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Thread: [Deck] U/R Delver

  1. #481
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    Hanni's Avatar
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    Re: [Deck] U/R Delver

    I run an even more oddball list that has FoW in the sideboard instead of the maindeck. Daze is way too good of a spell in a deck that operates on such a low curve. I dislike FoW main because it is so bad against fair decks, and this deck is very much dependent on having enough gas to close games out. It most certainly makes my combo matchups worse, which is the trade-off that I make to ensure that I crush everything else.

    I have my list posted in the R/u Sligh thread in N&D, but since that thread doesn't get much traffic, I'll post it here as well.

    Lands (18)
    3 Scalding Tarn
    3 Arid Mesa
    2 Wooded Foothills
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Volcanic Island
    2 Mountain
    2 Barbarian Ring

    Creatures (14)
    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Monastery Swiftspear
    4 Goblin Guide
    2 Grim Lavamancer

    Spells (28)
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Daze
    4 Lightning Bolt
    4 Chain Lightning
    4 Forked Bolt
    2 Price of Progress
    2 Fireblast

    Sideboard (15)
    4 Smash to Smithereens
    4 Force of Will
    2 Spell Pierce
    2 Seal of Removal
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Pithing Needle


    tl;dr I'd rather cut FoW instead of Daze.
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  2. #482
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    [Deck] U/R Delver

    Cool list, Hanni. I'm very into burn-heavy lists like this one right now to try go under all the blue DRS decks.

    I'm surprised by the 18 lands given how low your curve is. Can you elaborate on the reasoning for that vs the more traditional 16 from the UR Prowess lists? Seems like you still have the cantrips to play the xerox strategy with the lower land count and avoid flooding.


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  3. #483
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    Re: [Deck] U/R Delver

    18 lands is much better for my decks tempo. I don't want to be stuck on 1 land, and I don't want to commit early game mana on cantrips to dig for land. I want to play a creature on turn one, and either two creatures or one creature and a burn spell on turn two. 18 lands helps me to more consistently make my first few land drops naturally.

    Also, the extra two lands are actually burn spells. Hitting Threshold isn't too difficult by the time you're ready to convert them.

    Btw, I don't actually have the density of cantrips to Xerox the same. I'm not playing any Ponder.
    Sligh
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMogg View Post
    In porn terms, Zoo has a 11" shlong and an impressive money shot, but it's over in 4 minutes, whereas Landstill is a good 8" and can go for 30 minutes.

  4. #484

    Re: [Deck] U/R Delver

    Hey folks,

    I'm writing a primer on the UR Delver vs D&T matchup for Thraben University. Do you all have any thoughts on the matchup that you'd like to share? I've read what you've said about the matchup in the primer, but I'm always open to hearing more!

    -Phil Gallagher

  5. #485
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    Re: [Deck] U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Medea_ View Post
    Hey folks,

    I'm writing a primer on the UR Delver vs D&T matchup for Thraben University. Do you all have any thoughts on the matchup that you'd like to share? I've read what you've said about the matchup in the primer, but I'm always open to hearing more!

    -Phil Gallagher
    I find D&T to be one of the hardest matchups for UR Delver - I'm 2-9 lifetime against mono-white D&T with UR, despite being 55% overall against the field. 2-1 against RW, so 28% if I combine them. So it's possible I'm playing it wrong and that's part of my issue. But, my experiences about strategy and cards:

    Overall strategy:
    -My most common way to lose is failing to get a basic land manabase established early. We have the basics in the deck to do this (typically 2 Island 2 Mountain), but not all draws really allow it, depending on fetch configuration. I like to keep 3- or 4-land hands against a known D&T opponent if possible in order to try to avoid dying in this first subgame. But I usually am not going to send back a really nice 2-lander, and sometimes I get punished for it.
    -Some of the success I've had has been trying a "ride the Delver" strategy, particularly on the play if we get it down turn 1 and flip turn 2. Especially with the reduced number of flyers in D&T lately, using Force of Will or Daze on a Swords to Plowshares can sometimes mean winning a tempo game by attacking for 3 in the air and using our 8+ removal spells to delay the equipment game on the ground.
    -We are in a really good position to take advantage of increased Mirran Crusader usage, since we can get a nice tempo advantage by bolting him.

    Cards and sideboarding
    -Sideboarding Cuts: Force of Will/Daze (play/draw), Price of Progress. I think Price is serviceable in the matchup, since you can usually get in a hit for 4 if you time it right. But it's lower impact than the cards we're boarding in, and a bit expensive. This is not the case for RW Taxes where I think Price is quite good.
    -Sideboarding Adds: Pyrokinesis (10/10), Smash to Smithereens (9/10), Abrade (8/10), Grim Lavamancer (9/10), Forked Bolt (10/10), Rough//Tumble (7/10), True-Name Nemesis (5/10).
    -I think Sulfuric Vortex (3/10) is a trap because getting to 4 noncreature mana is really tough against the mana denial. I really want free or cheap spells. I'd even love to have things like Gut Shot in the board for this matchup, but there just isn't the space for it.

  6. #486
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    Re: [Deck] U/R Delver

    Hi! I dont thik the D&T matchup is that bad for UR. I have a positive record against the deck in magic online. The matchup gets much harder if they have Aether Vial active so game 1 itīs good to counter that if possible. Post board you get Smash to Smithereens to fight Vial/Equipment and side in more removal spells. I usually keep daze in on the play even if they play Cavern because you can counter a Vial or a removal spell. D&T sometimes sides in Path to Exile against us and gives free land drops which helps us with their mana denial game. Price of Progress is a nice finisher here because you will fetch basics and they usually have 2 or more nonebasic when you cast it late game. True-Name is also a card that wins many games because it preventīs Jitte counters and lifegain from batterskull and swings past defense for the final points of damage. I dont play Sulfuric Vortex but even if I did I would not bring it in here because it would be uncastable most of the time. I think the match up is very draw depended and even but entertaining to play from both sides.

  7. #487
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    Re: [Deck] U/R Delver

    Is the discord channel dead?

    I've recently seen some "UR Threshold" lists using Stifle and Wasteland popping up and i'm inclined testing something similar to see if those decks are a viable option.
    Anyone has some opinion about those lists or got some testing going on?

  8. #488

    Re: [Deck] U/R Delver

    My opinion.

    Even if UR non-prowess is better positioned on the meta than prowess version, I think you are attacking the meta with a strategy so similar to Grixis delver or RUG delver that I am unsure what are the benefits over them. I would say only the mana base is the actual benefit, Grixis and RUG have a better removal and creature package because of their color, would the mana base make up for that? I don't think so, depends on the meta. If you run the list you will probably feel it is very good, but if it is better than Grixis I'm not really sure.
    If you have the base from UR and wants a more tempo oriented deck, then it is pretty fine doing it even though I think you will have a 95% Grixis/RUG delver deck in terms of efficiency, what I can tell is that even though you change like 10-12 cards, the deck style completely changes UR prowess is an aggro/combo deck, it plays completely different than other delver decks, so you should first see what style of deck you want to play also.

  9. #489
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    Re: [Deck] U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Raizen884 View Post
    My opinion.

    Even if UR non-prowess is better positioned on the meta than prowess version, I think you are attacking the meta with a strategy so similar to Grixis delver or RUG delver that I am unsure what are the benefits over them. I would say only the mana base is the actual benefit, Grixis and RUG have a better removal and creature package because of their color, would the mana base make up for that? I don't think so, depends on the meta. If you run the list you will probably feel it is very good, but if it is better than Grixis I'm not really sure.
    If you have the base from UR and wants a more tempo oriented deck, then it is pretty fine doing it even though I think you will have a 95% Grixis/RUG delver deck in terms of efficiency, what I can tell is that even though you change like 10-12 cards, the deck style completely changes UR prowess is an aggro/combo deck, it plays completely different than other delver decks, so you should first see what style of deck you want to play also.
    Thanks for your response.
    I've been playing UR Prowess for almost two years now and even started playing Canadian Thresh (proxing the Tropicals) a few weeks ago so i'm aware of the different playstyles.
    You have a valid point that this is probably just a worse RUG/Grixis Delver deck in disguise, tbh i have made that exact same comment when another user first asked about that UR Stifle deck a few weeks ago. I thought this style of deck was kind of a homebrew at first but i keeps putting up results so there may be something about it.
    The problem is that RUG is still the best stifle deck out there and Grixis does the YP thing better so that leaves a cleaner manabase and the ability to run Blood Moon as advatages for straight UR.
    I was just curious if someone has got some testing going on because if this build proves to be only slightly worse than Grixis/RUG i would not have to shell out for the missing Tropical islands to play Thresh.

  10. #490
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    Re: [Deck] U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Medea_ View Post
    Hey folks,

    I'm writing a primer on the UR Delver vs D&T matchup for Thraben University. Do you all have any thoughts on the matchup that you'd like to share? I've read what you've said about the matchup in the primer, but I'm always open to hearing more!

    -Phil Gallagher
    Hi! I feel that UR Delver is favoured against Death&Taxes. I believe that the number of creatures in Death&Taxes that don't block Stormchaser or Delver combined with the number of burn spells in UR Delver makes it very easy for UR Delver to get through for a lot of damage. That said though, I think from the DNT side you should aim to resolve Sanctum Prelate as early as possible. Sanctum Prelate, if landed while your life total is still relatively healthy, will just win the game. Stoneforge Mystic getting Sword of Fire and Ice is a great way to gain control of the board if you can keep your creatures alive. Umezawa's Jitte is scarier when you are trying to stabilize. Multiple Swords to Plowshares can deal with UR Delver's flying creatures and your plethora of ground creatures can stop Monastery Swiftspears. Mana denial draws with multiple Rishadan Ports and Thalia can be extremely good if the UR player is tight on mana. The same can be said if for a well timed Wasteland and a Thalia.

    Those are just some spitballs, @Medea, please don't hesitate to ask more questions if you have more!
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilkin View Post
    I tap all 5 of my lands on my turn. He's like....OMG not Shriekmaw. I land Batterskull. He's like. Ok sure. LOL, not very often someone is more happy to see Batterskull then a Shriekmaw.
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  11. #491
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    Re: [Deck] U/R Delver

    Has anyone had the chance to play with Webb's UR List? Basics with Wastelands:http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=17203&d=306430&f=LE

    Its obviously a different strategy than prowess, but idk if this is thread to bring up discussion. x]

    I like the fact that it has the basics so that you can still play magic (blood moon/wastelands) while also giving you solid threats like Young Pyro and TNN. You can also shift gears during the match relatively easy.
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  12. #492

    Re: [Deck] U/R Delver

    How do you guys deal with Storm decks? I think Ur Delver does not have a good matchup against Storm right? Currently I play 1 Pyrostatic Pillar and 2 Flusterstorm in the board vs. Storm. Should I play more or is is enough? Hows the matchup in general?

  13. #493
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    Re: [DTB] U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by CabalTherapy View Post
    Yet another small note on the storm MU:
    The UR MU is my best MU at the moment.
    It's almost impossible to lose with ANT against UR if they don't bring in at least 8 useful cards.

    From the rare occasions where I played UR myself against ANT, I brought in around 10 cards to fight their combo: 2 SE, 2 Flusterstorm, 3 Pyroblast, 1 Eidolon, 2 Spell Pierce.

    Postboard, I'd opt rather for a faster hand than a disruption heavy because racing the combo or at least pressuring them is the best way of winning here.
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    Since the print of dark petition grim tutor hasn't seen play in legacy (not in competitive decks).
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    I believe Maverick is still the best deck in the format and definitely the most underrated deck in the format.
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  14. #494

    Re: [Deck] U/R Delver

    I'm preparing for a couple of larger tournaments in my area and that's how my list looks like:

    4 Delver of Secrets
    4 Monastery Swiftspear
    4 Stormchaser Mage
    2 Bedlam Reveler
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Daze
    4 Force of Will
    4 Lightning Bolt
    3 Chain Lightning
    2 Price of Progress
    1 Fireblast
    4 Scalding Tarn
    4 Flooded Strand
    1 Bloodstained Mire
    3 Volcanic Island
    2 Island
    2 Mountain

    1 Abrade
    2 Smash to Smithereens
    1 Sulfuric Vortex
    2 Blood Moon
    2 Pyroblast
    2 Flusterstorm
    1 Pyrostatic Pillar
    1 Eidolon of the Great Revel
    2 Surgical Extraction
    1 Grafdigger's Cage


    I choosed to play the 4th Stormchaser over the 4th Chain Lightning for more consistency. I normally don't want to start with a hand full of Burn and Counters and before adding something like Lavamancer or TNN I'd rather take the 4th Stormchaser. Also flying is still a huge thing in 1.5. The rest is pretty standard. To the board:
    I do expect a lot of DnT, Stoneblade, ANT and 4c builds. I think last year this 3-4 deck types were played quite a lot. Against Stoneblade and DnT I'm running 3 cards against artifacts and an additional Vortex for Lifegain. Against ANT I play 2 Flusterstorm which also help in other matchups and a Pillar/Eidolon split. Since ANT plays Cabal Therapy the split is needed here. Also Surigcal extraction should work good against ANT. I played against a couple of 4c builds and I honestly do like Blood Moon more than PoP. Reason for this is since 4c is running Wastelands I will fetch to Basics anyway and PoP sometimes does not make "that" much damage since Wasteland can target itself. Blood Moon just kills the entire deck while PoP is just an other Burn spell without being a removal. Also Blood Moon should protect me better against Lands or Aggro Loam and their Dark Depths. I think Ur Delver will not be the best deck anyway in this meta but its the only deck I can build with my cards except for Burn.

  15. #495

    Re: [Deck] U/R Delver

    Been newly experimenting with this deck on MTGO. Seems to me that we are advantaged in most fair matchups, particularly where PoP is hitting for at least 4.

    The issue I am having is with combo/burn. It seems like we do not have enough interaction in these matchups... Not sure how to remedy the situation, but storm, show and tell, and burn seem really tough to me. We can sculpt the board to remedy this as best we can, but is there any concessions made in the main to meet these issues? Or am I just off in my assessment?

  16. #496
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    Re: [Deck] U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Mattincognito View Post
    Been newly experimenting with this deck on MTGO. Seems to me that we are advantaged in most fair matchups, particularly where PoP is hitting for at least 4.

    The issue I am having is with combo/burn. It seems like we do not have enough interaction in these matchups... Not sure how to remedy the situation, but storm, show and tell, and burn seem really tough to me. We can sculpt the board to remedy this as best we can, but is there any concessions made in the main to meet these issues? Or am I just off in my assessment?
    I don't think Burn is as bad as you think it is. You have permission to stop some of their burn (Daze in particular being very good early) and you have enough pressure to contest their pressure and potentially out race them. Eidolon can sometimes be a pain, but can also be a pretty sharp double edged sword.

    Combo decks such as Storm and Show and Tell can be difficult though. If you are looking to have some dedicated hate in the board for these matchups, your best option is probably Eidolon of the Great Revel/Pyrostatic Pillar and more counterspells.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wilkin View Post
    I tap all 5 of my lands on my turn. He's like....OMG not Shriekmaw. I land Batterskull. He's like. Ok sure. LOL, not very often someone is more happy to see Batterskull then a Shriekmaw.
    ______________________________________
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