I wouldn't call that low to the ground. 3 4 drops and 3 5 drops, 81 pips in total. I think the curve is good, but it's definitely not low to the ground. I am happy to see CR though. Contrary to your and Navsi's opinions on the card I think it's fantastic. It seriously helps against many of our traditionally bad matchups while not harming our good matchups in the slightest. And it's putting up results which indicates that there's something to it.
I think discussion on the card is good. In the past couple months since we really started using the card, there have been a lot of successful lists using it, with a variety of numbers. Everything from 1 to 4, and different strategies to utilize the card at each number. It's not for every list, but I think it's good for a lot of them.
Isn't Miracles back in DTB now? Miracles, if not the best deck is still a very good one.
Just ordered a foil Dovescape from star city. Would cause a stir if two wildly different nic fit lists won back to back eternal weekend-scale events...
As far as Crop Rotation goes, having a couple easy maindeck answers to graveyard strategies/marit lage/sneakshow seems ok to me. It's going to be sided out in most matchups, but I could see it not being terrible even in game 1 against quite a bit of stuff. 2 seems like an ok number. To me it's just a bit of spice to help improve generally unfair matchups that we struggle with.
I rarely ever want to remove my Crop Rotations. Even if you put aside the utility of lands like Karakas, Bojuka Bog, and even Maze of Ith. Crop Rotation still holds a lot of value by finding Phyrexian Tower, allowing it to act as sacrifice outlets 6+ for Veteran Explorer. That drastically speeds up your hands. It also acts as recursion with Phyrexian Tower. Just for the ability to effectively run two of each of those lands I think a single Crop Rotation is warranted in pretty much every game. The only time it's outright bad is if you play it into a Force of Will, but with even a moderate level of experience in the format you can avoid doing that.
Part of the issue with another primer re-write atm (aside from having the time to do so) is that I don't feel like we've really collected enough data / put up enough good results to actually draw any conclusions yet. We're still in the throes of a complete deck rebuild even as the format continues to shift and change around us.
This result is an important step, for sure, but I don't think that we can really justify rewriting the primer when we have very little to effectually say at this point. It feels that we're still very much trying to find things that will work with Top gone at this point. It doesn't help that the "best" lists from pre-Top are basically stalled out dead in the water post-Top. I've tried and tried and tried to get Sneak working again and it just flat out...won't. I've tested with several BUG variants, as well as Sneak variants, on modo, and they just stall out and die. I've tried Leshrac's build and it did not go well for me -- might be pilot preference interference, but until more people are putting up results with it, I don't think we can confidently say that "this is a way forward" like I would want to be able to in the primer.
I do have something in the works that I'm cooking up with Iggins, but I could be way off base and don't want to embarrass myself without trying it a little first -- planning on taking it to Mythic this weekend.
About Crop Rotation: I usually cut them against fair blue decks without Wastelands, like Miracles or 4-Color Leovold, also against Dragon Stompy. All for the same reason: Risk to get countered (or uncastable against Chalice) is high and reward is pretty small because i don't really need the utility lands or the Dark Depths combo. Otherwise i usually don't cut them at all.
I'm curious why it didn't work for you. I have only my results on xmage to go with, and as i wrote a couple of times, they don't point to any real problems. So i really want to know where other players who tried the deck have problems with it. Could be a different playstyle, could be lack of experience with the build, but it's always possible my results would be much worse against better players (it's really hard for me to guess how much worse the playerbase on xmage is compared to Magic Online - sometimes i see obvious mistakes, but in most games i don't).
Hi guys!
I am trying out this list now. I have removed Lliana of the Veil becasue I felt she didn't fit the deck at all. I really didn't want to discard any of my cards.
It was build after Bobmans list
https://deckstats.net/deck-13808213-...a7c66a3d8.html
Deadguy ale Primer: http://articles.mtgcardmarket.com/br...n-deadguy-ale/ (Jeff did it before me)
Deadguy ale Primer: http://articles.mtgcardmarket.com/br...n-deadguy-ale/ (Jeff did it before me)
Had a random thought earlier about sacrifice outlets. Has anyone ever tried [card]Berserk[/card]? It sacs a Vet early or it makes a Rhino hit hard late.
Assuming you only want 1 mana ways to kill an explorer for curve reasons (so no e.g. Diabolic Intent for example) is this really better than
- Bone Splinters
- Fume Spitter
- Innocent Blood
- Kjeldoran Dead
- Plagued Rusalka
- Tendrils of Despair
- Crop Rotate for Phyrexian Tower
etc
Getting the 2 lands at the end of the turn with Berserk (rather than immediately with other sac outlets) seems not-great and Berserking a random fatty also seems very win-more
With the exception of Crop Rotation, everything you mentioned involves giving up board position which tends to be pretty bad for us. Berserk actually translates into something. Being an instant, you can always cast it on your opponents combat step so you still get the mana first.
Some of the problems were just bad hands / draws. I'd always draw the wrong pieces of everything at the wrong times. I also never drew Mox Diamonds in my opening hand, which made development very awkward....and then I'd draw them on like turn 6 when I didn't want them anymore.
I think it's mostly playstyle problems, to be honest. I'm used to interactive lists with copious removal. Another issue I had was not being able to reliably flashback Therapies, which might just be another playstyle thing, since my sequencing patterns frequently involve the flashback.
I guess I can best sum it up by saying that it felt more like 12post splashing Nic Fit, as opposed to Nic Fit splashing 12post, and I'm not really much of a post player.
I will note that you are definitely right about Lingering Souls -- that card did a lot of heavy lifting out of the sideboard. Titania also quite impressed me.
Ok, that's fair - maybe it is slightly closer to 12post than to NicFit, but i think it's somewhere in the middle. This seems to be my big problem to find more players to play this deck: It's too much like a 12post deck for NicFit players, and it's too much like a NicFit deck for 12post players, and so most players either don't even want to try it, or even if they are very good with either NicFit or 12post might lack the experience to be successful with this. I played a ton of games with this and earlier versions, and when i started that i didn't have any real experience with either 12post or NicFit, so i had to figure out what worked best without prior experience (and as a result, whenever i try a real 12post or NicFit deck, it doesn't really work for me).
Maybe i just need to put up more relevant results with it. I finally opened a Magic Online account today, just have to get the cards now, that will probably take a few days. If things work out i can maybe get some results in Magic Online leagues. If things don't work out i probably just burned some money - it definitely feels a little risky, since neither 12post nor NicFit put up any results on Magic Online, but i guess we will see.
Lingering Souls out of the sideboard just keeps overperforming for me. The main reason it is so good: Nobody expects it, they usually expect one big creature. Souls have killed a lot of Planeswalkers for me, they buy time against creatures including Delver, and occasionally they have killed an opponent for me. Titania is good for similar reasons, with the added option to bring back an important land when i really need it (usually Eye of Ugin when i have a lot of mana and that's already gone) and in general more synergy with the rest of the deck.
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