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Thread: [Primer] Nic Fit

  1. #2061

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    http://www.magicspoiler.com/mtg-spoiler/regisaur-alpha/

    Right now i can not find we're in mtgs i read it, but that would be the cars

  2. #2062

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by bruizar View Post
    Brainstorm gets significantly worse when fetchlands are disabled. If they don't have different types of fetchlands in their hand / top 3, they are essentially locked out of the game. Also, looking at someone's hand isn't just a benefit for the Needle effect. It helps you guide your strategy for the game and gives you emergent knowledge.

    Ancient Tomb - Chalice 1 and Ancient Tomb - Spyglass fetch will soon hit legacy tournaments near you
    It might be Legacy playable because it dodges Chalice, that doesn't mean it's a good card in Nic Fit though.

  3. #2063

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    So... I just saw Haven Raptor from Ixalan. It's a 4 mana, 4/5 with Tough, which says "Whenever x is dealt damage, draw a card" and this made me think of... Pestilence.

    Keep the board clean & draw more and more cards to keep in control.

    What do you guys think? Viable tech or The Danger Of Cool Things? I'm leaning toward the latter, but I did want to throw this out there.
    fiery confluence could work well. same cost as pestilence and has immediate impact. 3 cards for 4 mana and a small creature board wipe isnt bad at all.

  4. #2064
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    So... I just saw Haven Raptor from Ixalan. It's a 4 mana, 4/5 with Tough, which says "Whenever x is dealt damage, draw a card" and this made me think of... Pestilence.

    Keep the board clean & draw more and more cards to keep in control.

    What do you guys think? Viable tech or The Danger Of Cool Things? I'm leaning toward the latter, but I did want to throw this out there.
    Seems good when your ahead, seems bad when your behind.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dalton! View Post
    In regards of the fair lists. Stormbreath Dragon must be a powerful card right now.
    Finally!
    Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
    Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
    4c Aggro Loam

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatto View Post
    How about: ramp into Deed, clear the board, and bash your opponent's head in.

  5. #2065

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Olivia Voldaren could ping him and you could use Punishing Fire.

    Fiery confluence seems like a fun Card, too.

  6. #2066
    bruizar
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Brael View Post
    It might be Legacy playable because it dodges Chalice, that doesn't mean it's a good card in Nic Fit though.
    true, I doubt its good enough for nic fit as the list is already super tight

  7. #2067
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Okay, so here's what I've been up to for the last while.

    I would specifically like Echelon and Brael's eyes on this because world of mathcraft. See if there's any ways to make the core better.

    4 Veteran Explorer
    4 Walking Ballista
    1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
    2 Eternal Witness
    1 Tireless Tracker
    1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
    1 Palace Jailer
    1 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
    1 Thragtusk
    1 Sun Titan

    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
    1 Toxic Deluge

    3 Fatal Push
    2 Abrupt Decay

    2 Liliana, the Last Hope

    1 Sylvan Library
    3 Pernicious Deed

    1 Phyrexian Tower
    1 Volrath's Stronghold
    1 Karakas
    4 Forest
    2 Swamp
    2 Plains
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Windswept Heath
    2 Bayou
    1 Savannah

    sb::
    1 Pulse of Murasa
    2 Lingering Souls
    1 Zealous Persecution
    1 Golgari Charm
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Sanctum Prelate
    2 Thoughtseize
    1 flex

    This is rough. I'll say it again, this is rough.

    However, the Traverse shell does finally seem to have legs.

    Ballista is a missing link, I think. I tried Ballista as a 1-of when I was testing Leshrac's list and it absolutely blew me away -- I never even used Cloudpost mana on it. It was just amazing, even for 2 or 3. That got me wondering about Traverse -- after all, we'd only ever thought of Traverse in context of Baleful Strix before, and Strix doesn't like to die to turn on delirium, because it's holding down the fort in play as people are unwilling to swing into it. Ballista has no such qualms and will gladly turn on delirium for us while generating value. Furthermore, it's an extra midgame kill spell for irritating Deathrites which attempt to impair our delirium generation. Strix can't touch DRS no matter what stage of game you're in.

    Part of the problem with Brainstorm and Ponder in Nic Fit has always been that we've been unwilling to find slots for them. With Traverse, it's guaranteed to find a land (unlikely Ponder/BS which are only 'likely to'). This means that instead of the typical 22-23 land slots Nic Fit typically has to run, we can use Traverse to skimp down to 20 lands, which makes Traverse essentially "pay for itself," if you will. I'll note here that I was somewhat skeptical about this, but it's actually been working out just fine. 20 lands + 4 vets + 4 Traverse actually runs super smoothly -- it almost never floods /or/ screws.

    Ishkanah is the only other card I want to talk about briefly. Ishkanah is a hell of a payoff. It doesn't seem like she should be, but dear god is she ridiculous, especially if you assemble Karakas with her. She represents a very sticky, very hard to deal with threat which is also a very, very swift clock. Has absolutely surprised me.

    So, here's the "step back" thought process...kind of on Nic Fit in general atm, not just this core.

    I think that we're barking up the wrong tree trying to replace Top. I don't think we CAN replace Top...not even by going into blue and adopting the cantrip core. You'd see this played out before with Miracles -- even decks with 10 cantrips would eventually succumb to Top over a long game. We're not going to be able to fix that.

    Instead, we need to take a step out of the box and look at the problem caused by the lack of Top. What did Top do for us? It helped tie together our threats and mana, pushing expensive late-game bombs away while digging us to removal and interaction to make sure we got to them later on.

    That being the case, we need to now accept the fact that we are vulnerable to drawing too many lands, or too few. The solution to this, I feel, is to focus on a system of mana sinks coupled with a density of valuable topdecks. Ballista, Ishkanah, Tracker, and Volraths are all good manasinks, and they're all tutorable by Traverse. Liliana Last Hope is something I brought up a couple months ago as something that was worth exploring, and I think she shines here -- she's a round-about manasink by recurring previously spent threats (especially Ballistae, which is gross). Postboard you also gain Lingering Souls as another mana sink. The deck is also very threat-dense while still being low to the ground -- not quite as low to the ground as one of Brael's SE piles, but still pretty low.

    I definitely want some more eyes on this, playing with the shell, tinkering with it, seeing what all we can do with it and where we can push it...this is just an early attempt on my end, and I would like to get something competitive up and running again by Eternal Weekend for obvious reasons.

    The core, as I see it, is thus:

    20 lands

    4 Vet
    4 Ballista
    2 Eternal Witness
    1 Ishkanah

    4 Therapy
    4 Zenith
    4 Traverse

    4+ instant-speed removal spells

    3 Deed

    That leaves 10 slots completely open to be toyed with. Obviously, you want some more creatures to get extra value out of Traverse...but in general, the field's pretty open. You could run any color to splash, or straight GB. You could incorporate a combo (Sam and I looked at Archangel of Thune when working on this as a possibility). This core flows really, really smoothly -- it's a pleasure to goldfish and it's a lot of fun to play in actual events, as well. The challenge is figuring out the best configuration of cards to add to this core to make a competitively viable deck with a strong plan.

    I /personally/ don't think that you can leave it just GB because you need to have some kind of reasonable combo matchup, and being able to tutor for hatebears is pretty grand. But, I dunno. It might be there are some sideboard options vs combo that I'm overlooking. I also like that the deck is pretty good at covering its own bases -- it looks weak to Chalice because of the extra 1-drops, but then you consider that it's ALSO running a bunch of cards that are good vs Chalice decks and ways to get rid of any Chalices that do happen.

    I dunno. I think there's something here. It's definitely not as "easy to find" as Scapewish or Sneak was, though. Any reasonable help is appreciated.

  8. #2068
    The crazy nastyass honey badger

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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Arianrhod View Post
    ...List & rationale...
    You might want to add another (fetch)land to your manabase. As it is now, the manabase is unstable w/ only 13 initial green sources, 10 white and 10 black. This might be a good list to implement the 21 land, 10 fetch manabase (since it'll help w/ Delirium) of 10 fetch, 2 of each basic & 1 of each dual and 2 utility lands (putting you @14/14/14). It'll take some getting used to, but you'll get there. Just prioritize fetching basics over duals.

    As for the core, Qasali Pridemage seems like a good fit. It can deal with some pesky stuff and help turn on Delirium.

    Another angle you could take is Karador, Ghost Chieftain. You intend to get stuff in your GY and you can now Traverse for it. It forms a nice loop w/ Ballista & Pridemage and would turn Shriekmaw into a neat SB card. You could also use it to loop an Eternal Witness once you've Traversed for Phyrexian Tower.
    Last edited by Echelon; 08-25-2017 at 08:37 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  9. #2069

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Ballista is probably better than Pestilence for that new 2GG 4/5 Tough creature...
    Maybe if you're splashing white you can play Vault of the Archangel as a utility land. You aim to have enough mana to eventually use it (unlike most legacy decks) and it's very powerful with Ishkanah and Ballista.
    I'm not sure that Kambal is better than Teeg even with Traverse and I still think you want some sort of Rec Sage / QPM effect.
    Why do you think 2 Witness is essential instead of just 1?

  10. #2070
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    This just hit me...

    When you're running so many Ballista and plan to use a 6-drop, why not include a...

    Mephidross Vampire!

    It + Ballista w/ >=2 counters = only you have creatures.

    It + Ballista w/ >=2 counters + Tough Raptor = draw 4 extra cards per turn, every turn.

    It + Ballista w/ >=3 counters + Winding Constrictor = you win.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  11. #2071

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Winding Constrictor seems pretty good with Meren in addition to all the others. Why no Verdurous Gearhulk? G Teeg? Mephridross sounds so good. I remember the old days of standard lol. Spike Feeder and Thune Angel seems like an easy synergy inclusion. I like that he Delirium tilt, but DRS can take you offline so fast. I'd play a single Recurring Nightmare in this one btw. I like the green cantrip analysis. Keep it going, all.


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  12. #2072

    [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Arianrhod View Post
    4 Veteran Explorer
    4 Walking Ballista
    1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
    2 Eternal Witness
    1 Tireless Tracker
    1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
    1 Palace Jailer
    1 Ishkanah, Grafwidow
    1 Thragtusk
    1 Sun Titan

    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Traverse the Ulvenwald
    1 Toxic Deluge

    3 Fatal Push
    2 Abrupt Decay

    2 Liliana, the Last Hope

    1 Sylvan Library
    3 Pernicious Deed

    1 Phyrexian Tower
    1 Volrath's Stronghold
    1 Karakas
    4 Forest
    2 Swamp
    2 Plains
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Windswept Heath
    2 Bayou
    1 Savannah
    I like this deck!
    But isn't the maindeck a little weak to combo decks. Versus fair you got 4 Ballista plus Jailer and 4 Traverse to fetch them, 5 spot removal, 2 Lilianas and 4 sweepers. That's a ton!
    Verus combo you got only 4 Therapies and Kambal plus traverse to fetch it. Fetching a Kambal with traverse is maybe possible on turn..4? That's too late versus many combo decks.
    At least a Teeg can come down on turn 3 via GSZ. I actually like kambal, but maybe it's too slow for what it's there for. Perhabs some removals could be Collective brutality, to be more flexible? The minus effect have a little synergy with Liliana and Ballista.
    Also, why do you run Push instead of path/swords. The deck seems rather invested in white (WW in Suntitan and Jailer) and you already got plenty of ways to deal with weenies. Anglers and cheated-in-fattys you have no real answer for.
    Last edited by JackaBo; 08-25-2017 at 06:26 AM.

  13. #2073
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    You might want to add another (fetch)land to your manabase. As it is now, the manabase is unstable w/ only 13 initial green sources, 10 white and 10 black. This might be a good list to implement the 21 land, 10 fetch manabase (since it'll help w/ Delirium) of 10 fetch, 2 of each basic & 1 of each dual and 2 utility lands (putting you @14/14/14). It'll take some getting used to, but you'll get there. Just prioritize fetching basics over duals.

    As for the core, Qasali Pridemage seems like a good fit. It can deal with some pesky stuff and help turn on Delirium.

    Another angle you could take is Karador, Ghost Chieftain. You intend to get stuff in your GY and you can now Traverse for it. It forms a nice loop w/ Ballista & Pridemage and would turn Shriekmaw into a neat SB card. You could also use it to make loop an Eternal Witness once you've Traversed for Phyrexian Tower.
    Qasali is probably a good idea. I like Karador, but am always skeptical of actually turning him on. How much does he typically cost, in your experience?

    Lands are a no go, sadly. At most I could see adding another fetch as a 21st, but again, it's run so smoothly as it is that I'm scared to mess with it. You can't get away with less than 8 basics IMO, because now you have Traverse + Vet sucking them out. I get every single one of those basics in pretty short order in this deck, and if I didn't have that many, I would be losing value for sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    Ballista is probably better than Pestilence for that new 2GG 4/5 Tough creature...
    Maybe if you're splashing white you can play Vault of the Archangel as a utility land. You aim to have enough mana to eventually use it (unlike most legacy decks) and it's very powerful with Ishkanah and Ballista.
    I'm not sure that Kambal is better than Teeg even with Traverse and I still think you want some sort of Rec Sage / QPM effect.
    Why do you think 2 Witness is essential instead of just 1?
    Vault also plays well with Lingering Souls postboard. That would be another option for a 21st land, I think. Vault isn't better than Two Towers or Karakas, for sure.

    I've been of the opinion that the 2nd E.Wit has been core for a while now, honestly. It just helps us grind so well to have a 2nd copy of that card -- it's just good vs everything, and lets us use our graveyard as a second tutorable zone, which helps lessen the blow of Top a bit.

    I'll address Teeg below.

    Quote Originally Posted by TTX View Post
    Winding Constrictor seems pretty good with Meren in addition to all the others. Why no Verdurous Gearhulk? G Teeg? Mephridross sounds so good. I remember the old days of standard lol. Spike Feeder and Thune Angel seems like an easy synergy inclusion. I like that he Delirium tilt, but DRS can take you offline so fast. I'd play a single Recurring Nightmare in this one btw. I like the green cantrip analysis. Keep it going, all.
    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    I considered Snek and then thought better of my choices. The problem with Snek is that he doesn't do anything unless you're already doing something else. He doesn't do anything by himself and generates no value. He's just a 2/3 for BG. If you happen to have a Ballista with him, that's kind of nice...but that's the only synergy in the whole deck for him. Meren is fine, but Snek + Meren seems very magical christmas to me.

    I've tried VHulk and it was underwhelming...here. I do have another, very different list where VHulk is exceptional...it involves True-Name Nemesis.

    The issue I had with Spike-Thune is that it eats up a surprising amount of space. With those two in the deck you're actually incentivized to want Snek at that point, and then you also want to consider like Abzan Charm, and you need probably 2 of each (Spike / Thune), and it just ended up looking like a mess. I want there to be something there, but I don't see how to make it work just yet. It's nice that having a Ballista in play now adds infinite damage to the combo, so you aren't just like making infinite life and then waiting to get locked out somehow.

    DRS has been a relative non-issue. Yes, it's annoying. But you have a zillion removal spells to get rid of the parasite, you can name it on Therapy if you're really worried about it, and you can also just accept that Traverse is going to be Lay of the Land for a while and play a normal game of magic until the mid-late game, when you crack a Deed and delirium is super on (and DRS is super dead), and then you have 2-3 extra copies of whatever you want in your deck. Nothing says delirium needs to be turbo-online -- I think that's one of the core issues that we've always had when thinking about the card. We assume it needs to be online on turn 2 or turn 3 to function, and that isn't true at all. It's fine whenever it comes online.

    Quote Originally Posted by JackaBo View Post
    I like this deck!
    But isn't the maindeck a little weak to combo decks. Versus fair you got 4 Ballista plus Jailer and 4 Traverse to fetch them, 5 spot removal, 2 Lilianas and 4 sweepers. That's a ton!
    Verus combo you got only 4 Therapies and Kambal plus traverse to fetch it. Fetching a Kambal with traverse is maybe possible on turn..4? That's too late versus many combo decks.
    At least a Teeg can come down on turn 3 via GSZ. I actually like kambal, but maybe it's too slow for what it's there for. Perhabs some removals could be Collective brutality, to be more flexible? The minus effect have a little synergy with Liliana and Ballista.
    Also, why do you run Push instead of path/swords. The deck seems rather invested in white (WW in Suntitan and Jailer) and you already got plenty of ways to deal with weenies. Anglers and cheated-in-fattys you have no real answer for.
    So, some of this is because I'm the person who built the deck. I always, always bias heavily towards fair decks: I assume that I will play against more fair decks most tournaments than I will combo decks, and I want to win game 1 against fair decks whenever remotely possible, because vs fair, the games can grind on for quite a while in Nic Fit in general. Winning game 1 puts a tremendous amount of pressure on the opponent postboard, which is a nice hole that I really like forcing people into. I also don't think it's possible for Nic Fit to really have a 'good' matchup vs combo game 1 anyway, so I don't want to weaken my deck overall -- I don't want to end up like a 50% vs the field deck, let's put it that way. I would rather crush fair decks and then have sideboard to shore up combo, with a couple extra grinding tools to sub in when shaving Vets/Therapies in fair matchups.

    Theoretically, Kambal can be tutored+played on curve fairly easy: you fetch, therapy or traverse for basic, ballista for 0-1: tada, you're online. Tutor him on turn 2 and slam him on turn 3.

    Basically, here's my take on Teeg: I played this deck in an event with Teeg in the maindeck. He was never relevant. Again. Still. This is considering that I played vs Aluren twice (which is more than I've played against Aluren in my life previously, but that's besides the point). I have fallen into this maindeck Teeg trap more times than I care to count, and he is never, ever relevant for me. Kambal is always relevant. He's slower than Teeg, and only tutorable by half as many tutors, yes. I agree. He's also not as much of a "lock" as Teeg is. But he's good vs almost anything. He sucks vs tribal decks, I guess -- but Delver? Awesome. Control? He forces them to remove him asap, and if they have to dig for the removal, they're going to fucking feel it. Midrange? He makes Punishing Fire unhappy, that's for sure...especially if you start recurring him.

    Teeg is better vs combo, yes. But he's so much worse against literally everything that isn't combo that I just cannot justify him as a maindeck card. It's possible he should be in the flex spot in the sideboard, sure...that I could accept.

    Brutality is generally underwhelming unless you're Reanimator, I think. The concept is right, but I don't think the card is.

    Cheated-in fatties are probably going to kill me regardless because fuck reanimator and show and tell -- Angler I'm not super worried about because I'll just block it forever. That said, you probably aren't wrong that they should be StP...at least a couple of them. The nice thing about Push is that it's online a lot easier without wrecking your manabase -- the white is generally designed to be online in later turns unless you're vs combo, in which case you can fetch whatever you want. But if you're vs Delver, there's a very real cost to having to fetch a Savannah to StP their guy instead of a basic Swamp for Push. It's hard to say what's correct, honestly.

    ---------

    These are all good thoughts *except Mephidross Vampire* -- keep them coming!

  14. #2074
    The crazy nastyass honey badger

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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Arianrhod View Post
    Qasali is probably a good idea. I like Karador, but am always skeptical of actually turning him on. How much does he typically cost, in your experience?

    ---------

    These are all good thoughts *except Mephidross Vampire* -- keep them coming!
    5 or 6 mana, typically. Dryad Arbor is useful here.

    And Vampire was an awesome idea, dammit!

    Indulge in the cool stuff!

    As for the Gearhulk, how can an 8/8 trample be underwhelming? Games ended too fast or something?
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  15. #2075

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    I was prodded to record some Nyx Fit matches, I'll try to upload some this weekend. Have 1 more match left in my league, so far 2-2 beating Ruby Storm and Czech Pile, losing to TES and UR Delver.

    How's this for a game 3 on-the-play opener against combo?

    Verdant Catacombs, Cavern of Souls, Veteran Explorer, Thoughtseize, Cabal Therapy, Collective Brutality, Lost Legacy

    LL by turn 3, with FOUR discard spells preceding it

  16. #2076
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    5 or 6 mana, typically. Dryad Arbor is useful here.

    And Vampire was an awesome idea, dammit!

    Indulge in the cool stuff!

    As for the Gearhulk, how can an 8/8 trample be underwhelming? Games ended too fast or something?
    It was just never necessary. Ishkanah and a 6-drop is really all the top-end you need. I can't really adequately express how insane Ishkanah was. I'd rather use the slot to run something else to avoid losing before the grind takes over (he became Thragtusk).

  17. #2077

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Arianrhod View Post
    I dunno. I think there's something here. It's definitely not as "easy to find" as Scapewish or Sneak was, though. Any reasonable help is appreciated.
    I've been messing with a semi Delirium build in Modern. Like you, I hit on Walking Ballista as a strong enabler. I've considered it off and on in Legacy but in a Ranger of Eos shell rather than in a Delirium shell.

    I'm a little skeptical on Sun Titan, I don't like that it can't profitably return a Walking Ballista. But, I do agree that Ishkanah is pretty good. I hadn't even considered the Karakas abuse aspect of it.

    I'm still a little skeptical of Delirium due to DRS being able to eat everything, but the idea seems worth exploring. GSZ and Therapy take sorceries out of our GY though which makes it harder. I think this would be a case for fewer GSZ's.

    I'll think a bit and post a list in a little while after I get some more work done. I do want to throw out there though, that I think you're using the wrong Liliana. This is a case where we care about our GY, so LotV's ability to let you choose what goes to the GY to power up your other cards is highly relevant.

  18. #2078
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Brael View Post
    I've been messing with a semi Delirium build in Modern. Like you, I hit on Walking Ballista as a strong enabler. I've considered it off and on in Legacy but in a Ranger of Eos shell rather than in a Delirium shell.

    I'm a little skeptical on Sun Titan, I don't like that it can't profitably return a Walking Ballista. But, I do agree that Ishkanah is pretty good. I hadn't even considered the Karakas abuse aspect of it.

    I'm still a little skeptical of Delirium due to DRS being able to eat everything, but the idea seems worth exploring. GSZ and Therapy take sorceries out of our GY though which makes it harder. I think this would be a case for fewer GSZ's.

    I'll think a bit and post a list in a little while after I get some more work done. I do want to throw out there though, that I think you're using the wrong Liliana. This is a case where we care about our GY, so LotV's ability to let you choose what goes to the GY to power up your other cards is highly relevant.
    It's possible. I will note that I don't own and cannot currently afford LotVs, so if we go down that road, I can't really follow atm. I do quite like Last Hope, though -- she's good at picking off Baleful Strixes, Snapcasters, and Cliques, and being able to get extra regrowth abilities on Witnesses or dead/discarded bombs is really nice...especially since she doesn't target with her -2, which makes her hard to disrupt.

    It's possible Ranger of Eos should be in this shell -- that's a pretty strong option. I've also been itching to mess with Trinket Mage, since Mage coming with a Ballista stapled to it seems nuts. But at the same time, we lost Top, which was like the golden reason to run Trinket Mage...so...meh.

    Sun Titan + Deed is still as good as it ever was, except now we can tutor the Titan reasonable. Same with E.Wit or Tracker, or Nissa, etc. Titan is especially good with Tracker since he can bring back lands to generate clues if you already have a Tracker out -- which has historically been one of the problems with Tracker in non-blue lists.

    I've been hitting Delirium (even against DRS decks) with this shell pretty consistently, so I don't know that you need to cut Zeniths. I rather like that once you hit midgame, you have 8 tutors + the bombs themselves to topdeck when you end up in that situation. Also, nothing says we need to flash Therapy back depending on the game state and opponent. Or even that you need to use Sorcery as a card type for it -- land, creature, artifact, instant happens pretty commonly too.

    I dunno. I just want to call attention to this and get some more ideas flowing on it. Right now, I don't feel like there's a strong Scape/Sneak/Pod/etc version that's function and competitive with the range of tier 1 decks currently, and I don't like that. I'm not willing to say that Nic Fit is dead without Top -- there's too many cards legal and too many different deckbuilding philosophies to try for it not to evolve somehow. We've survived everything thrown at us to this point, we can survive this too.

  19. #2079

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Sigh, post got eaten. So I'm going to be brief on the retype.

    Delirium requires a variety of cards, this goes double with DRS. Using Modern as a guide, and keeping in mind that they don't have DRS to deal with, here's the numbers I would suggest for each card type that needs to find it's way to the GY:
    Lands - 9
    Creatures - 4 or 5
    Instant - 7
    Sorcery - 8
    Artifact - 3
    Enchantment - 1
    Planeswalker - 4
    Tribal - 1

    So lets go through those, piece by piece:
    Lands - Fetchlands are obvious, but remember Crop Rotation will also put cards into the GY if land slots are tight.
    Creatures - Walking Ballista pulls double duty, but we also have Shriekmaw and Qasali Pridemage to round out the self sacrifice. Remember that creatures are actually hard to get into the GY in the early turns because StP exiles.
    Instant - We have an excess of instants, especially if Crop Rotation is used for the ability to fill two card types (in addition to it's other benefits). Likely a bottleneck on what we choose to include/exclude
    Sorcery - I'm assuming Traverse in these numbers, but also not counting Therapy or GSZ. I think Traverse has to fully replace GSZ here and then we need 7ish additional sorceries. Nights Whisper can count for a couple, as can Pulse/Vindicate. This slot is probably going to require some creativity though.
    Artifact - Ballista covers it all if necessary, but I've been having good results in Modern with a Ballista/Nihil Spellbomb/Engineered Explosives package alongside Glissa. Perhaps worth considering. Verdouous Gearhulk might make a solid 6 drop too.
    Enchantment - Might be able to slide on this. Out of the SB I like Seal of Primordium.
    Planeswalker - Liliana of the Veil is excellent here. +1 to build Delirium types and attack the opponents hand, -2 to gain CA, reasonable ultimate, good type to see die. Also noteworthy is Garruk Relentless since he dies often.
    Tribal - Might slide on this too, nothing good is coming to mind right away.

    If we assume 22 lands, and hold to that skeleton with remaining slots being threats that gives us
    Lands - 22
    Creatures - 16
    Instant - 7
    Sorcery - 8
    Artifact - 3
    Planeswalker - 4

    16 minus 3 Ballista, a Pridemage, and 4 Vets leaves 8 big threats. Which makes me think this is a build that's going to want to go tall with resilient cards. Maybe Thune/Spike Feeder combo.

    Edit: Not going to rewrite that, lets pretend I didn't forget Pernicious Deed is an easy to sacrifice enchantment though.

  20. #2080

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Kalonian hydra may be good in here too in addition to gearhulk. It's not immediate but can cause some silliness with ballistas.

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