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Thread: The current state of Magic

  1. #981
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    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    Is that a real fucking card?!?!?!?

    Ha. Hahahahahaha.

    Remember when a 2/2 one drop was so strong it could only be white and had to have the Legendary tag on it as a drawback? Ah, fun times.

    Still way worse than Delver.

    Which is also Blue.

    Because of course.
    Real card is real.
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    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

  2. #982

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    OMG.

    Saffron Olive has an article up on Arena at mtggoldfish today.

    The comments are fucking priceless. Literally the only people in the comments saying the economy is ok and they can build what they want are the ones saying they spent $500+ on gems.

    BAAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAAHAHA.

    Like, I mean, ffs, make the game generous, get people in, sell Judge Promo art and full art cards and shit to make your $$ back. This should be the most brain dead easy decision in the world, and they're going to fuck it up.

    That's amazing.
    It helps if you provide people with a link to the article:
    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles...more-questions

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    Is that a real fucking card?!?!?!?

    Ha. Hahahahahaha.

    Remember when a 2/2 one drop was so strong it could only be white and had to have the Legendary tag on it as a drawback? Ah, fun times.

    Still way worse than Delver.

    Which is also Blue.

    Because of course.
    Not sure what the big deal is. Red has a strictly better version of it in Inventor's Apprentice.

  3. #983

    Re: The current state of Magic

    I wonder who this game is directed at. Wouldn't limited players rather play on mtgo where they can sell the cards they draft for tickets (or trade them for cards they need in constructed formats), while having access to cube drafts and other formats? Without trading or secondary a secondary market, constructed players will never play this over mtgo. It is basically a mtg game for people who dont play mtg (ie it is directed at Hearthstone players that want something more complex).

  4. #984

    Re: The current state of Magic

    No, it's directed at shareholders wondering why Hearthstone is making more money online after 3 years than MTG is after 20+.

  5. #985
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    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    No, it's directed at shareholders wondering why Hearthstone is making more money online after 3 years than MTG is after 20+.
    Hey now, #notallshareholders

    I remember the best use of Duel of the Planewalkers games were these magic "puzzles" they employed as a teaching tool to develop the critical thinking and ass-around order you need to be good that the game. You;d load up a board state and typically the requirement would be to win that turn, sometimes it would be to not die that turn.

    I recall one when you had 4 mana, 3 creatures, one holding a Jitte with 4 counter on it. The opponent had two blockers and was at low life. Their toughness was such you couldn't kill them and get enough power through. The solution was to pump the creature, move the Jitte, pump that one, move it again and pump, sending three guys and the one that gets through would be lethal.

    It was those kind of Chess/Go problems that made it something worth all the garbage that was the rest of the game. If they could do anything, it would be more of that.
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    Gross, other formats. I puked in my mouth a little.

  6. #986
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    Re: The current state of Magic

    I use MTG Arena everyday now and oh boy this soft is sweet.
    The real problem is the economy as Safron olive says. And while i have a deck that fits me right now i'm really wondering if i'll be able to redo it when they'll wipe the accounts for the open beta....

  7. #987

    Re: The current state of Magic

    I'm enjoying arena but I also bought one of the big packs to get started. I can imagine it being super annoying as a f2p person but I wasn't ever gonna go that route anyways since grinding is for people with more time than money.

    I hate playing paper magic these days (had enough of playing with crusty fucks in dingy little shops), hate mtgo, and don't have that much time anyways so getting a few casual-ish games in on arena is just about perfect for me. The format isn't ideal but dominaria is really awesome so I'm having a refreshing amount of fun with it considering how burnt out on legacy and magic I've been in general.

  8. #988

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Seth View Post
    It helps if you provide people with a link to the article:
    https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles...more-questions

    Not sure what the big deal is. Red has a strictly better version of it in Inventor's Apprentice.
    Sure, I mean, what color DOESN'T have a one-drop 2/2 or better dependent on artifacts? Black and Green, I guess. White has at least 2. Still, if any color is supposed to have weaker creatures, it is blue, and giving blue a 1cc 2/2 like Delver just seems really bonkers for what the color is supposed to be about.

  9. #989
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    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by MaximumC View Post
    Sure, I mean, what color DOESN'T have a one-drop 2/2 or better dependent on artifacts? Black and Green, I guess. White has at least 2. Still, if any color is supposed to have weaker creatures, it is blue, and giving blue a 1cc 2/2 like Delver just seems really bonkers for what the color is supposed to be about.
    It would be ok if it had a drawback (and the flip trigger is pathetically easy to build around in every format.) If it flipped back again if someone played 2 spells, like the werewolves, it would have been much more fair and much less playable. Not that I'm complaining, I think delver is fine for the format, just agreeing that it doesn't really fit the traditional blue mold.
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  10. #990
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    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Safety View Post
    It would be ok if it had a drawback (and the flip trigger is pathetically easy to build around in every format.) If it flipped back again if someone played 2 spells, like the werewolves, it would have been much more fair and much less playable. Not that I'm complaining, I think delver is fine for the format, just agreeing that it doesn't really fit the traditional blue mold.
    I am more offended by a 3/1 - Protection from everything your opponent has, which isn't white (as it should) but blue. Maybe just me
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  11. #991

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Yeah, I definitely think the biggest thing contributing to the problems with the format in general, and the "cantrip shell" in particular are that Black has the best mana dork and Blue has the best creatures.

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    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    Yeah, I definitely think the biggest thing contributing to the problems with the format in general, and the "cantrip shell" in particular are that Black has the best mana dork and Blue has the best creatures.
    I was one of the old hags nagging for years that everyone is just playing blue shell + delver and that the main differences are only the colors they choose between RUG, BUG, UWR or UR, which seems silly now that DRS literally eliminated exactly that variance and turned everything BUGx.

    Having a permanent 5c manaacceleration, yardhate and cursed scroll available off your Underground Sea, trivialized cardchoices and nonbasic hate
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
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  13. #993
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    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    I was one of the old hags nagging for years that everyone is just playing blue shell + delver and that the main differences are only the colors they choose between RUG, BUG, UWR or UR, which seems silly now that DRS literally eliminated exactly that variance and turned everything BUGx.

    Having a permanent 5c manaacceleration, yardhate and cursed scroll available off your Underground Sea, trivialized cardchoices and nonbasic hate
    Yeah, I have to chime in on this one. One of the large advantages people who play Legacy as their main format had was deck recognition. I used to be able to see your turn one Fetch, what land you got, and what spell you played, and know what your were on at least 75% of the time. And with the slow evolution of cards into the format, and changes in subsequent lists, I'd usually know at least 75% of your list once deducing what you were playing. Now, X Fetch into Sea into Deathrite means I can eliminate maybe 40% of the meta. Maybe.

    EDIT: A prime example of in-game actions being warped by the new meta; When RUG was a huge player, obviously before Deathrite, a common play, even blind, was T1 Fetch a land, go. Even without Basics. Because it was so much worse getting Stifled with no T1 play, than Wasted. When's the last time anyone saw anyone do that?
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  14. #994
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    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Parcher View Post
    When RUG was a huge player, obviously before Deathrite, a common play, even blind, was T1 Fetch a land, go. Even without Basics. Because it was so much worse getting Stifled with no T1 play, than Wasted. When's the last time anyone saw anyone do that?
    Fetching a Dual without any Ponder/DRS/Delver/Mongoose/etc played before passing? Prolly 2007? Could be wrong though. Too long ago regardless.

    I agree on the deck identification. There was a time when you could identify opposing decks based on the fetches, lands fetched and first spell cast, which was temendously helpful as a combo player. These days, every tempo and midrange deck looks the same and I cant even predict, if they play stifles or Hymns as their disruption or how the fuck their endgame might looks. Could be anything from Jace to Leovold to Gurmag.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

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  15. #995

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemnear View Post
    I cant even predict, if they play stifles or Hymns as their disruption or how the fuck their endgame might looks. Could be anything from Jace to Leovold to Gurmag.
    Isn't this a positive thing?
    I'd rather play a game where you actually gain some win% by making smart picks for what cards to play rather than just "I'm playing X deck, I guess my whole 75 is locked in" (and I say this as a RUG player)

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    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    Isn't this a positive thing?
    I'd rather play a game where you actually gain some win% by making smart picks for what cards to play rather than just "I'm playing X deck, I guess my whole 75 is locked in" (and I say this as a RUG player)
    That's not what I meant. I wanted to refer that we are at the point of tempo, midrange and control running the same shell with like 65% of the decks being identical. There was a time these strategies differed drastically in terms of card selection and colors.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Echelon View Post
    Lemnear sounds harsh at times, but he means well. Or to destroy, but that's when he starts rapping.

    Architect by day, rapstar by night. He's pretty much the German Hannah Montana. Sometimes he even comes in like a wrecking ball.

  17. #997

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Ban DRS, Gurmag, and the Blue creatures (leovold, TNN, Delver). That will force decks to re-diversify without touching fetches, duals, or the blue cantrip shell wotc loves so much.

  18. #998

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by MaximumC View Post
    Sure, I mean, what color DOESN'T have a one-drop 2/2 or better dependent on artifacts? Black and Green, I guess. White has at least 2. Still, if any color is supposed to have weaker creatures, it is blue, and giving blue a 1cc 2/2 like Delver just seems really bonkers for what the color is supposed to be about.
    Blue has had Phantasmal Bear for years.

    I just don't see why a one-drop 2/2 is particularly shocking at this point. Every color has those and they've had them for a while.

  19. #999
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    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by morgan_coke View Post
    Ban DRS, Gurmag, and the Blue creatures (leovold, TNN, Delver). That will force decks to re-diversify without touching fetches, duals, or the blue cantrip shell wotc loves so much.
    I like idea of banning: DRS, Leovold, TNN, Delver and Griselbrand at once.

    DRS - omnipresent in each blue cartel, which changed to Ub/x cartel.

    Leovold - mistake in design too many good abilities - and no real cost effective and CA answer to it (cheapest mass removal is for 3 mana + drawback - like paying life) each other gives -1 CA.

    TNN - similar to Leovold, mistake in design - actually it's just bad design, which is out of color-wheel, out of interactive play - it required special rulling in comp rules - just awful.

    Delver - 3/2 flying for U - no drawbacks, that's how you creating one of dominating archetype since 2011 until today.

    Griselbrand is similar "mistake" like DRS, but in Combo category - bring in fattie - you don't think about which fatty is ok vs proper situation, you bring Grisel every time, since it's like old Skull (Necropotence or later Yawg Bergain - both banned) drawing more cards is enough to win, add to it 7/7 body flying and lifelink.. idiotic, and can't be answered symetrical you always draw 7 cards, or will have bigger body. S&T and Reanimator dropped diversity bacause of it.


    Gurmag is like Tombstalker, one mana cheaper but without reach - it's ok in power level and diversity, you can also use 4/5 legendary version with option.

    P.S Missed last "mistake" in design - Omniscience - players like interesting cards which interact with each other not cards which has on their text box - you win the game. It's not oppressing it's just bad card design.

    Edit to
    Quote Originally Posted by thecrav
    We a B&R thread now, boyz
    Little true but it's very connected - current state of Magic makes format less diversity since R&D form WotC produce bad designed cards in last few years and do nothing with it. That's why Banned & Restricted list exist - but WotC refuse to take any action to correct mistakes in development. It's scary how long took correct mistake with Terminus and how they correct it - SDT ban, similar like with Vengevines and Survival, the more engines they ban, instead issues, then less diversity and more paper (Grixis Delver) / rock (Czech Pile) / scissors(Chalice based decks) / ok let be Spock also (D&T) will be format instead of multi-dimensional matrix.
    Last edited by Fatal; 05-23-2018 at 04:57 PM.

  20. #1000

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Fatal View Post
    I like idea of banning: DRS, Leovold, TNN, Delver and Griselbrand at once.

    DRS - omnipresent in each blue cartel, which changed to Ub/x cartel.

    Leovold - mistake in design too many good abilities - and no real cost effective and CA answer to it (cheapest mass removal is for 3 mana + drawback - like paying life) each other gives -1 CA.

    TNN - similar to Leovold, mistake in design - actually it's just bad design, which is out of color-wheel, out of interactive play - it required special rulling in comp rules - just awful.

    Delver - 3/2 flying for U - no drawbacks, that's how you creating one of dominating archetype since 2011 until today.

    Griselbrand is similar "mistake" like DRS, but in Combo category - bring in fattie - you don't think about which fatty is ok vs proper situation, you bring Grisel every time, since it's like old Skull (Necropotence or later Yawg Bergain - both banned) drawing more cards is enough to win, add to it 7/7 body flying and lifelink.. idiotic, and can't be answered symetrical you always draw 7 cards, or will have bigger body. S&T and Reanimator dropped diversity bacause of it.


    Gurmag is like Tombstalker, one mana cheaper but without reach - it's ok in power level and diversity, you can also use 4/5 legendary version with option.

    P.S Missed last "mistake" in design - Omniscience - players like interesting cards which interact with each other not cards which has on their text box - you win the game. It's not oppressing it's just bad card design.

    Edit to


    Little true but it's very connected - current state of Magic makes format less diversity since R&D form WotC produce bad designed cards in last few years and do nothing with it. That's why Banned & Restricted list exist - but WotC refuse to take any action to correct mistakes in development. It's scary how long took correct mistake with Terminus and how they correct it - SDT ban, similar like with Vengevines and Survival, the more engines they ban, instead issues, then less diversity and more paper (Grixis Delver) / rock (Czech Pile) / scissors(Chalice based decks) / ok let be Spock also (D&T) will be format instead of multi-dimensional matrix.

    You know what, I actually think you got some very good points here.

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