Do you enjoy the current state of legacy?

[Zombie]

Talking about streamlining during the TC/DTT days: I remember someone on Twitter posting his sideboard of 8 blue blasts and 7 red blasts: "I guess this is my life now"

Why numbers that way? Seems really weird O_o'

[ironclad8690]

Funny thing is that would probably still be a fine sideboard.

@zombie blue was to counter swiftspear young pyro bolts pyroblast etc, which turned out to be more important than countering the blue stuff.

[Noctalor]

Talking about streamlining during the TC/DTT days: I remember someone on Twitter posting his sideboard of 8 blue blasts and 7 red blasts: "I guess this is my life now"

It's also fair to say that such overpowered cards are able to shake the format a litle bit, bringing some old forgotten decks back to a decent status.
I remember playing freacking Solidarity again thanks to DTT, it probably was the most fun I had with legacy in the last 6 years

[btm10]

It's also fair to say that such overpowered cards are able to shake the format a litle bit, bringing some old forgotten decks back to a decent status.
I remember playing freacking Solidarity again thanks to DTT, it probably was the most fun I had with legacy in the last 6 years

Dig was fun, if totally busted, while it lasted, though it probably lasted about 3 months too long. The Grixis Pyromancer Ascension deck was enormously fun, but Decay seeing widespread play makes it totally unplayable.

[Lemnear]

Funny thing is that would probably still be a fine sideboard.

@zombie blue was to counter swiftspear young pyro bolts pyroblast etc, which turned out to be more important than countering the blue stuff.

Until you face one of the Chalice.decs and instantly regret that you are not playing BUG. That color combination is the only one able to fight a fair fight in a metagame dominated by Counterbalance & Chalice.

Hell, some storm pilots even started to MD Decays!

[LeoCop 90]

Having an influx of generic maindeckable answers for things is bad in my opinion. Decay is one of them. I don't ike Decay as a card, but it's a necessity to play as long as it's legal if you're in those colors. I didn't play standard, but I heard that when Dromoka's Command was legal in the format it essentially made enchantments unplayable in the standard format that was supposed to be based on enchantments because it was such a powerful maindeckable card. Pre-Decay there was an interesting meta of if you land a sylvan library or something like that, it's difficult to remove so you debate possibly playing something like a disenchant or a vindicate in the main deck. Now you just have decay that also answers dudes it not only makes those non creatures bad, but it also pushes out other interesting options.

I don't like super-efficient catch all cards too, but now that decay exists i think it would be better to have at least another similar one in different colors, so that you are not forced to play b/g if you want to beat counterbalance/chalice.

[Quasim0ff]

Hell, some storm pilots even started to MD Decays!

it's honestly insane you've waited this long to adjust to the current metagame.

[Lemnear]

it's honestly insane you've waited this long to adjust to the current metagame.

No, its insane to keep trying to fight uphill battles with a certain deck like storm by adding cards which mess with your own deck. The supertype just isn't playable atm

[Lemnear]

~snip~

Was far too appeling to just post a rant + picture rather than trying to understand the point made, which is the desperation present across the community that people not only splash colors to run certain cards without alternative equivalents, but run MD cards messing with their own deck.

Of course we have long crossed the line where combo players should just switch to "interactive" games with Emrakul rather than durdling with chaining spells to restore the old balance between Aggro & Combo, because these days its obviously more "interactive" to see Emrakul facing Chalice + Worldbreaker or Counterbalance + Plowshares than Storm vs Tempo

[Nielsie]

If Chalice and Counterbalance are banned you also have to ban Brainstorm otherwise the cantrip cartel has full reign again.

Seriously I don't get this. It's only because Eldrazi that some people are suddenly irritated with Chalice. When it was only MUD and Loam playing Chalice it was not a problem. Btw, I still think that Loam is a much much stronger deck than Eldrazi will ever be, it's just a lot harder to play than turning some spaghetti creatures sideways, so people never realy picked that chalice deck up.

What I think is the biggest problem is net-decking and a lack of coverage. It sounds ridiculous and unintuitive but because of a lack of coverage since we have lost the scg legacy opens, people just don't see interesting brews and possible new archetypes popping up on streams. Comming up with a new archetype is fricking insane that only a few realy good players can pull off. But even than, I think that at this moment there are more viable strategies than in the last 2-3 years of legacy which were fully dominated by blue xerox type decks. At least you don't have to play blue these days to have a winning chance, if that means you need to start your deck building with 4 decays or 4 chalices, fine! It's not much different than bunch of islands, 4 brainstorms, 4 ponders, 4 forces (and 4 decays...)

[Lord_Mcdonalds]

Seriously I don't get this. It's only because Eldrazi that some people are suddenly irritated with Chalice. When it was only MUD and Loam playing Chalice it was not a problem.

Things that people perceive to be "low skill" irritate people for one reason or another.

Which is amusing because this game has the skill cap of picking your nose but I digress

[Lemnear]

If Chalice and Counterbalance are banned you also have to ban Brainstorm otherwise the cantrip cartel has full reign again.

Seriously I don't get this. It's only because Eldrazi that some people are suddenly irritated with Chalice. When it was only MUD and Loam playing Chalice it was not a problem. Btw, I still think that Loam is a much much stronger deck than Eldrazi will ever be, it's just a lot harder to play than turning some spaghetti creatures sideways, so people never realy picked that chalice deck up.

What I think is the biggest problem is net-decking and a lack of coverage. It sounds ridiculous and unintuitive but because of a lack of coverage since we have lost the scg legacy opens, people just don't see interesting brews and possible new archetypes popping up on streams. Comming up with a new archetype is fricking insane that only a few realy good players can pull off. But even than, I think that at this moment there are more viable strategies than in the last 2-3 years of legacy which were fully dominated by blue xerox type decks. At least you don't have to play blue these days to have a winning chance, if that means you need to start your deck building with 4 decays or 4 chalices, fine! It's not much different than bunch of islands, 4 brainstorms, 4 ponders, 4 forces (and 4 decays...)

First of all, no one wants to see counterbalance or Chalice banned, because they are tools to keep combo in check. What do you mean by "only because Eldrazi"? Forgot that Chalice got stupid good when they printed Lodestone which put MUD over the top for years?

P.S.:
Its kinda pathetic that people were moaning the "lacking format diversity" as every blue deck ran Ponder/Brainstorm/Probe in a dozen different decks and colors, but now as near every deck is blue deck is BUGx and starts with 4 Ponder, 4 Brainstorm, 4 Decay, some players praise the "diversity"? What diversity? Because D&T and colorless aggro now have a bigger metagame share? Seriously, has this new meta emerged even a new deck supertypes (mind that Eldrazi simply is the successor of the MUD aggro variants) or just killed some?

Honestly, all what is requested is some non-BUG options to create diversity in battling Countertop/Chalice instead of sidestepping it with a few fringe deck options

[Sloshthedark]

Until you face one of the Chalice.decs and instantly regret that you are not playing BUG. That color combination is the only one able to fight a fair fight in a metagame dominated by Counterbalance & Chalice.

Hell, some storm pilots even started to MD Decays!

as I'm one of the these people I feel I need to say:

A, I don't see CB or CotV as a problem (for Storm or for legacy), in fact I "like" these cards, CotV is alright as long as it stays where it belongs - in terrible inconsistent decks for people who like to gamble and go against the grain... a minor funpolice to spice things up... CB, I remember when CB was a game over, it's not that long ago, I was fine with back then why would I complain now?

B, MD AD isn't a reaction to CB or CotV, both are way beyond their peak (it seems to me) but because of Leovold or better said with Leovold the threshold where MD AD is a consideration is met for me as almost every deck has a potential "backbreaking" T2 play which makes the overall XP very random, especially since UBG colors can find and defend the Leovold, are widely popular and unpredictable on whether they run it or not

it's honestly insane you've waited this long to adjust to the current metagame.

there are different, less flashy, forms of adjustment in inner-deck ratios and card selection which certainly happened long ago, to MD answers wasn't (and very likely still isn't) worth it

C, I was about to express my opinion on netdecking and deckchoices but then noticed B/R thread isn't active for 2 weeks so I'll save the rant for later

Which is amusing because this game has the skill cap of picking your nose but I digress

then you're doing something wrong...

actually the skill cap of the game is slowly becoming the only reason I play it, I don't consider it much fun anymore but as long as it stays a challenge I tolerate myself this extravagance

[Nielsie]

First of all, no one wants to see counterbalance or Chalice banned

Well, lately I see this popping up a lot here...

Honestly, all what is requested is some non-BUG options to create diversity in battling Countertop/Chalice instead of sidestepping it with a few fringe deck options

Sure, I would love this to happen. But I don't know if it is that simple. You don't want to offer current BGx decks Decay 4-8 :/

[Megadeus]

Mostly because the BnR rant moved to this thread essentially. Just with less specific choices of cards and more broad in terms of strategies in general and how legacy has become dull to many.

[thefringthing]

Sure, I would love this to happen. But I don't know if it is that simple. You don't want to offer current BGx decks Decay 4-8 :/

God forbid they ever print a red card that does anything.

[Megadeus]

God forbid they ever print a red card that does anything.

The problem being you need it to be RR or the blue decks simply play it in their deck because everything is inevitably better when casting brainstorm alongside it. Of course, then you're playing a RR spell in legacy and that means it's really hard to fit brainstorm in your deck, so despite the powerlevel of the RR card, you're just better off cantripping.

[Lemnear]

The problem being you need it to be RR or the blue decks simply play it in their deck because everything is inevitably better when casting brainstorm alongside it. Of course, then you're playing a RR spell in legacy and that means it's really hard to fit brainstorm in your deck, so despite the powerlevel of the RR card, you're just better off cantripping.

We thought that about Decay as well at the beginning and suddenly people were splashing colors. We are long past the point were 2 non-U colors are REALLY restrictive as long as there is excuse to run the other colors.

[Crimhead]

...some players praise the "diversity"? What diversity? Because D&T and colorless aggro now have a bigger metagame share?

The format is diverse - you just have to look at entire decks rather than focusing on a small set of cards.

Do you think Eldrazi, Lands, and Aggro Loam are not very different decks because the all run CotV in the 75?
Do you think Elves, Pyro, Shardless, Loam, and Infect are basically the same because they all run AD or Grip?
Do you think Reanimator, D&T, Burn, and Miracles "don't really count" in terms of format diversity?

If you can't see the diversity, maybe the problem is not with the format.

Seriously, has this new meta emerged even a new deck supertypes (mind that Eldrazi simply is the successor of the MUD aggro variants) or just killed some?

What do you consider to be a "deck supertype"? I'm thinking:

• Aggro
• Tempo
• Midrange (anywhere from aggressove to grindy)
• Stompy
• Combo
• Control
• Prison

I don't think MTG has seen a new "supertype" since pretty much forever. If anything we get new hybrids - eg, I don’t think aggro/prison was a thing before D&T.

That said, the current meta boasts a fantastic spread of these play-styles! When was the last time
Legacy was this rich with varying play-styles?

Honestly, all what is requested is some non-BUG options to create diversity in battling Countertop/Chalice instead of sidestepping it with a few fringe deck options

So... D&T, Infect, and RB Reanimator are now fringe decks? Why? Please justify your claim that three out of six DTBs are now "fringe decks". I guess this is the age of "alternative facts", but this is so blatantly false I'm almost surprised that you even posted it.

[ESG]

What I think is the biggest problem is net-decking and a lack of coverage. It sounds ridiculous and unintuitive but because of a lack of coverage since we have lost the scg legacy opens, people just don't see interesting brews and possible new archetypes popping up on streams.

I already have one link to our local stream in this thread, but since I keep seeing this same sentiment repeated, I'm going to post it again:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/118607411

This week's matches:
Round 1: Bomberman vs. Jund
Round 2: Dark Bant vs. MUD
Round 2 (backup match): ANT vs. UWR Blade Landstill
Round 3: Enchantress vs. Deathblade
Interview with Enchantress player
Round 4: Mentor Miracles vs. Jund

You don't have to run the same 75 cards that so-and-so did at GP Louisville. It's your choice to do that or do something different. Play Legacy because it's fun and has a huge card pool. If you're feeling jaded, consider what you could do with newly printed cards, and spend some time in the New and Developmental Decks forum. Also, the Seattle scene isn't unique to brewing. If you explore TCDecks, you'll find lots of interesting ideas on display.