I run 2 main 1 side. When I move to more land oriented SB plans like bringing in Karakas or using DD I bring in the extra. Having a couple copies MB is nice though since it makes your opening hands more explosive.Originally Posted by amppyou
Hello Nic Fit Veterans (see what I did there?)
I am happy to report that I got a 5-0 tonight with a straight BG version of this deck, that I built using some inspiration from this thread and little bit of theorycrafting. Yesterday I had a 4-1 league in the morning and a 1-3 drop in the afternoon/evening. I usually play relatively unfair decks so this was me branching out a bit. You guys all seem like fun-loving people so I'm just going to share my decklist and some thoughts on the deck:
Decklist:
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
3 Swamp
4 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Treetop Village (I like this because it can kill Jace, the Mind Sculptor from Crop Rotation)
1 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Tireless Tracker (weakest slot in the maindeck IMO)
1 Master of the Wild Hunt (destroys BUG decks and Delver decks, good complement to Thrun)
1 Thrun, the Last Troll (good for trolling people :D )
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Nissa, Vital Force (Quite honestly, this is the best reason to ramp both players. I am astounded by how powerful this card has been)
3 Sensei's Divining Top (would not play less than 3, I could see playing a 4th)
2 Thoughtseize
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Crop Rotation
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Pernicious Deed
SB:
2 Surgical Extraction (necessary)
4 Sphere of Resistance (necessary)
2 Carpet of Flowers (necessary)
2 Duress (necessary)
2 Choke (seems ok?)
1 Pithing Needle
1 Garruk Relentless (is this necessary? Would I rather have another card for Miracles / combo?)
1 Thragtusk (burn? considering Obstinate Baloth)
There are some slots that I am less sure of, such as Tireless Tracker and some of the sideboard. However, I have been impressed with the Crop Rotation package - it usually finds Phyrexian Tower to super-ramp with Veteran Explorer into Nissa or Green Sun for one of my stupid 4 CMC guys. Nissa has blown me away every time I cast it - tomorrow morning I will record a Youtube video of the best Nissa usage I have ever dreamed of. I would play 3, but legend rule... :(
Thrun is very hard to answer, particularly with Karakas. Master of the Wild Hunt cleans up board states and makes up for having fewer creatures in the deck in general.
I'm pretty sure Surgical Extraction is necessary in the sideboard, which makes me want to play more discard in the sideboard also, even spreading to 2 Thoughtseize maindeck.
Obviously most of this information is obvious for you guys because you've played it more than I have. I would love to hear some input into my choices, particularly with my reducing the curve considerably to top off at 4 CMC creatures and 2 Nissas for the most part. I cut Sylvan Library after the 1st league because it doesn't interact well with Deed.
If you're wondering how I produce blue mana, I copy my opponent's Island with Thespian's Stage
My Youtube and Twitch usernames are DNSolver.
I am the Legacy metagame:
-2016 Eternal Weekend Europe won by BR Reanimator (I wrote the primer)
-2016 Eternal Weekend North America won by Turbo Dark Depths (I write about and develop the winning version specifically)
-Refiner of Hogaak Depths.
I brought Stryfo's Dragon Fit to my local tonight (see top of page 7 for reference). We had 14 players I believe, for 4 rounds, and I was able to go undefeated. Used his exact main except for a Trop Island instead of U Sea since I didn't have one available. Really need to trade for one though, that land is pretty huge to rounding out the manabase. My side was pretty close to his current online list (2 Lost Legacy to replace Flusterstorm and Glen Elendra, 2nd Thoughtseize in place of Tabernacle).
Round 1 - Infect
Game 1 I have 3 Cabal Therapies plus a Strix in my opener...he mulls and I'm able to shred his hand quickly since he had double Invigorate and draws a second Blossoming Defence. Jace comes down not much longer and he scoops since he has nothing available except a single Hierarch.
Game 2 I flood very heavily while he gets 2 Hierarchs out and goes unimpeded. Eventually I topdeck Raven's Crime and make him discard 3 times that turn, but it is not enough to close out the game with my Deathrites. Didn't see much besides lands :/ But I also topdecked a Therapy and named very poorly right before I died, so there's that.
Game 3 Again Therapies help take out his hand of double Glistener. He has Surgical but misses using it early, and I get two more Therapies due to it. Strix comes down and again does fabulous blocking duty. Intution gets pierced but allows for followup Jace and then Deed. Brainstorming gets me another Deed and Decay so I'm pretty set and he scoops.
Gawd Strix is so good.
Round 2 - Pox
Game 1 I get out an early Deathrite which eats an edict, and then a 2nd, and my notes show opp at 18DRS, 16DRS, 14DRS, 12DRS...you get the idea. Intuition for lands and Loam is great to seal the deal.
Game 2 was very close since he had two early factories and a Crucible. I get down to 10 and get out Ob Nixilis. Next few turns are careful with me using Pulse to gain life, draw some cards with Ob Nix, then get Garruk out which has a token and himself save me some more life. Intuition for Loam+Haven later and I'm able to put Ojutai on the board (at which point I'm dead to an edict effect), Deed comes down which is more insurance, then later I have the mana to crack Haven and play Dromoka, and ult Ob Nix which seals it. He shows me a hand of 3 Urborg which is sad - Liliana at any point would have easiliy given him the win there.
Round 3 - BR Reanimator
Game 1 This guy is a little inexperienced with the deck. He puts Tidespout into play T1 I believe, but uses his entire hand to do it. I get out land, DRS. He topdecks a land (yay!), and I get out my second land. His turn I take another hit and cast Intuition, picking 3 Jaces to hopefully bounce the thing. For some reason he doesn't cast his Entomb at any time to bounce my land or DRS, so I get to cast Jace (which he decides to bounce...). He scoops shortly after due to DRS and Jace available while he doesn't have anything in hand.
Game 2 I'm able to strip his Animate Deads from the deck, but he gets out a Grisel anyway due to Reanimate. I don't have too many draws, but he goes to 2 to draw cards. I topdeck a Lost Legacy and then accidentally name Entomb instead of Exhume (meant to say Exhume). Next turn he swings, draws, and then uses 2 Exhumes to get more stuff into play :(
Game 3 I get a nice Therapy hit naming Entomb, and he struggles to put any fatty into his yard for the rest of the game. I have the time to land Strix, DRS and then Ob Nix. He Reanimates my Ojutai but is dead to DRS drains the following turn.
Round 4 - Lands
Game 1 He has the nut Exploration, Gamble for Loam, Ports etc which locks me out. I kept a bad 7 with 2 Jace, 1 Top, couple poor lands.
Game 2 He has an early Marit Lage from a natural Stage + crop rotation. I have played 2 Strixes...they both end up chump blocking and I even waste a Deed to kill his only Mox Diamond to prevent my second Strix from being PFired. My last turn available I topdeck To the Slaughter and he scoops after I cast it and then Surgical the Depths.
Game 3 Was long and grindy, he has Loam and PFire but no Exploration. My own Loam shows up early and I'm able to get light use out of it with a couple Verdant Catacombs. My two early Vets are just attacking in each turn, and I manage to find To the Slaughter right as he finds Depths. That card has beaten the guy multiple times and I probably didn't even need to have it in hand, just bluff keeping black mana open...anyway I keep getting damage in with Vets and a Strix, using Jace and DRS to eat up his PFires. Eventually he gets to 3 and has to kill my Vets, which gives me the mana I needed to cast Ugin in hand to finish it. He should have just made the token way earlier, forced the Slaughter out of my hand, and then Loam the depths back and try again...he told me afterward that he was afraid that I had both Slaughter and Surgical early on (it wasn't until very late that I Intuitioned for 3 Surgicals...) He also could have been more aggressive with his Wastelands but allowed me instead to keep 2-3 duals available.
Deck seems solid. Intuition is simply outstanding and I did not miss Green Sun's Zenith at all. The walkers provide plenty of power and the Intution/Loam/Haven/Dragons grind plan is very flexible. I look forward to further testing with it. Sorry if the game details seems a bit unfocused or rushed - I try to scribble some general notes as I can but this was my first time playing the list and I needed to concentrate.
Awesome list. Have you thought about adding 5+ CMC creature to close out games now with Fatal Push being a thing?
Glad to hear BG working out for others. Our lists are similar in a lot of ways, and different in others. I completely agree with your assessment of Nissa but I think you're wrong about Tracker. I went for more of a CA focused build and Tracker has been great. I play two main in addition to Bobs. Your curve is slightly higher than mine, but Bob would still work in it. With only 11 creatures though I wonder if GSZ is what you want.
At what point, if you add dark confidants and lower your curve, aren't you ruining the entire reason veteran explorer is in the deck?
My opinion has always bee veteran explorer/cabal therapy into Deed into "insert recursion engine or overcosted card advantage engine/unanswerable threat".
I read the NicFit posts regularly and I think it is the better BG home for GSZ as you don't want to run 4x fatties but need to be able to answer or trump as many strategies as possible. I have been playing BG with DRS over Veteran Explorer and I think I have the better home for Dark Confidant and Tracker with the lower CC and greater velocity off the start.
I do really love your use of crop rotation and I will experiment with it after my current obsession, Noxious Revival, dies down.
"eggs... why'd it have to be eggs"
Probably at the point where I'm not using the ramp. I still play a bunch of 5 cost cards if you include GSZ for X=4. The difference is that I have a lower curve, so when the acceleration plan doesn't happen, I can still do things. When the mana ramp works I get to do more things rather than bigger ones.
This is basically Brael's concept summed up. Rather than invest his mana into several big things, he would rather use his mana to generate multiple smaller things. Just a slightly different philosophy -- certainly no less valid. I've wanted to look into something similar myself, as a backup plan for when/if Top gets banned. At that point, I think that the best versions of the deck will have lower curves with Night's Whispers and other card draw options (Courser's stock probably goes way up, as well) -- rather than relying on Top's filtering to find the right mix of land, removal, and bomb, we'll need to just draw as many cards as possible and leverage our mana advantage across multiple play per turn.
Hi all,
Lately, I have been impressed with Tireless Tracker in my Lands sb, and was looking for a good shell to play her maindeck. I played BG Nic Fit a long time ago, and decided to build this shell around her.
I'm planning to take the following to the next small tournament coming week:
Creatures (17)
1 Thragtusk
1 Eternal Witness
1 Wall of Blossom
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Primeval Titan
3 Tireless Tracker
4 Veteran Explorer
Spells (22)
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Fatal Push
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
Lands (21)
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Windswept Heath
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Bayou
3 Swamp
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Forest
I think you guys can see where I'm getting at: take full advantage of TT, and also play the 'basic Nic Fit Game'.
The list is far from ideal, though, as I'm still missing some cards:
- Meren of Clan Nel Toth replacing Thragtusk (will take a slot in the sb) or Wickerbough Elder (will be replaced with Reclamation Sage in the sb)
- Sakura-Tribe Elder replacing a Wall of Blossom (I think, because of the better synergy with Tireless Tracker)
- Reclamation Sage (if I'm to swap Wickerbough Elder) in the sb.
- Ulvenwald Hydra replacing one Primeval Titan, as the big bomb.
I'm also considering dropping the 3rd SDT for a 4th Abrupt Decay. Also, maybe I should drop the Undiscovered Paradise, but I like it so far (positive results after testing -being able to make a landdrop each turn-, but probably too cute)
I think this is probably blasphemy, but Pernicious Deed and Clue-tokens aren't exactly synergy. Brainfart: dropping both in favor of the 4th Abrupt Decay, and 4th Fatal Push (and keeping the 3rd SDT in the process). PD would have some slots in the sb, though. I do like the possibility to reset the board. What do you guys think?
About Fatal Push: getting Revolt is pretty easy. Crack a Fetch or Clue-token, return Undiscovered Paradise, draw a card with SDT, use Pernicious Deed, or sac a Veteran Explorer, it all works.
I'm also not sure about the sb. Perhaps you guys have some input?
So, don't hold back: is the list too cute? Still going to test it 'live', though (even though the list isn't perfect)
"Be it ever so crumbled, there's no place like home."
RGCL (GQ)
Youtube-playlist dedicated to RGCL
Primeval 2 is better than Ulvenwald -- Ulvenwald not having evasion or protection is a deal-breaker. Just being huge isn't good enough. Not running Nissa VF in this type of deck, in particular, seems criminal. Add Nissas, and if you still feel like you need more wincons, consider splashing in a Kessig Wolf Run or a Sigarda (Kessig is easier but loses to Wasteland or Ghost Quarter).Hi all,
Lately, I have been impressed with Tireless Tracker in my Lands sb, and was looking for a good shell to play her maindeck. I played BG Nic Fit a long time ago, and decided to build this shell around her.
I'm planning to take the following to the next small tournament coming week:
Creatures (17)
1 Thragtusk
1 Eternal Witness
1 Wall of Blossom
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Primeval Titan
3 Tireless Tracker
4 Veteran Explorer
Spells (22)
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Fatal Push
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
Lands (21)
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Windswept Heath
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Bayou
3 Swamp
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Forest
I think you guys can see where I'm getting at: take full advantage of TT, and also play the 'basic Nic Fit Game'.
The list is far from ideal, though, as I'm still missing some cards:
- Meren of Clan Nel Toth replacing Thragtusk (will take a slot in the sb) or Wickerbough Elder (will be replaced with Reclamation Sage in the sb)
- Sakura-Tribe Elder replacing a Wall of Blossom (I think, because of the better synergy with Tireless Tracker)
- Reclamation Sage (if I'm to swap Wickerbough Elder) in the sb.
- Ulvenwald Hydra replacing one Primeval Titan, as the big bomb.
I'm also considering dropping the 3rd SDT for a 4th Abrupt Decay. Also, maybe I should drop the Undiscovered Paradise, but I like it so far (positive results after testing -being able to make a landdrop each turn-, but probably too cute)
I think this is probably blasphemy, but Pernicious Deed and Clue-tokens aren't exactly synergy. Brainfart: dropping both in favor of the 4th Abrupt Decay, and 4th Fatal Push (and keeping the 3rd SDT in the process). PD would have some slots in the sb, though. I do like the possibility to reset the board. What do you guys think?
About Fatal Push: getting Revolt is pretty easy. Crack a Fetch or Clue-token, return Undiscovered Paradise, draw a card with SDT, use Pernicious Deed, or sac a Veteran Explorer, it all works.
I'm also not sure about the sb. Perhaps you guys have some input?
So, don't hold back: is the list too cute? Still going to test it 'live', though (even though the list isn't perfect)
Undiscovered Paradise seems amazing in this deck and I'd definitely leave it in for a couple tournaments before re-evaluating. That's some pretty cool tech.
I'd want to test out Titania, Protector of Argoth and as the above poster said Nissa. You could also think about more utility lands and maybe even DD combo. Check out Brael's land config.Hi all,
Lately, I have been impressed with Tireless Tracker in my Lands sb, and was looking for a good shell to play her maindeck. I played BG Nic Fit a long time ago, and decided to build this shell around her.
I'm planning to take the following to the next small tournament coming week:
Creatures (17)
1 Thragtusk
1 Eternal Witness
1 Wall of Blossom
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Primeval Titan
3 Tireless Tracker
4 Veteran Explorer
Spells (22)
2 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Hymn to Tourach
3 Fatal Push
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
Lands (21)
1 Undiscovered Paradise
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Windswept Heath
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Bayou
3 Swamp
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Forest
I think you guys can see where I'm getting at: take full advantage of TT, and also play the 'basic Nic Fit Game'.
The list is far from ideal, though, as I'm still missing some cards:
- Meren of Clan Nel Toth replacing Thragtusk (will take a slot in the sb) or Wickerbough Elder (will be replaced with Reclamation Sage in the sb)
- Sakura-Tribe Elder replacing a Wall of Blossom (I think, because of the better synergy with Tireless Tracker)
- Reclamation Sage (if I'm to swap Wickerbough Elder) in the sb.
- Ulvenwald Hydra replacing one Primeval Titan, as the big bomb.
I'm also considering dropping the 3rd SDT for a 4th Abrupt Decay. Also, maybe I should drop the Undiscovered Paradise, but I like it so far (positive results after testing -being able to make a landdrop each turn-, but probably too cute)
I think this is probably blasphemy, but Pernicious Deed and Clue-tokens aren't exactly synergy. Brainfart: dropping both in favor of the 4th Abrupt Decay, and 4th Fatal Push (and keeping the 3rd SDT in the process). PD would have some slots in the sb, though. I do like the possibility to reset the board. What do you guys think?
About Fatal Push: getting Revolt is pretty easy. Crack a Fetch or Clue-token, return Undiscovered Paradise, draw a card with SDT, use Pernicious Deed, or sac a Veteran Explorer, it all works.
I'm also not sure about the sb. Perhaps you guys have some input?
So, don't hold back: is the list too cute? Still going to test it 'live', though (even though the list isn't perfect)
Hi! I'm kind of new to legacy (new to playing it, but I've followed it for quite a while) and I've been building up a pseudo-budget (no duals) Nic Fit BUG deck and I'd like to share it to get some thoughts and advice...
Lands (22)
2 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Verdant Catacomb
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
1 Treetop Village
2 Wasteland
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Thespian Stage
1 Dark Depths
Creatures (12)
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Polukranos, World Eater
1 Thragtusk
1 The Gitrog Monster
1 Primeval Titan
Other spells (26)
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Golgari Charm
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Brainstorm
2 Intuition
4 Crop Rotation
1 Life from the Loam
I was previously running Hymn to Tourach instead of Crop Rotation and I liked the possibility of flashing back Cabal Therapy on turn 2 and go fetch two swamps into Hymn to Tourach and rip the opponent's hand apart but the deck felt like it needed help closing games so I decided to emphasize on the Dark Depths combo adding Crop Rotation (I also read on the primer that Hymn wasn't recommended to not overextend discard spells and make the deck a more powerful topdecker).
I was happy to come here and see @DNSolver trying Crop Rotation out too, though with more grindy targets. Has anoyne tried running the Dark Depths combo in Nic Fit before? I love having Primeval Titan in the deck so if the game drags on I can go and Zenith him and grab the two lands. The intuition pack lets me go and fetch the combo pretty early and if need be you can pile 3 Cabal Therapies and be done with their hand. I remember reading some discussion about Intuition, but can't find it now...
Sideboard is still a work in progress but I will probably be running some number of Vendilion Clique and mostly anti-combo cards as it seems that the deck is powerful against fair strategies.
Feedback would be appreciated! :D
I forgot about Nissa VF, thanks for reminding me
Titiana is a 5cmc worth to consider. I'm not to fond of DD-combo in this deck, although I can see running both DD and TS as a one-of in my sb (also some nice synergy with Titiana). About utility-lands: perhaps a Urborg to make the fetchland tap for mana?
"Be it ever so crumbled, there's no place like home."
RGCL (GQ)
Youtube-playlist dedicated to RGCL
Check out the primer, there's a variant called SE Fit that we came up with about a year ago that I've been playing. In particular, the GB builds have been using Crop Rotation with Dark Depths as a sideboard plan. Others have tried to combo with just one of each card and a Primeval Titan to fetch both, my plan has been a little different.
Unless you already have the Depths though, I wouldn't worry too much about this plan. The biggest upgrade you can make for your deck is Bayou's so I would put your budget towards that first.
Depths combo has been tried a few times, the general consensus is that it's okay but better in a deck that can afford to play Loam (and if you go further down that route, you're probably better off just playing a dedicated Loam deck). The current intuition/rotation builds look reasonable, though, but the above was the consensus after the previous rounds of testing.
That's why DD isn't my plan A, it's a SB plan against decks where you don't have time to play a fair game.
DD is good with Crop Rotation. I'm not a fan of it with Primeval Titan though.
The utility package I prefer with Crop Rotation is:
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Bojuka Bog
And in the SB
1 Karakas
3 Dark Depths
2 Thespian's Stage
If you search back you can find some SB plans I made for everything. The MB Bojuka Bog has been particularly good, because it has freed me from Scavenging Ooze in favor of a more aggressive 2 drop.
Thanks for the quick replies!!
And what are your thoughts on Polukranos as a Zenitheable fatty that can wipe small creatures?
Right now, with the upcoming of Fatal Push, I am starting to doubt of it's viabilty more and more... Do you think that this deck doesn't need Zenitheable removal being that I'm running 3 Deeds and 3 Decays? Are there any better green creatures that perform a similar role? I've seen Master of the Wild Hunt, but Polukranos doesn't die to Lightning Bolt and packs quite a punch while Master seems grindier and slower...
Dies to removal is quite a lackluster argument against Master as Polukranos monstrous trigger on the stack + removal from opponent is a more massive blowout. You have to weight the merits of both and what you want the creature to do. IMHO Master is leagues better as he snowballs out of control while Polukranos is just a dumb fatty with a 1 shot removal effect that is extremely mana taxing (not to mention he sucks at removing Baleful Strix which is flying everywhere).
The best Zenithable removal IMHO is Huntmaster at 4cc.
5 CMC creature answered by Lightning Bolt. Danger Of Cool Things, TM.
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