Last edited by H; 02-19-2021 at 07:20 AM.
I don't think Drainpipe Vermin is quite good enough to be playable, but I totally forgot about Village Rites. If there was ever a deck that could take advantage of Village Rites, it's Nic Fit.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
I did some testing and tendrils & vermin are probably going too deep.
But with the printing of basically another therapy and another cheap creature that’s insane with sac a creature spells it could be a very strong core to build around. In non-rector fit you can often have a vet without a therapy or a therapy without something to sac. 8 of each is more than twice as good as 4 of each.
I mean, I think it is, but even more so if you're running Academy Rector and such. I think I can say "Oh yeah!" to 2-of Village Rites in Rector-Fit, but in regular Fit? I'm...hesitant since I rarely have problems saccing creatures, but sometimes, you don't have enough creatures to sac. This is where token generation may be something to think about...
I'm drafting up Junk Value lists, Jund Punishing Fire Lists, and I'll probably throw a Rector List together too, for the hell of it.
-Matt
The idea is Seagate is an extremely good card to sac that also has built in bomb potential later (with decay or big gszs or with kicker). This makes cabal therapy a consistent strong card even if you don’t have vet explorer. T1+ T2 triple therapy does wonders to improve your terrible combo mu.
It also justifies you running more village rites, which means you have less hand with t1 vet but no therapy.
Yeah, I'm hesitant on playing too many sacrifice outlets but 2x Village Rites is probably good. I really like what Yawgmoth can do to the board as a sacrifice outlet, rather than just attacking opponent's hand. I'm also pretty sure I want to test Cabal Therapist again as well. I'm not sure how it fits in, but it seems decent as another body to sacrifice to Village Rites and another outlet to get more Therapy action. I think there's an argument for Kitchen Finks/Thragtusk with the sacrifice outlets as well.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
damn its been a long time since the source had good discussion (not anyone's fault, just not much to say with such obvious best cards running around for so long!)
i'm working on this because deed seems really good atm. trying a straight list, thinking we have to play white for path since marit lage is everywhere, but i also think klothys is a really good card for what we want to do. decisions!
Is there a way to deal with Marit Lage outside of white? I know Diabolic Edict has been used in the past, but their board needs to be all-clear for Edict to actually nab the 20/20, and coming from a Depths player we play around Edict pretty effectively with Sylvan Safekeer and Dryad Arbor. One solution I have used in the past is Karakas out of the sideboard, enabled by a couple Crop Rotations in the maindeck. I wanted to have access to Phyrexian Tower consistently in the early game. Having a small CR package that includes Bojuka Bog, Karakas, and maybe even Maze of Ith in the sideboard doesn't seem like a terrible idea. Bitterblossom is also a soft answer to Marit Lage by creating chump blockers, but not reliable (sejiri steppe gets around a lot of options, really.)
Honestly, I don't know if its worth the effort to fight this particular matchup. Depths isn't unbeatable, but it's a pretty small margin, even with Path to Exile. If you're inclined to play Pithing Needle in your sideboard, that can slow them down, especially since Pernicious Deed is so bad against the deck you'll be siding it out anyways. I kinda like Depths in this new metagame, too...it seems poised to really wreck an unstable metagame, similar to what I expect Sneak/Show and Storm to do.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
By far the best answer to marit lage in nic fit is assassins trophy imo, since nic fit wants to play 4 of those anyways between not caring about the downside and it’s flexibility.
Indirectly, opposition agent is very strong vs marit lage decks and synergizes with veteran explorer.
Nic fit could also afford to run a few field of ruins to answer problem lands.
Otherwise:
Lilliana’s Triumph
Soul Shatter
Brazen Borrower
Tyrants Scorn
Pithing needle
Dead // Gone
Run Afoul
Submerge
Have all seen play in legacy to answer lage. You have options in all colours, they are just awkward.
Trestle troll for the ultimate jank GSZ option
Celestial Purge and Needle are pretty decent.
Trophy hits lands, but doesn't actually deal with Marit Lage. While I agree it's a fine instant-speed answer to Stage activations, it still doesn't play around Crop Rotation. Yes, Trophy is a super low-cost answer to permanents in Nic Fit but I wouldn't bank on it solving your Depths matchup.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
Pretty spicy donation list on Phil Gallagher's stream last night:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/944645249
Awesome list. I love Phils videos. His Rector Fit video was my favorite....
https://youtu.be/w-C5w8Py_dc
Speaking of Rector Fit, has anyone tried [[Grafted Wargear]] in Rector Fit as a sac outlet that also makes the Rectors Dryad Arbors and Vet Explorers into large and scary threats.
You can fetch or GSZ up a Dryad Arbor or a singleton BOP when you need a cheap easy target to equip it to. And beating down with a 4/3 dryad arbor or a 3/3 bird sounds spicy.
Considering the list posted above, is Nic Fit leaning towards cutting GSZ? I understand what Clackbridge Troll is doing, and once you jam in Opposition Agents and Plague Engineers you really don't have room for a GSZ package. Are threats better to have in multiples rather than singletons and costing 1 more with GSZ?
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
No, GSZ into Dryad Arbor is a fantastic turn 1 play when you can't open with Vet Explorer. GSZ is amazing both early game and late game, it's basically a Llanowar Elf that can instead be played as a giant beater if drawn mid or late game. The only reason the the troll list doesn't play it is because it plays maindeck cards like Kaervek and Night of Souls Betrayl that give ALL creatures -1/-1 along with a bunch of Deeds and Dryad Arbor is very antisynergic to play in a list like that.
Here is the YouTube link for that fantastic troll nic fit video...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8GE0opZsSC0&t=7583s
Are there any Nic Fit builds that pair VetExp and a Zenithable single Noble Hierarch with Neoform, Icefang Coatl, BalefulStrix, Brainstorm, FoW and 2 and 3 drops silver bullets like Plague Engineer, Collector Ouphe and Questing Beast etc?
Phil's newest video seems spicy as hell as I wanted to get Natural Order and Brainstorm working in Nic Fit for quite sometime...
https://youtu.be/kNSFNyk04IU
All that's missing is Veteran Explorer, but the list otherwise looks sweet.
Last edited by Captain Hammer; 03-16-2021 at 09:30 AM.
Brainstorm Realist
I close my eyes and sink within myself, relive the gift of precious memories, in need of a fix called innocence. - Chuck Shuldiner
The recent eternal durdles podcast had me thinking about how to build a good nic fit deck from first principles. The question we should be asking ourselves is not whether nic fit is a viable home for a pet card, but what threats best take advantage of the nic fit engine rather than the more traditional engines (led/dark ritual, monolith plus key, tomb plus ssg).
As pointed out by the podcast, the differences of nic fit are:
1. Actually puts out lands of different names.
2. Aristocrats subtheme
3. Makes 2 mana of any combination of colours.
Sea-gate stormcaller synergizes with all aspects (copying a spell doesn’t make you repay costs, built in mana sink)
Uro synergizes with all 3 aspects too so imo bug fit makes the most sense as a starting point.
Field of the dead loves point 1 so I think that is an auto include.
The eureka moment for me was when Eternal Durdles pointed out that Seagate plus Neoform gets spike feeder plus heliod for infinite life. Spike feeder even enters with an extra counter to go off through plague engineer or 1 piece of removal! Neoform benefits heavily from 2 (sac outlet, wants sac fodder) and 3 (colour intensive, can be cast off mana gotten from vet explorer)
I have done a bit of testing in the practice room and the dedicated NeoFit shell below seems like it has a lot of promise. It also fulfills my goals of playing good cards (brainstorm/uro/fow) without just being “bad bug zenith”
2 Field of the Dead
1 Snow-Covered Forest
1 Forest
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Swamp
2 Snow-Covered Island
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Bayou
1 Trop
1 WGB Triome
3 Vista
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Once upon a time
4 Brainstorm
4 Seagate Stormcaller
1 Snapcaster Mage
3 Strix
4 Neoform
1 Heliod
1 Spikefeeder
3 Uro, Titan of nature’s wrath
1 Eternal Witness
1 Skyclave Apparition
1 Meren of clan Nel north
4 Force of will
Sideboard is untuned and the deck would like some assassins trophies or sylvan libraries if I can find the room.
In addition to the normal nic fit lines and the combo mentioned above, t1 veteran t2 neoform gets you 5 lands with different names in play and uro in your graveyard on t2 (get Forest/island off of vet trigger, get a 3/2 snap with neoform, fb neoform with snapcaster get an uro, uro trigger.
Apparition was because I wanted neoform to be removal sometimes and thus needed the triome to cast it.
I was often getting stuck with neoform and only 3 drops. Hence cut libraries for strix and added a 4 drop. Meren seemed like the best option.
Blue count is quite good. The deck isn’t the best brainstorm deck (low u sources, low fetches) but ouat lets you do a t1 perfect brainstorm.
sideboard is unpolished.
Is the infinite life combo worth having compared to just going BUG and having cleaner mana / fewer bad cards in the deck
If you Stormcaller -> Neoform then you can just get like Leovold + Uro or Leovold + Witness etc and you're pretty far ahead
Spellseeker might be worth considering as well
GSZ > OUAT potentially
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