Page 8 of 8 FirstFirst ... 45678
Results 141 to 150 of 150

Thread: The Source Legacy League

  1. #141
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Feb 2015
    Location

    Detroit, MI
    Posts

    370

    Re: The Source Legacy League

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    ScottW and taconaut, how goes your match?
    Taconaut, your inbox is full. I'm on Cockatrice waiting for you right now.

    Edit: send me a PM when you get a chance.

  2. #142

    Re: The Source Legacy League

    Got cordially dunked by Scott 2-0 after I stood him up yesterday! Thanks for understanding!

  3. #143
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Feb 2015
    Location

    Detroit, MI
    Posts

    370

    Re: The Source Legacy League

    Quote Originally Posted by taconaut View Post
    Got cordially dunked by Scott 2-0 after I stood him up yesterday! Thanks for understanding!
    No problem. Thanks for being patient while I rubbed my head for what seemed like 20 minutes in g2.
    Last edited by ScottW; 05-05-2017 at 12:05 AM.

  4. #144
    A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry.
    PirateKing's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2011
    Location

    BEST JERSEY
    Posts

    1,730

    Re: The Source Legacy League

    FINAL MATCH
    ScottW v. Fjaulnir

    This is it! Good luck to both!
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  5. #145
    Member
    Fjaulnir's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2016
    Location

    Flanders
    Posts

    385

    Re: The Source Legacy League

    Cool

    I'm comparing our schedules with ScottW already, and it's possible it'll take a bit longer than the usual week due to life priorities. We'll try not to take TOO long though!

  6. #146
    Member
    Fjaulnir's Avatar
    Join Date

    Aug 2016
    Location

    Flanders
    Posts

    385

    Re: The Source Legacy League

    Scott just beat me convincingly with 2-0 so he'll be the final champion standing!

  7. #147
    A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry.
    PirateKing's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2011
    Location

    BEST JERSEY
    Posts

    1,730

    Re: The Source Legacy League

    Congrats to ScottW! Care to give a confirm and we'll proceed to prize podiums.

    Thank you everyone!
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  8. #148
    Site Contributor

    Join Date

    Feb 2015
    Location

    Detroit, MI
    Posts

    370

    Re: The Source Legacy League

    Quote Originally Posted by PirateKing View Post
    Congrats to ScottW! Care to give a confirm and we'll proceed to prize podiums.

    Thank you everyone!
    Confirmed. Some of the most gentlemanly magic I've ever played has been in this tournament. Thanks everyone!

  9. #149
    A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry.
    PirateKing's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2011
    Location

    BEST JERSEY
    Posts

    1,730

    Re: The Source Legacy League

    FINAL RESULTS & PRIZES

    So here we are, the end has come.
    1. ScottW - Winner & Champion;keeper of Bragging Rights for all time but also didn't pay...
    2. Fjaulnir - Runner up! but first prize winnings, how about that. $50 coming your way
    3. mistercakes - Semifinalist with a slightly better record than their companion, earns $30
    4. taconaut - Semifinalist breaking even with $10
    5. Etched Champion - just a lucky guy gets the hand me down $10
    6. TheArchitect
    7. UseLEss
    8. Roccoo111


    I'll be taking the weekend to do a whole write-up with decklists and hopefully some quality data driven conclusions, so keep an eye out for that.
    Thank you again for everybody's patience and support!
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  10. #150
    A short, sturdy creature fond of drink and industry.
    PirateKing's Avatar
    Join Date

    Nov 2011
    Location

    BEST JERSEY
    Posts

    1,730

    Re: The Source Legacy League

    First I need to preface this article by acknowledging the fact the whole experiment was based in a Miracle legal world. I still feel the whole process still yielded interesting and potentially useful data, so we’ll press forward undeterred.

    THE BEGINNING
    Back in the height of Miracles, there were relentless arguments over the power level and beat-ability of the deck in an open meta. In no way rehashing the arguments myself, there were clear parties defending the apparent dominance of Miracles, postulating that decks did in fact exist that could defeat Miracles, and players just needed to adjust their choices. This served only to inflame the public, who pointed to week after week, month after month of disproportionate results putting Miracles on top by a mile. And so as with many statically supported arguments, each side used the same numbers to generate polar opposite conclusions.
    That is the part that pulled me in, the argument itself wasn’t of particular interest to me; I didn’t mind the matchup nor felt I had much bearing on the subject. I’ve always played decks I enjoyed, regardless of how good they were (too often despite how awesomely not-good they were). So to demand others not play the deck they enjoyed while I consistently threw myself at a brick wall using tier 3 decks seemed unjust. But naturally my group of Legacy players got swept up into this debate, three of our seven playing the deck themselves, so I took to task how each side supported their arguments of overpowered versus just powered enough. What got used most often was The Source’s Deck to Beat forum and the analytics behind picking the decks within.

    THE PROBLEM
    The Source’s Decks to Beat forum is just that, for those expecting to win a medium sized tournament, their deck of choice should have a plan to beat a collection of decks. These decks, through a combination of volume and power, are to be expected at the top tables in some capacity. The point that got lost often was that it was that combination of factors, volume and power that places a deck in this position. While a deck like Miracles was a very powerful and consistent deck, it was also played in great numbers. The conception that Miracles was the best deck drew more and more players to it, saturating the meta; I argued in turn that it also drove the tournament results to skew towards Miracles. This would start a potentially self-perpetuating cycle that reinforced the idea that nothing could dethrone Miracles.
    Then for those rebels, the rogue players brewing up a solution to the stale meta, I observed more than a few truncated tournament reports describing a bad round one matchup against Manaless Dredge or other off-axis deck, and how that loss doomed them to never see a top tier deck for the rest of the day. The idea that the natural stratification that the Modified Swiss tournament format causes the top tier decks “float” above random combo and unfair decks. While Modified Swiss is excellent at determining a winner in a short period of time, the random matchmaking can eliminate decks that would otherwise be well placed in the format. The only current solution is to use the results from many tournaments at a time to reduce the results that originate from chance matchups.

    THE SOLUTION
    My idea was to formulate a tournament that would artificially solve for these two issues that prevented a clear conclusion to a single deck’s power against others. First, each deck would be limited to a quantity of one. Second, each deck would face each other equally in a round robin tournament. By solving for volume, problems where a third of the tournament is playing the same deck; practically guaranteeing an appearance in the Top 8. By solving for unequal matchups the Modified Swiss presented, there is no ability to dodge a poor matchup and over perform against the general population. In this environment, the winningest deck could be considered the best deck in the format. After discussing it at length with my group, I decided to set out and implement it.
    My limitation was finding experienced pilots willing to put up with this ridiculous experiment. I couldn’t force complex decks onto unwilling players without tainting the results with underperformance. The deck needed to be chosen by the players themselves. The solution to this was to hold a lottery with each participant populating a master list of decks available to players. Each player would have an opportunity to pick a deck not already chosen. This created its own unique metagame, the player picking first had the opportunity to pick the “best” deck available, while the player picking last had the opportunity to know all the other decks participating in the tournament.

    THE TOURNAMENT
    I made my post and had some immediate interest. So emboldened, I started the motions to actually execute the event. Some participants faded once it became an actionable tournament and less a thought experiment. In the end I had secured the participation of eight fine players. Voluntary prize participation for extra incentive was put in place, and working together, they helped develop the list of available decks to be used in the tournament. They were:
    1. Affinity
    2. Aluren
    3. ANT Storm Combo
    4. Blade Control
    5. Imperial Bomberman
    6. Burn
    7. Canadian Threshold
    8. Death and Taxes
    9. UR Delver
    10. Dredge
    11. Elves
    12. Enchantress
    13. Food Chain
    14. Goblins
    15. Hypergenesis
    16. UG Infect
    17. RG Combo Lands
    18. BUG Landstill
    19. UW Landstill
    20. Maverick
    21. MUD
    22. Nic Fit
    23. Noble BUG (Reid Duke GP Louisville)
    24. Pox
    25. UB Reanimator
    26. BR Reanimator
    27. Team America (BUG Delver)
    28. Team America (Midrange/Control)
    29. T.E.S. - The Epic Storm
    30. UB Tezzeret
    31. TinFins

    The lottery was held and the players made their choices:
    Pick Player Deck
    1 mistercakes Elves
    2 TheArchitect UB Tezzeret
    3 ScottW ANT
    4 Rocco111 Nic Fit
    5 Etched Champion Death and Taxes
    6 Fjaulnir BUG Landstill
    7 taconaut Food Chain
    8 UseLess RG Combo Lands
    TOURNAMENT RESULTS
    We tried our best to play a weekly schedule, but there were bye weeks due to schedule conflicts and other various issues. Apparently not everybody lives -5 UTC, though I’m still confused as to why…

    Week 1
    Etched Champion wins v. mistercakes 2-1
    UseLess wins v. Rocco111 2-1
    ScottW wins v. taconaut 2-0
    TheArchitect wins v. Fjaulnir 2-1

    Week 2
    mistercakes wins v. TheArchitect 2-0
    Fjaulnir wins v. Rocco111 2-1
    ScottW wins v. Etched Champion 2-1
    taconaut wins v. UseLess 2-0

    Week 3
    mistercakes wins v. ScottW 2-1
    TheArchitect wins v. Rocco111 2-0
    Fjaulnir wins v. taconaut 2-0
    Etched Champion wins v. UseLess 2-0

    Week 4
    Fjaulnir wins v. Etched Champion 2-0
    mistercakes wins v. Rocco111 2-0
    taconaut wins v. TheArchitect 2-0
    ScottW wins v. UseLess 2-1

    Week 5
    Etched Champion wins v. TheArchitect 2-0
    ScottW wins v. Fjaulnir 2-1
    UseLess wins v. mistercakes 2-1
    taconaut wins v. Rocco111 2-0

    Week 6
    Etched Champion wins v. Rocco111 2-0
    UseLess wins v. Fjaulnir 2-0
    mistercakes wins v. taconaut 2-1
    TheArchitect wins v. ScottW 2-0

    Week 7
    taconaut wins v. Etched Champion 2-0
    Fjaulnir wins v. mistercakes 2-1
    ScottW wins v. Rocco111 2-0
    TheArchitect wins v. UseLess 2-0

    So after 7 weeks of round robin tournament play, the standings were:
    Position Pick Player Deck Match W/L Game W/L
    1 3 ScottW ANT 5-2 11-7
    2 1 mistercakes Elves 4-3 11-8
    3 6 Fjaulnir BUG Landstill 4-3 10-8
    4 7 taconaut Food Chain 4-3 9-6
    5 5 Etched Champion Death and Taxes 4-3 9-7
    6 2 TheArchitect UB Tezzeret 4-3 8-7
    7 8 UseLess RG Combo Lands 3-4 7-10
    8 4 Rocco111 Nic Fit 0-7 2-14

    The final matches were held shortly afterwards.

    Semifinals
    ScottW wins v. taconaut 2-0
    Fjaulnir wins v. mistercakes2-0

    Finals
    ScottW wins v. Fjaulnir 2-0

    So congratulations ScottW on taking down the whole tournament! Thank you everyone for participating and putting up with this nonsense. So now the moment everybody is looking for, the deck lists.

    DECK LISTS
    ScottW on ANT
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Ponder
    4 Gitaxian Probe
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Cabal Ritual
    3 Lotus Petal
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    4 Cabal Therapy
    2 Thoughtseize
    1 Duress
    4 Infernal Tutor
    2 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Grim Tutor
    2 Past in Flames
    2 Tendrils of Agony
    1 Empty the Warrens
    4 Polluted Delta
    2 Scalding Tarn
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    2 Underground Sea
    1 Volcanic Island
    1 Tropical Island
    1 Badlands
    1 Island
    1 Swamp
    61 cards main deck

    4 Abrupt Decay
    1 Chain of Vapor
    2 Ground Seal
    3 Flusterstorm
    1 Ad Nauseam
    1 Tendrils of Agony
    2 Massacre
    1 Bayou
    15 cards sideboard

    Fjaulnir on BUG Landstill
    4 Polluted Delta
    3 Mishra's Factory
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    2 Underground Sea
    2 Misty Rainforest
    2 Tropical Island
    2 Creeping Tar Pit
    1 Forest
    1 Swamp
    1 Bayou
    1 Island
    1 Lumbering Falls
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    3 Snapcaster Mage
    2 Vendilion Clique
    2 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    4 Standstill
    2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will
    4 Abrupt Decay
    3 Fatal Push
    2 Counterspell
    2 Toxic Deluge
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    60 cards main deck

    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Duress
    2 Diabolic Edict
    1 Darkblast
    3 Surgical Extraction
    2 Thoughtseize
    2 Pithing Needle
    1 True-Name Nemesis
    1 Tombstalker
    1 Null Rod
    15 cards sideboard

    mistercakes on Elves
    2 Birchlore Rangers
    2 Craterhoof Behemoth
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    2 Dryad Arbor
    4 Elvish Visionary
    3 Heritage Druid
    1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    1 Llanowar Elves
    3 Nettle Sentinel
    3 Quirion Ranger
    1 Reclamation Sage
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    4 Wirewood Symbiote
    2 Bayou
    2 Cavern of Souls
    1 Forest
    4 Gaea's Cradle
    1 Pendelhaven
    4 Windswept Heath
    3 Wooded Foothills
    1 Nissa, Vital Force
    4 Glimpse of Nature
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    3 Natural Order
    60 cards main deck

    4 Abrupt Decay
    3 Surgical Extraction
    1 Nissa, Vital Force
    3 Thoughtseize
    3 Cabal Therapy
    1 Lost Legacy
    15 cards sideboard

    taconaut on Food Chain
    1 Sensei's Divining Top
    4 Baleful Strix
    4 Deathrite Shaman
    1 Eternal Scourge
    1 Gurmag Angler
    3 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    3 Misthollow Griffin
    2 Trinket Mage
    1 Walking Ballista
    4 Food Chain
    3 Abrupt Decay
    4 Brainstorm
    4 Force of Will
    1 Bayou
    1 Forest
    2 Island
    4 Misty Rainforest
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Swamp
    1 Tropical Island
    2 Underground Sea
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Manipulate Fate
    3 Ponder
    60 cards main deck

    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Meekstone
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Vendilion Clique
    1 Dread of Night
    1 Engineered Plague
    1 Abrupt Decay
    1 Flusterstorm
    1 Golgari Charm
    1 Mindbreak Trap
    1 Murderous Cut
    1 Surgical Extraction
    1 Thoughtseize
    2 Toxic Deluge
    15 cards sideboard

    Etched Champion on Death and Taxes
    3 Plains
    2 Plateau
    4 Wasteland
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Mother of Runes
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    3 Karakas
    2 Magus of the Moon
    4 Aether Vial
    4 Rishadan Port
    3 Stoneforge Mystic
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    2 Phyrexian Revoker
    2 Cavern of Souls
    4 Flickerwisp
    4 Windswept Heath
    2 Mirran Crusader
    1 Flooded Strand
    3 Recruiter of the Guard
    2 Sanctum Prelate
    1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
    60 cards main deck

    1 Containment Priest
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Rest in Peace
    1 Sudden Demise
    1 Cataclysm
    1 Kor Firewalker
    1 Sword of Light and Shadow
    1 Magus of the Moon
    2 Council's Judgment
    1 Banisher Priest
    1 Faerie Macabre
    1 Path to Exile
    15 cards sideboard

    TheArchitect on UB Tezzeret
    4 Chalice of the Void
    2 Dimir Signet
    2 Ensnaring Bridge
    4 Mox Diamond
    3 Sword of the Meek
    4 Thopter Foundry
    4 Baleful Strix
    4 Force of Will
    1 Academy Ruins
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    1 City of Traitors
    2 Island
    4 Polluted Delta
    1 Swamp
    3 Underground Sea
    3 Volcanic Island
    3 Wasteland
    3 Dack Fayden
    4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
    2 Transmute Artifact
    60 cards main deck

    1 Helm of Obedience
    1 Trinisphere
    2 Lodestone Golem
    1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
    4 Leyline of the Void
    1 The Abyss
    1 Chains of Mephistopheles
    2 Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast
    2 Toxic Deluge
    15 cards sideboard

    UseLess on RG Combo Lands
    4 Mox Diamond
    3 Molten Vortex
    4 Exploration
    3 Abrupt Decay
    4 Crop Rotation
    4 Life from the Loam
    4 Gamble
    1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
    3 Taiga
    1 Bayou
    1 Karakas
    1 Bojuka Bog
    1 Glacial Chasm
    1 Forest
    4 Dark Depths
    4 Thespian's Stage
    4 Wasteland
    4 Ghost Quarter
    3 Maze of Ith
    2 Misty Rainforest
    1 Wooded Foothills
    2 Verdant Catacombs
    1 Windswept Heath
    60 cards main deck

    3 Sphere of Resistance
    1 Chalice of the Void
    3 Tireless Tracker
    2 Krosan Grip
    1 Ancient Grudge
    4 Thoughtseize
    1 Toxic Deluge
    15 cards sideboard

    Rocco111 on Nic Fit
    1 Sensei's Divining Top
    4 Veteran Explorer
    1 Eternal Witness
    1 Scavenging Ooze
    1 Grave Titan
    1 Qasali Pridemage
    2 Tireless Tracker
    1 Kitchen Finks
    1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
    2 Siege Rhino
    1 Primeval Titan
    3 Deathrite Shaman
    4 Pernicious Deed
    3 Abrupt Decay
    3 Path to Exile
    3 Forest
    2 Swamp
    2 Plains
    1 Phyrexian Tower
    1 Karakas
    2 Bayou
    1 Scrubland
    1 Savannah
    3 Verdant Catacombs
    3 Windswept Heath
    1 Marsh Flats
    1 Polluted Delta
    1 Tropical Island
    4 Cabal Therapy
    4 Green Sun's Zenith
    1 Maelstrom Pulse
    60 cards main deck

    2 Helm of Obedience
    1 Reclamation Sage
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Gaddock Teeg
    1 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
    2 Spirit of the Labyrinth
    2 Leyline of the Void
    1 Choke
    2 Leyline of Sanctity
    1 Toxic Deluge
    15 cards sideboard

    FINAL THOUGHTS
    So in the end, the sample size of 8 renders the results somewhat meaningless, but I am still convinced after enough iterations that we could get a little closer to finding out what the best deck is separate from the most played deck. I had a blast running this, but it was exhausting, and so as I finish up the 17th page of this report, I’ll look forward to the day I renew my efforts, but I don’t expect that to happen any time soon. I eagerly await the statistical efforts of others to inform me of all the nuances I missed, and I hope this whole endeavor has offered some use to someone.

    Thank you.
    Last edited by PirateKing; 07-06-2017 at 10:33 AM. Reason: Errors
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatWhale View Post
    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)