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Thread: [Primer] Nic Fit

  1. #2761

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by pettdan View Post
    There's a reason we are discussing one million versions in this thread, and it is at least partly due to there not being a specific best version. I suggest you start with a version that you are interested in, that fits your playstyle, that is close to what you have in cards and close to what you aim to play in the future or in parallell. So if you have the blue lands and think that version seems fun, I would start there. If you have zero cards, I would probably start with a simple, straightforward list like a Rhino-list.
    100% this.

    BUG is the one that imo is least defined. Million ways you can build it.

    Too many variations, and this list is just myself cherry picking the versions that stick out to me as having potential.

    BG
    Lower cmc value (bobs, ranger of eos -> ballista/endless one, crop rotation)
    Helm combo (I experimented with this, it seemed alright)

    Junk
    Standard w/ rhinos/general creatures
    Nyx - Academy Rector (evo leap, 3-5 winning enchantments)

    Jund
    Sneak Attack
    Scapeshift

    Bug
    Value-creature centric (strix, drs, tracker, meren, etc)
    Walkers (Liliana/Jace/Nissa)
    Emerge (elder deep fiend list from Isvan)
    Intuition package

    Not to mention the variations that blur between colors, such as various walker packages, crop rotation, natural order, birthing pod, excavator?, etc. Sometimes wish we had a separate thread for at least bug/jund/junk but I doubt that will ever happen. Would really help to hone in on good ideas and deck direction if we had enough activity in each.

    As for pros/cons, that'd take more time to lay out. All are going to generally prey on fair decks. Against certain metas different ones will shine. Nyx for instance, is great against Lands due to swords/lingering souls/hardness of enchantment lock. Burn is going to have trouble against a rhino junk list that has collective brutalities. Helm is lolzy if you expect a ton of graveyard-abusing stuff. Sneak/Scapeshift have quite a bit of inevitability and scape has versatility with its wishes. Bug when packing brainstorm can handle various combo easier due to being able to find sideboard stuff quickly.

  2. #2762

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Nosdar View Post
    Has anyone seen Mengucci's list? I really fell in love with this :)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhKS46IORx8&t=4165s
    Look back a bit, there's some conversation on it when it came out. Conclusion was it was a bad list that was played poorly.

    I'm glad that he makes Legacy content since so few do these days, but his playstyle really only works if he's playing draft decks or if he's using the cantrip shell to compensate for a bunch of bad plays. What I mean by this, is that he very often chooses lines that rely on getting specific topdecks. Then he loses when he doesn't get them. Simply put, his lines are too specific and when he loses the crutch of Ponder/Brainstorm to tie them together he loses almost all of his games.

  3. #2763

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by square_two View Post
    100% this.

    BUG is the one that imo is least defined. Million ways you can build it.
    The problem with BUG that I've always run into is that blue is a really parasitic color in Legacy, if you're going to play it, it needs to be your main color. While for us it's usually tertiary or perhaps secondary. This makes the manabase and early curve of BUG very unstable.

  4. #2764

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulysse95 View Post
    I think you forgot Courser of Kruphix. At least 1 instead of a Ramunap, probably a 2 instead of storyteller. Bolt proof, gain life and filtering your draw (a lot with Azuza + Tracker). And you become weakless to grave hate.
    Also, scavenging ground isn't recursive at all and destroy your grave too... (yeah, you sac it in the cost of its ability, then you remove cards from both grave, including grounds)
    My two cents

    Edit: I also didn't saw any dryad arbor... And as DRS is a pleague against your grave land storage, and as you can easily discard any land without too much drawback, I would play collective brutality over thoughtseize
    Legit forgot abour courser. Im a little hesitant to cut an excavator cause theyre important to the game plan but i can see that for a courser.

    Also i didnt know about that interaction with scavenging grounds. It not being recursive makes my entire argument moot. Grounds out, bog in.

    Also i have been talking about this deck on the discord channel. Ive already switched ts for brutality. Good catch tho. I didnt see it at first.

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    On the Lands Matter Fit list: I'm not sure if it'll work. The land toolbox is nice, but you give up on easily being able to pressure your opponent. I expect a lot of durdling and very little of actually doing anything. The problem with a lot of your engine pieces is that they die very easily and do very little on their own. It just seems like a bad place to put yourself in.
    Yeah but this plays a disruption game that fights the plethora of midrange decks that run the format right now. The ideology is that this is a board control deck. I have my top end and trackers which apply pressure. Its true im probably playing 1 too many excavators, but the actual "combo" is only a few pieces.

    Are you suggesting that the list could use some rhinos or something to put a little more hurt on the opponent?

  5. #2765

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    BUG, as mentioned, is still unexplored. So while a list might exist out there that handles everything we want I agree with the above conclusions that the GB rock style of most nic fit decks doesn't compliment blue perfectly.

    For starting with nic fit I would also recommend the rhino shell. It is consistent. 50/50 in most match ups with the percentage going in favor of whoever is experienced with specific match ups. It is also one of the cheaper builds to start, so switching out isn't difficult on a budget.

    The real nice thing I've found about not playing blue is that we get access to some damaging sideboard cards like choke (blood moon if we're in red and not playing scapeshift).

    Given enough discard for combo decks, choke punishes every other deck that isn't D&T/Maverick. It really makes the sideboard look clean.

  6. #2766

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobra_D View Post
    BUG, as mentioned, is still unexplored. So while a list might exist out there that handles everything we want I agree with the above conclusions that the GB rock style of most nic fit decks doesn't compliment blue perfectly.
    I think the big mistake we make with BUG is Baleful Strix. It's such a great value card that it's almost always an auto include. Needing our secondary and tertiary colors early is a huge cost though. I think getting rid of Strix would be a good move. Also, I think Navsi is on the right track with Elder Deep Fiend.

  7. #2767

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Why do people play Swords over Path in the Rector builds?

  8. #2768
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by removedfromgame View Post
    Legit forgot abour courser. Im a little hesitant to cut an excavator cause theyre important to the game plan but i can see that for a courser.

    Also i didnt know about that interaction with scavenging grounds. It not being recursive makes my entire argument moot. Grounds out, bog in.

    Also i have been talking about this deck on the discord channel. Ive already switched ts for brutality. Good catch tho. I didnt see it at first.



    Yeah but this plays a disruption game that fights the plethora of midrange decks that run the format right now. The ideology is that this is a board control deck. I have my top end and trackers which apply pressure. Its true im probably playing 1 too many excavators, but the actual "combo" is only a few pieces.

    Are you suggesting that the list could use some rhinos or something to put a little more hurt on the opponent?
    Not necessarily some, but at least 1. You'll often have the opportunity to go for a cool line, but most of the time just powering out a Rhino and starting to smash face is the most foolproof way to go. Sometimes I hate it, but is just is. Don't go for fancy, go for simple and safe. That simply nets you the highest success rate.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  9. #2769

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Amulet of the HangingLamp View Post
    Why do people play Swords over Path in the Rector builds?
    Because it's a hard lock game. The main goal is to choke your opponnent into submition. The games you will win by being aggressive on life points are anecdotics.
    Give an early extra land can be more problematic.
    Also, you want in priority deal with DRS which is 1Life. It's also true for everything when splendor is on board.

  10. #2770

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Brael View Post
    I think the big mistake we make with BUG is Baleful Strix. It's such a great value card that it's almost always an auto include. Needing our secondary and tertiary colors early is a huge cost though. I think getting rid of Strix would be a good move. Also, I think Navsi is on the right track with Elder Deep Fiend.
    That sounds quite reasonable. Strix is good but not being able to green sun for it was a huge opportunity cost.

    I have picked up the pieces for the elder deep fiend list but at the same time the dino-valakut list was posted and i just played that one. I'll definitely try that one out but I've been playing janky combo recently at locals.

    I want to try it but playing choke seems like the right kind of fun and I missed it over the last month or so.

    Have you worked any more on the dark confidant list or are you pretty comfortable with it currently? It seems to shore up some problem areas but I've grown fond of my rhinos (for better or worse).

  11. #2771

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobra_D View Post
    Have you worked any more on the dark confidant list or are you pretty comfortable with it currently? It seems to shore up some problem areas but I've grown fond of my rhinos (for better or worse).
    There's not really anything else to work on. This school year hasn't shaped up too well for the local legacy scene, and I don't play online. There also hasn't been any new cards that really change things.

    The next thing I want to try is the Jund list that I have but I won't have the cards to play that anywhere outside of Xmage (which I don't put much stock in) for a few months still, at best.

  12. #2772
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2...at-is-nic-fit/

    Podcast episode I was invited to be on is up!

  13. #2773

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Arianrhod View Post
    https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2...at-is-nic-fit/

    Podcast episode I was invited to be on is up!
    I took a listen. I agree with you about Scapeshift (also, tried the build I made... it was horrible, so I need to practice that archetype a bit).

    What's the GB Delirium list you talked about?

  14. #2774
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Arianrhod View Post
    https://www.hipstersofthecoast.com/2...at-is-nic-fit/

    Podcast episode I was invited to be on is up!
    You are a very entertaining guy, and I hope you’ll get invited in more podcasts in the future!
    The episode is very in-depth and interesting, good job to you all!

  15. #2775
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Hey guys fetting into Nic Fit and wondered of there was a Facebook page were everyone can share ideas, lists, results etc....

  16. #2776

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    This thread is that place. There's also a subreddit for the deck.

  17. #2777
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    I think BUG Fit is very unexplored, especially in a traditional shell. Same as Jund Fire is recently unexplored as a strict non-Scapeshift build.

    Something like this is definitely possible:

    4 Veteran Explorer
    2 Noble Hierarch
    2 DRS
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Eternal Witness
    2 Leovold
    1 Spiritmonger
    1 Trygon Predator
    1 Carnage Tyrant
    15

    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    1 Garruk Relentless
    2 Liliana the Last Hope
    5

    3 Pernicious Deed
    2 Abrupt Decay
    3 Fatal Push
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    4 Brainstorm
    1 Sylvan Library
    21



    2 Forest
    2 Island
    2 Swamp
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Misty Rainforest
    2 Phyrexian Tower
    2 Bayou
    2 Tropical Island
    1 Underground Sea
    21

    /////

    3 Flusterstorm
    2 Tsabo's Web
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Golgari Charm
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Thoughtseize
    2 Baleful Strix
    2 Pithing Needle

    And I honestly don't think it would be awful. Your creature threats are worse because Rhino and Sigarda are typically your trumps, but Leo does quite a bit of nonsense on opponents and blasting them with walkers is ridiculous when you're nuking the board with Deeds. Trygon handles having a flyer and destroying stuff if need be, and basically you trade Rhinos for Jaces and such. Your Zeniths are probably worse (but Spiritmonger is a tank, at least, and Carnage Tyrant goes over the top), but it should be able to bridge the gap to landing Jaces.

    I posted my thoughts on P. Fire Jund before.

    However, I'm going to a tournament in the States in a few weeks, and I needed advice on my list. I heard that the podcast that Kev did the cast was down on Rhino, and I agree with Push in the format, Rhino is worse than it was. So, really, what needs to go in that gap?

    I'm thinking of running my Leovold build since it gives you a bit more game against the other blue decks (as well as the mana denial decks, such as DnT and Lands).

    4 Veteran Explorer
    2 Noble Hierarch
    2 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Eternal Witness
    2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    3 Siege Rhino
    1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
    1 Ulvenwald Tracker

    3 Pernicious Deed
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    3 Sylvan Library
    1 Painful Truths
    1 Mirri's Guile
    2 Abrupt Decay
    3 Path to Exile
    1 Elspeth, Knight Errant/Garruk Relentless


    2 Forest
    2 Plains
    2 Swamp
    1 Scrubland
    2 Savannah
    2 Bayou
    1 Tropical Island
    2 Phyrexian Tower
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Windswept Heath
    22

    2 Meddling Mage
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Zealous Persecution
    1 Toxic Deluge
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Back to Basics

    -----

    Noble helps produce blue and push even Vets and other stuff into the red zone a little harder.

    Leo, as explained above.

    Tracker is there as a concession for the long game. I had great success throwing Wolves at big Knights back in the day; I plan to do that again. Also nice for picking off Deathrites on the other side of the table. If Rhino wasn't here as a slot, not sure what I'd play. Suggestions?

    Sideboard-

    Gaddock Teeg is obvious use.

    Mage does a ton of work. Would love to run 3, but no room.

    Back to Basics as the surprise against all the greedy decks and mana denial.

    The rest is decently self explanatory.

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  18. #2778

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    I like your bug lists. I believe moving away from strix and running BS as the only filter is right.
    Other reasons to dip into blue could be TNN and chart a course

  19. #2779

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    I'm planning to run Nyx Fit next legacy night. I run a pretty stock list but 2 mirris main and the deeds+nyx in the board.
    My 4 bombs are Dove, Splendor, Death's hold and Sandwurm. Can anyone convice me to play Cruel Reality instead of Sandwurm?

  20. #2780

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by JackaBo View Post
    I'm planning to run Nyx Fit next legacy night. I run a pretty stock list but 2 mirris main and the deeds+nyx in the board.
    My 4 bombs are Dove, Splendor, Death's hold and Sandwurm. Can anyone convice me to play Cruel Reality instead of Sandwurm?
    I prefer Sandwurm over Cruel Reality unless you run Curse of Misfortunes

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  1. Namtar