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Thread: [Primer] Nic Fit

  1. #3101

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Is it possible to get away with playing GB Nic Fit with only 2 Bayous and 1 Overgrown Tomb? I want to try this list, but I don't think I can justify dropping $400 on two more bayous.

  2. #3102
    The crazy nastyass honey badger

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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Absolutely. You'll want to fetch basics 90% of the time anyway.

    I'd add an extra Windswept Heath though, your manabase is rather small.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  3. #3103

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by hamie96 View Post
    Is it possible to get away with playing GB Nic Fit with only 2 Bayous and 1 Overgrown Tomb? I want to try this list, but I don't think I can justify dropping $400 on two more bayous.
    Replacing abur duals with shocklands simply means that occassionally you will randomly take 2 damage and occassionally this will happen in a matchup or scenario that causes you to lose the game.
    When you ask a question like 'is it possible to get away with this' of course replacing 1 dual with 1 shock will not even matter in the majority of your matches, it's not like you're saying "I want to play RG Lands but I don't own any copies of Life from the Loam, can I get away with this"

    I played RUG Delver for quite a while with 2 Tropical Island and 1 Breeding Pool and I think it affected the outcome of a match maybe 2 or 3 times.

    You just need to decide how frustrated/upset you will be by this occasional setback. If you don't care much then go ahead play Overgrown Tomb, but if you're going to have a tanty and rage about how legacy is pay2win or whatever then maybe wait until you can afford the best cards.

  4. #3104

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    Replacing abur duals with shocklands simply means that occassionally you will randomly take 2 damage and occassionally this will happen in a matchup or scenario that causes you to lose the game.

    You just need to decide how frustrated/upset you will be by this occasional setback. If you don't care much then go ahead play Overgrown Tomb, but if you're going to have a tanty and rage about how legacy is pay2win or whatever then maybe wait until you can afford the best cards.
    I played Rhino Fit for about 6 months with a Bayou replaced for a Tomb. I just wasn't sure how important having 3-4 Bayous is to BG Fit. Likewise, is there anything you would recommend cutting in the list?

  5. #3105

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by hamie96 View Post
    Is it possible to get away with playing GB Nic Fit with only 2 Bayous and 1 Overgrown Tomb? I want to try this list, but I don't think I can justify dropping $400 on two more bayous.
    Yes. 1 Bayou is necessary, 2 helps a lot. If you're on a budget though I think there's a lot of cards you should pick up before the third Bayou. Actually, if you have a Twilight Mire I would play that over Bayou #4 here (and I would do that regardless of price). They're kinda pricey though so don't go out and get one just as a budget substitute if you want the exact list.

  6. #3106
    The crazy nastyass honey badger

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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Meh, I've been running a single Bayou for several years now (while I do own multiple) and it's worked out fine. I do play 10 fetch though.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  7. #3107

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    I like 2 Bayou in 3 color decks, and 3 in 2 color decks. You definitely need 1 Bayou for fetch purposes, but after that they're not as important.

  8. #3108
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Brael View Post
    I like 2 Bayou in 3 color decks, and 3 in 2 color decks. You definitely need 1 Bayou for fetch purposes, but after that they're not as important.
    Agreed with this. Two also gives you insurance against wasteland. Overgrown Tomb isn’t terrible to play with for budget reasons, but there really needs to be at least 1 Bayou if possible.

  9. #3109

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Hey, guys just build the deck (or like something that resembles the deck :D ) yesterday and played in tournament today. I have no experience with legacy, no idea about the metagame (except one player having DnT), deck with some placeholders and budget replacements. And yeah, I havent played 60 card mtg for more than 6 years :D

    The deck:

    24 nonland

    1 skeletal scrying
    2 garruk relentless
    1 nissa vital force
    1 ob nixilis reignited
    3 deed
    1 sylvan library
    3 abrupt decay
    1 hymn
    4 GSZ
    4 cabal therapy
    3 fatal push

    15 creatures

    4 veteran explorer
    1 birds of paradise (should be DRS)
    1 sakura tribe elder
    1 scooze
    1 eternal witness
    3 tireless tracker
    1 thrun
    1 thragtusk
    1 titania
    1 grave titan

    21 lands
    4 bg fetch
    4 wg fetch
    1 phyrexian tower
    1 painland
    1 shockland
    2 fastland
    4 forest
    4 swamp

    SIDEBOARD
    3 massacre
    1 toxic deluge
    1 abrupt decay
    1 fatal push
    1 thragtusk
    2 hymn
    1 duress
    1 thoughtseize
    1 BG liege
    1 hornet queen
    2 golgari charm

    12 players, meta:
    1 nic fit (me), 1 dnt, 1 vial goblins, 2 miracles, 2 show and tell/sneak attack, 1 BG dark depths, 1 griselbrand reanimator-storm (quite insteresting deck), 1 colorless cloudpost stax, 1 bant and I dont remember the 2 more decks.

    round 1: sneak
    g1: cant handle T2 grisel
    g2: dismanting his hand with T1 veteran into T2 duress-double therapy-hymn
    g3: cant handle T3 emrakul

    r2: dark depths
    g1: T2 marit lage
    g2: discarding hexmage into beatings with thragtusks
    g3: T2 marit lage

    r3: sneak
    g1: T2 show and tell into emrakul and grave titan. Atacked with titan and he chumped,
    g2: kept bad hand with no interaction
    g3: T3 show into omniscience, grisel draw milion into sneak with emmy

    r4: reanimator-strom: BR based strom that wants to get grisel into grave, reanimate him, draw cards and kill with burning wish into tendrills
    g1: thought he is a reanimator so I therapied entomb, while he had 2 LEDs, petal and some gas, lost on his t2
    g2: pretty much same as G1 but I didnt have therapy but durress

    r5: miracles
    g1: mull to 5 on play, still draget the game long but lost to JTMS ult in the end (at least i therapied 2 forces on turn 1)
    g2: he was mana screwed but still was able to stabilize at 8 life while I drew 5 lands in a row.
    ____
    Well anyway, hope you dont mind I included the short report into my post. Im looking for some ideashow to improve the maindeck and sideboard for my meta. I suppose Im gonna cut fatal pushes from maindeck and add the 4th decay. Possibly cutting ob nix and one garruk as well. Possibly maindecking the hymns. How would you build SB in meta like this? Pithing needle, lost legacy? I felt like I played too much creature removal than required.. I understand that nic fit is not great in meta full of combo but well... not much I can do about it now

    ps: while I lost all the matches, it was quite fun. Well not the games I lost T2 but still, i quite enjoyed the deck and format as whole
    thanks

  10. #3110

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Kriggy View Post
    Hey, guys just build the deck (or like something that resembles the deck :D ) yesterday and played in tournament today. I have no experience with legacy, no idea about the metagame (except one player having DnT), deck with some placeholders and budget replacements. And yeah, I havent played 60 card mtg for more than 6 years :D
    Doing well with Nic Fit consistently takes a lot of practice. Case in point, with a good build Miracles should be around 50/50, and you should be strongly favored against S&S and Reanimator. Lands is harder, but also totally winnable.

    There's essentially two rules to deck building in Legacy. Either you need to interact with your opponent (this means a mix of discard, removal, and counterspells) or you need a fast and consistent plan that ignores interaction. Nic Fit falls into the first category. The problem here is in the interaction you've chosen to run, so many of your cards are just dead against the decks you most need them in.

    So in your removal, you really need removal that can deal with bigger threats. That means Diabolic Edict and Toxic Deluge. You'll get mixed opinions on the next one but I'm also a fan of Crop Rotation. You're running too many Fatal Push and Abrupt Decay, you've got no way to deal with big threats like Gurmag Angler. On top of that Hymn is putting a real strain on your manabase with 8 basics, a Forest opening (which is your strongest opening) leaves you unable to cast Hymn on time, and additionally you need 19 black sources to cast hymn but your manabase currently only has 16.

    In your manabase you're not only running too few lands, but you've got too many basics and too few fetchable lands. Fastlands have little to no value in Nic Fit and neither do painlands. I would suggest:
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Windswept Heath
    4 Bayou (1 is necessary, you can substitute with Overgrown Tomb if budget is an issue)
    5 Forest
    2 Swamp
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    1 Volrath's Stronghold
    1 Dryad Arbor

    If you take me up on the Crop Rotation suggestion you can subtract a Bayou/Tomb and a Forest for a Karakas and a Bojuka Bog.

    I would suggest a different spell selection. Garruk Relentless is really poorly positioned right now, and Ob Nixilis isn't great either. These are expensive cards that don't win the game, focus on real threats.

    In your sideboard, you're going too deep on some matchups and not deep enough on the others. What is Liege and Hornet Queen supposed to be there for? Use Collective Brutality (better yet, put some of these MB). Massacre is good in just one match, you don't need 3 of them unless you expect a lot of D&T. Your manabase can't cast hymn so you never want to bring it in. And so on. Also, you need a lot of card advantage.

    I've been playing BG for about 15 months now, this is what my list currently looks like, you may want to use it for reference:
    https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/rock-fit-2/

  11. #3111
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    I have a wall of text. Personal stuff up top. Decklist and conclusions below.

    ****** Personal
    I'm putting it out there: this past weekend signified the end of competitive paper Magic for me. I've been considering cashing out over the past 8 months due to a variety of reasons. For those who don't know, I rarely play magic. Where people usually have a ballpark of "playing X times per week", I can count on my hands the number of times I play magic throughout a calendar year. My "local" game store is Mythic Games, located 60-90 minutes away (one way). Add in the situation with rising card prices and not wanting to drive hours upon hours to events and you're left with the writing on the wall.

    The nail in the coffin for me was when Dan (owner) of Mythic publicly announced at the start of the event that he is walking away from Magic the Gathering. Mythic will hold a March monthly and April monthly for legacy before transitioning between owners. Dan has run nothing short of an incredible store for Legacy. He really minimized the douchebaggery and kept folks like me interested in the game over the past few years. Great vibes, great memories. I'm not looking to curtail their business after Dan's departure -- as Mythic will live on! Brett (new owner) said he will not retain the inventory of Duals and other high-end items. So prize support redeeming a vast inventory of legacy staples will likely change. However, Brett actively wants to talk with players about continuing legacy monthly events. If you're in the CNY meta and would still like Mythic to host monthly legacy events, just reach out to him with ideas for prize support.

    Overall, I wanna say thanks to the community. This is what separates Magic esports stuff. I've been incredibly lucky throughout my years playing Magic. I've had the pleasure of meeting so many caring individuals and unique players from vastly different walks of life. GP:NJ will still be one of the coolest experiences: I faced one of the best legacy players of Europe during a qualifier event + played an opponent from China. Fucking awesome a card game tied strangers together like that. I appreciate the connections and friendships made both online and IRL. My uber-talented artist friend Matt Buck taught me the game back in 5th grade (shameless plug he was just on Ink Masters). Chris, thanks for the awesome college parties -- you're one of the funniest guys out there. From kitchen tables to game stores, Josh you've been such a tremendous friend and magic companion. Those in the CNY meta, thanks for being brutally hard to play against lol. Learned a ton of magic and life skills thanks to you all. Some players offered me ideas like borrowing decks if I ever wanted to do another paper tournament. Those are unbelievably nice gestures. Seriously, my paper game is done. I'm getting married in May to an incredible woman. She's supported me playing magic and enjoying the game for what it is...a game. Can't complain about all the fun times I've had with folks. Wish all of you the best! Maybe I build a deck on MTGO or just bullshit cube-drafting using Cockatrice. No need for me to rush into a decision.

    ****** Report
    I didn't like the prospects of playing Maverick at Mythic. It's borderline impossible for that deck to function in the room. Nic Fit would be my last hurrah. I acquired many pieces to go with Jund last minute. Overall I went 3-3-0, so nothing sexy to brag about. However, I had two opportunities to possibly break into the top 8. Just couldn't execute. Dishonor on my family, I know.

    Jund Nic Fit
    4 Veteran Explorer
    2 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
    2 Tireless Tracker
    1 Thrun, the Last Troll
    1 Huntmaster of the Fells
    1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
    1 Regisaur Alpha
    1 Thragtusk
    1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
    1 Primeval Titan
    1 Carnage Tyrant

    2 Abrupt Decay
    4 Cabal Therapy
    2 Collective Brutality
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    1 Kolaghan's Command
    1 Toxic Deluge
    2 Pernicious Deed
    2 Sylvan Library

    1 Garruk Relentless
    2 Nissa, Vital Force

    1 Badlands
    2 Bayou
    3 Forest
    1 Kessig Wolf Run
    2 Mountain
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    2 Swamp
    2 Taiga
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Windswept Heath
    2 Wooded Foothills

    Sideboard
    2 Magus of the Moon
    1 From the Ashes
    3 Price of Progress
    1 Reclamation Sage
    2 Lost Legacy
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Thoughtseize
    1 Gaddock Teeg

    ***
    I couldn't find any other K-commands, so I rolled with only 1. No wish, no scape, just value midrange plays.

    R1 - Win - Eldrazi
    I stole 2 out of 3. Game 1 I get pummel into oblivion by mimic and the 5/5 haste trampler. However, I stabilize VERY low with Carnage Tyrant (c'mon he's a fucking dinosaur) and something else. I effectively clog the board while Scooze gets me back to ~10 life. Next thing you know, I'm playing value stuff and generating momentum while he topdecks lands. Game 2 he's crushing me. Like...I can't get anything going vs his 2/2 mimic, 3/2 reshaper, and 5/5 trampler. I decay the mimic and drop durdles to postpone the inevitable. A PoP brought my opponent down to ~12 and me extremely low. I do the math and drop a veteran while i sit at 8. My plan was to take 5 in the head while preventing all 3 from the reshaper -- pray for a topdeck to find a way out with some larger threat or two midsize beaters the next turn hopefully. On my opponent's turn, he drops the 4th nonbasic land and pays 4 life to dismember veteran --> trigger --> I find a mountain and swamp (1 nonbasic on my end). I have enough to cast a second PoP before my opponent declares attackers. Holy shit I stole the match win. Opponent wasn't even mad.

    R2 - Lose - Reanimator
    He flashes me cards like Azcanta and Exhume while shuffling. Game 1 I keep a hand with Scooze and DRS. He doesn't combo off fast and I have active answers before he can cheat anything out. He's semi-budget, so I felt I had a shot as we sideboard. Game 2 he gets double chancellor of the annex on turn 0. Game 3 only 1 chancellor of the annex, but I am effectively a turn behind him and too slow to interact at all. I don't mind losing, but game 2 and 3 took approximately 5 minutes combined.

    R3 - Win - Grixis Delver
    Very nice guy. We trade games 1 and 2. Game 3 we go to extra time (thanks to a judge-call) and turns. Half the room watches us finish. I had a ridiculous board that outclassed his single DRS, Angler, and Pyro w/ tokens. I had Nissa VF ultimate (Nissa still alive) + Titania + Carnage + a few 5/3 elemental tokens. I think Angler + tokens take out my Carnage (decent trade to remove what little he had to defend with) while my elemental tokens beat down. Titania sits back with a veteran explorer. At some point, he diabolic edicts on my main phase. I sac an animated land (courtesy of Nissa VF) to create a new 5/3 (courtesy of Titania). Veteran dies, which gave me additional card draw and weapons. I did the math right and get him to concede on turn 4 of "extra turns". Handshake concluded a well-fought match. Carnage Tyrant makes Grixis shit bricks.

    R4 - Win - DnT
    Cabal therapy shreds his hand game 1. Game 2 he actually gets the better of me. Game 3 there's solid trading all around, but I really put the pedal to the metal. At the very end he's actually got a threatening board but 2 active deathrites kill him directly before he can deal lethal to me. I had to call judge a few times here on my opponent game-rule violating his own cards. After years of playing with Thalia 1.0, you learn to work around her. He was still learning the deck (very fair situation). I gave some pointers. I got lucky with topdecks in both wins. K-command was sinister. Toxic does its thing. Thoughtseize out the board demolishes this deck OMFG. Never saw deed all 3 games but still got there.

    R5 - Loss - Turbo Depths
    I'm 3-1-0. Two to go. I'm sitting between delver v 4c stoneforge and some other 3 and 4 color monstrosities. I get paired with the worst matchup. Jund is weak to this matchup and I don't spend considerable time prepping for it in the SB. I faced the one player in the room with it and died. Guess that's how the cookie crumbles sometimes. Very pleasant guy, so I can't hate on the player. But turn 4 kill + turn 3 kill are painful to sit through. Game 2, I found Magus of the Moon off Sylvan Library and slammed him down. In response, opponent had crop rotation waiting.

    R6 - Loss - Grixis Delver
    My friend Jake (amazing guy and player). Deck imploded. Forest, Vet, Bayou all I could play game 1. He wasted my bayou and I failed to draw a single land thereafter. Vet sat around while the insect ate me. Game 2 I have a nice hand. T1 swamp. T2 mountain. Fail to draw another land while Kcommand sits in hand. decays sit in hand. Nothing for 5 turns. Sometimes your deck "gives up" lol. We played a 3rd game for funsies and I can curve-out while obliterating him. Sucks to suck sometimes. Jake finished 9th, so I can't complain too much. Doubt my breakers would have launched me into 8th. Who knows.

    Conclusions
    1. There's never enough space in the list.
    2. Play K-commands. Why are we not running a playset!? Oh yeah, see point #1 above.
    3. (Kevin's head is going to explode) Meren won me games. Thrun was an all-star all day. Titania shits all over your opponent.
    4. The only 6 drop you need is Carnage.
    5. The only 5 drop you need is Titania.
    6. I needed 1cc spells like bolt or push all day. Actually leaning towards bolt because sometimes you need the reach and not a removal-kill spell (relevant vs walkers, racing opponent, combat math). Don't debate about Pfires here. 2cc are clogged.

    7. Revamped sideboard:
    1 Reclamation Sage
    3 Price of Progress
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Thoughtseize
    3 FLEX (choke, pulse of murasa, toxic deluge, ramunap, pyroblast, etc)
    4 Leyline of the void

    8. Don't leave home without 3 deed in the 75. The toxic was great but I needed another deed all day.
    9. (tongue-twister) Kessig Wolf Run won me one game. Despite that, I would remove it + primetime in favor of color-producing lands + making the deck 60 cards total.
    10. Garruk Relentless and Huntmaster never showed up. Could cut them without feeling it.
    11. 4 drops are where this deck makes or breaks it.
    12. Same conclusion as last month: Hexproof is ridiculous. Opponents can't compete with it.

  12. #3112
    The crazy nastyass honey badger

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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    @Warden: Sad to see you go, loved reading the report. I'm pretty much in the same boat as you are when it comes to playing MtG - I struggle to reach once a month, or once every two months. I do enjoy the collection aspect of it though - I like owning the physical cards and thinking "Yeah, one of these days...".

    Anyways, don't forget to have fun on your wedding. Don't sweat the small stuff, just enjoy it, eachother and those close to you. And cross your fingers for good weather!
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  13. #3113

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Hey guys, I played a local tournament yesterday and wanted to share my results. I played a classical rhino fit. deck list at the end of the post.

    The tournament had 18 players of which I scouted: 2x aggro loam, 2x junk nic fit (me incl.), 2x sneak show, 2x grixis delver/pyro, lands, ANT, jurassic fit, BUG nic fit, enchantress, maverick, burn, UB reanimator and 2 unknown.

    Match 1: Lands (1 : 0 : 1)
    G1: had a slow start, but enough interaction with path + witness. I managed to exile marit lage 4 times in that game and finished off with kaya into 2 rhino.
    G2: was a really grindy game. Gained a ton of life with rhino and thragtusk, but opponent had loam running with 2 maze + tabernacle to stall the game forever. went to time and got him down to 1 life in the last turn.. Pithing needle on thespian's stage really did the job for me in this game.

    Match 2: Sneak Show (0:2)
    G1: He gets griselbro into play, draws a bunch, dead.
    G2: I believe I duressed his sneak attack, but he eventually finds a show and tell to put in flying spagetthi monster. dead.

    Match 3: ANT (1:2)
    G1: I knew he plays storm. Mulligan an okay hand down to 6 for some action. Don't know the exact sequence, but I tried to discard some of his stuff, while he brainstormed greedy and kept his LED in hand. I expected him to hide that and named Lotus Petal -> hit, but still LED in hand :/ I believe he goes off on turn 4.
    G2: Managed to get Kambal into play. That guy won me the game single-handedly. Though in a competitive rule enforcement I would've lost. Don't miss the Kambal triggers guys!
    G3: Guess I threw that game by hard missplaying. My starting hand included swamp, duress, therapy, surigcal, GSZ, rhino (I had no other lands). I t1 duress him, see Chain of Vapors, Dark Ritual, Brainstorm, Cabal Ritual, Bayou, Infernal Tutor + 1 more card (can't remember). Choose Infernal Tutor and instantly fired off my surgical to get all his tutors out. (That surgical should be the first missplay) Can't really remember the rest of the game. It was something like: I draw dryad arbor. Play Therapy (see tendrills in his hand) and think for long time if I should sac my only green source for flashback to take the tendrills. Which I decided to do (second missplay). He cantrips into Past in Flames (thanks statistics) and finishes me off. I believe I should've just let him have the tendrills in hand and rather try to stabilize my manabase with GSZ into explorer + flashback that instead. But ey it's a game and I learn from mistakes.

    Match 4: Aggro Loam (2:0)
    G1: Scouted the guy before. Won the die roll. T1 swamp, therapy, name chalice -> hit twice. The guy rolls his eyes and laughed. I apologized and felt really sorry for him. Rest of the game was easy going. Rhinos doing their job.
    G2: He gets sylvan library and bob going. I find my garruk, which was awesome to kill bob. Rest of the game was rhino, garruk saccing vet to fetch sigarda -> win. Opponent told me he boarded out lilianas, guess that's right, but still possibly the most scary card for me, from the whole deck.

    Match 5: Sneak Show (yes again...) (0:2)
    G1: He cantrips, I play rhino and durdle stuff. He slams sneak into emmi. dead.
    G2: Started off with duress, then play library, draw 3 since life doesn't matter. Have a canonist in play. He plays sneak, I die. Sadly didn't get any lost legacy against a sneak deck. Learned to not board in surgicals and canonists against sneak show decks.

    Overall I enjoyed the tournament, even though 3 games were known bad MUs. Was my first legacy paper event and hope you enjoyed to read my report. Any feedback is welcome. Regarding sideboard: I think I should add To the Slaughter or at least Diabloic Edict against the sneak matchup. I'm also considering collective brutality which duplicates as hate against oposing DRS. Another sidenote: I never drew Vindicate nor Painful Truths. Maybe possible to replace them. Thinking about Abzan Charm. But I always kept the Truths in to have faster access to sideboard cards. I enjoyed playing small nissa. She at least guarantees a landdrop.

    My personal highlights of the evening:
    * Exiling marit lage 4 times in 1 game
    * The first therapy against the loam deck with double chalice hit
    * Garruk fetching sigarda with enough mana to directly cast thanks to explorer ramp


    4 Veteran Explorer
    2 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Qasali Pridemage
    1 Nissa, Vastwood Seer
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Tireless Tracker
    4 Siege Rhino
    1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
    1 Thragtusk

    3 Path to Exile
    2 Abrupt Decay

    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    1 Painful Truths
    1 Vindicate

    1 Sylvan Library
    3 Pernicious Deed
    1 Kaya, Ghost Assassin
    1 Nissa, Vital Force

    1 Dryad Arbor
    1 Karakas
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    3 Forest
    2 Plains
    2 Swamp
    2 Bayou
    1 Savannah
    1 Scrubland
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Windswept Heath


    SB:
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
    1 Garruk Relentless
    1 Pithing Needle
    3 Lost Legacy
    1 Golgari Charm
    2 Duress
    3 Surgical Extraction

  14. #3114

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    @Warden: Sad to see you go, loved reading the report. I'm pretty much in the same boat as you are when it comes to playing MtG - I struggle to reach once a month, or once every two months. I do enjoy the collection aspect of it though - I like owning the physical cards and thinking "Yeah, one of these days...".

    Anyways, don't forget to have fun on your wedding. Don't sweat the small stuff, just enjoy it, eachother and those close to you. And cross your fingers for good weather!
    I got into MTGO pretty recently, I don't actually play it all that much but it's very easy to buy into and sell out of both only take minutes so sitting on the digital cards doesn't really cost me anything.

    I'm looking at shrinking my paper collection pretty significantly soon. I want to get it down to just the cards I'm going to play and move the bulk of my collection value either into foiling decks or into MTGO. I haven't decided on which yet, but to be perfectly honest the cards are just getting too pricey. I'm not comfortable having a $25,000 collection sitting in a card box on my desk, also I've been noticing paper cards getting harder and harder to move in large quantities for good value. I don't want to get stuck with a bunch of cards I can't get rid of in the future.

    That said, I find paper Magic to be much more fun than online.

  15. #3115

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by p.faul01 View Post
    Hey guys, I played a local tournament yesterday and wanted to share my results. I played a classical rhino fit. deck list at the end of the post.

    The tournament had 18 players of which I scouted: 2x aggro loam, 2x junk nic fit (me incl.), 2x sneak show, 2x grixis delver/pyro, lands, ANT, jurassic fit, BUG nic fit, enchantress, maverick, burn, UB reanimator and 2 unknown.
    When 22% of the field is Nic Fit I would definitely switch to something else that dodges hate. You're just begging to get destroyed by peoples sideboards in that meta.

    Overall I enjoyed the tournament, even though 3 games were known bad MUs.
    Which three? ANT, S&S, and Loam are all good matches normally.

  16. #3116

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Brael View Post
    When 22% of the field is Nic Fit I would definitely switch to something else that dodges hate. You're just begging to get destroyed by peoples sideboards in that meta.



    Which three? ANT, S&S, and Loam are all good matches normally.
    I believe combo/unfair Decks in general are the weakness of junk. So I meant ANT and the two S&S matches. The meta was not really tuned regarding gravehate. It was the first legacy tournament in that play group and 100% proxies were allowed. So I also didn't know what to expect ;)

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  17. #3117

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by p.faul01 View Post
    I believe combo/unfair Decks in general are the weakness of junk. So I meant ANT and the two S&S matches. The meta was not really tuned regarding gravehate. It was the first legacy tournament in that play group and 100% proxies were allowed. So I also didn't know what to expect ;)

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    Junk is well positioned against Sneak and Show, but you have to build your deck properly. Between Karakas, Crop Rotation, Swords/Path, and Edict you should have 8 1 mana instant ways to stop what they put out (5 Emrakul, 8 Griselbrand). If you run a Maze of Ith in your sideboard that jumps to 8 and 9 postboard. Then you should also have a Toxic Deluge for S&T since they don't get haste then, and a second postboard. That's on top of Cabal Therapy in G1 and Duress out of the board. All in all you should be looking at 13 cards that interact in G1 and 16 after the SB. It's not an autowin, but we're definitely favored... but this goes back to my earlier argument that your deck is built much less than optimally.

    ANT is a little harder but still winnable. I prefer to not play against it, but I don't feel like it's bad either. It should be close to even. Cabal Therapy names are very important, but more than that... having some interaction is good. Being able to wipe the GY in response to a Past in Flames, Lost Legacy something, Pulse of Murasa to beat a lethal Tendrils, and so on. There's a lot you can do to shut them down.

    If you want to be more competitive you should lower your curve. What will cost you more games than anything else is playing a high curve that's dependent on mana acceleration, and then missing that acceleration through either draws or disruption. 3 5 drops and 5 4 drops is a lot.

    Also, since your meta is new, you should absolutely 100% build to beat unfair decks. People will play force check decks initially (especially in full proxy events) and since you're on a deck that doesn't play force, you need tools to fight that.

  18. #3118

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Brael View Post
    Junk is well positioned against Sneak and Show, but you have to build your deck properly. Between Karakas, Crop Rotation, Swords/Path, and Edict you should have 8 1 mana instant ways to stop what they put out (5 Emrakul, 8 Griselbrand). If you run a Maze of Ith in your sideboard that jumps to 8 and 9 postboard. Then you should also have a Toxic Deluge for S&T since they don't get haste then, and a second postboard. That's on top of Cabal Therapy in G1 and Duress out of the board. All in all you should be looking at 13 cards that interact in G1 and 16 after the SB. It's not an autowin, but we're definitely favored... but this goes back to my earlier argument that your deck is built much less than optimally.

    ANT is a little harder but still winnable. I prefer to not play against it, but I don't feel like it's bad either. It should be close to even. Cabal Therapy names are very important, but more than that... having some interaction is good. Being able to wipe the GY in response to a Past in Flames, Lost Legacy something, Pulse of Murasa to beat a lethal Tendrils, and so on. There's a lot you can do to shut them down.

    If you want to be more competitive you should lower your curve. What will cost you more games than anything else is playing a high curve that's dependent on mana acceleration, and then missing that acceleration through either draws or disruption. 3 5 drops and 5 4 drops is a lot.

    Also, since your meta is new, you should absolutely 100% build to beat unfair decks. People will play force check decks initially (especially in full proxy events) and since you're on a deck that doesn't play force, you need tools to fight that.
    I agree with some of your points but not with all. First of all I am not in the position to play a tournament to win anything. Since it was my first paper legacy event I am mainly learning the deck. Secondly my maindeck is built to beat midrange decks. That's also a reason for so few options against unfair decks. Your argument about force check decks is totally viable, and I agree that I should be better prepared for unfair decks in a 100% proxy tournament. But I don't agree on the maze against sneak decks. 1 attack trigger from emrakul is enough to lose the game. I am thinking about adding some number of crop rotations to my 75 and possibly a bojuka bog in the sb. But maze only helps against griselbro. Toxic deluge might also find a place in the 75. Currently I also think about collective brutality. Since on the one side it kills annoying DRS and on the other side it is additional discard against sneak attacks or the like.

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  19. #3119

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by p.faul01 View Post
    But I don't agree on the maze against sneak decks. 1 attack trigger from emrakul is enough to lose the game. I am thinking about adding some number of crop rotations to my 75 and possibly a bojuka bog in the sb. But maze only helps against griselbro. Toxic deluge might also find a place in the 75. Currently I also think about collective brutality. Since on the one side it kills annoying DRS and on the other side it is additional discard against sneak attacks or the like.

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    S&S generally runs 4 Griselbrand and 2 Emrakul. Of the threats, Griselbrand is a bigger threat because one will draw into another off of Sneak Attack. Emrakul on the other hand will make you sacrifice some stuff, but you're still playing the game provided you were at 16 life or higher. It never feels good to sacrifice 6 permanents, but in and of itself that's not a game ender.

    Where Maze really shines though is against an active Sneak Attack when it's highly likely the opponent is holding a defensive Griselbrand. In most cases in that scenario you can't swing, because the opponent will activate, eat your best guy, gain life, and if necessary draw cards. However, with Maze you can swing in and Maze whatever the opponent blocks.

    Don't worry about building to beat midrange, you'll do that naturally, you'll perform better across the board if you improve combo and leave midrange at a 70% win rate rather than sacrifice combo to push midrange to 80%.

  20. #3120

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by p.faul01 View Post
    Currently I also think about collective brutality. Since on the one side it kills annoying DRS and on the other side it is additional discard against sneak attacks or the like.
    I agree with the general sentiment of this but you might want to read the card again

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