Yes, that was mine ;)Originally Posted by Brael
For instance I will try a list with souls and curse of predation, but without veteran...
I think we need a plan B, if only because our A plan is a midrange combo that doesn't win the game instantly.
It is not surgical that I fear, it's that horrible leyline (yes they started using that against me and that suck hardcore) but DRS is also a problem.
During my testing I often found leap too slow (no effect before turn 3) and while when you get going you usually win the turn after, it sometimes start not fast enough for the format. So I'm starting to think that going all in on rector might be wrong and that it's good to have "being a nic fit deck" as a plan B. Also it saddens me too much to see green sun with so few targets.
@ incoming tournament : I'm scrapping a bob fit list togther, I'll post what I salvaged from my "mess box".
There were a number of blue decks, they were kinda the meta...
R1- Czech pile 2-0 win
R2- Grixis delver 2-0 win
R3- Red Stax? 2-0 win
R4- Infect 2-0 win
R5- Grixis delver 2-1 win
R6- Show and tell 2-0 win
R7- Grixis delver 1-2 Loss
R8- Carnage Tyrant battle "as seen on reddit" 0-2 Loss
R9- Ad Nauseam 2-0 win
R10- Punishing Maverick 2-1 win
R11- Turbo depths 2-1 win
Overall I have been really happy with the deck, I wish the flusterstorm was an invasive surgery but I was too lazy to find one Saturday morning when I was sleeving up
Could you expand on your sideboarding for each round?
Yes, it's sad to have so few targets. Yes, it doesn't matter.I think we need a plan B, if only because our A plan is a midrange combo that doesn't win the game instantly
It is not surgical that I fear, it's that horrible leyline (yes they started using that against me and that suck hardcore) but DRS is also a problem.
During my testing I often found leap too slow (no effect before turn 3) and while when you get going you usually win the turn after, it sometimes start not fast enough for the format. So I'm starting to think that going all in on rector might be wrong and that it's good to have "being a nic fit deck" as a plan B. Also it saddens me too much to see green sun with so few targets.
Leyline is much easier to deal with than Surgical, imho. You have deed, for example.
Leap gives redundancy at Nyx Fit, in an incredible way: you have to ramp and set up in the first 2-3 turns, then you either play rector and wins or play leap, reach a rector and wins
Leyline is tough because while I'm trying to reach 4 mana without explorer to activate deed (If i'm lucky to have the deed ), my opponents have the dirty habit to play magic instead of kindly wait for me
Seriously, the first rector trigger doesn't win the game and I found myself dying "when I would have won the next turn" and it feels bad.
But I must say that when evo leap gets going it is so good.
In summary when things go well, evo leap is the best, but when things go sour, they go really sour, like pringle's sour & onions.
Maybe if we find a token producer cheaper than souls... or a way to accelerate our mana which does not get in the way of the leap.
Anyway that's problems for later.
the list I managed to build with what available to me is not that satisfying (and to my shame my playmate don't have the pieces for nic fit to lend me, the cantrip cartel no problem but nic fit, not a card)
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Qasali Pridemage
4 Dark Confidant
2 Eternal Witness
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Chameleon Colossus
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Path to Exile
3 Crop Rotation
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Karakas
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
3 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
2 Swamp
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 2 Deathrite Shaman
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Duress
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Carpet of Flowers
SB: 1 Golgari Charm
SB: 1 Toxic Deluge
SB: 1 Diabolic Edict
Suggestions welcome but my card pool is limited.
Assuming you mean the Bob list you posted. What about it isn't satisfying?the list I managed to build with what available to me is not that satisfying (and to my shame my playmate don't have the pieces for nic fit to lend me, the cantrip cartel no problem but nic fit, not a card
Congratulations to the 2 Nic Fiters making T16 at EW. With 2 different variants no less, I'm glad to see Nic Fit represent well in a room full of delvers like we're supposed to.
As for the Gitrog, I got some testing in over the weekend and never had it come up when it mattered. In 8 matches I saw it in 2 games, 1 game I was ported off of anything more than a 3 drop and the other it ran smoothly but didn't really need to be there.
It does cripple your mana development but that can be mitigated. If the rest of the deck is low to the ground, it's trading cards for mana. Playing mostly instant speed value cards at the cmc 1&2 drop helps us close out.
That being said, even if we look at our land count as a resource like necropotence looks at life (this is at the bare minimum a stretch), I never had the Gitrog turn a corner. If we're winning we're winning and if we're losing it doesn't really help stabilize.
Same with Excavator. It came up more frequently but without a build around land package it's not worthwhile imo. Maverick style decks could utilize it but I wasn't really going for that.
Too bad, I guess I'll put this toad back in the box until wizards prints something else that might work with it.
For the last Wednesday in NicFitober it looks like I will be playing Xanthrid Necromancer humans. The list is a lot like Brael's GB SE list, with some better cards swapped out for the necromancer. It won't be as good but hopefully I get some zombies on the board for the Halloween feel.
A question, mainly to @Arianrhod:
During the last year there has been kind of a consensus here (and I think you said it yourself) that Sneak Fit was the better of the two Jund combo-ish variants (the other being ScapeWish). Why did you opt for the latter for Eternal Weekend? Do you feel that the two dinosaurs significantly help the deck? I assume they can't be played in Sneak Fit because it already has plenty of expensive creatures that can't be cut.
Or did you just feel that the meta was weaker to ScapeWish than to Sneak Fit, and if that is the case, what was your reasoning?
I've always liked the Burning Wishes as they are such a versatile card, but without having tested Sneak Fit I was lead to believe it just had more raw power and speed.
Czech Pile
In - To the slaughter, Deed, Nissa, Golgari Charm
Out - Teeg, Dragonlord Dromoka, Titania, crop rotation
To the slaughter is a 2-for-1 almost every time it's cast. Deed and charm mostly stopped them from hiding behind strix.
Grixis Delver
In - Deed, charm, Engineered Plague
Out - Teeg, Titania, crop rotation
Taking out low impact cards for cards that stop them from going wide.
Red Stax
In - Lost Legacy, To the Slaughter, Deed, reclamation sage, Krosan grip
Out - Kitchen finks, toxic deluge, 2x fatal push, Teeg
All I needed to do was keep his ensnaring bridges off the table. I had a 13-for-1 Deed that felt great.
Infect
In - To the slaughter, Deed, charm, thoughtseize, plague, krosan grip
Out - Thragtusk, Nissa, Meren, finks, Chameleon Colossus, Teeg
Just -1/-1 effects and ways to deal with Inkmoth mostly. Krosan grip was awesome for dealing with Inkmoth
Sneak and Show
In - Lost legacy, To the Slaughter, flusterstorm, charm, thoughtseize, krosan grip, mindbreak trap, reclamation sage
Out - Chameleon Colossus, thragtusk, deed, 2x fatal push, 2x abrupt decay, toxic deluge
Experience with cabal therapy and Teeg make this matchup fine. Karakas and ways to get a early sneak attack off the field are helpful if we get behind
DinoFit
I was completely unprepared and honestly it seems like a nightmare of a quasi mirror. I don't know what I brought in. I was just really excited to have a NicFit mirror in the 7-1 bracket!
ANT
In - 4x Leyline of the void, lost legacy, mindbreak trap, flusterstorm, thoughtseize
Out - 2x Fatal Push, toxic deluge, carnage tyrant, 2x abrupt decay, Titania, Nissa
Teeg, hand disruption, graveyard hate. If they don't go off turn 1 the game becomes heavily in our favor. Game 1 they just immediately scoop to Teeg.
Punishing Maverick
In - 4x Leyline, deed, plague
Out - Voice of resurgence, Chameleon Colossus, Dragonlord Dromoka, crop rotation, Teeg, Kitchen Finks
They're just a bad fair deck if you Leyline them, we crush fair decks. Almost all their relevant creatures are human so Engineered Plague is surprisingly good here
Lands
In - 4x Leyline, to the slaughter
Out - 2x Fatal Push, toxic deluge, 2x Abrupt decay
Crop Rotation/Titania w/ Wasteland/Karakas shine here. They have very few action spells so therapy is nice. Fun fact, Chameleon Colossus walks right past Marit Lage.
Yes that's the list.
Had I access to all my cards, I would have 2 tracker 1 witness instead of the opposite, and 1 or 2 brutality main instead of other removal. Also not sur about chameleon as my top end (but it is so good VS Czech pile and grixis).
Anyway I find it so frustrating to have to build without access to my binders, but that's what you get for marrying(that and two beautiful daughters)
DinoFit?!?! Is that a thing?!?
That's the point. I've done a hundred of games at least (way more, probably) with Nyx Fit, and i've never lost a game after a resolved rector trigger with the last cards (Splendor, Sandwurm).
So, over the last month and a half I've played several variants (lower tier/ newer) Nic Fit brews.
A short synopsis of my opinion on the various builds.
_________
GB
GB Humans, this deck was missing a strong top end. Xanthrid Necromancer is bad (expecting this going in) and it took the spot of something big to close the game with. Meren was surprisingly good, and Bob is confirmed amazing (I did not expect it to pull as much weight as it did). I did regret not trying the new pirate from ixalan that's a human but I already had enough non-G creatures in the deck.
GB Gitrog, the engine itself ran correctly when I had it, but it was never necessary and could just as easily be more disruption/something lower to the ground.
On the GB decks themselves, I think they are reasonable to play. The sideboard options seemed a little light but the cleaner mana base allows for a lot of maindeck disruption.
_________
Temur
Honestly, the deck was super fun. It also did not feel terrible and had a lot of lines to it that could result in a win or loss. But playing without black is still wrong. Cabal therapy alone is worth the color, not to mention lands like phyrexian tower being more relevant.
_________
BUG/4C BUGr Superfriends
BUG Superfriends felt reasonable. The top end is a little weird since you cannot GSZ for walkers, but they will close out a game nicely. 4C is too greedy of a mana base, at least in the configuration that I brought to locals.
Oath of Nissa is nice, but easily a card I want to cut in this archetype for the moment.
_________
Birthing Pod
Honestly, as much as I wanted pod to be good it is still far too slow and lackluster to do anything relevant. Maybe again one day, but the time for this seems to still be behind us
_________
BUG/ BUG Delirium
The real difference between the two for the lists I played were Emrakul the promised end. I included a bitterblossom for delirium but otherwise this was the typical Leovold deck. Emrakul the promised end did not seem like a necessity, and bitterblossom was not good everywhere (felt like it should be a sideboard card).
BUG by itself is fine but didn't seem to be any stronger than the other common Nic Fit Builds.
_________
Punishing Jund
The deck is fun, but a bit slow, definitely not something I would bring to a bigger event.
_________
Valakut Dinosaurs
I think I am playing the deck wrong, I got 1 valakut kill, and otherwise always jammed with dinosaurs. The deck feels good. Provides more than just the previous Jund variant did. I definitely will be playing this again.
_________
Rhino Junk Fit
This is my baby, nothing gets better than this. It may also be that I've had a lot of familiarity with this particular deck and my list, but Rhinos are still amazing. Fatal push is still a little annoying but I've moved Thrun back into my 75 as a result.
_________
So, the best is imo is either going to be Rhino's or Leovold. But I am cautiously excited to see how Jund Dino Scapewish does in the future.
Thanks everyone who helped me out with ideas, provided sweet decklists to work off of and provided feedback on the sub-optimal choices I made on cards.
Congrats to the gentlemen on here who placed. Great job!
Off topic brewing of old, old spice - regular Jund Fire Nic Fit.
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Deathrite Shaman
2 Noble Hierarch
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Carnage Tyrant
1 Regisaur Alpha
14
3 Punishing Fire
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Diabolic Intent
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Liliana the Last Hope/Collective Brutality
2 Kolaghan's Command
11
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
1 Night's Whisper
2 Sylvan Library
14
22 Lands
3 Grove of the Burnwillows
3 Bayou
2 Badlands
1 Taiga
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Phyrexian Tower
----------------------------
2 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Boil
2 Tsabo's Web
2 Pyroclasm
2 Null Rod
2 Compost
1 Lost Legacy
2 Pyroblast
I wanted to build a deck that obviously just took its' time ;)
Noble seems weird, but I've really been loving her for exalted and the bit of extra mana. I'm sure 4 DRS could also be fine, but it's obviously how you would have won that Carnage Tyrant stand off.
Packing Recurring Nightmare because you have infinite ways to deal with Shaman, and since your Tyrant is never getting Plowed, he's likely dying in combat (lol) or getting Edicted. Bring em back. Or, loop Thragtusks or Regisaurs. If I'm already playing Intent to tutor for Fires/Grove, why not a Nightmare?
Board - Null Rod is the concession to hating Lands and DnT sometimes locking you out, also some double duty against Combo. Compost is nice when 6/8 Top 8 of EW are black splashed; gives you some comeback on Hymns and the ilk. I guess one could play Carpet. Whatever, would rather draw cards and try it out.
Just funning around with the minutes I have to spare.
Making the most out of your poops!
Or... Making sure your poops count!
@Littlesamsonite: What I'm most curious about - why the Voice of Resurgences and Kitchen Finks? Both of those feel very misplaced. And why no Path to Exiles? I mean, if there is a reason to run white it's that.
I think it is.
I am playing 2 Ripjaw, 2-3 regisaur and 2 carnage.
The rest is Classic non p-fire jund. Works fine i think. Hopefully we get a better 4cmc Dino next time. The raptor is cool and eyerything but sometimes he just gets a sword and leaves nothing.
If i could make it work i would go for 4 regisaur, but with vital forces and Thragtusk the 5 CMC slots are so tight.
Have you tried the Fierce Empath / Elder Deep-Fiend BUG build? I've found it very solid, since it helps with the BUG list's usual issues of finishing the game and somewhat helps with the colours' lack of removal also. Also lets you run Emrakul PE as a control game ender out of the sideboard, and lets you find finishers reliably without having to run Traverse (which makes your early vet triggers horribly unreliable).
You're right about the Kitchen Finks it almost definitely should be a Tireless Tracker or another removal spell (probably Pernicious Deed), honestly I just couldn't find my tracker and I was too grumpy about it to buy a new one. Voice of Resurgence is sneaky good, making everyone play their removal at sorcery speed and punishing their counters has been strong. I went back and forth on path over push and despite the fact that I still believe path is good in RhinoFit decks I felt Fatal Push was better right now. Push is just cleaner especially when I want to deal with a turn 1 Deathrite or Delver, I don't want to ramp them into a turn 2 Leovold/TNN/Liliana/Knight/Crusader if I'm not ramping myself into my own big green monstersMaking the most out of your poops!
Or... Making sure your poops count!
@Littlesamsonite: What I'm most curious about - why the Voice of Resurgences and Kitchen Finks? Both of those feel very misplaced. And why no Path to Exiles? I mean, if there is a reason to run white it's that.
Most decks where you want to deal with a T1 DRS/Delver don't run any basics though, so what's the problem? Elves is a bad MU anyways & Maverick you'll still waltz right over. Especially if you also plan to pop Explorers.
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