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Thread: [Primer] Nic Fit

  1. #1921

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Do we have any Scapewish Players with lists that they've been playing post SDT ban that they would care to share? I like to toggle my build a little to keep the local guys guessing at our small weekly events and need a little inspiration for my build.

    Maindeck (60)
    1 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Veteran Explorer
    1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Tireless Tracker
    1 Thragtusk
    1 Broodmate Dragon
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    2 Thoughtseize
    3 Abrupt Decay
    4 Burning Wish
    1 Painful Truths
    2 Scapeshift
    3 Pernicious Deed
    4 Badlands
    2 Bayou
    3 Forest
    3 Mountain
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    1 Stomping Ground
    2 Swamp
    4 Taiga
    2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
    3 Verdant Catacombs

    Sideboard (15)
    1 Duress
    2 Extirpate
    1 Innocent Blood
    1 Pyroclasm
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    1 Painful Truths
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 From the Ashes
    1 Massacre
    1 Scapeshift
    2 Slaughter Games
    1 Tsunami
    1 Pithing Needle



    Shared via TopDecked MTG
    https://www.topdecked.me/decks/70f70...b-65d79d3d0722


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  2. #1922

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post
    These are the two lists I'll be testing:

    Rhinotime

    4 Windswept Heath
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Forest
    2 Plains
    2 Swamp
    2 Bayou
    2 Savannah
    1 Scrubland
    2 Phyrexian Tower
    21

    4 Veteran Explorer
    2 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
    4 Siege Rhino
    1 Tireless Tracker
    14

    3 Pernicious Deed
    3 Abrupt Decay
    3 Path to Exile
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    17

    2 Painful Truths
    3 Sylvan Library
    2 Night's Whisper
    7

    +1/2 Free slots



    4c Special

    4 Veteran Explorer
    2 Deathrite Shaman
    2 Noble Hierarch
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Eternal Witness
    3 Siege Rhino
    1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
    2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    1 Atraxa
    2 Baleful Strix
    19

    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    8

    2 Sylvan Library
    2 Painful Truths
    3 Path to Exile
    2 Abrupt Decay
    3 Pernicious Deed
    12

    2 Forest
    2 Plains
    2 Swamp
    1 Scrubland
    2 Savannah
    2 Bayou
    1 Tropical Island
    2 Phyrexian Tower
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Windswept Heath
    22

    Sideboard

    3 Meddling Mage
    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Pithing Needle
    1 Toxic Deluge
    1 Zealous Persecution
    2 Gaddock Teeg
    3 Leyline of the Void/Surgical Extraction

    ---------

    My reasoning is that I never got to try the blue splash yet. Leovold is a good card, Atraxa is excellent. The blue splash should be similar to the red splash we used to run, so why not give it a shot? Noble gives more reliable blue mana production to help out a bit, and the exalted can help push Rhinos/Atraxa through. Might want to throw in a Qasali Pridemage, but that'll require testing before tweaking.
    For the rhino for list I would recommend 1 more land. 22 feels nicw giving you 48 playable while still having access to colors. It is possible to get color screwed or choked on mana with this deck as an FYI.

    Another flex spot could be diabolic edict. I have a lot of eldrazi in my meta so it puts in a pot of work.

  3. #1923
    The crazy nastyass honey badger

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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobra_D View Post
    For the rhino for list I would recommend 1 more land. 22 feels nicw giving you 48 playable while still having access to colors. It is possible to get color screwed or choked on mana with this deck as an FYI.

    Another flex spot could be diabolic edict. I have a lot of eldrazi in my meta so it puts in a pot of work.
    I count 14/13/14 G/B/W, so his manabase is stable as far as colours are concerned. As for numbers - the library manipulation he runs helps quite a lot with that, it's fine. I've been running 21 w/ a 14/14/14 spread for ages and it works like a dream. As you might notice - matt's list is quite close to the ground - he doesn't need that much mana to function and thus he runs less land.

    I still have vacation so I won't be on much, but I (unfortunately) do have returned from Mauritius. If you ever want to go for an awesome vacation on an actual tropical island during the summer months of the northern hemisphere, I can highly recommend it.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  4. #1924

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    I have an absurd number of D&T and lands in my meta, so mana can get bottlenecked easily between ports, wastes, and yes ghost quarter.

    Close to the ground is fine, but there are 4 rhinos, a sigarda, 4 gsz's, which let's be honest, nic fit has access to a lot of mana a lot of the time but as a result the cards get greedy. But if it works for you have at it.

  5. #1925
    The crazy nastyass honey badger

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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    The key is clever play. Keep playing the control role, grind them out and apply pressure as soon as you see a gap. Library manipulation is also great here, since you'll see a lot more cards than the D&T pilot.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  6. #1926

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    I count 14/13/14 G/B/W, so his manabase is stable as far as colours are concerned. As for numbers - the library manipulation he runs helps quite a lot with that, it's fine. I've been running 21 w/ a 14/14/14 spread for ages and it works like a dream. As you might notice - matt's list is quite close to the ground - he doesn't need that much mana to function and thus he runs less land.
    I've never agreed with this view. It works with cantrip decks but without cantrips you really do need the land. You want to make sure you get 2+ lands by the time you're 8 cards into your deck and that gives you a minimum land count. The optimal land count is actually a bit high (25, though few of us play that), so you don't want your mana curve to be too low to the ground. This is where my philosophy came from. I run a low curve, but a lot of optional mana sinks so my deck can function well regardless of my land draw.

  7. #1927
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Dusting off my Explorers to play at a new LGS, first Legacy evening tonight. Been too long since playing this deck.

    Not super spicy, but this should be fairly consistent. I don’t think Rhinos are any good currently as the format is full of Gurmag Anglers and Baleful Strix. Not sure no Deeds is the right call, we’ll see, but Decay and Kommand should cover the noncreature side of things, and P Fire the rest.

    [Creatures 18]
    4 Veteran Explorer
    3 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Courser of Kruphix
    3 Tireless Tracker
    1 Thragtusk
    1 Titania, Protector or Argoth
    1 Primeval Titan

    [Sorceries 12]
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun’s Zenith
    2 Painful Truths
    2 Toxic Deluge

    [Instants 7]
    2 Abrupt Decay
    2 Kolaghan’s Command
    3 Punishing Fire

    [Lands 23]
    4 Grove of the Burnwillows
    2 Bayou
    1 Taiga
    1 Badlands
    2 Forest
    2 Swamp
    1 Mountain
    1 Volrath’s Stronghold
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    4 Verdant Catacombs
    4 Wooded Foothills

    SB
    3 Lost Legacy
    2 Slaughter Games
    3 Hymn to Tourach
    2 Duress
    2 Choke
    3 Leyline of the Void
    Quote Originally Posted by CutthroatCasual View Post
    Storm was killed by Leovold
    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyIsAnEternalFormat View Post
    The power of blue is overrated...I personally play Jund and I consistently top 4 FNMs with it.

  8. #1928

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    If there's a lot of black creatures in your meta, look into Dark Betrayal as a sideboard card.

  9. #1929
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Here's a short tournament report. I tried Leshrac's list in the weekly local tournament with about 30 players, no previous playtesting done. Thought I'd share my first experiment with this deck. Thanks for answering my questions in PM's by the way, quite helpful, Leshrac!

    [edit: sorry for all the edits, I somehow always find a lot of things to add after posting. Anyway, here is Leshrac's list too:
    Maindeck from: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...=1#post1015935
    Sideboard from: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...1#post1019612]

    Changes to the list: I only had 2 Trackers so I substituted the other two copies with 2 Walking Ballista which were ok, also played the list with 3 Mox Diamonds (and not the Deathrite version from the Turbo Eldrazi-thread). I think at least 1 Ballista makes sense since Eye of Ugin can tutor for it, also with the Cloudposts you can get massive mana and he can rule the board in the late game while also offering early creature interaction which the deck is very light on. But Leshrac should of course know that better than me.


    R1: BU Reanimator

    New guy, it was his second time playing Legacy and Reanimator. G1 we both mulled to 5, and he didn't realize I could Crop Rotate for Bojuka Bog so he didn't discard my second copy but rather chose to discard his own Chancellor. I think GSZ for Ooze sealed it from there. Won G2 somehow, at least he didn't have t1 with Chancellor protection.

    Result: 2-0, 1-0 in matches


    R2: Turbo Depths

    Both games felt like slightly lucky wins for him, in the first game we both had Marit Lage but he could find Sejiri Step and attack through my copy.

    During the second game I felt in control throughout the game. A Ballista let me keep control of opposing Dark Confidant, it stayed in his hand. I have Karakas and one copy of Thespian's Stage in my starting hand so I lose out on the possible Crop Rotation for Lage [edit: i.e. for Karakas, versus Lage], but they are still solid answers together in play. He Needles the Karakas, Ghost Quarters Stage, my Collective Brutality can't interact with his Hexmage in hand so he plays it and gets a Marit Lage. By that time I have hit him down to 3 life points and I have 2 Lingering Souls tokens on blocking duty having attacked with 2 (and Ooze and something). I'm at 19 life and probably should have played more defensively, using Brutality to go up to 21 life points instead of summoning the extra two tokens and attacking for 2 extra damage, but we were running out of time for a third game so I was too stressed to figure everything out exactly right, was hoping to finish quickly. He topdecks Crop Rotation, gets Sejiri Step again and attacks through my tokens.

    Result: 0-2, 1-1 in matches


    R3: ANT

    Gaddock Teeg won both games after some Therapy interaction, grindy and interactive games. Still the opponent is pretty new to ANT, but I couldn't tell he did any obvious mistakes.

    Result: 2-0, 2-1 in maches


    R4: UR Delver

    This guy usually plays Infect so I mulled for a hand with early interaction (Ballista, Deluge, Therapy) but had to settle at 5 cards, he also mulliganed to 5 looking for lands.
    First game I'm run over as usual, I feel like it's a tough deck to beat no matter what I'm on (usually fair, controlling decks). Bedlam Reveler draws him 3 extra cards in the last turns to finish the game.

    It feels good boarding into 11 faster interaction spells and getting rid of the slow package. It works out relatively fine but with me at 8 and 4 lands in play for eot Crop Rotation into Marit Lage (Thespian's Stage in play, signalling it) he plays a Bedlam Reveler, draws three cards and taps is last land to Ponder. I figure he may have Pondered into a Submerge, which would probably kill me since Reveler + a bolt + anything is 8 damage. I also feel like he may be the kind of player to scoop if he sees he has no chance of winning. So I postpone Lage for a turn and play an escalated Collective Brutality to gain 2 life and make sure the coast is clear for Marit Lage. He has nothing, untaps and plays Blood Moon. Ah yes, that's a play too. I think next time I'll just go for Marit regardless. :)

    Result: 0-2, 2-2 in matches


    Some final comments:
    I boarded out the Eldrazi package in every match, I guess this deck shines in the grindy control matchups and I met none of those. I think 2-2 with some tight losses and kind of bad matchups is pretty ok. I think regular Nic Fit lists tend to have trouble vs all these matchups. I would like to try to tune the deck to have a better Elves matchup. Oh yeah, and the Crop Rotation package is really nice to have.
    Last edited by pettdan; 08-10-2017 at 12:30 PM.

  10. #1930

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Nice to see some results with my list! 2-2 without any playtesting is ok i think, and from your report it didn't look like you were just overrun in the matches you lost.

    About the 2x Deathrite version i posted in the Turbo Eldrazi deck: That version has a significantly worse manabase, i'm going from 14/11/11 G/W/B sources to 12/9/9. That definitely leads to more mulligans, but on the other hand Deathrite is a better topdeck than a Mox and in most cases than a land. I tried simulating it a bit by drawing 200 opening hands and looking for Deathrites, and the results were inconclusive (the same number of hands looked worse with the Deathrites as looked better - since Deathrite is on average the better topdeck, that would be an argument for the Deathrite, but on the other hand most of the worse hands were just unkeepable now, while most of the better hands would have been still keepable without the Deathrite). At this point, it's probably safer to play the version without Deathrites, but i'll keep testing the Deathrite version to get a better feeling if it's worth it or not.

    Quote Originally Posted by pettdan View Post
    Changes to the list: I only had 2 Trackers so I substituted the other two copies with 2 Walking Ballista which were ok, also played the list with 3 Mox Diamonds (and not the Deathrite version from the Turbo Eldrazi-thread). I think at least 1 Ballista makes sense since Eye of Ugin can tutor for it, also with the Cloudposts you can get massive mana and he can rule the board in the late game while also offering early creature interaction which the deck is very light on. But Leshrac should of course know that better than me.
    Walking Ballista is on the list of cards i keep in consideration. I tried it for a while. It's great in some matchups, especially Death&Taxes and Infect, and can do something against every creature based deck.
    I think i like my current list with the 4 Trackers more (Tracker is just really strong and always gets better in mulitples), and there isn't really room for cuts. But it's a card i would play again if i think the meta might move into a direction where i need it. It's less good against the control decks (really not good against Leovold) and almost useless against combo decks.

    The thing with removal against creatures, and why i don't play very much in the maindeck: Those are dead cards in couple of matchups. And in almost every other matchup, there are still situations where they are dead cards. Threats, if you can cast them, are never dead cards - not always optimal, but not dead. So i try to play with as few removal spells as i can get away with, and if things don't work out i'm prepared to go up on removal. So far, i am getting away with it pretty well: Delver is the most relevant deck for cheap removal, and i'm beating Delver decks - also beating pretty much every other creature based fair deck. That's why i'm currently not seeing any reason to play more maindeck removal (but i did put 2 Swords to Plowshares into the board in comparison to my last post in this thread).
    Also, if you look at the 3 decks that most influenced this deck: NicFit is playing more removal maindeck (but postboard, i think i can play almost as much removal as other NicFit decks). 12-Post isn't playing much removal, sometimes no removal at all. Turbo-Depths is usually playing no removal at all. I think it's a fair assumption that my combo plans are usually stronger preboard, and it makes sense to board into a more grindy fair plan postboard when other decks have better answers to my combo - for example Delver decks usually have no maindeck answer to Marit Lage, and slower grindy decks might board in Blood Moon against my Eldrazi, but can't deal with them at all preboard. (And slower decks might be more aggressive postboard, might even board in more threats, while in game 1 they probably don't plan to be the aggressor.)

    R2: Turbo Depths

    Both games felt like slightly lucky wins for him, in the first game we both had Marit Lage but he could find Sejiri Step and attack through my copy.

    During the second game I felt in control throughout the game. A Ballista let me keep control of opposing Dark Confidant, it stayed in his hand. I have Karakas and one copy of Thespian's Stage in my starting hand so I lose out on the possible Crop Rotation for Lage, but they are still solid answers together in play. He Needles the Karakas, Ghost Quarters Stage, my Collective Brutality can't interact with his Hexmage in hand so he plays it and gets a Marit Lage. By that time I have hit him down to 3 life points and I have 2 Lingering Souls tokens on blocking duty having attacked with 2 (and Ooze and something). I'm at 19 life and probably should have played more defensively, using Brutality to go up to 21 life points instead of summoning the extra two tokens and attacking for 2 extra damage, but we were running out of time for a third game so I was too stressed to figure everything out exactly right, was hoping to finish quickly. He topdecks Crop Rotation, gets Sejiri Step again and attacks through my tokens.

    Result: 0-2, 1-1 in matches
    My results against Turbo-Depths with this build have been horrible, but i didn't want to point that out as a weakness for a simple reason: I played only against one player with that deck multiple times, and he is playing 3 copies of Rite of Consumption in his sideboard, and he won almost every game with that card (and he is also playing multiple copies of Collective Brutality, so he would often kill me even if i was over 20 life). I didn't see that very much in other lists, and i think i have the tools to beat other Turbo Depths decks - most answers to Karakas are permanent based or 1-shots. Generally, going over 20 life is often very helpful against this deck. They can often get one hit with Marit Lage through all my defense, but not a second one.

    R3: ANT

    Gaddock Teeg won both games after some Therapy interaction, grindy and interactive games. Still the opponent is pretty new to ANT, but I couldn't tell he did any obvious mistakes.

    Result: 2-0, 2-1 in maches
    This is how that often goes against Storm - grindy interactive games and in the end i win. Gaddock Teeg maindeck makes this matchup so much easier, and i think that's worth it as long as Storm is one of the most played decks.

    R4: UR Delver

    This guy usually plays Infect so I mulled for a hand with early interaction (Ballista, Deluge, Therapy) but had to settle at 5 cards, he also mulliganed to 5 looking for lands.
    First game I'm run over as usual, I feel like it's a tough deck to beat no matter what I'm on (usually fair, controlling decks). Bedlam Reveler draws him 3 extra cards in the last turns to finish the game.

    It feels good boarding into 11 faster interaction spells and getting rid of the slow package. It works out relatively fine but with me at 8 and 4 lands in play for eot Crop Rotation into Marit Lage (Thespian's Stage in play, signalling it) he plays a Bedlam Reveler, draws three cards and taps is last land to Ponder. I figure he may have Pondered into a Submerge, which would probably kill me since Reveler + a bolt + anything is 8 damage. I also feel like he may be the kind of player to scoop if he sees he has no chance of winning. So I postpone Lage for a turn and play an escalated Collective Brutality to gain 2 life and make sure the coast is clear for Marit Lage. He has nothing, untaps and plays Blood Moon. Ah yes, that's a play too. I think next time I'll just go for Marit regardless. :)

    Result: 0-2, 2-2 in matches
    I think Blood Moon is the more likely card to see out of UR Delver than Submerge. I would probably always go for it in that spot. If you don't EoT Crop and play a Brutality on your next Turn, you are postponing the Marit Lage for 2 turns and not just for one, even if he doesn't have Blood Moon, from 10 life there is a very real risk he just burns you out.
    UR Delver is like a Burn deck, you don't have that much time, you just have to race them. Sometimes things go wrong, but i think my aggressive approach to that matchup works just fine. I don't think the matchup is that bad (i'm currently 7-0 against it - there was some luck involved and it will probably get worse, but that doesn't point to a bad matchup).

    Some final comments:
    I boarded out the Eldrazi package in every match, I guess this deck shines in the grindy control matchups and I met none of those. I think 2-2 with some tight losses and kind of bad matchups is pretty ok. I think regular Nic Fit lists tend to have trouble vs all these matchups. I would like to try to tune the deck to have a better Elves matchup. Oh yeah, and the Crop Rotation package is really nice to have.
    Correct to board out the Eldrazi package, i also board it out in all of those matchups.

    About Elves: As i wrote in my PM to you, what makes Elves such a big problem is that the fair game plan against them just doesn't work: You can never outgrind them, and attacking with a big Tracker won't work either, so you pretty much have to kill them with a combo, either Marit Lage or Emrakul. And since this deck isn't optimized to combo as fast as possible, sometimes you just wipe the board 2-3 times and they still win. I don't see a great solution to that problem. It's possible to play another Toxic Deluge, Walking Ballista isn't bad against them either (but imo usually too slow), but speeding up the combos and making them more consistent isn't really possible without some huge changes that would hurt too many other matchups.
    That said, i played against Elves twice yesterday and won both matches, now i'm 6-6 against them. So the matchup isn't hopeless.

    I have notes for all the matches i played, i usually don't post those (i would flood the thread if i posted how all my test matches go), but those are all the Elves matches i played:

    Match 1: Game 1: I'm flooded, but Teeg prevents a combo kill and at 1 life i can kill him with Marit Lage via Knight. Game 2 doesn't happen, he concedes after some mulligans. 1-0 (1-0).
    Match 2: Game 1: I have 2x Toxic, not enough. His Packmaster floods the board with tokens with Deathtouch, my strong board with Titania and Ulamog can't beat a Craterhoof on a board with so much deathtouch. Game 2: Marit Lage kills him. Game 3: I have Teeg and things seem under control, he topdecks Cradle to hardcast Craterhoof. 1-1 (2-2).
    Match 3: Game 1: I'm manascrewed. Game 2: Marit Lage kills him. Game 3: I'm manascrewed. 1-2 (3-4).
    Match 4: Game 1: I'm manascrewed. Game 2: Teeg and Ethersworn slow down the game enough to kill him somehow. Game 3: I'm manascrewed. 1-3 (4-6).
    Match 5: Game 1: Close game, for a while i only had a Tracker, then Teeg stops his combo, i discard some of his cards, Primetime brings Marit Lage. Game 2: Brutality and 2x Explosives keep the board clean, find lots of Posts and Crop->Eye->Emrakul. Had and needed Surgical for NO on his last turn. 2-3 (6-6).
    Match 6: Game 1: Mulligan to 5, he kills me on turn 3. Game 2: He reveals he doesn't know what he's doing since he kept 7 cards with Cradle as his only land. Game 3: He makes a big mistake again and loses his board including 3x Wirewood Symbiot to Toxic Deluge, easy win from there. 3-3 (8-7).
    Match 7: Game 1: I have Tracker and draw many cards. He has Driven//Despair, discards all my cards and kills me. Game 2: I have Teeg and Ethersworn, he kills the Ethersworn and goes off with Glimpse, i don't find any sweeper. 3-4 (8-9).
    Match 8: Game 1: My deck doesn't do anything relevant. Game 2: Marit Lage kills him. Game 3: I'm one turn short to kill him with Marit Lage, had to decide between that and another discard spell and he had (or topdecked) the NO. 3-5 (9-11).
    Match 9: Game 1: He goes off with 2x Glimpse. I discard him 2x NO with Therapy, but he topdecks another and kills me. Game 2: I have Teeg and Ethersworn, but i'm stuck on 2 mana for ~10 turns and eventually he kills me. 3-6 (9-13).
    Match 10: Game 1: I discard one Glimpse, he topdecks another and kills me with it. Game 2: I have Ethersworn and Toxic against his board, Marit Lage kills him, Surgical to get the Elf he just bounced with Symbiot was important to keep him off mana for NO in the final turn. Game 3: I have Ethersworn and Teeg, let him hit me with Nettle Sentinel forever and clear his smaller stuff with Toxic, eventually find 2x Crop for Marit Lage. 4-6 (11-14).
    Match 11: Game 1: He goes off with Glimpse on Turn 3, i die. Game 2: I have Teeg and 2x Crop for Marit Lage, also Brutality to burn him out after he goes up to 21 with Deathrite. Game 3: I have Ethersworn and Teeg, later Knight for Marit Lage. 5-6 (13-15).
    Match 12: Game 1: Toxic buys time, Therapy blind hits NO. He still finds NO, but it's not lethal and Marit Lage kills him. Game 2: He kills me on Turn 3 before i can untap with Toxic. Game 3: 2x Crop brings T3 Marit Lage, it's fast enough. 6-6 (15-16).

    Not sure what conclusion to draw from that - i was manascrewed a lot, but i also won against at least one very bad player. I think if you can get Teeg and Ethersworn into play, that buys you a lot of time against Elves, often more than just a sweeper. Discard was often not good enough against topdecks. Postboad the deck seems fine, but i lost most preboard games. My best idea for a change would be to play a 3rd Toxic Deluge maindeck, but i don't think there is any other really good option.

    Other cards i have played that are good against Elves:
    1. Glacial Chasm. Works fine with Crop Rotation against a lethal attack. Also good against Infect and Burn. But sadly otherwise pretty bad, and unlike other utility lands this has a real cost and you really don't want to draw it.
    2. Spike Weaver. Between that and Dawnstrider it's imo the better fog creature to play, even though it can be too slow if you don't have any other disruption. But it's not great in most other matchups and not even always fast enough. When i played it, i was splashing blue for Atraxa (those two are a nice little combo), but that's not possible with the NicFit package, it's hard enough to play 3 colors.

  11. #1931
    The crazy nastyass honey badger

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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Brael View Post
    I've never agreed with this view. It works with cantrip decks but without cantrips you really do need the land. You want to make sure you get 2+ lands by the time you're 8 cards into your deck and that gives you a minimum land count. The optimal land count is actually a bit high (25, though few of us play that), so you don't want your mana curve to be too low to the ground. This is where my philosophy came from. I run a low curve, but a lot of optional mana sinks so my deck can function well regardless of my land draw.
    I know. It's the delta between what you should do and what you want to do. As for mana sinks - that's what Tracker is for, or any other CA cards. Casting the extra cards you draw is a fine way to spend your mana. Manipulating your library into Rhinos and GSZ for Rhinos several turns straight is also a nice way to spend your mana.
    Quote Originally Posted by cavalrywolfpack View Post
    DAMMIT ECHELON

  12. #1932
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    My Rhino build could easily cut Tracker, add a land and 1-2 more dorks like Noble for mana consistency/exalted. Or, add a land and two ZP run Rhinos over Anglers and muck DnT/Peezy.

  13. #1933

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by sdematt View Post
    My Rhino build could easily cut Tracker, add a land and 1-2 more dorks like Noble for mana consistency/exalted. Or, add a land and two ZP run Rhinos over Anglers and muck DnT/Peezy.
    For what it's worth, I really like Hierarch+Rhino. The biggest things we face tend to be 5/5's in the form of Gurmag Angler so having Rhino be a 5/6 is pretty useful. I'm finding ZP to not be all that great against D&T these days, they have too much that survives it with the recent additions. D&T is a deck where Deed is really, really good.

  14. #1934
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    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Or Deluge and Deed, I guess ;)

  15. #1935

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Has anyone experimented with Sneak Fit latley and/or is Arianrhod still active here?
    I would really like to see what the decks looks like now as some time since the banning has passed.

  16. #1936

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalton! View Post
    Has anyone experimented with Sneak Fit latley and/or is Arianrhod still active here?
    I would really like to see what the decks looks like now as some time since the banning has passed.
    I've been piloting Sneak Fit locally in a small weekly tournament but I doubt that my small sample size would be worth a lot of consideration.

    Sneaky Fit (v2): Sneak Attack With Veteran Engine

    Maindeck (60)
    1 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Veteran Explorer
    1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Fierce Empath
    1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
    1 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
    1 Thragtusk
    1 Grave Titan
    1 Inferno Titan
    1 Primeval Titan
    1 Woodland Bellower
    1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    2 Abrupt Decay
    3 Punishing Fire
    2 Painful Truths
    3 Pernicious Deed
    4 Sneak Attack
    1 Badlands
    2 Bayou
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Forest
    3 Grove of the Burnwillows
    3 Mountain
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    2 Swamp
    1 Taiga
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Volrath's Stronghold
    2 Wooded Foothills

    Sideboard (15)
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Nissa, Vital Force
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Thoughtseize
    1 Kozilek's Return
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    1 To the Slaughter
    1 Toxic Deluge
    2 Slaughter Games
    1 Pithing Needle
    2 Carpet of Flowers



    Shared via TopDecked MTG
    https://www.topdecked.me/decks/ae846...7-5912c74c53ff


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  17. #1937

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Looks good as far as i can see.

    I never tested Sidisi. How is she? In theory i feel that she could be a very good addition.

    Are you satisfied with your removal? I had always problems to figure out how much and what kind of removal sneak fit really needs.

    Do you think painful truths ist better than Tireless Tracker?

  18. #1938

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Quote Originally Posted by Dalton! View Post
    Looks good as far as i can see.

    I never tested Sidisi. How is she? In theory i feel that she could be a very good addition.

    Are you satisfied with your removal? I had always problems to figure out how much and what kind of removal sneak fit really needs.

    Do you think painful truths ist better than Tireless Tracker?
    Sidisi can be very medium or lock up the game in some places. There is a big risk with her exploit trigger going on the stack and your creature/s getting removed before it resolves. Most often happens if she is the only creature. That turns her into a 5 mana demonic tutor that can get countered with swords, karakas, etc. She synergizes great with Volrath's Stronghold and Sneak Attack. I treat her like a variant of Fierce Empath.

    I feel like the removal has been fair. Deed can do a lot to fill the gaps around Decay and Punishing Fire but I haven't explored using Push. I am also not convinced that the To the Slaughter in the SB shouldn't be a Diabolic Edict or 2.

    I could see Trackers in the SB to play more of a midrange game but the immediate card draw to turn the corner and get to the combo is important. Tracker's draw is just a little slow for trying to dig into combo. I use the velocity of truths to make up for the lack of card selection (Cantrips and SDT).


    I'm no expert on the deck but I hope that is helpful.

  19. #1939
    Site Contributor
    Stevestamopz's Avatar
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    Oct 2014
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    Melbourne, Australia.
    Posts

    576

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    I don't have a decklist for you all yet but I have been informed that Nic Fit just won the Legacy portion of the New Zealand Eternal Weekend!
    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    Dat 1/1 with built in pump. Watch out Griselbrand here comes lizard mid range.
    Quote Originally Posted by Von View Post
    Is this a troll or are gobbos really dtb?

  20. #1940

    Re: [Primer] Nic Fit

    Hi!

    From the commander spoils, I see this one over the axe (or in a package) for a human shell:

    Make me thought of skullclamp. No auto sac outlet but an offensive upgrade. "Draw" only one, but you're sure to get a creature and pass Leovold since it's not a true draw.
    Even Stoneforge get an other copy of herself.

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