboard Pulse of Murasas? and then call it a day. It's similar to my issue with Salt Fit, which was on the opposite end of the spectrum -- it was all aggression, but it didn't have the midrange/control gameplan, so it made me feel like a merfolk player, and nobody wants to feel like a merfolk player. My complaining doesn't make the deck less fine.

  9. #2249

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    What was Salt Fit?

  10. #2250
    Aes Sídhe
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalton! View Post
    What was Salt Fit?
    1 Dryad Arbor
    3 Veteran Explorer
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    4 True-Name Nemesis
    2 Leovold, Emmisary of Trest
    2 Eternal Witness
    2 Tireless Tracker
    1 Verdurous Gearhulk

    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Ponder

    4 Brainstorm
    4 Fatal Push

    2 Pernicious Deed

    1 Umezawa's Jitte

    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Misty Rainforest
    3 Forest
    2 Swamp
    2 Island
    2 Bayou
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Underground Sea

    sb::
    4 Force of Will
    2 Thoughtseize
    2 Flusterstorm
    2 Liliana, the Last Hope
    1 Abrupt Decay
    2 Lost Legacy
    2 Surgical Extraction

    So named because I was pissed off at brewing that night and took the attitude of "well fine, fuck everything, let's just jam VHulk-powered TNNs down their throats with the blue cantrip core."

    It could stand to be tuned up a bit, but I did actually throw it together and tested with it a bit, and it does work pretty well. Just, again, not my preferred flavor.

  11. #2251

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Ah ok. Blue is not my colour in legacy.

    I hope we can build Jurassic Fit. That is what i am really looking towards. Regisaur, ripjaw and tyrant are all really solid. An agressive Jund list would be prefared by me. The Reddit nic fit group has an early version posted. Perhaps the balistas can help us with enrage...perhaps help ist not needed here. They must damage the raptor is they are low on life and are agressively pushed

  12. #2252

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Arianrhod View Post
    Yeah, I never ran into issues with it. I might try to add a little more diversity with updates, since removing 2 Ballistae will open up some creature space, but I had no complaints with what I had. Probably going to go for Scavenging Ooze or Steve for one of them, and maybe a Carnage Tyrant or Siege Rhino for the second. My biggest complaint, really, was the overall "fair" feeling of the deck -- and I tend to link "fair" to "takes forever to win once its stabilize." I definitely value being able to turn the corner quickly as a player -- it's something that is at the center of every deck I've ever played and liked, all the way back to my first legacy deck (Dreadstill), and it's carried through my two most successful Nic Fit builds (Scapewish and Sneak), and my tendencies in modern (Harbinger) and even currently in standard (Scarab God).

    I only cite my personal historic data as an anecdote. I really do think that with some minor changes, the deck is basically fine as-played. Swap out two Ballistae for different creatures to taste, swap out the Liliana Last Hopes for /probably/ Grapple with the Pasts but maybe the sideboard Pulse of Murasas? and then call it a day. It's similar to my issue with Salt Fit, which was on the opposite end of the spectrum -- it was all aggression, but it didn't have the midrange/control gameplan, so it made me feel like a merfolk player, and nobody wants to feel like a merfolk player. My complaining doesn't make the deck less fine.
    Did you ever use the Palace Jailer? Thoughts on it?

    Taking forever to win has been an issue. It's the main thing I've been trying to solve, but with as low to the ground as I generally keep my lists, that's a hard thing to do. It's a problem the archetype has in general, we're slower than Miracles. Though since losing SDT my builds have sped up dramatically. In fact, seeing how much SDT slowed us down was behind my rationale for beginning to cut it pre ban.

    If you're looking for Delirium enablers, I've been playing a GB build in Modern and here's what I use in that: 8 fetches, 2 Walking Ballista, 2 Fulminator Mage, 6 instant (removal), 6 sorcery (discard), 2 Garruk Relentless, 1 Engineered Explosives, 1 Nihil Spellbomb, and in the sideboard 2 Ghost Quarter, 2 Collective Brutality, 2 Seal of Primordium, 2 Faerie Macabre. That's to power Grim Flayer+Ishkanah. Not all of that translates directly to Legacy, but I've been having good results with that mix, and it's relatively well positioned against DRS which is nice.

    I will say, Walking Ballista+Glissa the Traitor has been pretty absurd. It's about on par with Jitte and is quickly becoming something I want to try in Legacy. Perhaps in a Ranger of Eos build.

  13. #2253
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    I've been trying Glissa + Ballista too for a while, in different decks, but never manage to put them together yet. Oh well, it seems pretty great. And Engineered Explosives goes well with it too, and Strix..

    Really nice to see both Nyx Fit and Arianrhod's strange Ballista Spider build do well. I went 2-1 with Leshrac's Post Nic Fit build (+1 bye) this week, very tightly winning two games vs UR Delver, partly thanks to not seeing any Price of Progress, losing vs a 4c Welder+Bridge+Planeswalker+Mindslaver deck in tight games where I was looking through 20-ish cards for one of my two Ballistae and once I found it and played him as a 13/13 beast to over the next few turns get rid of the planeswalkers (Daretti, Dack and Nahiri[edit: oh Keranos too, kept 4 counters and shot welder, daretti and put Dack on 1 counter]) the opponent topdecks into Orbs of Warding which is pretty good next to planeswalkers and an Ensnaring Bridge.
    Last edited by pettdan; 09-10-2017 at 05:40 PM.

  14. #2254
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Hi all! I want to try out a GB Nic-fit with focus on lands

    https://deckstats.net/decks/21860/80...saved=1&lng=en

    The foucs here is Titania, Protector of Argoth with Tireless and Ramunap Excavator.

    We will go a head with ramp with Vetran and Caba. So I thought that GB version with wasteland maybe is good. Works well with Titania, Protector of Argoth.

    I can also access to Hymn that can rellt be good in grindy match ups.

    I have be thinking going more Delirium. If I can get more card types, then we can have Ishkanah, Grafwidow.
    Deadguy ale Primer: http://articles.mtgcardmarket.com/br...n-deadguy-ale/ (Jeff did it before me)

  15. #2255

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Nyx Fitters, there are changes to layers when it comes to Humility and all the fellow "loses all abilities" static effects.

    It is part of the Ixalan release so the Iconic Masters release notes did not explain the change quite well
    Source:
    HTML Code:
    https://mobile.twitter.com/EliShffrn/status/907274212724809728?dti=245920358820640&fref=gc
    Apparently it is a buff to Dark Depths and a massive nerf to Vesuva and Cavern of Souls
    HTML Code:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/comments/6zg4ay/magus_of_the_moon_update_in_iconic_masters/

  16. #2256

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    It's mainly a buff against Eldrazi or stompy lists running Ballista. With Overwhelming Splendor out, Endless Ones and Walking Ballistas won't be entering with any counters. Suppose it's better against Painter as well, but if they already have a painter out naming a color, then everything will still be that color after Splendor (it's an earlier layer).

  17. #2257
    The crazy nastyass honey badger

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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    So... On BGx Jurassic Fit... We got the following card:

    Snapping Sailback, 4G

    Flash

    Enrage - Whenever ~ is dealt damage, put a +1/+1 counter on it.

    4/4

    Another fun card to use w/ Pestilence. Or Noxious Field. When stuck onto a basic land it's relatively hard to get rid of (and effectively also costs 1 mana to activate, although you can only use it once each turn). Or if we want to turn our Swamps into Snow Swamps, Withering Wisps. Just spitballing here.

    Edit: When thinking about it, those cards hose Elves!/D&T/unflipped Delvers and shut off Empty the Warrens so it might not even be all that horrible.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  18. #2258

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    So... On BGx Jurassic Fit... We got the following card:

    Snapping Sailback, 4G

    Flash

    Enrage - Whenever ~ is dealt damage, put a +1/+1 counter on it.

    4/4

    Another fun card to use w/ Pestilence. Or Noxious Field. When stuck onto a basic land it's relatively hard to get rid of (and effectively also costs 1 mana to activate, although you can only use it once each turn). Or if we want to turn our Swamps into Snow Swamps, Withering Wisps. Just spitballing here.

    Edit: When thinking about it, those cards hose Elves!/D&T/unflipped Delvers and shut off Empty the Warrens so it might not even be all that horrible.
    Have you think about Noxious fields ? Can be activated only 1 time unless you run voyaging satyr too. But stick the board even after a toic deluge/terminus/verdict

  19. #2259

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ganfar View Post
    Hi all! I want to try out a GB Nic-fit with focus on lands

    https://deckstats.net/decks/21860/80...saved=1&lng=en

    The foucs here is Titania, Protector of Argoth with Tireless and Ramunap Excavator.

    We will go a head with ramp with Vetran and Caba. So I thought that GB version with wasteland maybe is good. Works well with Titania, Protector of Argoth.

    I can also access to Hymn that can rellt be good in grindy match ups.

    I have be thinking going more Delirium. If I can get more card types, then we can have Ishkanah, Grafwidow.
    You're focusing on lands you say... But where are the crop rotation..??
    It's a must on this way!

  20. #2260
    The crazy nastyass honey badger

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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulysse95 View Post
    Have you think about Noxious fields ? Can be activated only 1 time unless you run voyaging satyr too. But stick the board even after a toic deluge/terminus/verdict
    Reread my post
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

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