[Primer] Nic Fit

[Mr. Safety]

Glad I could help!

I just need to...track down...the Tireless Trackers...but they seem pretty important. What about Ulvenwald Tracker?

[Echelon]

Nope, not what the deck wants. Feel free to try though.

[Mr. Safety]

So here is my starting list, feel free to pick it apart. I realized I don't have my Volraths Stronghold anymore, and I don't have a Phyrexian Tower. They are a little hard to come across, too.

4x Veteran Explorer
3x Deathrite shaman
4x siege rhino
1x dryad arbor
1x eternal witness
1x Courser of kruphix
1x qasali pridemage
1x gaddock teeg
1x scavenging ooze
1x meren of clan nel toth
1x sigarda, host of Herons
1x thragtusk

4x green Sun's Zenith
4x cabal therapy
1x thoughtseize
3x path to exile
2x abrupt decay
3x pernicious deed
1x sylvan library
1x vindicate
1x garruk relentless

4x verdant catacombs
3x windswept heath
1x marsh flats
1x bayou
1x Savannah
1x scrubland
3x forest
2x plains
2x swamp
1x rogue's passage
1x maze of ith

Sideboard
3x duress
2x surgical extraction
2x ethersworn canonist
2x choke
2x Bitterblossom
2x pithing needle
1x golgari charm
1x sigarda, Heron's Grace


I have the lost legacys, which seem very good against combo like storm and show/sneak. Kinda want to jam hymns but I feel like I need more dudes (trackers at least.) Also trying to figure out if Primeval Titan or Grave titan are worth slots. Prime gets the rogues passage, or the other utility lands when I get them, and grave is just a monster. Also looking at Sorin, Solemn visitor and Elspeth, Sun's Champion. Looking through the thread, all of those cards have appeared in lists. Not knowing the deck very well I'm not sure on the right configurarion. I just know I want to jam rhinos.

[sdematt]

Greetings folks,

Finally back. Exams, learning to kill a man, buying a house, and buying another car have been severely stifling my Magic creativity. I'm sorry I didn't get to see any of you at GP Seattle, but I ended up getting stranded in Vancouver at the last minute.

I think I'm officially in the "I don't get to play often, so going to play fun shit" circle since I missed the GP.

I was to play Jund Value Grind, so I'm going to run this at the next local. No, I don't want Valakut. Let's tune THIS pile with any suggestions from new sets. I'm here to win the Great Deathrite War and crush the soulless Delver pilots.

4 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Plague Spitter (Get fucking rekt Peezy, Elves, DnT, etc.)
1 Master of the Wild Hunt/Creakwood Liege
1 Deranged Hermit (you'll see)
1 Spiritmonger (nice 5/5)
1 Regisaur Alpha
1 Thragtusk
1 Carnage Tyrant

4 GSZ
4 Therapy
3 Punishing Fires
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Recurring Nightmare (see? valueeeeee)
2 Kolaghan's Command (valueeeeee)
2 Sylvan Library
1 Mirri's Guile
1 Painful Truths

3 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Volraths Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Bayou
2 Taiga
1 Badlands
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
6 Fetchies

-----BOARD-----

2 Tsabo's Web
2 Destructive Flow
3 GY Hate
1 Plague Spitter
2 Thoughtseize
2 Lost Legacy
3 Damping Sphere


-------------------------------------

All I want to do is loop things with Nightmare, make Squirrels, do silly Spiritmonger things. Fires and Scooze can handle opposing Deathrites (or Command/Decay/Deed...) so I can start working my Magic. I want to live the dream of looping Thragtusk with Deranged Hermit, to make ZombieFish irrelevant with a 9/9 Spiritmonger, etc.

Destructive Flow as the slow grind against all the decks that basically play no basics; Tsabo's Web is a better anti-Lands card. 3 more GY hate to help cover lands. Plague Spitter to pulse the board and annoy everyone. Damping Sphere to help against Storm, Elves, and Eldrazi.

[mistercakes]

i like phantom centaur over spiritmonger if you're gonna go semi-old school.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Also, Spiritmonger is a 6/6.

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[mistercakes]

Yea it is a 6/6, but to what purpose is it?

Anyway, I like old janky cards like that. To each their own.

[Echelon]

@Mr. Safety: The 6-drops usually aren't necessary for Junk lists. If you do want to go for a 6-drop, just go for Carnage Tyrant. It pretty much always works and is very hard to answer. The biggest changes I'd make to your list at the moment are trimming some of the fat for either Tireless Trackers (when they stick they can easily walk away with the game) or more library manipulation, which allows you to be more versatile with your gameplan. First things to go should be Thragtusk (you really don't need it w/ 4 Rhinos), Garruk and then Vindicate.

@sdematt: You're nuts

[sdematt]

@Mr. Safety: The 6-drops usually aren't necessary for Junk lists. If you do want to go for a 6-drop, just go for Carnage Tyrant. It pretty much always works and is very hard to answer. The biggest changes I'd make to your list at the moment are trimming some of the fat for either Tireless Trackers (when they stick they can easily walk away with the game) or more library manipulation, which allows you to be more versatile with your gameplan. First things to go should be Thragtusk (you really don't need it w/ 4 Rhinos), Garruk and then Vindicate.

@sdematt: You're nuts

Spiritmonger is a 6/6...for now! Purpose? Fat and fun. I'd prefer a trampler, sure, but c'mon!

-Matt

[Echelon]

Spiritmonger is a 6/6...for now! Purpose? Fat and fun. I'd prefer a trampler, sure, but c'mon!

-Matt

Just join the discord dammit

[Mr. Safety]

If ulvenwald tracker had a bff other than Phyrexian Obliterator, it would be spiritmonger. The regen is pretty sweet. I was looking at Reaper of the Wilds, but I'm already jamming 4x Rhino, which is clearly better. Not sure I want more 4 drops, the deck does want to curve out.

@Echelon: thanks! I'll leave the titans out for now. I know I need trackers, working on it. Regarding manipulation, would you suggest a 2nd library? Seems good to me. What about leyline Sigarda as a token maker?

Now for some jank: how do you feel about Profane Command? All the modes are good and it scales up the more mana I have. Nonbo with Teeg, but I'm probably going to sideboard him. Also curious about Yavimaya Elder. It's like Explorer on steroids.

[Echelon]

Library or Mirri's Guile, either works just fine. You'll want at least around 3 of those in total.

If you move to Guiles you do want to switch a Deed for a Toxic Deluge though.

I wouldn't bother with token makers, or Command. You want your threats simple and hard to kill and your interaction as cheap as possible. You're competing against 0 mana counters and other 1 mana removal, after all. And then there's mana denial to deal with. You'd be surprised how tight mana can be at times. I like my lists to be able to operate on as little mana as possible.

[Mr. Safety]

Thanks. Yav Elder?

[Echelon]

Way too slow. By the time you can put him to use, you don't really need the mana anymore. I mean, GSZ for that through Daze means you're @5 mana.

[Mr. Safety]

Good point. With all the old skool cards being tossed around, I figured I'd put that one out there too.

Is Sigarda, Heron's Grace worth it for the hexproof (sideboard)? Yes it seems slow, but I can see this happening on t4, maybe t3 with a nut draw of Explorer>Therapy. The decks that you want it against are Storm and Burn, both fairly bad matchups I would think. Rhino and Thragtusk are plenty for the burn matchup, but hexproof after a few discard spells seems like lights out against Storm.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I thought that perhaps stating Spiritmonger was a 6/6 would clarify the idea that it deals with angler cleanly and is only hit by white removal. I love Spiritmonger, reminds me of some of my early days where Anurid Brushhopper, Monger, Vindicate and Deed were all in one deck. Man I miss those days.

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[Mr. Safety]

Swords vs Paths...I know Path seems ideal in a deck that is already pulling out basics with Explorer, but STP is STP. It also makes me want to splash a Kavu Predator and Grove/Fires, but that's a bit too janky, even for me...

Regardless, is Path the go-to white removal?

[Echelon]

If on Rhinos, yes. StP is top choice for Nyx Fit.

I'll get back to you on Sigarda tomorrow. On my phone atm.

[JackaBo]

If on Rhinos, yes. StP is top choice for Nyx Fit.

I'll get back to you on Sigarda tomorrow. On my phone atm.

I actually like all removal to do double duty as sac outlet in RectorFit. I also like to keep white the tertiary color in that deck, thus keeping all interactive spells black.
But absolutely, if chosing between swords and path it's swords in RectorFit

[Echelon]

Is Sigarda, Heron's Grace worth it for the hexproof (sideboard)? Yes it seems slow, but I can see this happening on t4, maybe t3 with a nut draw of Explorer>Therapy. The decks that you want it against are Storm and Burn, both fairly bad matchups I would think. Rhino and Thragtusk are plenty for the burn matchup, but hexproof after a few discard spells seems like lights out against Storm.

So, on Sigarda, Heron's Grace. B/c she doesn't get hexproof herself she's no replacement for the MD Sigarda, Host of Herons (again, you want your top end to be as hard to kill as possible). As SB hate vs. Storm it seems hardly useful. It's a 5 CMC card (or 6, as you'll likely GSZ for it), which is far too slow to deal w/ fast combo. That's why we run Lost Legacy as top end hate. If your opponent only runs Tendrils, it says "3 mana: I win the game". It's also very versatile in other bad MUs. Vs. Miracles, you can use it to strip away Jace/Terminus. Vs. Elves! it takes Craterhoof Behemoth, vs AnyShow and Tell and Reanimator it takes away whatever they have in hand that bothers you most. Otherwise, we also have access to Gaddock Teeg, Ethersworn Canonists (must-answer cards for Storm) and additional discard to help you get to the point where you can actually cast LL, Teeg & Canonist. Oh, and Surgical Extraction is pretty good too.

Junk also has a pretty good Burn MU, so no need to run stuff in your SB just for that. Besides, they generally aim to have you dead after 6/7 spells (so turn 3 or 4) which again would mean Sigarda is way too slow to make any kind of impact.