[DTB] U/R Delver

[Smuggo]

So SDT has been banned... maybe won't need those mentors after all. What do people think it'll mean for us? As a 28 1-drop deck I feel it's great but I guess will depend if other decks now become viable in the meta that are stronger.

[paradigm72]

So SDT has been banned... maybe won't need those mentors after all. What do people think it'll mean for us? As a 28 1-drop deck I feel it's great but I guess will depend if other decks now become viable in the meta that are stronger.

I think you hit the nail on the head exactly - most of the impact will come from the other ways the meta changes, and not so much from Miracles itself. To me the immediate question is whether we can deal adjust to deal with the rise of combo decks like Storm and UB Reanimator that were partly held in check by Miracles. Generally I think we are ok against their current iterations, but they might be able to streamline their lists now and get ahead of us.

[Smuggo]

I think you hit the nail on the head exactly - most of the impact will come from the other ways the meta changes, and not so much from Miracles itself. To me the immediate question is whether we can deal adjust to deal with the rise of combo decks like Storm and UB Reanimator that were partly held in check by Miracles. Generally I think we are ok against their current iterations, but they might be able to streamline their lists now and get ahead of us.

Yes we'll have to see how thing goes, but probably gonna be making some significant sideboard changes in response and possibly even need to slow down by mainboarding more countermagic if combo stuff comes out strongly off the back of this.

[Shadowwarrior346]

Exquisite Firecraft is definitely leaving my sideboard now, Sulfuric Vortex might follow. :)

[Smuggo]

Exquisite Firecraft is definitely leaving my sideboard now, Sulfuric Vortex might follow. :)

Exquisite yeah, but Vortex is good in a lot of matchups, like almost any deck slower than us on the play, any control decks really or anything with some lifegain potential that can put them out of range.

[Jonny Tempel]

Can't believe i will never have to play against that shitty SDT again... Yeah!
Guess decks like Storm and Elves will be on the rise so back to 4x Force of Will main?

Vs BUG delver, 4c delver, miracles, merfolk and loam where I've actually seen one and cast it. Won them all except the miracles match. Have been a load of others where it was in the deck but I just never saw it.

So with Miracles basically "gone" how would you describe the impact Mentor had on your games?
I can see him beeing good against D&T, Loam and those Grixis/BUG/4c Stuff where he shus down DRS.

[Smuggo]

Can't believe i will never have to play against that shitty SDT again... Yeah!
Guess decks like Storm and Elves will be on the rise so back to 4x Force of Will main?


So with Miracles basically "gone" how would you describe the impact Mentor had on your games?
I can see him beeing good against D&T, Loam and those Grixis/BUG/4c Stuff where he shus down DRS.

I agree 4 force in main might be back on the menu now just not sure what to cut for it from my list might swap it with my third Pop.

The top ban might make harsh mentor worse, though miracles could usually easily remove it so hard to say if it impacts the card's usefulness. I'll keep trying it for a bit but might go back to running a couple of goblin guides instead. Will have to see how the meta develops now the most oppressive deck has gone.

Still I think the top ban bodes fairly well for a fast aggressive deck like this. I've found I generally fare well vs the BUG decks people seem to think will come to the fore in the post miracles world.

[Rocco111]

With SDT banned, we are free of that silly CBTop lock which made this MU particularly miserable for us.

Therefore, UR Delver is probably in line to get back to its DtB position: we have a strong mana base and can hit opponents pretty bad with PoP, we can have a strong denial plan (with both soft and hard counters + a possible way playing Stifle-Wasteland as well) and we can hit fast (with blasts and cheap hitters).

I do not think that Storm nor Elfball nor SnT decks are particularly going to be bad MUs.
I'd be more "worried" about the return of Maverick eventually or the increasing copies of Chalices here n there.

[kamikaze360]

So, is anyone changing the deck much in light of no more Miracles? I am new to the deck and am personally thrilled about the Top ban as I was having troubles with the Miracles deck.


Is Pyroblast still a 2-of in the board? Still plenty of targets but less of an urgency to have multiple answers to Counterbalance?

Is Sufuric Vortex still great as a 2-of?

Do we want to up the number of counterspells in the SB or is 2 Flusterstorm + 2 Pyroblasts about right?

What about Vendilion Clique? It seems real bad against other fair decks but probably pretty damn good against the combo decks, Elves, and even D & T.

[Smuggo]

I am currently running 1 pyroblast, 1 fluster, will prob go to 2 fluster now though and keep 1 pyro.

I think pyrokinesis is worth having if elves does become a big thing, and rough//tumble is also good for that.

I'm keeping 2 sulfuric for now, I think the life-gain prevention is also really crucial for many common matchups using jitte, DRS and batterskull. And it's just good for any other durdly control decks to put a clock on them and even other delver decks if you're on the play due to our speed and damage.

I've dropped winter orb though. While still good against some other decks it's just probably not good enough without miracles around.

It's really gonna depend on the meta though and will probably be quite a while before it becomes clear what the new DTBs are.

[CabalTherapy]

I had yet another good run with UR Guide yesterday.
2-0 DnT
2-1 BR Reanimator
2-1 Shardless
ID with Esper Control (didn't want to play that MU to be honest)

My current list looks like this:

4 Guide/ Delver/ Swiftspear
2 Stormchaser
4 FoW/ Daze/ BS/ Ponder/ Bolt
3 Chain Lightning/ GP
2 PoP/ Forked Bolt
16 lands (3 Volc/ 9 Fetch)

SB for my local meta:
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Pyroblast
2 Surgical
1 Lavamancer
2 Fluster
2 Pierce
2 Electrickery (last minute change, had to leave the house, should be something else)
2 Vapor Snag

[Cpt-Qc]

Is Vapor Snag because you have a lot of Turbo Depth players in your meta? I've always thought it was a weak card but it's a matchup we literally cannot win otherwise I guess.

[MrMonday]

Goblin Guide could be interesting. If decks are trying to just load up on spot removal running a million hasty low CMC creatures could be powerful. I'm not sure how well that matches up against Elves though, which seems to be poised for a comeback.

I suppose you could just kill all the elves before attacking though. Forked Bolt seems like it'll be great in the upcoming meta.

[Cpt-Qc]

Goblin Guide could be interesting. If decks are trying to just load up on spot removal running a million hasty low CMC creatures could be powerful. I'm not sure how well that matches up against Elves though, which seems to be poised for a comeback.

I suppose you could just kill all the elves before attacking though. Forked Bolt seems like it'll be great in the upcoming meta.

If elves really do come back, I would much prefer having Rough//Tumble + Swiftspear than guide (I always prefered Swiftspear anyway).

[MrMonday]

If elves really do come back, I would much prefer having Rough//Tumble + Swiftspear than guide (I always prefered Swiftspear anyway).

Yeah, that's definitely where I'm leaning. I like Stormchaser Mage and Swiftspear too much.

[CabalTherapy]

Is Vapor Snag because you have a lot of Turbo Depth players in your meta? I've always thought it was a weak card but it's a matchup we literally cannot win otherwise I guess.

We have one Depths player but I use it against all the BUG decks to timewalk their Goyf or Angler. Managed to snag a Griselbrand yesterday; was quite neat. I am definitely not entirely sold on this card though.

If elves really do come back, I would much prefer having Rough//Tumble + Swiftspear than guide (I always prefered Swiftspear anyway).

You simply play both.

[MrMonday]

Speaking of BUG, I'm thinking of sticking Blood Moon back in my sideboard if they end up being the top deck. I've always had so-so results with it though and I'm wondering if there's anything that might be better.

[Cpt-Qc]

Speaking of BUG, I'm thinking of sticking Blood Moon back in my sideboard if they end up being the top deck. I've always had so-so results with it though and I'm wondering if there's anything that might be better.

More PoP/Burn. I don't think we want to go the control route, especially with a 3 cmc spell since there are good chances they will already have established a board presence already.

[MrMonday]

More PoP/Burn. I don't think we want to go the control route, especially with a 3 cmc spell since there are good chances they will already have established a board presence already.

I like the sound of this, but I'm not sure how much more burn I can run. I've already got playsets of Bolt/Chain and the 3-1 Price/Fireblast split. I could slot one more PoP into my board but that seems a little anemic to me.

[Smuggo]

I don't think more than 3 pop in the 75 is wise. There's still going to be decks that can play around it with basics and it doesn't become really good until turn 3.