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Thread: [Primer] Nic Fit

  1. #3901
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Here's Caleb D. playing the deck

    Lots of Yawgmoth action. Card does seem pretty good.

  2. #3902

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    I am not sold on Yawgmoth. But if I was going to play him, I would really want to pair him with Liliana, the last hope

    All three of Liliana's abilities supplement yawgmoth well. You can pair the -2/-1 from Liliana with -1/-1s from Yawgmoths to pick off flipped delvers, Rabblemasters and the like. You can use the -2 to get back Yawmoth or Explorer or other high value targets for Yawgmoth (Rector).

    And Yawgmoth's proliferate ability is not going to be useful often, but it will occasionally let you ramp out Liliana's ultimate which wins you the game (turn 3 Liliana +1 (to blow up your explorer to get 2 swamps or something), turn 4 Yawgmoth +2, turn 5 ultimate).

    Liliana and Yawgmoth make a cute couple.

  3. #3903

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    I am not sold on Yawgmoth. But if I was going to play him, I would really want to pair him with Liliana, the last hope

    All three of Liliana's abilities supplement yawgmoth well. You can pair the -2/-1 from Liliana with -1/-1s from Yawgmoths to pick off flipped delvers, Rabblemasters and the like. You can use the -2 to get back Yawmoth or Explorer or other high value targets for Yawgmoth (Rector).

    And Yawgmoth's proliferate ability is not going to be useful often, but it will occasionally let you ramp out Liliana's ultimate which wins you the game (turn 3 Liliana +1 (to blow up your explorer to get 2 swamps or something), turn 4 Yawgmoth +2, turn 5 ultimate).

    Liliana and Yawgmoth make a cute couple.
    Cute, demonic, same thing :D

  4. #3904

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    Found an old box of cards in my parents attic this weekend, was going through them (btw, what the absolute fuck is going on with Ice Age Snow lands being like $2-$3? Thanks for the $$ I guess) and found an old card that I, and probably everyone else had forgotten about:

    Kjeldoran Dead

    Has anyone tried this as a sac outlet for Explorer yet? Seems like it's worth investigating. But maybe it's bad, I dunno, this isn't really my deck, but I saw that and thought "hey, I should mention this". So, here ya go, mentioned.
    I have always played Kjeldoran Dead as a 1 of in the sideboard (along with a Phyrexian Tower and a Plaguecrafter) in every deck I've ever played that utilized Living Wish (The Game, Rector Fit). It's definitely solid in Rector Fit since it leaves behind a regenerating blocker to help protect the planeswalker that Rector brought out but Plaguecrafter is the better Wish target whenever you have 5 or more mana.. I am going to test swapping it with a Cabal Therapist but Therapist is a full turn slower so I'm uncertain if it's the right move. But Yawgmoth, even if it costs 4 mana, seems like a must play Living Wish target to have as a 1 of in the board since it serves both combo and control functions.

    The Game used to play Fleshbag Marauder since Plaguecrafter (an upgrade) was only printed recently.

    Edit: I really wish the OP was updated. It grinds my gears everytime I open this thread and see "Sensei's Divining Top was just banned this morning (4/24/17)" in big bold letters at the top.

    My Living Wish board will probably be adding...
    +1 Yawgmoth, Thran Physician
    +1 Cabal Therapist
    -1 Kjeldoran Dead
    -1 Something Else

  5. #3905

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    I made a case about the new Nissa for NicFit a while ago, and I think the below article warrants a serious second consideration as to whether or not she is viable. According to the following article it is now the best card in standard. 4x Nissa Bant control won the GP in Taipei at the loss of Esper Control. The article specifically states how Nissa belongs to a ramp deck, which NicFit is for legacy. It validates many of the play patterns I put forward when analyzing the card for NicFit. Without sounding too cocky, arrogant, or "i told you so"-ish, I think people should pay more attention to Nissa.

    https://www.channelfireball.com/arti...675.1560545493

  6. #3906

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    I made a case about the new Nissa for NicFit a while ago, and I think the below article warrants a serious second consideration as to whether or not she is viable. According to the following article it is now the best card in standard. 4x Nissa Bant control won the GP in Taipei at the loss of Esper Control. The article specifically states how Nissa belongs to a ramp deck, which NicFit is for legacy. It validates many of the play patterns I put forward when analyzing the card for NicFit. Without sounding too cocky, arrogant, or "i told you so"-ish, I think people should pay more attention to Nissa.

    https://www.channelfireball.com/arti...675.1560545493
    Every decklist in this CFB article is playing multiple X spells that scale with having access to 5+ mana:
    - Hydroid Krasis
    - Mass Manipulation
    - Finale of Glory

    If you already have 5 mana in your legacy deck to cast NissaWSTW then how are you taking advantage of the mana flare? In a normal build of NicFit GSZ for 10 isn't an upgrade to GSZ for 5 or 6 because you don't have any creature in the deck that costs this much, so are you adding stuff like Terastodon or Prog to your deck to enable it? How often are these winning games that cheaper threats wouldn't? (Thrag, Primeval, etc). How often are you losing games because you brick drawing these uncastable creatures? How often are you losing games because you drew NissaWSTW without a GSZ or a fatty and all you can do is make a 3/3, and couldn't get a Deed/creature from the graveyard like a NissaVF could?

    Essentially the problem is that Nicfit is a midrange deck but you want to play it as a combo/ramp deck.
    There are decks in standard that play familiar NicFit-esque cards (Assassin's Trophy, Liliana General, Vraska, Find//Finality etc) but are these the decks you see playing NissaWSTW? No, because only the ramp deck wants to dedicate all its resources to ramping. It doesn't want to trade any of its resources (with cards like Therapy or Hymn or Deed) because then it won't scale into its payoffs hard enough to overwhelm the opponent.

    You could build a dedicated ramp deck in Legacy but these already exist. If you want to play NissaWSTW then you need to justify why it's better to have 5 forests in play than a bunch of Cloudposts.

    For the record I don't think the NicFit discord is very useful either but "Surely this must be good in Legacy it was one of the most indemand cards on MKM, and CFB says it's the best card in standard" is honestly a way dumber take than any of the discussions that happen there. I'm sure the top 8 of GP Atlanta in September will be full of Aetherworks Marvel / Smuggler's Copter

  7. #3907

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    Every decklist in this CFB article is playing multiple X spells that scale with having access to 5+ mana:
    - Hydroid Krasis
    - Mass Manipulation
    - Finale of Glory

    If you already have 5 mana in your legacy deck to cast NissaWSTW then how are you taking advantage of the mana flare? In a normal build of NicFit GSZ for 10 isn't an upgrade to GSZ for 5 or 6 because you don't have any creature in the deck that costs this much, so are you adding stuff like Terastodon or Prog to your deck to enable it? How often are these winning games that cheaper threats wouldn't? (Thrag, Primeval, etc). How often are you losing games because you brick drawing these uncastable creatures? How often are you losing games because you drew NissaWSTW without a GSZ or a fatty and all you can do is make a 3/3, and couldn't get a Deed/creature from the graveyard like a NissaVF could?

    Essentially the problem is that Nicfit is a midrange deck but you want to play it as a combo/ramp deck.
    There are decks in standard that play familiar NicFit-esque cards (Assassin's Trophy, Liliana General, Vraska, Find//Finality etc) but are these the decks you see playing NissaWSTW? No, because only the ramp deck wants to dedicate all its resources to ramping. It doesn't want to trade any of its resources (with cards like Therapy or Hymn or Deed) because then it won't scale into its payoffs hard enough to overwhelm the opponent.

    You could build a dedicated ramp deck in Legacy but these already exist. If you want to play NissaWSTW then you need to justify why it's better to have 5 forests in play than a bunch of Cloudposts.

    For the record I don't think the NicFit discord is very useful either but "Surely this must be good in Legacy it was one of the most indemand cards on MKM, and CFB says it's the best card in standard" is honestly a way dumber take than any of the discussions that happen there. I'm sure the top 8 of GP Atlanta in September will be full of Aetherworks Marvel / Smuggler's Copter
    There's plenty of stuff in current standard that is widely played in Legacy, Teferi and Narset being the main ones. Apparently, those cards are outmoded by Nissa. I would say stupidity is ignoring developments outside of legacy because of a stubbornly theoretical reasoning why you shouldn't experiment with a new card. You basically assume the card is bad when evidence shows it isn't.

    Yes, X spells make Nissa better. It was already indicated that the new GSZ [Finale of Devastation] which could scale to x=10 with the manaflare, provides a good alternative win condition without polluting the deck with X creatures like hydroid krasis that cannot be grabbed with GSZ.

    You mention "you want to play it as a combo/ramp deck"
    I told you, the deck it is played in is BANT Control, Nissa lends itself to ramp style control decks.
    There's also no shortage of mana sinks for the manaflare ability. Nic Fit is a broad swath of decks designed around cabal therapy and veteran explorer, but if you go for a red build there's Kessig Wolf Run for instance. Those options exist in every color.

  8. #3908

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    There's plenty of stuff in current standard that is widely played in Legacy, Teferi and Narset being the main ones. Apparently, those cards are outmoded by Nissa. I would say stupidity is ignoring developments outside of legacy because of a stubbornly theoretical reasoning why you shouldn't experiment with a new card. You basically assume the card is bad when evidence shows it isn't.

    Yes, X spells make Nissa better. It was already indicated that the new GSZ [Finale of Devastation] which could scale to x=10 with the manaflare, provides a good alternative win condition without polluting the deck with X creatures like hydroid krasis that cannot be grabbed with GSZ.

    You mention "you want to play it as a combo/ramp deck"
    I told you, the deck it is played in is BANT Control, Nissa lends itself to ramp style control decks.
    There's also no shortage of mana sinks for the manaflare ability. Nic Fit is a broad swath of decks designed around cabal therapy and veteran explorer, but if you go for a red build there's Kessig Wolf Run for instance. Those options exist in every color.
    Ok, but then you are polluting the deck with GSZ that are taxed an extra G.

    The Bant decks in the article are in no way control decks, the only way you can consider these control decks is if you think all decks with spells CMC >5 are control decks. (In fact if you ctrl F the page for "control" the only mention from the author is how the deck moved away from being a control deck after it added Nissa).

    You: If a card is highly playable in standard it must have potential in Legacy (if X then Y)
    Me: X does not necessarily imply Y, here are examples where X is not Y
    You: But look at these other examples where X is Y


    You basically assume the card is bad when evidence shows it isn't.
    We don't have any evidence one way or the other. Cards being playable in standard is not evidence they will be successful in legacy. I don't have time to test every single card in legacy that top8s some standard event so in the absence of this evidence I am using my own experience and heuristics to decide that it is likely not a legacy-playable card. I'm not "ignoring" anything, you have brought it to my attention, I have considered and dismissed it. If you think I am wrong then there is nothing stopping you from simply going to get the tournament results that vindicate your opinion at which point I will have to admit I was wrong and you can claim all the glory/prizemoney

  9. #3909

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    There is no reason to argue. The wonderful thing about Nic Fit is that as long as youre playing Cabal Therapy and Vet Explorer, you can build the rest of the deck however you want. Once you get to powerful 5cc spells, there is an incredible pleothora of powerful game breaking ones to choose from. So run what you want.

    Nissa is a very powerful effect but only if you build a deck that properly utilizes its abilities. Nissa effectively generates 12 mana (tap 5 forest for 10 mana, then +1 it to untap a forest to get you to 12 mana).

    If I did play Nissa, I would definitely be playing it alongside a Worldspine Wurm, maybe a Terastadon and 3 Natural Orders. You can GSZ out the Wurm (or Terastodon) for 12 mana if you have Nissa out, or you can NO out the Wurm if you dont have Nissa out.

    I would make almost all the lands in the deck forest duals or fetchlands that can grab forests/dryad arbors (to sac to NO), and I would jam it full of discard and removal to ensure you can survive till you get to 5 mana and to strip any StP out of your opponents hands. I would probably run arbor elf as well since it ramps, synergizes with Nissa and with NO so well.

  10. #3910
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Hammer View Post
    I am not sold on Yawgmoth. But if I was going to play him, I would really want to pair him with Liliana, the last hope

    All three of Liliana's abilities supplement yawgmoth well. You can pair the -2/-1 from Liliana with -1/-1s from Yawgmoths to pick off flipped delvers, Rabblemasters and the like. You can use the -2 to get back Yawmoth or Explorer or other high value targets for Yawgmoth (Rector).

    And Yawgmoth's proliferate ability is not going to be useful often, but it will occasionally let you ramp out Liliana's ultimate which wins you the game (turn 3 Liliana +1 (to blow up your explorer to get 2 swamps or something), turn 4 Yawgmoth +2, turn 5 ultimate).

    Liliana and Yawgmoth make a cute couple.
    Ophiomancer would also be a cute combo with Yawgmoth, considering you get sac fodder every turn.

  11. #3911

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    I think its a mistake that more Nic Fit lists dont lean heavy on black and play maindeck Hymn to Tourach, Dark Ritual and more discard spells. Picking apart your opponents hand is the best way to buy time to resolve and protect our threats in this meta.

    Quote Originally Posted by Barook View Post
    Ophiomancer would also be a cute combo with Yawgmoth, considering you get sac fodder every turn.
    Wow, yeah Oophimancer and Yawgmoth make for a quite synergistic combo. Im tempted to jam a mostly black Nic Fit list with a light splash that plays...
    Contamination
    Bitterblossom
    Ophiomancer
    Yawgmoth, Thran Physician
    Academy Rector
    Curses
    Veteran Explorer
    Cabal Therapist
    Cabal Therapy
    Hymn to Tourach
    Inquisiton of Kozilek
    Thoughtseize
    Dark Ritual
    Phyrexian Tower

    12-16 powerful sac outlets and 12-16 creature sources that you want to sac. Perfectly balanced...
    Last edited by Captain Hammer; 06-16-2019 at 06:22 PM.

  12. #3912

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Hi, I recently built a version of Nic Fit (more or less regular abzan build) and I am having trouble with UW(x) control decks. Any advice, what to side out, what in, maybe change up the sideboard? I am not sure whether to side out removal (I have 3 paths, 3 trophies and an abrupt decay for targeted and 3 deeds in main) because of mentor. I am not sure if I should keep the explorers or not, since my opponent is likely going to be able to tutor up a lot of basics as well and be able to use them effectively. So far I have been sideboarding out my non-hexproof threats since they tend to just get swordsed.

    My current sideboard is: lost legacy 2x, Blessed Alliance 1x, Faerie Macabre 4x (budget reasons, would probably play 2x surgical, 1x faerie, 1x extirpate and maybe leyline if I had them), Inquisition fo Kozilek 1x, Duress 1x (also, looking to replace with 2x thoughtseize), Sorcerous Spyglass 1x, Pithing Needle 1x, Thrun the Last Troll 1x, Choke 3x.

    I am running small Vraska (Golgari Queen), is she any good? I am still not sure about her...

    Also I have been considering building a kind of Lands-Matter Nic Fit with crop rotations (for Karakas, Bojuka Bog, Phyrexian Tower, Hall of Heliod's Generosity (if it proves itself playable, doubt it but I have one so I might give it a try (also returns courser)) and ghost quarter) and Courser of Kruphix, Ramunap Excavator, Knight of the Reliquary etc., I think it could have better chances against fast combo like Sneak&Show or Reanimator with maindeck instant speed hate-lands. Is it any good?

    Thanks for any advice

  13. #3913
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Akyher,

    Your problem is typical trouble of all nic fit decks facing Miracles. He does everything very efficiently. Everything you do costs one two more mana.

    Best way to win is to generate CA with tracker or PW. I think best is Nissa, Vital Force as you plus her and next turn you can ultimate which is almodt always win. Fastest way is Thoughtseize into Therapy into Choke. Three Choke is a good start. I play 2-3 Sylvan in my list. Great is Bitterblossom.

    I think you want to side out some Veteran but not all. Without Shaman we cant side Veteran out anymore. But that doesent mean you have to blow them asap.

    I run one Tsunami in the board. Witness can bring it back. They cant beat it.

    Vraska is terrible as her +1 does nothing! I think the best walkers are Nissa, VF and Kaya, Ghost Assassin that can hellbent opponent after initial dicard. When they have two bad cards, lands and draw Brainstorm they are back in it.

    Karakas and Deeds (two) are great. Decay incredible. (I have 4 trophy but in this MU I d like some decay)

    Lost Legacy and Spyglass are bad and I d not play them. Nor would I tun Path and Rhinos. Cut them and you will see how eill your deck improve.

    Know your enemy - does he have Pierce? Big Teferi? New Force that removes Therapy?

    Good luck!


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  14. #3914
    The crazy nastyass honey badger

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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    @akyher: Just join the Nic Fit discord. Plenty of people there to help you and provide feedback
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  15. #3915
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    So what you are saying: leave Source? :)



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  16. #3916
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Kinda
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  17. #3917
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Kinda
    Disagree. Plenty of room for good discussion here.

    New dinosaur for us to try:

    Shifting Ceratops - 2GG

    Cannot be Countered

    Protection from Blue

    G: Reach, Trample, or Haste until EOT.

    5/4
    So, this guy seems pretty darn good.

    Pros:
    Easier to cast than Siege Rhino
    Swings past Snapcaster, Pteromander, Baleful Strix, Delver, TNN,
    Trades with Gurmang Angler (and large Goyfs)
    Pro blue means it swings past TNN without having to trample past
    Reach means you can destroy Delvers
    Haste means you can directly attack Jaces without Snapcaster blocks (similar to a Nissa role)

    Cons:

    No lightning helix to pressure/survive more
    Doesn't automatically trample


    ----------------

    Obviously there is some great synergy to having this guy as a guy to hook up to Equipment (with trample and reach). I'll be buying a set and trying him out for sure. Sure, he gets Plowed, but that's life in the fast lane.


    ----------------

    The BGW Legend that we got in the set wasn't part of the Edric/Leovold, I hope, because it's not that great.


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  18. #3918
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post
    Disagree. Plenty of room for good discussion here.

    New dinosaur for us to try:



    So, this guy seems pretty darn good.

    Pros:
    Easier to cast than Siege Rhino
    Swings past Snapcaster, Pteromander, Baleful Strix, Delver, TNN,
    Trades with Gurmang Angler (and large Goyfs)
    Pro blue means it swings past TNN without having to trample past
    Reach means you can destroy Delvers
    Haste means you can directly attack Jaces without Snapcaster blocks (similar to a Nissa role)

    Cons:

    No lightning helix to pressure/survive more
    Doesn't automatically trample


    ----------------

    Obviously there is some great synergy to having this guy as a guy to hook up to Equipment (with trample and reach). I'll be buying a set and trying him out for sure. Sure, he gets Plowed, but that's life in the fast lane.


    ----------------

    -Matt
    He seems great on the offensive side and not so bad on the defensive side.
    Reach is very nice indeed.
    We definitely lacked a "good" dude in this area.

    I still doubt about him especially since Thrun is no longer played.
    He tanks Marit lage for a turn but doesn't stall the game as Mystic enforcer would. But he doesn't require any setup.

    As a one-of he might be so so. Let's hear out about a playset (even if I'm not a fan of "creature playsets" in Nic Fit that isn't a veteran)

    Happy testing !

    Ralf

  19. #3919
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by akyher View Post
    Hi, I recently built a version of Nic Fit (more or less regular abzan build) and I am having trouble with UW(x) control decks. Any advice, what to side out, what in, maybe change up the sideboard? I am not sure whether to side out removal (I have 3 paths, 3 trophies and an abrupt decay for targeted and 3 deeds in main) because of mentor. I am not sure if I should keep the explorers or not, since my opponent is likely going to be able to tutor up a lot of basics as well and be able to use them effectively. So far I have been sideboarding out my non-hexproof threats since they tend to just get swordsed.
    What are UW(x) Control decks?
    Is it Delver? Blade? Miracles? BUG Leo? All those decks play a different game (midrange, protect the queen, heavy control, permission)

    I found Discard very good against all of them.

    Against miracles once he is on top deck mode, do not overextend your Crits. You can easily kill with Dryad Arbor after a couple of turns and he will really have to dig for a StP or Terminus. Just dont rush sacing Explorer. Do it only when you will benefit from it (after a blind CT when you have a chaser), use him as a pressure tool to steal a couple of life points. He will not waste his StP or Terminus unless he is afraid, then you can follow with discard and a bigger Crit. PW are good against miracles, except counterspell they dont have main deck response to them. Duress/Iok/TS/CT followed by for example Nissa VF, Sorin LoI, Elspeth (small or big) , Kaya Assassin should apply enough pressure to close the game.

    Blades, keep your CT for Equipment and/or establish P-Deed to nuke his TNN. TNN and blades are his best cards so you need 7 removal (4x tnn + Sofia, jitte, BS) for the rest you have bigger crits. Special tactics against these decks BS is Black very important if you play Mystic enforcer, P-Deed for zero can kill germ

    Delver trade crits use removal only on delver, because you dont have a main deck blocker against flyers, unless you play some pet cards.

    Quote Originally Posted by akyher View Post
    My current sideboard is: lost legacy 2x, Blessed Alliance 1x, Faerie Macabre 4x (budget reasons, would probably play 2x surgical, 1x faerie, 1x extirpate and maybe leyline if I had them), Inquisition fo Kozilek 1x, Duress 1x (also, looking to replace with 2x thoughtseize), Sorcerous Spyglass 1x, Pithing Needle 1x, Thrun the Last Troll 1x, Choke 3x.
    I find Faerie macabre better and play a playset, it was never relevant for me. Durres is better than IoK. If you can go for TS do it. I find tsunami better than choke. I do not see the point Trolling from the Sideboard. Blessed alliance can be problematic(doesn’t kill a defending TNN). I will go the good old Edict unless you play some Lilianas. If you struggle against Mentor, Dread of night is the card to go, helps against D&T, but hurt you side too. A single massacre if there are a lot of white decks around is great. Golgari charm is very flexible and has similar effects.

    Quote Originally Posted by akyher View Post
    I am running small Vraska (Golgari Queen), is she any good? I am still not sure about her...
    I have not play vraska, her -3 is great, rest is mediocre in my opinion, I think there are better 4mana PW to play.

    Quote Originally Posted by akyher View Post
    Also I have been considering building a kind of Lands-Matter Nic Fit with crop rotations (for Karakas, Bojuka Bog, Phyrexian Tower, Hall of Heliod's Generosity (if it proves itself playable, doubt it but I have one so I might give it a try (also returns courser)) and ghost quarter) and Courser of Kruphix, Ramunap Excavator, Knight of the Reliquary etc., I think it could have better chances against fast combo like Sneak&Show or Reanimator with maindeck instant speed hate-lands. Is it any good?
    If you want to go the lands route I will stick with the Unholy trinity: Karakas, BB, P-Tower. If you play more than two PW and less Big Crits stick in the Alliance of the Two Towers (Phyrexian Tower+Volrath's Stronghold), but be aware wastelands are everywhere.

    I am not a big fan of Courser it is only good against Burn. Excavator is great on the other side and I test him maindeck for some time. KotR is a turn 4 activation, not a big fan of him in NicFit. I found it sufficient to play 2x crop rotation and pray to survive an extra turn . Most of the time against Reanimator you are dead turn 1 or 2 if you don’t have disruption. Turn 3 against Ape and Show.

    Quote Originally Posted by akyher View Post
    Thanks for any advice
    You are welcome

  20. #3920

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    As playing from the miracle side.

    Dont crack your Explorer unless you’re about to play anything spectacular. Depending on your build miracle might benefit from the lands more than you.

    Play one threat at the time

    Walkers are good as they only die to counters, cj and beats while creatures dies to anything.

    Discard is good, CA is good
    Shroud and value guys are good
    Reb are good

    You should keep decay and perhabs deed for mentor. Board out vet and other removal.

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