[Primer] Nic Fit

[Mr. Safety]

It was already explained but I was referring to the meta shifts it would cause. DRS helps to keep down the decks that we traditionally have bad matchups against, while we're also well positioned against the DRS decks. A DRS ban would likely just result in us playing more Sakura Tribe Elders, Birds of Paradise, or Noble Hierarchs but the rest of the meta would shift radically.

Thanks, I am fairly new to the deck and the thread. If it was posted earlier, sorry I missed it. I appreciate you taking the time to spell it out again.

[Nargoron]

I tend to gravitate towards Pithing Needle. I know what cards I want to name anyways, so why tax myself?

Because of Cabal therapy is better with knowledge of opponents hand :)

[Echelon]

Because of Cabal therapy is better with knowledge of opponents hand :)

Not necessarily. In the MUs where you actually want to board in Needle/Spyglass you might not want to wait until T3 to cast your discard and even then when you cast a blind Therapy you name that which you want to see least. Whiffing on that means your opponent doesn't have their best card so you're in a relatively good place.

[Bahra]

Hi

Here's the match ups I played in the challenge:

R1: Grixis Delver 2-1
R2: Mono red Stompy 2-0
R3: Elves 0-2
R4: Ravager stompy 2-0
R5: No show
R6: Mono red stompy 2-0

Top 8:

Quarter finals: BR Reanimator 2-1
Semi finals: Lands 2-1
Finals: Sneak and Show 2-0

Fairly straight forward swiss, even had a bye in round 5 which is pretty unusual. Lots of stompy decks which is one of the main reasons I like this deck now and the reason I'm playing 3 deeds.

The top 8 was tough though. Sideboard is good vs BR reanimator, I was certain I would be paired against it at least once, and I DON'T want to lose to that deck. My mana base is not the best against mana denial decks but I got there in some tough games. Sneak and Show was very easy, I just Cabal Therapy/Thoughtseize him to death and he wasn't able to draw out of it before I was in an unbeatable position.

[Echelon]

Lol yeah the swiss were some very favorable MUs. Awesome job battling through that T8 though, goddamn!

[Mr. Safety]

I'm really looking for a good reason to include Courser at this point, other than he's good with Doran (bad argument, even for me.) He provides a ton of value if naturally drawn but I don't think I'd ever GSZ into him, not when I'm on the aggressive Rhino plan. I almost want a 2nd Witness over Courser at this point. I am toying with a Knight of the Reliquary, so I can put in Karakas and Ghost Quarter, but that just seems way deeper than this deck really wants.

[Brael]

Not necessarily. In the MUs where you actually want to board in Needle/Spyglass you might not want to wait until T3 to cast your discard and even then when you cast a blind Therapy you name that which you want to see least. Whiffing on that means your opponent doesn't have their best card so you're in a relatively good place.

If you can open on a T1 mana card (GSZ, DRS) you can go T2 spyglass, therapy, therapy. Or more likely, since you see what to name off the spyglass, you can avoid using the Therapy flashback until later.

[Echelon]

I'm really looking for a good reason to include Courser at this point, other than he's good with Doran (bad argument, even for me.) He provides a ton of value if naturally drawn but I don't think I'd ever GSZ into him, not when I'm on the aggressive Rhino plan. I almost want a 2nd Witness over Courser at this point. I am toying with a Knight of the Reliquary, so I can put in Karakas and Ghost Quarter, but that just seems way deeper than this deck really wants.

For starters, I'm one of the few that actually plays it. It's usually a pretty unpopular choice. I look at it as a Tracker that still functions when mana is really tight or my opponent plays Lightning Bolts. I seldom GSZ for it, but when I do it's usually b/c I lack the mana to GSZ for Rhino but really do need to power something out.

If you can open on a T1 mana card (GSZ, DRS) you can go T2 spyglass, therapy, therapy. Or more likely, since you see what to name off the spyglass, you can avoid using the Therapy flashback until later.

Still very much depends on what you're facing and what cards your opponent has in hand.

[Kobra_D]

Afternoon Everyone,
I have something spicy for this week and was wondering if anybody had some thoughts on cleaning up the list a little bit. It is based on the primer mentioning a GB storm deck, and here is my first interpretation of it. It naturally looks Dark Depths would work as an alternate plan but I don't have access to that card at the moment.

That being said, here we are.


//Creatures 10
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Eternal Witness
1 Ob nixilis the fallen

//Inst. & Sorc. 23
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Collective Brutality
2 Innocent Blood
1 Daibolic Intent
2 Scapeshift
4 Green Suns Zenith
3 Thoughtseize
1 Masterminds Aquisition
1 Chord of Calling
1 Life from the Loam

//Other 6
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ugin the spirit Dragon
1 Nissa, Vital Force

//Lands 21
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wooded Foothills
3 Bayou
4 Forest
3 Swamp
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Haven of the Spirit Dragon


The alternative top end of Ugin seems a bit forced, but I'm not sure what else to audible into in straight GB.

[Plm]

@ obshift : If you want to assemble the combo kill, you might want to complement your tutors with card filtering (sylvan library, mirri's guile) and card draw (tireless tracker, which turns scapeshift into absurd card draw).

I would also look into some crop rotations as they do a lot (in addition to being a mini scapeshift with ob nixilis or tracker).

Ugin cost so much mana carnage tyrant is an awesome finisher that doesn't get countered.

I look forward hearing about ob shift

[MrIggins]

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Eternal Witness
3 Academy Rector
1 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Vindicate
1 Diabolic Intent

4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay

2 Sylvan Library (or Mirri’s Guile)
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Cruel Reality
1 Overwhelming Splendor

1 Garruk Relentless

2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Phyrexian Tower
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath

sb::
1 Celestial Purge
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Dovescape
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Lost Legacy
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar


Picking up the deck again this weekend for an event, will be playing the following list. Felt very solid and powerful in testing so far and actually felt favored vs elves which is a new experience for me.

Expect a report on Sunday.

[Echelon]

Isn't that the list Ariarnhod put up on the Discord about a week ago?

[MrIggins]

It's sourced from him with some tweaks, I haven't been active on the discord in quite a while, so if this isn't new info I apologize.

[Echelon]

It's sourced from him with some tweaks, I haven't been active on the discord in quite a while, so if this isn't new info I apologize.

No need to apologize, I was just curious. It's a list I'd be willing to sleeve up.

[Kobra_D]

@ obshift : If you want to assemble the combo kill, you might want to complement your tutors with card filtering (sylvan library, mirri's guile) and card draw (tireless tracker, which turns scapeshift into absurd card draw).
I would also look into some crop rotations as they do a lot (in addition to being a mini scapeshift with ob nixilis or tracker).
Ugin cost so much mana carnage tyrant is an awesome finisher that doesn't get countered.
I look forward hearing about ob shift

I didn't post my board but I currently have 3 trackers side, it's a great card and deserves to be main I just didn't make it work out yet. Same for crop rotation, their is a mini lands package in karakas, bog, and maze in the sideboard.

Sure, carnage tyrant is nigh impossible for non czech pile decks to deal with, but, why play 1 good card when I can try to make 3 sub par cards work together. Carnage tyrant is more right that Ugin, I just wasn't able to pick one up.

I had a reason for not running sylvan library (I prefer library over guile typically), but I cannot think of why I would come to that conclusion.

4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Eternal Witness
3 Academy Rector
1 Siege Rhino
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Vindicate
1 Diabolic Intent

4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay

2 Sylvan Library (or Mirri’s Guile)
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Curse of Death's Hold
1 Cruel Reality
1 Overwhelming Splendor

1 Garruk Relentless

2 Bayou
2 Savannah
1 Scrubland
2 Phyrexian Tower
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Plains
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath

sb::
1 Celestial Purge
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Dovescape
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
1 Lost Legacy
2 Toxic Deluge
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Reclamation Sage
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar


Picking up the deck again this weekend for an event, will be playing the following list. Felt very solid and powerful in testing so far and actually felt favored vs elves which is a new experience for me.

Expect a report on Sunday.

Although you have enchantment sweepers, D&T might be harder than it needs to be. I would probably recommending diversifying your sweepers to include one that is a 4 drop. This way your not trying to get to 6 mana against wasteland/port/tax, and you don't get stuck behind sanctum prelate on 3.

[Echelon]

Golgari Charm followed up by spotremoval is also a fine way to deal with Prelate. And less demanding on your mana.

[Ulysse95]

Golgari Charm followed up by spotremoval is also a fine way to deal with Prelate. And less demanding on your mana.

Also Curse of death's hold manage mother/revoker and most of the deck.
Same for overwhelming splendor throught a rector.

[Nargoron]

Also Curse of death's hold manage mother/revoker and most of the deck.
Same for overwhelming splendor throught a rector.

And for non-rector decks there are solutions like Orzhov Pontiff , Plague Spitter or Minister of Pain.

[Mr. Safety]

For starters, I'm one of the few that actually plays it. It's usually a pretty unpopular choice. I look at it as a Tracker that still functions when mana is really tight or my opponent plays Lightning Bolts. I seldom GSZ for it, but when I do it's usually b/c I lack the mana to GSZ for Rhino but really do need to power something out.

I dropped Courser for Liliana, the Last Hope. My three drops are Doran and Witness. Witness is almost always fantastic for value and Doran can stabilize the board really well. Again, I need Trackers, which would be my go-to after Witness. I also think I still need another land (I'm at 21 currently, not counting Arbor.)

What do you suggest for how many sac outlets for Explorer? I am having a hard time getting it to die in some cases. Four therapy isn't enough I don't think. Liliana helps by ticking up and ramping, but I think (if I'm reading the primer correctly) I need to do this earlier than turn 3 to keep up with the format.

I know about Phyrexian Tower, but what Diabolic Intent? Is that still a good choice? Other options?

[Echelon]

Diabolic Intent is a high risk, high reward card. It's always either the most broken or the most useless card you draw. As such I tend to shy away from it (although I love the cards to bits).

As for Explorer triggers in general, you shouldn't rely on them too heavily. It's great when you get them but you should be able to manage if you don't. Most Junk lists just run 4 CT and a Phyrexian Tower as "true" sac outlets. More often than not you'll get your trigger b/c your Explorer blocks something, attacks into something or gets blown up by Deed. This is why it's so important to not have a too top heavy curve - if you don't resolve the Explorer trigger your whole gameplan falls flat on its ass.

My first choice to replace Courser would be another Tracker. It falls in the same CMC slot and has the same role - to generate CA.

Last week I ran an experimental build w/ 4 Dark Confidants and 4 Trackers (based off of Brael's work). It was crazy absurd. Drawing cards is a very, very good thing to be doing .