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Thread: [Primer] Nic Fit

  1. #3361
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    The point I was trying to make was that I don't think 3 Tutor 1 Tutor-Target is good because your Tutors are going to be dead too much of the time
    I don't think it's necessary to play all 4 rectors, but with 3-Rector-1-PW too often you will take all the PW out of your deck when you still have Rectors left
    Gotcha. I feel the same way about 4 SFM and only 2 equips.
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    The point I was trying to make was that I don't think 3 Tutor 1 Tutor-Target is good because your Tutors are going to be dead too much of the time
    I don't think it's necessary to play all 4 rectors, but with 3-Rector-1-PW too often you will take all the PW out of your deck when you still have Rectors left
    Is it really that terrible if it means you have an Ugin out..? I mean, ANT doesn't run less tutors b/c it runs only 1-2 Tendrils

    Also, the Archon has officially made Dromoka obsolete.
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    My first idea was something like 3 rector, 1 ugin in a blue shell with brainstorm to shuffle back unwanted ugin. Not sure what else from blue and white is needed. Clearly ways to make sure deathrite dies. Maybe a cavern to help ensure rector resolves, but therapy can do that too. Preferably you would want something that survives with ugin sweeping, large cmc could be enough, and that interacts with combo since ugin hopefully deals with most other fair stuff. Actually thought-knot would fit that and be castable with colorless from cavern, but that seems both clunky and like a bad mana base..

    Some other hardcastable planeswalkers seems great, as suggested before. Either gideon of the trials, in white, or jace in blue. Vraska the unseen and nissa vital force seem good and easy on the mana base. Ensnaring bridge works perfectly with the planeswalker theme and ugin's sweeping (and covers Ugin's weak spot vs colorless decks like Eldrazi and Steel Stompy). It also complements the anti combo suite of gideon vs storm by interacting well with sneak and show. Maybe maindecked otherwise sideboarded.

    Maybe something like...

    4 Cabal Therapy
    3 Abrupt Decay
    2 Collective Brutality
    2 Pernicious Deed
    2 Ensnaring Bridge?
    2 planeswalkers: Jace, Garruk, Nissa or Vraska (or lily, hard to get BB though, like with Jace)
    1 Ugin the Spirit Dragon

    4 Brainstorm
    3 Green Sun's Zenith

    3 Veteran Explorer
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Gaddock Teeg?
    2 Snapcaster Mage?
    2 Baleful Strix?
    1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    3 Arena Rector
    1 Thragtusk

    1 Phyrexian Tower
    1 Karakas
    2 Island
    2 Forest
    1 Swamp
    1 Plains
    1 Bayou
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Savannah
    4 Misty Rainforest
    3 Polluted Delta
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    Could maybe skip a land or two if skipping jace and strix..

  4. #3364

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Is it really that terrible if it means you have an Ugin out..? I mean, ANT doesn't run less tutors b/c it runs only 1-2 Tendrils

    Also, the Archon has officially made Dromoka obsolete.
    ANT has PIF /Adnaus too and you can actually hardcast the Tendrils

    I agree that if you have Ugin in play you are probably winning but if you have 3 Rector and 1 Ugin then (barring library manipulation) 25% of the time you will draw the 1 Ugin before you draw any rector and then all the rectors become total bricks, doesn't seem ideal to me

  5. #3365
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    And that is, as you said, why you run Guiles and Libraries

    Or do like Elves! does and run 2 Ugin
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
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  6. #3366

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Bramble Sovereign is finding it's way into GB for sure. I believe any color combination could play it, but that's where I'm trying it first. Here's what the list is looking like right now.

    Land 23
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Misty Rainforest
    3 Bayou
    4 Forest
    2 Swamp
    1 Bojuka Bog
    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Karakas
    1 Volrath's Stronghold
    2 Phyrexian Tower

    Creatures 19
    4 Veteran Explorer
    2 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Dark Confidant
    1 Scryb Ranger
    4 Tireless Tracker
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Chameleon Colossus
    1 Bramble Sovereign
    1 Thragtusk

    Spells 18
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    2 Crop Rotation
    2 Abrupt Decay
    2 Diabolic Edict
    1 Collective Brutality
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    1 Pernicious Deed
    1 Toxic Deluge

    Sideboard 15
    1 Carpet of Flowers
    2 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Duress
    1 Mirri's Guile
    1 Golgari Charm
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    3 Lost Legacy
    1 Pulse of Murasa
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 To the Slaughter

  7. #3367

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Hi. I'm thinking about Tireless Trackers in rhino-abzan. Do they work well? Are they more as a 'draw' or beatdown part of deck? Is Titania must in for them and how is courser of Khrupix deal with it? Use any other draw? I used sorin, grim nemezis, sylvan library and painful thruths as a 1ofs in 'draw category'.

    Thanx for help :-)

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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Gruby View Post
    Hi. I'm thinking about Tireless Trackers in rhino-abzan. Do they work well? Are they more as a 'draw' or beatdown part of deck? Is Titania must in for them and how is courser of Khrupix deal with it? Use any other draw? I used sorin, grim nemezis, sylvan library and painful thruths as a 1ofs in 'draw category'.

    Thanx for help :-)
    Tireless Tracker is a fine card in Rhino lists, if they go unanswered you pull ahead very quickly. They're usually a CA tool, as they'll often die very quickly but will usually at least leave you 1-2 Clues.

    Titania kinda ventures in the The-Danger-Of-Cool-Things territory. It can potentially kill your opponent very quickly but is very delicate. An opposing DRS or a Lightning Bolt can easily ruin your day, which is not something you want out of your 5 mana cards. You want those to work 100% of the time. So usually you'll run a Sigarda, Host of Herons.

    Courser of Kruphix I like, but I'm one of few. I think of it as a Tracker you can use against decks that play Lightning Bolts.

    Sorin, Grim Nemesis is cool but probably unnecessary. You can't GSZ for it, which sucks, and in Junk lists you're probably safe topping your curve at 5 anyways.

    Junk Fit, in my opinion, is a deck that should aim to generate a lot of CA/card selection. For comparison, this is what I consider to be the card advantage/selection suite for my particular list:
    2 Tireless Tracker
    1 Courser of Kruphix
    3 Mirri's Guile
    1 Sylvan Library

    I'm omitting Eternal Witness/Meren of Clan Nel Toth as part of that particular list b/c they're highly situational. I also omitted GSZ b/c you'll run 4 of those regardless.

    Consistency is one of the things that allow you to close out the game the way you want to as often as possible, so invest heavily in it.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    I'll be playing in a 1K on 6/16, taking Rhino Fit. I've been doing a lot of testing and I'm getting super comfortable with the deck. Hope to do well and smash face with 8Rhino.dec.
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    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  10. #3370
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    I'll be playing in a 1K on 6/16, taking Rhino Fit. I've been doing a lot of testing and I'm getting super comfortable with the deck. Hope to do well and smash face with 8Rhino.dec.
    Good luck!
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    I'm really seeing how important Deed is to the central game plan. I was trying only 2 copies, but I think 3 must be correct. I know that some folks, especially on Rhinos, use Toxic Deluge because they can recoup some of the life loss and Deluge has an immediate effect on the board. Doran has actually been really decent, giving time against delvers and allowing DRS to smash for 2 (did this in a few games where Rest in Peace was played.) Rhinos hitting for 5 instead of 4 is cutting roughly 1/2 a turn off the clock.

    This deck is a drug; several games where GSZ + Vet + Therapy have made for incredibly explosive turns. When I start the turn with 2 lands and end the turn with 6, decimate the opponent's plan with Therapy, and have a Rhino/GSZ to follow up the next turn it's time to question why I wasn't doing this sooner. Fun and competitive, a really good cocktail.
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    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  12. #3372
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Toxic Deluge in my case has nothing to do with lifeloss or direct impact. It's a concession I make to running 3 Guiles, a Sylvan Library and 3 DRS.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Toxic Deluge in my case has nothing to do with lifeloss or direct impact. It's a concession I make to running 3 Guiles, a Sylvan Library and 3 DRS.
    That makes perfect sense. I forget that sometimes my Libraries/DRS get caught up with Deed.
    Brainstorm Realist

    I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner

  14. #3374

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    That makes perfect sense. I forget that sometimes my Libraries/DRS get caught up with Deed.
    If moon control becomes more common, (it seems so, at least in my local meta) deed gets better.

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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    True. I was yesterday testing vs storm and monored prison similar to Birmingham winning list and the deed was allstar for me... well, a nightmare for my monored opponent

  16. #3376

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    This deck is a drug; several games where GSZ + Vet + Therapy have made for incredibly explosive turns. When I start the turn with 2 lands and end the turn with 6, decimate the opponent's plan with Therapy, and have a Rhino/GSZ to follow up the next turn it's time to question why I wasn't doing this sooner. Fun and competitive, a really good cocktail.
    This is a pretty accurate description. Sitting on the other side of the table I just sit there questioning how to answer to those 2 incoming Rhino's while having my hand stripped away...

    I don't play the deck myself but I've been playing/playtesting a ton against several versions of the deck.

  17. #3377
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Draggo View Post
    This is a pretty accurate description. Sitting on the other side of the table I just sit there questioning how to answer to those 2 incoming Rhino's while having my hand stripped away...

    I don't play the deck myself but I've been playing/playtesting a ton against several versions of the deck.
    Yes you have

    On monored, that should be a fine MU. As long as you fetch a basic Forest you can to some degree even ignore Bloodmoon. Thank you, GSZ!
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
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  18. #3378
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Yes, but I had to mulligan a lot. You really need pretty solid early hand. We played like 7-9 games and maybe only two of them was without T1 chalice on 1 or magus/blood moon.
    This was just my feeling from this testing, didn't met that before.

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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    I'm really seeing how important Deed is to the central game plan. I was trying only 2 copies, but I think 3 must be correct. I know that some folks, especially on Rhinos, use Toxic Deluge because they can recoup some of the life loss and Deluge has an immediate effect on the board. Doran has actually been really decent, giving time against delvers and allowing DRS to smash for 2 (did this in a few games where Rest in Peace was played.) Rhinos hitting for 5 instead of 4 is cutting roughly 1/2 a turn off the clock.

    This deck is a drug; several games where GSZ + Vet + Therapy have made for incredibly explosive turns. When I start the turn with 2 lands and end the turn with 6, decimate the opponent's plan with Therapy, and have a Rhino/GSZ to follow up the next turn it's time to question why I wasn't doing this sooner. Fun and competitive, a really good cocktail.
    Deed is also a time-bomb that your opponent has to play around. You set the Deed and see what happens. There are many times you're wanting to nuke Counterbalances, wait for Blinkmoths to come alive, or do whatever and you need a wait and see plan.

    I'm running 3 Deed and 3 Sylvan Libraries because I have always felt that Guile is great, but you never get to draw cards. Selection/filtering is great, advantage is better. It's why I've also loved Painful Truths.

    Recall that Deed isn't heavily played outside of this deck, so people aren't really expecting it. It's not like it's 2005 and you're running real Rock. Some decks just can't deal with the Deed.

    -Matt

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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post
    Recall that Deed isn't heavily played outside of this deck, so people aren't really expecting it. It's not like it's 2005 and you're running real Rock. Some decks just can't deal with the Deed.

    -Matt
    And b/c of that people forget how to deal w/ Deed properly, which makes it even better
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
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