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Thread: [DTB] U/R Delver

  1. #821

    Re: [DTB] U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by DKK View Post
    First of all, congrats on the finish! Interesting list, have you ever missed YP? Also, how has the Fiery Islet been for you? I'm interested in how often you use it for mana (losing life) before you draw a card. Isn't it awkward every now and then when you have an opener with just the Islet, but also Cantrip (or Delver) + Daze?

    Also how have the Shenanigans been for you? I take it you prefer the recurrance over the flexibility of Abrade, which is useful in a broader range of matchups (Mirror, Elves, etc)



    What does not add up to me is how you say Blood Moon is too slow on the one hand, but at the same time say the answer is another 3cc card. They serve different roles: against colorless Eldrazi Blood Moon stops the your opponent from deploying any further threats (at least most of them) after you've hopefully countered or Bolted the first. Against the Red variant it is less value, but still can keep them of colorless mana and thus Smasher/TKS. TNN stops threats that are on the board already, although you it does not stop Reality Smasher by itself. Also, Ghost Quarter lets them search for a basic Wastes (colorless deck) or Mountain (Red Eldrazi) while costing you a turn and a land, so effectively it might slow you more than it does to them.


    That depends on which turn it comes down. Turn 1 it's a must-counter most of the time, but afterwards it's sometimes just a 3-mana draw 1 for them instead of deploying a threat.
    The only time i missed YP was in one game in the mirror, but only because i haven`t drawn a TNN. I am convinced that tnn is far superior. My deck is build with oko in mind. Everything is there to beat oko and it worked. I smashed all the oko decks. The only game i lost to oko, was game one in the finals, whre my Miracle opponent dazed!! my TNN

    Shenanigans beats up on the artifact hate cards like no other card can. I dont have room in the mirror for the abrades. So i didn`t miss them. If i would want a card for elves or the mirror, it would definitly be Blazing Volley.


    My argument for GQ over blood moon is, that most of the eldrazi aggro players don`t play Wastes and against post blood moon hasen`t worked for me, because it was too slow to denie them there mana.

    Fiery Islet was amazing. I had only one game, where it hurded me twice. And it is very good against Choke

    BTW i have no idea how to beat the red eldrazi deck. Any Thoughts on that or other questions?

  2. #822
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    Re: [DTB] U/R Delver

    I've had a discussion with a local delver player about how to side against Snowko Miracles and we both had really different angles of attack. He was convinced that going all out aggression with Bolts gave him his best shot while I believe Bolt cards are the worse cards I could keep. My list is obviously a little different than the stock lists but it's because my approach with Delver aims at:

    A) make the best Arcanist deck possible, and;
    B) have a strong plan against Control decks

    My boarding plan involves taking my 4 Bolts, 2 Chains, and 2 Wastelands for 3 Pyroblasts, 3 Thoughtseize, and 2 Bitterblossoms. I play 1 USea as a 19th land exactly for SB Thoughtseize and Blossoms so I can get a free splash against Control and Combo decks. I never side out my Forces in control matchups for any deck really because the game is usually decided over a select few spells or permanents. I keep all 4 Daze because they are useful all the way to turn 4 against Oko/Teferi/Mentor backed by Veil/Pierce. Daze is useful when using TS against an untapped land to counter a potential Veil/Brainstorm or when slamming a T2 threat on the draw and still protect from Oko. When it sucks, it pitches to Force. Perhaps my approach is a little off and Bolt is better than I give it credit for given that it can instantly dispatch Coatl, kills the occasional Mentor, and makes Arcanist more of a threat overall (especially against Elks). Wasteland is definitely a card I wouldn't mind cutting entirely from this matchup and maybe having access to a full set of Bolts beats Daze #3-4. What do yall think?

    List for reference:

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Dreadhorde Arcanist
    2 Young Pyromancer
    2 True-Name Nemesis
    2 Brazen Borrower

    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Spell Pierce
    4 Daze
    1 Force of Negation
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    2 Preordain
    2 Chain Lightning

    4 Wasteland
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Volcanic Island
    1 Underground Sea
    2 Island
    1 Mountain
    //SB
    1 Magmatic Sinkhole
    2 Abrade
    3 Pyroblast
    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    2 Bitterblossom
    Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
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  3. #823
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    Re: [DTB] U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Qweerios View Post
    I've had a discussion with a local delver player about how to side against Snowko Miracles and we both had really different angles of attack. He was convinced that going all out aggression with Bolts gave him his best shot while I believe Bolt cards are the worse cards I could keep. My list is obviously a little different than the stock lists but it's because my approach with Delver aims at:

    A) make the best Arcanist deck possible, and;
    B) have a strong plan against Control decks

    My boarding plan involves taking my 4 Bolts, 2 Chains, and 2 Wastelands for 3 Pyroblasts, 3 Thoughtseize, and 2 Bitterblossoms. I play 1 USea as a 19th land exactly for SB Thoughtseize and Blossoms so I can get a free splash against Control and Combo decks. I never side out my Forces in control matchups for any deck really because the game is usually decided over a select few spells or permanents. I keep all 4 Daze because they are useful all the way to turn 4 against Oko/Teferi/Mentor backed by Veil/Pierce. Daze is useful when using TS against an untapped land to counter a potential Veil/Brainstorm or when slamming a T2 threat on the draw and still protect from Oko. When it sucks, it pitches to Force. Perhaps my approach is a little off and Bolt is better than I give it credit for given that it can instantly dispatch Coatl, kills the occasional Mentor, and makes Arcanist more of a threat overall (especially against Elks). Wasteland is definitely a card I wouldn't mind cutting entirely from this matchup and maybe having access to a full set of Bolts beats Daze #3-4. What do yall think?

    List for reference:

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Dreadhorde Arcanist
    2 Young Pyromancer
    2 True-Name Nemesis
    2 Brazen Borrower

    4 Lightning Bolt
    2 Spell Pierce
    4 Daze
    1 Force of Negation
    4 Force of Will
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    2 Preordain
    2 Chain Lightning

    4 Wasteland
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Volcanic Island
    1 Underground Sea
    2 Island
    1 Mountain
    //SB
    1 Magmatic Sinkhole
    2 Abrade
    3 Pyroblast
    3 Thoughtseize
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    2 Bitterblossom
    I'm not familiar with U/R Delver but rather with RUG Delver so consider the following as the way I board with RUG:

    I would never side out bolt vs Control MUs. Reach is what will get you there (Especially when playing with Arcanist).
    14 colored mana source is all you need. The game will go long so you'll eventually get to 5 lands.

    I would cut 5 lands from your list making sure to keep 14 blue source (so -4 wasteland - 1 mountain).
    Then, I would consider what is the less impacting cards you have left:

    - Preordain vs Ponder.
    Ponder is better at finding your second land drop so I would cut Preodain here.

    -> -2 preordain.

    Now onto the last one :

    -> I would consider cutting one chain here. You can also cut 2 chains and leave 1 preordain in (which might be the way to go since you are adding a third color to your deck and you wanna profit them all)

    8 cards in / 8 cards off.

    Job done.

    Ralf

  4. #824
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    Re: [DTB] U/R Delver

    -4 Wasteland
    -1 Mountain
    -2 Chain Lightning
    -1 Daze

    +3 Thoughtseize
    +3 Pyroblast
    +2 Bitterblossom

  5. #825
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    Re: [DTB] U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by eldub View Post
    -4 Wasteland
    -1 Mountain
    -2 Chain Lightning
    -1 Daze

    +3 Thoughtseize
    +3 Pyroblast
    +2 Bitterblossom
    This is exactly how I ended up boarding :P
    Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
    Get it...? Ass, u, me?

    ... ffs I was trying to be funny...

  6. #826

    Re: [DTB] U/R Delver

    What do you guys think about boarding in Surgical Extraction as well? Brainstorm, Swords and Terminus seem logical targets, and looking at your opponent's hand can give you crucial information to plan your own turns.
    Don't hate the player, hate the game..

  7. #827
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    Re: [DTB] U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by DKK View Post
    What do you guys think about boarding in Surgical Extraction as well? Brainstorm, Swords and Terminus seem logical targets, and looking at your opponent's hand can give you crucial information to plan your own turns.
    I always thought boarding in Surgical against Miracles was a mistake. Even with Mystic Sanctuary recycling Miracles, Surgical is still a mistake in my book. I never counter removal against them because they have much more removal spells than win conditions. The only occasion I recall countering removal was at a GP during the SDT era where I had a Delver + 2 Bolt + 2 FoW opener and my entire game plan relied on getting in with Delver in order to leverage Bolt. Note that this was during G1 because my G2 plan at the time had a no-Bolt plan. A card like Terminus when it is cast reduces the Miracle's player removal density but does not reduce our own deck's threat density. This is an important point in a grindy match because I know I will always have 2 TNN to draw into while their Terminus naturally dwindle away. There is no need to go down a card to extract them. Mystic Sanctuary recurring Entreat is probably the most likely scenario that would require some form of GY hate but the fact that it is played as a singleton makes this situation all too narrow.

    Whenever I see a Delver player bring in Surgical against Miracles I feel it is more a symptom of a lack of planning for that particular matchup. I can't imagine someone thinking they have a strong boarding plan against Miracles because they pack a few Surgicals. If you have enough counterspells and a few dedicated grind cards to bring in, Surgicals won't cross your mind when your deck has no chaff left in it.

    On a related note, I believe Cling to Rust is an interesting SB option against Snapcaster and Mystic Sanctuary. It's basically a Counter + Draw spell that can also steadily eat at your GY at EoT for 4 mana and grants you a free card.
    Do you know what assuming does? It makes an ass out of you and me.
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    ... ffs I was trying to be funny...

  8. #828
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    Re: [DTB] U/R Delver

    I think the first Surgical is defensible against White control. Swords to Plowshares is a real beating (less so in UR, but definitely in RUG or Grixis where you're protecting Gurmag or Mangdrills & Goyf).

    Cling to Dust is an excellent card, very synergistic in Grixis Delver. I was playing one in the Main deck even before switching over to RUG recently.

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