I'm not trying to have anything "both ways" though. The nomenclature and the "legitimacy" are not one thing. Sports might be considered by many people more "legitimate" but that is not an intrinsic quality, that is a cultural valuation. The "problem" is that no one really would take a game that as arbitrarily been renamed a sport "more seriously" because calling something doesn't make it so.
I am willing to speculate that no one, and almost certainly almost no one, would consider a game more legitimate simply because someone slapped a label that says "sport" on it. You either feel like games have intrinsic value, as such, or you don't. Some people find that sports, even traditionally defined, have no intrinsic value, as a matter of fact. Some one these people are the same ones who value games, as such. So, no, it isn't just an issue of nomenclature that gives us the valuation, it's our personal values.
So, marketing thinks it can put the cart before the horse and go on it's merry way, but it doesn't work like that. People who have a contempt for games do so, not because they aren't called sports, but because the intrinsic valuation of the constitute defining elements. They don't value sports because they are called sports. That is absurd. So, attempting to "rebrand" something as such is absurd as marketing deciding that chocolate cakes sell better than vanilla ones, so let's just call both chocolate and they'll be equal in the eyes of consumers, right? I mean, what is the flavor of chocolate anyway, but a mere sensation we can't define with objective certainly. So, here at Nonsese Cake Factory, we want you to know that all flavors take skill and effort to make and we don't want your intrinsic valuation to cloud you in thinking that one might have intrinsic properties the other doesn't.
It's also nonsensical to think that people like traditional sport solely for the fact that they require skill. Although could be a part of some people's enjoyment, another part of sport that appeals to people is the simplicity, prima facie. The world's most popular sport, football (AKA soccer for us more contemptible), is fantastically simple. Just kick this here ball into that there net and don't use your hands doing so. Out of that rises a much more interesting game (for most people, not us Yanks). And that is a key to it's success. The same reason why people decry so-and-so's "terrible" play, despite that fact that there is essentially a zero percent chance the arm-chair commentator could have been on the field in the first place, let alone been able to make the "right call" in the moment.
Why doesn't Magic have the same appeal? Because it is much less intuitive, much harder to conceptualize and with it's fantasy styling, seems "childish" to people. Again, you can rail against that, but it is what it is. And none of that is mitigated by simply calling something a sport. It goes the same for any other game that people attempt to "rebrand" as a sport. In fact, the very need to "reband" tells you all you really need to know about it's very nature. No one "branded" football as a sport, it just is. If Magic was a sport, it would be, there wouldn't be a need to rebrand it, any more than you'd rebrand flavors of cake.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
I own a fedora, and then idiots had to cavort and ruin it. Not that I was going to wear it often, but now there is no way to wear it ever.
Not to mention, Call of Duty 4? When I told our kids the last call of Duty I played was 2, they looked at me as if I told them I worked the Pyramids in Giza.
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
eSports is horribly overused anyway. Hasbro even called D&D an eSport, for fucks sake.
Obviously, the solution to the whole "Magic is not a sport" is motorcycles. Card games on motorcycles.
On a more serious note:
WotC dropped the MSRP
You can fully expect price hikes rather sooner or later. Hasbro needs to whore out MtG some more considering the rest of their core business is horribly failing ever since Toys"R"Us went belly up.
This is largely my point. If the criterion for sport gets lowered so far that we use it for any activity, of what use is the word?
Well, that would certainly be something...
Well, I am definitely not knowledgeable enough to say, so what are the overall effects of this in the long term? Was MSRP really holding the price?
"The Ancients teach us that if we can but last, we shall prevail."
—Kaysa, Elder Druid of the Juniper Order
Worst case is it will let them distribute direct to Amazon and Walmart for different a different price point than smaller local shops, pushing their margins even narrower.
MSRP is really only an American thing, so more likely their aim is it'll let them distribute better in Europe and stuff. But it's not like any of the limited edition products were sold at MSRP anyway.
It's not, there are lines between what words mean. Just because you like using the phrase 'professional sport' more than 'professional gaming' doesn't change the meaning of the words themselves.
Again, I used several very specific traits that encompass the words 'Athletic' and 'Sport'. Right from a dictionary.
Why is important? To who? I personally could care less This, frankly, sounds more like you projecting your insecurities onto others, as most here with real input haven't reduced it to 'running good gaming bad'
Again, I provided very specific examples of things that constitute athleticism. From a dictionary. Not that these things don't require skill, of course. But they are not athletic in nature.
It's not arbitrary...again, it's directly from the dictionary.
They have the same word in it. The phrase 'eSport' is an abuse anyway. To hark back to the same example, no one calls competitive poker an e-sport even though it's also a 'competitive game you can watch online'
I meant legitimacy in more of a financial sense. The enterprise as a whole seems to make money. Nothing like a monster like the NFL/MLB or the like, but it seems to support itself at least. I also don't think people look upon 'pro gamers' with derision, at least I don't get that impression. And no one says that professional gamers don't "dedicate themselves, train, etc, and provide entertainment". I mean, I'm just gonna point at South Korea in general and leave it at that.
this bit I wanted to touch on specifically, partially because the following is much more opinionated than the rest.
Frankly, I can't blame them. Professional gaming in general is boring as all fuck to a layman. Unless one is deeply invested/involved with most of these games, if you've never played them before they're borderline impossible to understand. Add to this the fact that games like League, Overwatch and friends change month-by-month? Insanity to someone involved with professional sports. Please note that I'm not much of a traditional sports strategist, but I don't think that strategies get invalidated as often as they do in competitive games due to the rules of the game changing. Football (hell, American and otherwise) likely has strategies that have been good for decades, and yet the game doesn't get stale.
I was just going to ask if my hobby's prehistoric: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9tv_-8sBkY (Super Street Fighter II Turbo, or ST for short)
There's probably a reason Counter-Strike stays popular. Simple enough to understand and teams have room for self-expression so game-overhauling patches are very rare.
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Nobody remembers Total Annihilation. Nothing more satisfying than the old "ARM VERMIN HAVE BEEN EXTERMINATED."
All Spells Primer under construction: https://docs.google.com/document/d/e...Tl7utWpLo0/pub
PM me if you want to contribute!
No idea, I think the better question is "Who here buys sealed product"? Outside of draft I don't.
On that topic, this set has been sweet for draft.
I love that image. What about those of us who's thought was "System Shock, Halo CE and Golden Eye"? Hell Alex Kid anyone? Duck Hunt. Wow I am starting to feel old.
Lands of Lore anyone?
Warcraft 1 or C&C and the one and only Kane!
RA1 DOS installer
Originally Posted by Lemnear
Good times!
My first real video game experiences were on CHoplifter, load runner and spy vs spy on Apple 2c. It's incredible to imagine that i had such a good time on those games which were graphically speaking horrible :)
But I can compare it to my first game of magic with a deck playing Sea Serpent, Basilisk and Sengir vampire, back in 1994.... Mostly crappy cards, but good times :)
Last edited by Tylert; 02-19-2019 at 08:41 AM.
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