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Thread: [Deck] U/R Delver

  1. #41
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    Re: U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by TheManWithaPlan View Post
    Another note, BGx decks often play a lot of removal and can be tough matchups sometimes because we are a deck that relies heavily on dealing damage through creatures instead of spells, and being quite removal heavy they can kill a lot of our creatures and leave us to burn them out from high life totals.
    That was my point. In my LGS, people play quite a lot of fair decks and inevitably lot of creature removal. They often empty my board and drown me in card advantage. Bedlam is great (if they don't have Leovold, grr) and I added TNN recently. I am often afraid to use countermagic to save my creature however. I lost a few games before because wasting a counterspell on removal.

  2. #42
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    Re: U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by jattra View Post
    That was my point. In my LGS, people play quite a lot of fair decks and inevitably lot of creature removal. They often empty my board and drown me in card advantage. Bedlam is great (if they don't have Leovold, grr) and I added TNN recently. I am often afraid to use countermagic to save my creature however. I lost a few games before because wasting a counterspell on removal.
    I think it's correct to use counters against removal if it is your only threat or you don't possess the cantrips to dig for another threat. There is usually nothing wrong with using Daze vs a removal spell early in the game.
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  3. #43
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    Re: U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by pateuglow View Post
    I think it's correct to use counters against removal if it is your only threat or you don't possess the cantrips to dig for another threat. There is usually nothing wrong with using Daze vs a removal spell early in the game.
    +1, using counters depends on a lot of different factors.
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  4. #44
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    Re: U/R Delver

    I did not feel like playing ANT yesterday so I sleeved up UR again.
    I cut 2 Revelers, 1 Stormchaster, 1 Fireblast (the flex slot) from the generic list and battled with 4 Goblin Guides.
    Deck felt quite smooth. Results was bad but Guide surprised me positively.
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  5. #45

    Re: U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by pateuglow View Post
    I think it's correct to use counters against removal if it is your only threat or you don't possess the cantrips to dig for another threat. There is usually nothing wrong with using Daze vs a removal spell early in the game.
    Agreed, Daze in particular becomes much less useful as the game wears on to it makes sense to use it early to stop removal. I would try to avoid using force against random one mana removal though, even if you only have one threat. You'll almost always regret it later.

  6. #46
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    Re: U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Smuggo View Post
    Agreed, Daze in particular becomes much less useful as the game wears on to it makes sense to use it early to stop removal. I would try to avoid using force against random one mana removal though, even if you only have one threat. You'll almost always regret it later.
    This is why I shaved one FOW in the main. UR does not recover well from the 2 for 1 and generally Force is a last resort IMO
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    Re: U/R Delver

    On Fatal Push's effect on this deck: I think it's pretty much a wash between the two competing factors:
    • Negative effect of an upgrade to Disfigure (which was bad against Swiftspear/Stormchaser), plus BUG decks having access to 1-mana removal instead of 2-mana.
    • Positive effect of BUG manabases being super vulnerable to our Price of Progress.

    Overall it feels to me like we might lose a couple percentage points against the general field, but I think it's close.


    Last night I had a fun 4-0 MTGO League run going, and was up a game in the 5th match, but ended up losing a hearbreaker to Miracles' blind CB flips to miss the perfect run :/. My luck had to run out at some point against Miracles, had won the last 5 in a row in that matchup. I'm considering some spice like moving a Sulfuric Vortex to the main given how slanted the MTGO meta is (played Miracles 40% of the time in my last 10 matches).

  8. #48
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    Re: U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by paradigm72 View Post
    On Fatal Push's effect on this deck: I think it's pretty much a wash between the two competing factors:
    • Negative effect of an upgrade to Disfigure (which was bad against Swiftspear/Stormchaser), plus BUG decks having access to 1-mana removal instead of 2-mana.
    • Positive effect of BUG manabases being super vulnerable to our Price of Progress.

    Overall it feels to me like we might lose a couple percentage points against the general field, but I think it's close.


    Last night I had a fun 4-0 MTGO League run going, and was up a game in the 5th match, but ended up losing a hearbreaker to Miracles' blind CB flips to miss the perfect run :/. My luck had to run out at some point against Miracles, had won the last 5 in a row in that matchup. I'm considering some spice like moving a Sulfuric Vortex to the main given how slanted the MTGO meta is (played Miracles 40% of the time in my last 10 matches).
    oof that's rough. I've yet to take UR through an MTGO league, will do it soon for sure.

    Vortex main is cute, but I'm always weary of adding a card that doesn't flip Delver

    What did your SB look like, out of curiosity?
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  9. #49
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    Re: U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by pateuglow View Post
    Vortex main is cute, but I'm always weary of adding a card that doesn't flip Delver

    What did your SB look like, out of curiosity?
    In general I agree with you, so I'll probably hold off for now. My board for this league was:

    Core slots:
    2 Smash to Smithereens
    2 Sulfuric Vortex
    1 Pyroblast
    1 Flusterstorm
    2 Price of Progress
    1 Surgical Extraction

    Flex slots:
    1 Null Rod
    2 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Pyrokinesis
    1 Sulfur Elemental
    1 Exquisite Firecraft

    Most of those flex slots change in and out depending on meta. I think I was too high on the graveyard hate here and need to cut that down by at least one card, probably going up to 2 Pyroblast. Also looking to fit in Submerge.

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    Re: U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by CabalTherapy View Post
    I did not feel like playing ANT yesterday so I sleeved up UR again.
    I cut 2 Revelers, 1 Stormchaster, 1 Fireblast (the flex slot) from the generic list and battled with 4 Goblin Guides.
    Deck felt quite smooth. Results was bad but Guide surprised me positively.
    Can you elaborate a bit more? What were your MU's? What do you think are the pro's, and con's? Does it play out more like UR Sleigh?
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  11. #51
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    Re: U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by paradigm72 View Post
    In other content, I noticed that the second half of this article has some interesting discussion of how to play UR Delver against a resolved Griselbrand.
    GAH, she punted the game!

    Mid Brainstorm I was like "OH MY GOD, SHE HAS THIS!!!" then she put her creatures in defense mode, and I was like "That's right... WAIT! This isn't Yu-gi-oh" and it hit me she was attacking!

    She shouldn't have attacked, kept both bolts and Force and Delver, and put back the Fetch and Fireblast, then if the guy swings, block bolt delver, force battle if needed, bolt face if he draws 7. If he doesn't force battle, lethal next turn with swiftspear + bolt + fireblast and force back up, slow roll, don't put them all on the stack at once, but all before combat damage, that way you can respond if he tries to respond, or you just win.

    If he doesn't attack, you bolt face end of turn, he probably tries to force, you force back, if he goes to draw 7, bolt face. If he lets it resolve, you can bolt + fireblast and he can't draw cause he's at 7 or less life at this point.

    @pateuglow

    I'm still really iffy on Thunderous Wrath, maybe because I mostly play burn, and it's a bad card in burn.

    I guess since you try to main phase spells for Prowess triggers it ends up being fine?
    How did it work out for you? Were there any times where you drew it and didn't want to Miracle it? I guess having 4 Brainstorms it's likely you can work with it a bit better?

    Also, with Leovold, Emissary of Trest, did you find that a pain when playing UR?

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    Re: U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Chatto View Post
    Can you elaborate a bit more? What were your MU's? What do you think are the pro's, and con's? Does it play out more like UR Sleigh?
    Elves 1:2
    Won game one quite easily because I pressured him fast with 2 Delver and a Guide. He then played rather poorly in game 2 and 3 but managed to overload on guys
    and I did not drew my Electrickeries or any other relevant spell. Survived a Craterhoof attack but he just had more damage on the field and I got stuck with basics unable to play out my
    red spells fast enough...
    NicFit 1:2
    Same story basically, I win game one and lose to value plays in game 2 and 3. He played all kinds of junky lifelink creatures which made me trade negatively.
    Bye...
    Bug Control 2:1
    So, I guess that's just a favourable MU. Nothing too fancy here. I had quick starts with Guides in game 1 and 3.

    I played this deck several times last year in small local tournaments since it's one of my back up decks. I have never been a big fan of Stormchaser because he in fact is rather slow and not great in pushing through damage.
    Bedlam Reveler, however, was a tough cut but it simply doesn't fit in my strategy to play as many aggressive one-drops as possible and go for a stronger early game because I think that UR is too weak to battle through the
    opp's spell in mid or late games. I played a similar version 5 or 6 years ago with Steppe Lynx (UWR cat aggro), Guide, and Delver. Guide definitely was the best creature in that tournament and I like how he attacks through DRS unlike Swiftspear, which might get blocked (although they usually dont block it even without a prowess trigger incoming).
    It loses some mid game power but gains additional speed and I am sure that playing out a dude on turn 1 is the plan of the deck in every single game.
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  13. #53

    Re: U/R Delver

    I agree Stormchaser is a bit clunky and the mana cost can be problematic as well. Not sure on Goblin Guide though, it's fast but maybe struggles a bit more once if you can't end early. Might try snapcasters myself as I like the idea of having some card advantage, more potential for combat tricks, being able to reuse bolts etc..

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    Re: U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by scaryrawr View Post

    @pateuglow

    I'm still really iffy on Thunderous Wrath, maybe because I mostly play burn, and it's a bad card in burn.

    I guess since you try to main phase spells for Prowess triggers it ends up being fine?
    How did it work out for you? Were there any times where you drew it and didn't want to Miracle it? I guess having 4 Brainstorms it's likely you can work with it a bit better?

    Also, with Leovold, Emissary of Trest, did you find that a pain when playing UR?
    Wrath was good, imo. I've used it quite a bit for the last month and haven't had it feel clunky with the exception of 1 game.

    Burn has more direct damage available to it than UR does, so it makes sense that you wouldn't want it.

    Leovold, to me, is just a bolt target. Sure, spend 3 mana, draw a card, and I discard a card. I don't see it as a big deal in UR delver, especially since they are very susceptible to our PoP.
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    Re: U/R Delver

    So how do you guys sideboard against Storm?
    I'm especially curious about the usefulness of daze and while this question may sound stupid, none of my friends plays storm so i rarely face the deck. It's one of the few decks i have no clue how to sideboard accordingly.

    I mean it's clear i'm bringing in my Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm and 4th Force of Will alongside Surgical Extraction and Cage/Clique if i run them but what should i board out?
    Bedlam Reveler is a obvius cut but what else?
    The same is true for Sneak and Show. I know what to bring in but what to cut? Chain Lightning?

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    Re: U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Tempel View Post
    So how do you guys sideboard against Storm?
    I'm especially curious about the usefulness of daze and while this question may sound stupid, none of my friends plays storm so i rarely face the deck. It's one of the few decks i have no clue how to sideboard accordingly.

    I mean it's clear i'm bringing in my Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm and 4th Force of Will alongside Surgical Extraction and Cage/Clique if i run them but what should i board out?
    Bedlam Reveler is a obvius cut but what else?
    The same is true for Sneak and Show. I know what to bring in but what to cut? Chain Lightning?
    I'll always cut the Chain Lightning, the Revelers, anything that I deem too slow in the matchup, or something I may never get to cast. Sometimes I will shave a Probe as well

    Would be interested to see other's strategy vs those m/u
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    Re: U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by pateuglow View Post
    I'll always cut the Chain Lightning, the Revelers, anything that I deem too slow in the matchup, or something I may never get to cast. Sometimes I will shave a Probe as well

    Would be interested to see other's strategy vs those m/u
    So i guess this is true for both, Storm and S&S?
    Thanks.

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    Re: U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Tempel View Post
    So i guess this is true for both, Storm and S&S?
    Thanks.
    Yeah I board both pretty similarly. Both decks are resilient to your first counterspell, and if they go off there's likely no time to recover.

    I think Daze is only good in the very early game, so I tend to shuffle them away after t3-4 if I have other counters available.
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  19. #59
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    Re: U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by Jonny Tempel View Post
    So how do you guys sideboard against Storm?
    I'm especially curious about the usefulness of daze and while this question may sound stupid, none of my friends plays storm so i rarely face the deck. It's one of the few decks i have no clue how to sideboard accordingly.

    I mean it's clear i'm bringing in my Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm and 4th Force of Will alongside Surgical Extraction and Cage/Clique if i run them but what should i board out?
    Bedlam Reveler is a obvius cut but what else?
    The same is true for Sneak and Show. I know what to bring in but what to cut? Chain Lightning?
    Against Storm I feel as long as you have extra counter magic in the board your deck is fast enough to kill them before they can overcome a couple extra counters. For cuts, Reveler goes, I like to shave a few Probes and I also feel that Price of Progress isn't that good in this matchup because they usually fetch basics to play around it anyway. The reason I like to leave all the Bolts in is that speed is your strength and it gives them less time to overcome counterspells.

    As for Daze I feel fine about it in this matchup. You just have to pick your spots with it and if they can pay for it you have to find where they could be tight on mana and make them spend another mana to resolve a crucial spell. For Example if your opponent is floating 6xB and spends 5xB to cast Ad Nauseam I would probably daze so to constrict their mana a bit and potentially cause their Ad Nauseam to fail because they had to go deeper trying to find Petals and Lion's Eye Diamonds while their life total is under duress. If they know about Daze they can just play around it, but sometimes that is very difficult for a Storm player to do especially when their life total is being pressured by 8 Bolts and creatures that get bigger every time you cast another cantrip.

    If you want some dedicated Storm hate play Eidolon of the Great Revel (and call it party bear).

    I feel pretty much the same about the Sneak and Show matchup with a couple specifics tweaked. I think you cut Reveler. I don't love Price of Progress because I feel like they will just fetch basics again. You can shave on Probes because I would rather them be something else. Bringing in extra countermagic is generally a good idea but I would still keep as many bolts as I could.

    For Daze against Sneak and Show, they are trying to resolve a 3 or 4 mana spell quickly so Daze can be incredible early but its effectiveness quickly drops after turns 3-4.
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    Re: U/R Delver

    Quote Originally Posted by TheManWithaPlan View Post
    Against Storm I feel as long as you have extra counter magic in the board your deck is fast enough to kill them before they can overcome a couple extra counters. For cuts, Reveler goes, I like to shave a few Probes and I also feel that Price of Progress isn't that good in this matchup because they usually fetch basics to play around it anyway. The reason I like to leave all the Bolts in is that speed is your strength and it gives them less time to overcome counterspells.

    As for Daze I feel fine about it in this matchup. You just have to pick your spots with it and if they can pay for it you have to find where they could be tight on mana and make them spend another mana to resolve a crucial spell. For Example if your opponent is floating 6xB and spends 5xB to cast Ad Nauseam I would probably daze so to constrict their mana a bit and potentially cause their Ad Nauseam to fail because they had to go deeper trying to find Petals and Lion's Eye Diamonds while their life total is under duress. If they know about Daze they can just play around it, but sometimes that is very difficult for a Storm player to do especially when their life total is being pressured by 8 Bolts and creatures that get bigger every time you cast another cantrip.

    If you want some dedicated Storm hate play Eidolon of the Great Revel (and call it party bear).

    I feel pretty much the same about the Sneak and Show matchup with a couple specifics tweaked. I think you cut Reveler. I don't love Price of Progress because I feel like they will just fetch basics again. You can shave on Probes because I would rather them be something else. Bringing in extra countermagic is generally a good idea but I would still keep as many bolts as I could.

    For Daze against Sneak and Show, they are trying to resolve a 3 or 4 mana spell quickly so Daze can be incredible early but its effectiveness quickly drops after turns 3-4.
    Yes PoP is also a cuttable card versus both, because Storm isn't playing many lands and most SnS decks can fetch basics, as they run Blood Moon often in the SB.
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